Register
It is currently Wed Apr 23, 2014 6:13 am

Subpixel Reconstruction AntiAliasing

View active topics

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 84 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5 ... 9  Next
Author Message
#11) 
 PostPosted: Wed Mar 02, 2011 12:47 am   
User avatar

Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 11:19 am
Posts: 6835
nvidia's own paper bears me out anyway.

Take a look at figure 8 from the paper and a specific subsection of it.

SRAA does nothing at all over no antialiasing to remove jaggies from the scene. The stairs are jagged as hell, as are the crates, the window sills and the lip of the cavity. The algorithm fails miserably at what it is supposed to achieve.

nvidia would be better served wasting less time on garbage like this and more time on refining and improving the performance of existing, proven to work antialiasing methods such as MSAA and SSAA.

Image

Image

_________________
This is such total Horse-S**t!

"At NVIDIA we know that all shredders are green." --Jensen Huang
Adam knew he should have bought a PC, but Eve fell for the marketing hype. >:)
Having a lot of people buy your product doesn't do you much good if they subsequently decide they don't like it. There's a reason snake oil salesmen moved from town to town every few days. ;)


Top
 Profile  
#12) 
 PostPosted: Thu Mar 03, 2011 2:33 pm   
User avatar

Joined: Sat Sep 18, 2010 3:18 pm
Posts: 489
AMD's is adhering strictly to Intel's MLAA whitepaper in terms of MLAA, so seems that it still a bit better than nVidia's SRAA.

_________________
Q9650@ 3.82GHz w/ CCT Freezer 120 - Gigabyte HD 6970 2GB - PNY GeForce GT240 PhysX PPU - G.Skill 8GB PC8500 @ 1,066MHz - Asus P5Q PRO w/ Northbridge tweaks - OCZ GameXstream 700W - Antec 900 - X-Fi XtremeMusic - Windows 7 64-Bits

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wreckage:
It's not an answer either, as the card is not out yet, so your claims of performance are meaningless. The 4870 will be slower than a 8600GT.


http://www.megic.1go.dk/dontclickeng.htm


Top
 Profile  
#13) 
 PostPosted: Thu Mar 03, 2011 7:34 pm   
User avatar

Joined: Fri Sep 05, 2008 3:43 am
Posts: 609
Location: D:\Games
evolucion8 wrote:
AMD's is adhering strictly to Intel's MLAA whitepaper in terms of MLAA, so seems that it still a bit better than nVidia's SRAA.

MLAA will never be as good as SRAA because it doesn’t have sub-pixel data. Of course SRAA probably won’t be as good as “real” AA either, but we’ll just have to wait and see.

_________________
i7 870 | GTX480 | 4 GB DDR3-1333 | Gigabyte P55-UD3 | 1 TB Caviar Black | X-Fi XtremeMusic | 750 W Toughpower | Antec 902 | 30" HP LP3065


Top
 Profile  
#14) 
 PostPosted: Thu Mar 03, 2011 11:10 pm   
User avatar

Joined: Sat Sep 18, 2010 3:18 pm
Posts: 489
By my own experience using MLAA in games like Dead Space 2 and Borderlands, it looks better than the pix posted above my previous post, probably the results may change during gaming when SRAA is used, but for now, I see lots of jaggies and blurriness in that pix.

_________________
Q9650@ 3.82GHz w/ CCT Freezer 120 - Gigabyte HD 6970 2GB - PNY GeForce GT240 PhysX PPU - G.Skill 8GB PC8500 @ 1,066MHz - Asus P5Q PRO w/ Northbridge tweaks - OCZ GameXstream 700W - Antec 900 - X-Fi XtremeMusic - Windows 7 64-Bits

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wreckage:
It's not an answer either, as the card is not out yet, so your claims of performance are meaningless. The 4870 will be slower than a 8600GT.


http://www.megic.1go.dk/dontclickeng.htm


Top
 Profile  
#15) 
 PostPosted: Mon Mar 28, 2011 1:09 pm   

Joined: Wed Jan 12, 2011 1:56 pm
Posts: 872
This PR had a bit of data on maybe reconstruction aliasing:

Quote:
We've been collaborating closely with NVIDIA in continuously improving the quality of the Dreamworld Render engine, resulting in fully new effects such as shader-based anti-aliasing techniques now being implemented in Age of Conan.


http://www.marketwire.com/press-release ... 418231.htm


Top
 Profile  
#16) 
 PostPosted: Mon Mar 28, 2011 5:16 pm   
User avatar

Joined: Mon Nov 22, 2010 5:22 am
Posts: 3188
drofnatsg that scene was extremely jagged from the go. imagine any game you play without AA, do they ever look that jagged?


drofnatsg wrote:
I'll have a read, but, frankly I'd almost rather this hadn't been developed. It is difficult enough to get some developers to support proper AA and this may make it almost impossible, not to mention nvidia may use this themselves instead of patching proper AA into games that lack it.




I think your also missing the point. Most console ports arent interested in AA. Its not like Nvidia should have to pay for AA out of their pockets on every major port to PC. Look at what their batman AA investment got them. Most ppl forget that Nvidia payed out of pocket to have it implemented when no one else wanted to. It caused all kindsa uproar. Most ppl didnt care, they didnt care if the Nvidia payed for it or not. They seen it as nvidia=evil because they block AA on AMD hardware. Its past but look at the truth, developers are not concerned with AA on PC ports and this is an attempt to bring AA to Nvidia users when the developers dont. Real AA is nice, but this is a solution for the reality that developers arent taking AA serious anymore. Nvidia cant go to each developer and each game and pay to have AA implemented.

This cannot be a bad thing, its a great solution for a sad probablem. I think your missing the important facts. No matter how much you think AA should be there or that developers are lazy, at the end of the day we need some AA on PC games. This is a solution, its not the problem


Top
 Profile  
#17) 
 PostPosted: Mon Mar 28, 2011 9:57 pm   
User avatar

Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 11:19 am
Posts: 6835
Ocre wrote:
drofnatsg that scene was extremely jagged from the go. imagine any game you play without AA, do they ever look that jagged?

Of course it was jagged from the get go without AA. With AA it would not be, and the entire point is that SRAA did a poor job of removing the jaggies (the main thing AA is meant to do, and does very well). You notice that nvidia deliberately didn't include a portion of that scene with proper AA applied to it, because it would have made my point even clearer than it already is and shown up the poor quality that SRAA achieves.

Ocre wrote:
I think your also missing the point. Most console ports arent interested in AA. Its not like Nvidia should have to pay for AA out of their pockets on every major port to PC. Look at what their batman AA investment got them. Most ppl forget that Nvidia payed out of pocket to have it implemented when no one else wanted to. It caused all kindsa uproar. Most ppl didnt care, they didnt care if the Nvidia payed for it or not. They seen it as nvidia=evil because they block AA on AMD hardware.

No, not at all -- only the fanATIcs think that way. nvidia owners are very glad that nvidia went to the trouble of ensuring they could enjoy AA in-game and great PhysX effects when they otherwise would have received neither.

I think SRAA has some possible usefulness in preventing shader shimmer at a cheaper cost than SSAA, but for edge AA it is hopeless.

_________________
This is such total Horse-S**t!

"At NVIDIA we know that all shredders are green." --Jensen Huang
Adam knew he should have bought a PC, but Eve fell for the marketing hype. >:)
Having a lot of people buy your product doesn't do you much good if they subsequently decide they don't like it. There's a reason snake oil salesmen moved from town to town every few days. ;)


Top
 Profile  
#18) 
 PostPosted: Tue Mar 29, 2011 1:47 am   
User avatar

Joined: Sat Sep 18, 2010 3:18 pm
Posts: 489
Ocre wrote:
drofnatsg that scene was extremely jagged from the go. imagine any game you play without AA, do they ever look that jagged?


drofnatsg wrote:
I'll have a read, but, frankly I'd almost rather this hadn't been developed. It is difficult enough to get some developers to support proper AA and this may make it almost impossible, not to mention nvidia may use this themselves instead of patching proper AA into games that lack it.




I think your also missing the point. Most console ports arent interested in AA. Its not like Nvidia should have to pay for AA out of their pockets on every major port to PC. Look at what their batman AA investment got them. Most ppl forget that Nvidia payed out of pocket to have it implemented when no one else wanted to. It caused all kindsa uproar. Most ppl didnt care, they didnt care if the Nvidia payed for it or not. They seen it as nvidia=evil because they block AA on AMD hardware. Its past but look at the truth, developers are not concerned with AA on PC ports and this is an attempt to bring AA to Nvidia users when the developers dont. Real AA is nice, but this is a solution for the reality that developers arent taking AA serious anymore. Nvidia cant go to each developer and each game and pay to have AA implemented.

This cannot be a bad thing, its a great solution for a sad probablem. I think your missing the important facts. No matter how much you think AA should be there or that developers are lazy, at the end of the day we need some AA on PC games. This is a solution, its not the problem


That's why they released Batman AA GOTY later that comes with direct control panel Anti Aliasing support for AMD hardware, as denying it would had cost them lots of money, specially when AMD owns the DX11 market.

_________________
Q9650@ 3.82GHz w/ CCT Freezer 120 - Gigabyte HD 6970 2GB - PNY GeForce GT240 PhysX PPU - G.Skill 8GB PC8500 @ 1,066MHz - Asus P5Q PRO w/ Northbridge tweaks - OCZ GameXstream 700W - Antec 900 - X-Fi XtremeMusic - Windows 7 64-Bits

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wreckage:
It's not an answer either, as the card is not out yet, so your claims of performance are meaningless. The 4870 will be slower than a 8600GT.


http://www.megic.1go.dk/dontclickeng.htm


Top
 Profile  
#19) 
 PostPosted: Tue Mar 29, 2011 12:02 pm   
User avatar

Joined: Mon May 10, 2010 3:46 pm
Posts: 5317
Location: Earth
Ocre wrote:
drofnatsg that scene was extremely jagged from the go. imagine any game you play without AA, do they ever look that jagged?


drofnatsg wrote:
I'll have a read, but, frankly I'd almost rather this hadn't been developed. It is difficult enough to get some developers to support proper AA and this may make it almost impossible, not to mention nvidia may use this themselves instead of patching proper AA into games that lack it.




I think your also missing the point. Most console ports arent interested in AA. Its not like Nvidia should have to pay for AA out of their pockets on every major port to PC. Look at what their batman AA investment got them. Most ppl forget that Nvidia payed out of pocket to have it implemented when no one else wanted to. It caused all kindsa uproar. Most ppl didnt care, they didnt care if the Nvidia payed for it or not. They seen it as nvidia=evil because they block AA on AMD hardware. Its past but look at the truth, developers are not concerned with AA on PC ports and this is an attempt to bring AA to Nvidia users when the developers dont. Real AA is nice, but this is a solution for the reality that developers arent taking AA serious anymore. Nvidia cant go to each developer and each game and pay to have AA implemented.

This cannot be a bad thing, its a great solution for a sad probablem. I think your missing the important facts. No matter how much you think AA should be there or that developers are lazy, at the end of the day we need some AA on PC games. This is a solution, its not the problem


I think a lot of it has to do with both Unreal Engine 3 games and DX10. DX10.1 and DX11 pretty much required that all games implement proper support for AA, right? I think that as we move forward, "reference quality" 4-16x AF and at least 4x MSAA will be a standard for ALL games once the next-gen consoles come out.

I'm finally starting to play some more games right now, having recently gotten Dirt 2! It's great with 16x CSAA on my GTX 460 1GB, eating just under 900MB of RAM. 8xAA at 1920x1200 maxes out the VRAM usage, but I don't really see stuttering at all except that the frame rates are cut down by about 10% compared to 4x AA. Transparency AA doesn't seem to make a difference at all, although it incurs about 5% hit on frame rates. :scratch: BTW, many people were complaining about microstuttering in Dirt 2 with their 5970's.. I wonder if it's no longer an issue with 6990's?

_________________
Which one do your intentions belong to: Heaven, or Hell?
If you DIE tonight, do you partake in good days, good days, good days, good days, good days, good life in Heaven, forever and ever?

To be forgiven by Jesus, He rose us from the sinful dead with bonding love.

______

Dear GOD, My GOD, I Will Live With YOU In YOUR BONDING LOVE and YOUR Heavenly Faith And Love Forever And Forever, Amen.


Top
 Profile  
#20) 
 PostPosted: Tue Mar 29, 2011 1:56 pm   

Joined: Wed Jan 12, 2011 1:56 pm
Posts: 872
Here is a bit more data on SRAA and FXAA, a poster named, fivefeet8 kindly shared:

http://timothylottes.blogspot.com/2011/ ... -fxaa.html

http://publications.dice.se/attachments ... Public.pdf


Top
 Profile  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 84 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5 ... 9  Next

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
cron


Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group
Style originally created by Volize © 2003 • Redesigned SkyLine by MartectX © 2008 - 2009