1 billion mobile GPUs for in 2012; Intel is not leader

grstanford · **Joined:** Sat Apr 24, 2010 11:19 am **Posts:** 5174

I've made my point multiple times in this thread, either you are too stupid to get it (doubtful) or you are deliberately not getting it.

apoppin · Posted: Sun Jul 08, 2012 12:36 am

You point makes no sense to me. There is no logic i can follow. i am asking for you to explain the huge gaps in your logical progression from Larrabee to CPU graphics.

There is too much in your story that does not compute. About Larrabee being a "ploy". About Larrabee somehow becoming CPU graphics when we know Intel got that know-how from Nvidia.

And what does Intel's hiring of graphics engineers have to do with proving your point? They need graphics engineers for CPU graphics; that much is obvious. They also need HPC engineers. And CPU engineers.

grstanford · **Joined:** Sat Apr 24, 2010 11:19 am **Posts:** 5174

The software team intel assembled for Larrabee now works on igpu's instead. What is there to get?! And no, I don't mean that intel's igpu's run x86 software either.

apoppin · Posted: Sun Jul 08, 2012 12:41 am

grstanford wrote:

The software team intel assembled for Larrabee now works on igpu's instead. What is there to get?! And no, I don't mean that intel's igpu's run x86 software either.

How do you KNOW this?
:scratch:

It is just as likely that the SW team that Intel assembled for Larrabee now works on HPC instead. The engineers that Intel hired to work on graphics still work on CPU graphics.
:think:

grstanford · **Joined:** Sat Apr 24, 2010 11:19 am **Posts:** 5174

Most of them were/are graphics specialists.

apoppin · Posted: Sun Jul 08, 2012 1:03 am

So you have no answer ... just speculation and a lot of conjecture

Ocre · **Joined:** Mon Nov 22, 2010 5:22 am **Posts:** 2234

licensing nvidia technology and implementing it into their cpus is pretty worthless without drivers to make use of it. Intel needs to have drivers for the igp, there is nothing really unusual about this in any way. going back to this post

grstanford wrote:

Graphics hardware, is only a tiny part of what it takes to be successful in the graphics market. More important is the driver team and dev relations team.

Yes, Larrabee was developed, but impractical. You won't see it in the graphics marketplace anytime soon, if ever. Maybe by 2018 or so Larrabee will finally make enough sense.

Then you have to consider the graphics market itself. It's worth approx 1 billion per year to nvidia (the graphics market leader). Intel makes (at least) 1 billion per week. Not to mention cards like Larrabee won't only get sold to gamers and highend gamers at that whereas IGP is in every intel cpu.

intel graphics has always been the most popular. Before the license deal Intel had great relationships with developers. they would spent tons of resources buttering up to developers trying to have them use intel graphics and make it work for their games. The problem was that these same developers couldnt not make use of the intel graphics back then at all. They would bluntly say that these graphics were broken and they couldnt possibly use them to make great looking games. It wasnt by lack of money or effort. This was one of the things leading up to intel buying nvidia tech.

The trends were clearly showing graphics and GPUs gaining importance in the PC. Intel was well aware of this and that is why larrabee was dreamed up in the first place. With GPUs and graphics gaining traction and their competitor owning ATI the pressure was on for intel. Larrabee was a serious effort but after the project was abandoned for a graphics chip, the need for intel to have better graphics was still very strong. This led to the nvidia deal which led to them needing drivers to make use of it.

while the graphics market may not be the most profitable in the pc business it doesnt mean its not important. Intel obviously thinks so or they wouldnt had bought technology or they wouldnt improve on what the once had. We can all expect even more out of intel's igp with each future generation. The technology they bought gives them tools to continue to improve their graphics with. I imaging that soon even nvidia will be impressed with how far intel can take the technology they licensed. Intel has world class engineers and they have great tools to work with. Its only a good thing for consumers each leap that the igp takes. For now the relationship benefits Nvidia greatly but who knows what the future will bring. If i had to guess, i would say nvidia is wise and made great choices. So far everything is looking really up for them. So for now it is a win win for both intel and nvidia. They can do much more working together than against each other. that seems pretty clear to me.

grstanford · **Joined:** Sat Apr 24, 2010 11:19 am **Posts:** 5174

Quote:

intel graphics has always been the most popular.

Intel graphics has always been the most likely graphics to be found inside a consumer PC if the consumer themselves did not specify what the graphics should be.

Quote:

they would spent tons of resources buttering up to developers trying to have them use intel graphics and make it work for their games. The problem was that these same developers couldnt not make use of the intel graphics back then at all.

No argument there. that is why their name was MUD for graphics.

Quote:

This was one of the things leading up to intel buying nvidia tech.

For integrated purposes, certainly.

Quote:

The trends were clearly showing graphics and GPUs gaining importance in the PC. Intel was well aware of this and that is why larrabee was dreamed up in the first place.

Yes, but, only in some parts of intel. They have been down this road before with the i740. Intel overall prefers IGP's to standalone cards.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_i740

Quote:

This led to the nvidia deal which led to them needing drivers to make use of it.

no they needed the nvidia licensing deal Larrabee or not for IGP, and any tech needs drivers or else it is little more than an expensive and ineffective paper weight.

Quote:

while the graphics market may not be the most profitable in the pc business it doesnt mean its not important.

I totally agree, but, intel would rather integrate their graphics and sell them to everyone than build a complex card that relatively few will purchase. Especially when the current market leader can only extract around 1 Billion per year from such a market.

As for the licensing deal itself, I suspect it only purchased the right to implement a given technology, I rather doubt nvidia said here's the blueprint of a circuit that you can plug into your chip. So intel still has to make the tech work themselves, and looking at their shader units, vastly improved as they are for example they are still vastly different from anything you will find in other GPU's.

apoppin · Posted: Mon Jul 09, 2012 4:18 pm

Peddie always has some great analysis. This one is on the volatility of the Smartphone market
http://gfxspeak.com/2012/07/06/shaking- ... -shakeout/

Quote:

In 2007, Nokia was the mobile phone industry leader, followed by Motorola, and RIM ruled the enterprise—too big to fail. Right?

In January of that year we reported that when Apple introduced the iPhone, it was treading on turf that Microsoft has long planned to dominate itself. At the time, Steve Ballmer scoffed at Apple’s dreams of selling a puny 10 million iPhones over the next year. He claimed Microsoft was gaining ground in the mobile phone industry and Windows Mobile sells in hundreds of millions of phones. Now Microsoft would be delighted if it could be in 10 million phones.

By mid-year HTC, long a phone ODM, burst out with their Touch phone and started a meteoric climb, which of course convinced all the pontificators and most (most) analysts that HTC would take over the market and be number one in two to three years. Ah-huh.

In August, Ed Zander, who was CEO at HP at the time, said the term “mobile” is evolving to mean mobile phone and said they (mobile phones) will replace PCs. Not quite, but you can still hear some dunderheads on Wall Street parroting that silly sentiment.
...
by the end of ’08, Motorola Handset Division announced a 51% decrease in sales year-on-year, a layoff of an additional 4,000 jobs, and freezing salaries in 2009. Motorola lost its lead in technology innovation, design, and style to Apple and other new players. Market leader Nokia had a harsh 2008, with its sales dropping about 19% and a 69% dip in net profit, while Apple crossed the $10 billion mark in Q4 and sold 13.7 million phones that year, 17 million total. Microsoft was not to be found.

In ’09, the mobile smart phone market had been Microsoft’s to lose, and they seemed determined to do so. In Barcelona, the company served notice that there were going to be some changes made. Steve Ballmer came and personally launched the new Windows Mobile 6.5. In addition, Microsoft introduced My Phone.

In the third quarter of 2009, Samsung sold 60.2 million mobile phones, a 16% increase. Samsung said they expected to see the company reach 20% market share in the fourth quarter.

Today Samsung Electronics’ Galaxy S2, which served as its flagship smartphone until the release of Galaxy S3, is about to cross over the 30-million mark in total sales worldwide. The head of Samsung Electronics handset division said last week that the Galaxy S3 will become the fastest 10-million seller in the company’s history, expecting that it will see better results in the second quarter despite a worsening business environment.

So it’s Apple and Samsung, and then everybody else. The shakeout is coming, but be careful where you place your bets—this is an incredibly volatile and perfidious market.

Ocre · **Joined:** Mon Nov 22, 2010 5:22 am **Posts:** 2234

yup, but then intel enters the market and every other arm driven phone spontaneously combusted. All the other ARM manufactures just give up making great cpus and set their buildings on fire just cause intel tells them x86 is the only instruction set for any type computing, period. battery life is no longer important and having your phone get charged every 30mins is just normal. This is not a problem anymore because intel invites wireless 120v outlets to keep their phones plugged everywhere you go. People now go everywhere with their phones, chargers, and wireless 120v power-supply strapped around their back like a ghostbusters backpack. in Xeon Phi swallows tegra markets whole. intel tells nvidia to go under a rock and die, and so they do as their told. then because there is no more arm cpus, AMD is allowed to make x86 phones but intel only allows them their usual 15% crumbs. Graphics is effected in the world intel has planned for us. Intel in the near future announces graphics are finally good enough and all around the world the voice is heard out of the sky. Graphics will forever stay at ivy bridge levels from now till the end of time. No one ever buys anything more powerful. The next gen consoles all become ivy cores. The mighty x86 is unstoppable. Soon the most popular children's cereal will be x86-O's. In preschool kids learn x86 code before the alphabet. Intel announces x86 is the the divine code from god. Churches pop up all over when a new algorithm is found that can convert scriptures to x86 programs. These programs really dont do much but still have enough mystical power to have scientists dedicate their life to the study of such phenomenon. Soon all other science ceases to exist. nothing is more important than worshiping or studying the mighty X86. Finally religion and science are combined into one. Intel says the world is a better place, so it must be. Mankind never progressed from intel forward. It was as if some higher power (intel) gain control of the population and hit the giant massive brakes. As other populations in distant galaxies advanced to see the universe, Earths went nowhere. They would fly by earth and point to laugh at creatures that never progressed, they dubbed it planet X......X86. Eventually the sun would swell and start consuming the x86-lings. While they searched for a program in the scriptures that could save them, sadly there would not be one. In the last hours Intel smiled and looked death in the eye to say, "you can kill us all, but you will never kill x86. the mighty x86 is more powerful than death ever was". But it was not. x86 died with intel. And they took the whole planet with them...........

1 billion mobile GPUs for in 2012; Intel is not leader

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