TweakTown vs. Nvidia - TT declares War!

apoppin · Posted: Sat Aug 18, 2012 11:02 am

http://www.tweaktown.com/articles/4892/ ... index.html

Posted yesterday.

i pretty sure i don't agree with TT as they have a new and more arrogant attitude - they very thing they condemn is what they exhibit. Their issues DO parallel ABT's with AMD, but i hope we are not quite this inflexible

Quote:

We are angry; don't make any doubts about it. We are and have been angry with NVIDIA and many of its employees for many years. I could literally go on for pages about the colorful history between NVIDIA and TweakTown. The events of today prompted us to prepare a public response to NVIDIA's latest actions against us. We think it's high time that everyone knows how NVIDIA operate when the game gets heated.
...
we were put into a position where if we wanted a launch day review of a new GPU, we really had to fight for it, beyond on what we thought was reasonable. We had to work with NVIDIA partners to get a review sample if we wanted one at all. After countless anger fueled emails to NVIDIA, we eventually realized we were fighting a losing battle. It and the associated anger and stress was just a waste of our time and surely wasn't healthy for our wellbeing. We decided at some point (I can't remember exactly) that we would just acquire samples early on our own and post the reviews when we wished. We were not under NDA by NVIDIA - heck, they'd need to have a working open dialogue with us for that to even happen.

We enjoyed massive surges in website traffic every time we posted an NDA-free review, usually one or two weeks ahead of the actual NVIDIA launch day. . . . We were not looking for any type of special treatment - just not to be treated like worthless dogs. We were put into a position where we had no other choice. Case in point right here: Shane Baxtor (our VGA editor) moved to Taiwan at the end of 2011. We contacted Melody Tu who is the local PR person looking after things for NVIDIA in the Asian region. We asked her to meet up for a meeting to try and resolve our issues. Her response was that she was "too busy" to meet us. Too busy? Fair enough.

NVIDIA's response on our early release of reviews was to prevent certain video card vendor partners from sending us video cards. . . .The latest update is that MSI will continue to support us with video card samples, after a long discussion between MSI and TweakTown today.

The thing about this email that doesn't make much sense is the fact that it claims that we broke the MSI NDA. That wasn't the case; as I mentioned above, we posted the recent review of the MIS GTX 660 Ti Power Edition a couple minutes after the NDA expired and in the past we haven't broken other MSI video card NDAs. It must be that NVIDIA assume because our first retail video card review of the new GTX 660 Ti was of an MSI product, that it must have been MSI who supplied it to us early. We aren't too sure what proof they have to go along with those claims. It seems like NVIDIA is just going after MSI (and other partners) because they can or they don't know what else to do.

This is ultimately how NVIDIA treats its partners, like sh!t. It's these strong-arm tactics by NVIDIA that make us incredibly mad. Now we understand that NVIDIA needs to protect their products and the interests of the company, but MSI didn't do anything wrong. Yet this is how they (and other partners) are treated. I am sure many will be shocked, and rightfully so. If we could write everything we hear about what GPU partners say about NVIDIA, you'd be shocked even more. But in the interest of those who tell us these stories, we won't.

You need to read the whole thing, but TT accuses Nvidia of holding back innovation with a specific cooler. More

Quote:

For some silly reason, though, we continue to reach out to NVIDIA and try to make peace. Now that we're getting to the end of the GTX 600 series with only a few more models coming, all of a sudden they want to start being a bit more helpful.

Working together with NVIDIA on the GTX 600 series isn't going to happen. They can't expect to treat us with no respect when it comes to the high-end models and all of a sudden want to play nice when it comes to the lower end models. Maybe they will choose to offer us full support on the next generation of video cards, maybe they won't.

I've said this before and I'll say it again; for a long time we wanted no more than any other media when it came to NVIDIA support. Discovering our strength since being based out of Taiwan now, though, we expect a higher level of treatment. What's the worst case for us? We continue to release reviews without an NDA signed and reap the benefits that the traffic brings in and helps us grow bigger and bigger.

It looks like TT declared war. What do you think?

jaydip · Posted: Sat Aug 18, 2012 11:07 am

Saw it yesterday,its funny when TT was accused of a being a nv fansite.

apoppin · Posted: Sat Aug 18, 2012 11:29 am

Well, it certainly has escalated. They claim to want to work with Nvidia but when given a chance to do so, we finally see that they much *prefer* to get samples and break the NDA also.

You can't have your cake and eat it too. Evidently the way AMD see it, ABT broke an NDA (we weren't under; i signed a specific one for 6000 series, not 7000) once with them and they completely cut us off.

http://alienbabeltech.com/main/?p=27982

And it kinda set the tone for the entire year.

apoppin · Posted: Sat Aug 18, 2012 11:33 am

Looking at that preview, i was right

7970 *was* very short-lived. Less than 7 months to the GHz editions

i wish RS would quit saying that the GTX 660 Ti is 7 months late.
-- HD 78x0 did not launch 7 months before 660; they launched it in March - April (1 mo) - May (2 mo) - June (3 months) - July (4 month) - August (5months)
(hamster)

BallaTheFeared · Posted: Sat Aug 18, 2012 11:38 am

What's my motivation?

I think their reviews are pretty much moot since their test suite includes 0 relevant modern games.

A better way to get more consistent page hits would be to drop the 2008 era test suite, me thinks.

Also I don't consider it strong arming to protect your products and your market position.

apoppin · Posted: Sat Aug 18, 2012 11:43 am

i have to agree. They get massive traffic that fades in a few days by breaking these NDAs. i am kinda surprised that they do not update their games. That is one thing that i feel is pretty important to do to stay relevant. And for a big site, to spend $60 a month on a new game to benchmark is not too much to ask; that is 12 new games a year. i am also heading back up with the number of games to bench - i am using 22 games right now, mostly DX11.

The other thing that i don't agree with, is that they feel they are too "important" to be getting GTX 660/650 now under NDA when they were not given the higher-performing cards.

IMO these less expensive cards are what most gamers actually BUY. i feel it is really important to cover them as you get to see the architecture of the chips from top to bottom and i learned a LOT by evaluating the HD 6770, the GTS 450s, for example.

BallaTheFeared · Posted: Sat Aug 18, 2012 11:52 am

Obligatory "Umadbro?" & "Butthurt"

Last I checked Nvidia doesn't have to give you anything, and if you're going to become a leak website don't except AIB's to give you cards anymore. Which is clearly the point Nvidia is making to AIB's. They're willing to cut you out if you support leak sites with NDA samples, it only makes sense. TT talks, walks, and acts like a leak site yet throws a fit like a moron when Nvidia imposes what is the only practical recourse.

apoppin · Posted: Sat Aug 18, 2012 12:09 pm

Exactly. You cannot have it both ways. You cannot leak a product under NDA and then expect Nvidia/AMD/Intel and their partners to support you. You also cannot publicly badmouth a company and expect them to give you respect in return. It depends on your objectives; to reconcile or not. Charlie didn't and built a site around badmouthing Nvidia. Tt looks to not want to reconcile - they want to be placated; they are clearly upset.

Now one can be very successful as a 'leak site'. That is a choice one makes. But don't expect the company whose products you are leaking to like it and it is not unreasonable to expect that they will do everything they can legally do to stop future leaks, including cutting off a partner from access to new products until after release.

A leaked review can also be used as a "negotiating tool"; to get a company's attention - but that means that you must be a good negotiator and stick to your end of the bargain.
:hello:

grstanford · **Joined:** Sat Apr 24, 2010 11:19 am **Posts:** 5008

I think there is lots of childishness and stupidity on display from both sides and they both need to grow up.

apoppin · Posted: Sat Aug 18, 2012 1:26 pm

Of course, it all comes down to human contact and personalities. Each company has representatives and often there is a conflict over perceived slights - or real one.
"I don't have time", is inexcusable for any rep to say although we really don't know the context of it.

ABT's issue with AMD is different. We have spoken out in public against their using stealth and their employees on tech forums. Our position can not change on this. We believe that AMD is wrong to do this.

We were cut off from review samples for the singular reason that we disagree with AMD's stealth marketing. As a consequence, ABT is no longer under NDA with them as they send us nothing since 6000 series when the NDAs expired. However, ANY NDA that we agree to, we keep. That is ABT's policy and we have never broken it and never will.

However, we are not waging a campaign against them in our articles nor on our forum and we generally like their products and treat them fairly in review. There is just one policy of theirs that we disagree with on ethical grounds that keeps them from talking to us.
:hello:

TweakTown vs. Nvidia - TT declares War!

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