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PostPosted: Wed Sep 23, 2009 6:21 am 
Jealous... yeah, right! thats it... :hmm: :tease: :dizzy:

I *WILL* be buying a couple ... of GT300's (when they launch).


Last edited by gstanford on Wed Sep 23, 2009 11:49 am, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 23, 2009 6:30 am 
from anandtech:
Quote:
Somewhere on the way to Cypress, AMD’s small die strategy got slightly off-track.

Cypress is 334mm2, compared to 260mm2 for RV770. In that space they can pack 2.15 billion transistors, versus 956 million on the RV770, and come out at a load power of 188W versus 160W on the RV770. AMD called 256mm2 their sweet spot for the small die strategy, and Cypress missed that sweet spot.

The cost of missing the sweet spot is that by missing the size, they’re missing the price. The Cypress cards are $379 and $259, compared to $299 and $199 that the original small die strategy dictated. This has resulted in a hole in the Evergreen family, which is why we’re going to see one more member than usual.


I note with interest than Anand himself didn't even bother to author the review, one of the lesser minions (not even Derek Wilson) got the task. I wouldn't bother myself with subpar rubbish either.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 23, 2009 1:39 pm 
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dmcowen674 wrote:
gstanford wrote:
SO . . . reviews are flowing in now and what do we find?

Well over double the transistors of its predecessor, almost everything doubled, yet barely 50% faster.

ROFLMAO!

My GTX280 SLI setup (a touch better than a GTX295) is feeling particularly threatened.

All those shaders sitting there twiddling their thumbs. I said back when R600 launched (2006) that its shader setup was laughable. Nowadays its just pathetic.


You're so jealous, just buy a couple.


Frankly, i am not that terribly impressed from reading a dozen reviews:
http://alienbabeltech.com/main/?p=11223
(please add to the list here and we will update the article as new reviews are released)

http://www.sweclockers.com/articles_sho ... 195&page=1
http://www.tomshw.it/graphic.php?guide=20090923
http://www.hardocp.com/article/2009/09/ ... ard_review
http://www.guru3d.com/article/radeon-hd ... view-test/
http://www.legitreviews.com/article/1080/1/
http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/AMD/ ... s_Scaling/
http://www.tweaktown.com/reviews/2933/s ... index.html
http://www.hexus.net/content/item.php?item=20289
http://www.hexus.net/content/item.php?item=20354
http://anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=3643
http://www.hardwarecanucks.com/forum/ha ... eview.html
http://tweakers.net/reviews/1390/amd-la ... 1-los.html

http://techreport.com/articles.x/17618

1) Yes it IS the fastest single GPU that wipes the floor with GTX 285 (not really).
- 1a) and they improved the AF (f'ing finally) .. and they have 1b) eyefinity (who really cares .. now)
.. 1c) and DX11 - no big deal now - there are no DX11 games till Nvidia launches

But what really happened with 5870?

1. 5870 is NOT faster than the OLD 4870-X2 (so AMD EoL's it) :P
2. 5870 is beaten badly by GTX 295; it is really not that much faster than GTX 285 (i doubt BFG10K would care to exchange his for one; maybe - but it is not overwhelming)
3. $399 is expensive (yes GTX 285 is more expensive; but not for long)

imo 5870 is an average launch of warmed over and slightly improved tech .. not bad .. but i also think GT 300 will absolutely crush it
- if not, *then* Nvidia is really in trouble

i am in no hurry to get one either as my 4870-X2 is still just as fast and the now overpriced 5870 price will drop like a rock when GT 300 is released

i am more interested to see what the (crippled) 5850 can do; it might be a decent replacement for 4850, AMD's "best" GPU in the performance/watt category. And 5870-X2 is positioned to go against the forthcoming Nvidia's flagship, anyway.
:think:


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 23, 2009 2:01 pm 
Apperently they "seemingly" have improved the AF. There are hints (nothing confirmed yet) that the shimmering beast has yet to be fully tamed. It looks nice in synthetic tests, but how it plays out in motion in games is what really matters.
http://forum.beyond3d.com/showpost.php? ... stcount=42
Quote:
AF still is (and probably always will be) adaptive. The LOD-precision has been improved to a visually perfect level, but the reduced sample-count on AF and the reduced filtering at MIP-transistions is - in real applications like Crysis Warhead apart from the AF-tunnel - still visible.

So yes, they have it improved over the level of HD4800, but are still not noticeably above Geforce-default.


Carsten is no dummy. IIRC he is one of those responsible for exposing ATi's brilinear double standards back in the "3dmurk" days.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 23, 2009 9:27 pm 
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gstanford wrote:
from anandtech:
Quote:
Somewhere on the way to Cypress, AMD’s small die strategy got slightly off-track.

Cypress is 334mm2, compared to 260mm2 for RV770. In that space they can pack 2.15 billion transistors, versus 956 million on the RV770, and come out at a load power of 188W versus 160W on the RV770. AMD called 256mm2 their sweet spot for the small die strategy, and Cypress missed that sweet spot.

The cost of missing the sweet spot is that by missing the size, they’re missing the price. The Cypress cards are $379 and $259, compared to $299 and $199 that the original small die strategy dictated. This has resulted in a hole in the Evergreen family, which is why we’re going to see one more member than usual.


I note with interest than Anand himself didn't even bother to author the review, one of the lesser minions (not even Derek Wilson) got the task. I wouldn't bother myself with subpar rubbish either.


I noticed that too. But the architecture explanation falls in line with what i would expect from derek or anand. so i think that they definitely contributed to the review. Still confused why their name isn't on there, maybe they are busy at IDF.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 23, 2009 10:50 pm 
I didn't intend to be mean to Ryan by labelling him a "lesser minion" (but he is in the overall heirachy over there), he writes quite well from what I've seen.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 24, 2009 12:27 am 
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Well, your old buddy, Huddy was right. :tease:

It is a pleasant surprise to ATi fans; pleasant to ATi's bottom line ...
. . . heck, i think even Nvidia is pleased .. or at least relieved

this is not 4850 repeating itself :doh:


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 24, 2009 12:57 am 
Huddy is no buddy of mine.

I don't think ATi fans are as pleased as they thought they would be, personally going from the review threads.

I don't think this card will have legs against GT300 and it won't really do much for AMD's bottom line. There isn't a lot ATi will be able to do about that either, really - most of their design talent that came with the ArtX acquisition is gone now (there was a good recent b3d post about the departures - must dig it up) and they are pretty much back to the "old" ATi days, doomed to fiddle with the fringes of R600 forever.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 24, 2009 1:16 am 
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Someone quoted him as saying we would be "pleasantly surprised".

i'll be darned, he was right in his prediction .. not overwhelmed, not awed, not "wow" ..
.. kinda like, "nice" .. followed by "how much is it" and "when is Nvidia launching their new cards?" :tease:

5870 certainly isn't a bad first strike imo and i imagine that they are working on 5890 right now; that is their "real" card and 5870-X2 to go against GT 300 (or it's sandwich) without requiring an external power brick.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 24, 2009 1:27 am 
Poor old Huddy has been well and truly upstaged at ATi by the real FUD-meister -- Dave Baumann and his current signature
"Expand. Accelerate. Dominate.
ATI Radeon HD 5800 Series Graphics Cards - Designed by the Community"

Especially amusing is the "Dominate" and "Designed by the Community". Given the engineering talent left at ATi nowadays, giving the community a go may not be such a bad idea...


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 24, 2009 1:37 am 
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Quote:
ATI Radeon HD 5800 Series Graphics Cards - Designed by the Community"

Especially amusing is the "Dominate" and "Designed by the Community". Given the engineering talent left at ATi nowadays, giving the community a go may not be such a bad idea...


RotFL :rotfl:
(lld)

:D

sometimes you DO come up with some clever bon mots

:grin:


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 24, 2009 2:37 am 
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From a performance standpoint the 5870 is excellent: 40%-50% faster than the 4890. It isn’t consistently faster than the previous X2 offering, but then neither was the GT200 when it launched. There’s also a very small hit when going from 4xAA and 8xAA compared to the GTX285:

http://www.firingsquad.com/hardware/ati ... page20.asp
http://www.firingsquad.com/hardware/ati ... page21.asp

The main cause for concern here is that the SSAA implementation is an epic failure.

I was going to get a 5870 immediately but now I think I might just buy a 5850 for testing/review purposes.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 24, 2009 3:00 am 
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i am thinking the same thing you are about getting 5850 instead of 5870
... it is not a bad launch at all, don't get me wrong .. 4870-X2 is still clearly AMD's performance flagship, but it's being discontinued; i am really looking forward to 5870-X2 and then 5890

i was pleasantly surprised :tease:


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 24, 2009 5:55 am 
Its nice to see RGSSAA, and I'd like nvidia to also offer it instead of OGSSAA, but, nvidia's hybrid *xS modes are a better performance compromise than pure SSAA at present.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 24, 2009 10:13 am 
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gstanford wrote:
Its nice to see RGSSAA,

Yes, but ATi’s implementation is a failure; it's not supposed to blur things like that.

If they aren’t stacking AF then they should at least sharpen the LOD to compensate.

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