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PostPosted: Mon Nov 29, 2010 5:03 am 
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Pardon me, but most of the guys *selling* their cards *already* bought GTX 580's. Remember the 285's being so expensive last year, more than what 295's are re-selling for now.. well, they had nothing to upgrade to, as many do not switch camps from NV to AMD so easily. Oh come on, the used card prices have to affect new cards somehow, even if by only 10%. Blast me wrong all you want.. ha!

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 29, 2010 5:08 am 
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OK, i'll accept a temporary ten percent
:D


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 30, 2010 1:18 am 
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apoppin wrote:
OK, i'll accept a temporary ten percent
:D

What, you can't accept 11%? (mad1) :P

About the 570, I guess it won't be any faster than GTX 480. So, one of my predictions failed already, if the leak about 320-bit bus is gonna be true for the 570.. :-q

Dang, forgot to include GTX 595 in my predictions! I'll go ahead and guess that it'll be a few percentage points faster than 6990, somewhat due to better SLI scaling than CF, and NV's determination on winning the 40nm round for once and for all, like with the late GTX 295 vs 4870X2 that was around for much longer.

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Which one do your intentions belong to: Heaven, or Hell?
If you DIE tonight, do you partake in good days, good days, good days, good days, good days, good life in Heaven, forever and ever?

To be forgiven by Jesus, He rose us from the sinful dead with bonding love.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 8:21 pm 
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now i can't comment :P

But i hope you don't mind if we sticky this thread in Video. A lot of work went into it.
:good:


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 02, 2010 12:16 pm 
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My, thank you! :blush: I do mind it being stickied (minding it in a nice, grateful way)! (F)

"Now I can't comment", meaning you're bound to NDA terms, or you just don't want to? (cooking)

BTW, I think that if NV could finally release a full GF106 (GTS 450) with 192-bit memory and 24 ROP's (like the slower-clocked GTX 460M for notebooks) while maintaining the same 783MHz clock, it just might trade blows with a 5770. Clock it at least 800MHz, and it's very likely to come out ahead. Why is Nvidia waiting so long to do this? Perhaps NV wants to keep 1.5GB for high-end Fermi cards only for now, and afraid that 768MB would scare buyers away from choosing it over a 5750 1GB for example. Or maybe NV is afraid that it would come too close to a GTX 460 768MB (with same 24ROP's, but lower pixel output due to much lower clocks, plus it's already priced low enough, so NV has nowhere to position the full GF106 without pricing the well-selling 128-bit version down the toilet), especially if it does indeed have 48 TMU's instead of 32. Maybe NV just wants to wait and see what AMD has to do with the 5770. It's driving me nuts. Is NV just collecting all of the good chips and using it for 460M low-powered notebooks, or saving it to counter AMD's 5770 replacement, with adjusted clocks and voltages?

See a review on GTX 460M that just came out yesterday: http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/gef ... 799-2.html
It says that it has the same 32 TMU's, not 48 as I speculated... oh well. ( EDIT-- I keep on forgetting that, the TMU's are usually linear with the shaders, not the ROP's/memory bus. )

Still, this is what GTS 250 should have been, instead of just a renamed 9800GTX+ with 1GB of memory. It would have served NV very, very well during their long depression between the discontinued 285/275 and delayed Fermi. The exact specs including DX11 support were certainly do-able on 55nm, just requiring high power consumption shy of 4890/275 territory. That way, the 5770 would've had less appeal, plus the 5830 would've had no chance but to carry 32ROP's and a true 256-bit bus. IMHO, the GF104 architecture is probably what the canned G90 project (replaced by G92 and GT200) would have looked a lot like (with 384-bit GDDR3 and DX10 instead). Oh, I can feel Nvidia's intermittent "phantom limb syndrome" from having cut off the 9900 Ultra along with its dream G90 project that was under development for 2-3+ years, heh! 8-}

EDIT:

GTS 550 (full GF106) speculated specs compared to GTS 450 and G80:
~5% higher clocks than GTS 450 (around 825 MHz) -- fast 192sp's having 10-15% more shader operations/sec than GTX 260-216, at least 20% more texturing power than 8800 Ultra
50-60% more bandwidth than GTS 450 due to 192-bit bus with ~5% faster GDDR5 (~5% more bandwidth than 8800GTX's 384-bit GDDR3)
50% more ROP's (same 24 ROP's as 8800GTX, but at least 40% higher clock and pixel output capacity)

Now, only if it could have at least 48-64 TMU's... then it would've been much, much closer to what the souped-up G90 would've looked like on 55nm (although it would hardly have any more bandwidth than 8800 Ultra, and come in either 768MB or 1.5GB flavors).


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 09, 2010 9:18 pm 
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Update: Added GTX 570.. I had a hard time deciding if the 570 should be placed above the 480. While the larger 1.5GB buffer (along with 48 vs 40 ROP's and 16.7% more bandwidth) makes the 480 seem more future-proof than the 1.25GB buffer of the 570, the doubling of FP16 texturing capacity ultimately makes the 570 more futureproof than the 480 in the long run. 3DMark Vantage and its heavy usage of FP16 textures show this, and we can already see the gains in DiRT2, a DX11 game that makes light use of FP16 textures.

AlienBabelTech's review seems to be perfectly in line with the average of the rest of other reviews out there.

http://techreport.com/articles.x/20088
http://www.anandtech.com/show/4051/nvidias-geforce-gtx-570-filling-in-the-gaps
http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/2010/12/07/nvidia-geforce-gtx-570-1-3gb-review/1
http://www.hardwareheaven.com/reviews.php?reviewid=1080
http://www.hardwarecanucks.com/forum/hardware-canucks-reviews/38626-nvidia-geforce-gtx-570-review.html
http://www.hexus.net/content/item.php?item=27782
http://www.pcper.com/article.php?aid=1046
http://www.hardocp.com/article/2010/12/07/nvidia_geforce_gtx_570_video_card_review
http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/ASUS/GeForce_GTX_570/
http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/Palit/GeForce_GTX_570_Sonic_Platinum/
http://www.legitreviews.com/article/1482/1/
http://www.guru3d.com/article/geforce-gtx-570-review/
http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/geforce-gtx-570-gf110-performance,review-32062.html
http://lab501.ro/placi-video/nvidia-geforce-gtx-570-review
http://www.hardware.fr/articles/811-1/dossier-nvidia-geforce-gtx-570.html
http://www.firingsquad.com/hardware/nvidia_geforce_gtx_570_review/
http://hothardware.com/Reviews/NVIDIA-GeForce-GTX-570-DirectX-11-Graphics-Card-Review/
http://www.neoseeker.com/Articles/Hardware/Reviews/NVIDIA_GeForce_GTX_570/
http://benchmarkreviews.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=426&Itemid=72
http://www.overclockersclub.com/reviews/nvidia_geforce_gtx_570_review/
http://www.rage3d.com/reviews/video/evga_gtx_570_sc
http://www.bjorn3d.com/read.php?cID=1962
http://www.techspot.com/review/346-gigabyte-geforce-gtx-570/
http://www.computerbase.de/artikel/grafikkarten/2010/test-nvidia-geforce-gtx-570/
http://www.hkepc.com/5868/page/4#view
http://www.maximumpc.com/article/features/lab_testing_nvidia%E2%80%99s_holiday_gift_gtx_570
http://tbreak.com/tech/2010/12/zotac-gtx-570-review/
http://www.techradar.com/reviews/pc-mac/pc-components/graphics-cards/nvidia-geforce-gtx-570-913440/review?artc_pg=1
http://www.hitechlegion.com/reviews/video-cards/7274-evga-geforce-gtx-570-superclocked-review
http://www.hitechlegion.com/reviews/video-cards/7276-nvidia-geforce-gtx-570-directx-11-video-card-review
http://www.tweaktown.com/reviews/3714/gainward_geforce_gtx_570_1280mb_goes_like_hell_video_card/index.html
http://ve3d.ign.com/articles/reviews/58228/NVIDIA-GTX-570-Launch-News-Review-and-Benchmarks
http://alienbabeltech.com/main/?p=22392
http://ht4u.net/reviews/2010/nvidia_geforce_gtx_570_gf110_test/
http://www.techarp.com/showarticle.aspx?artno=706&pgno=0
http://vr-zone.com/articles/nvidia-geforce-gtx-570-review-gainward-s-custom-gtx-570-goes-like-hell-edition/10433.html?doc=10433
http://www.nvnews.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=157771
http://www.legionhardware.com/articles_pages/gigabyte_geforce_gtx_570,1.html
GTX 570 SLI Review
http://www.guru3d.com/article/geforce-gtx-570-sli-review/

The 570 does come out within 1% faster than the 480, more like 0.5% overall, I would estimate for now. Techpowerup's conclusion show the overclocked 570 at only 1% advantage over the stock 480, but AlienBabelTech's review is the most well-rounded review out there with more reasonable and practical settings and resolutions that the card allows (the settings that the enthusiast gamer would choose anyways). Also, ABT's review has by far the most games covered in benchmarks of all the review sites out there (23 discrete games to be exact, plus Vantage and Unigine). For the list and numbers, see:
ABT's conclusion chart of GTX 570 performance
http://alienbabeltech.com/main/?p=22392&page=28


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 09, 2010 9:39 pm 
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Definitely place the GTX 570 above the GTX 480
:good:


And i think we may have found our new PR guy
(thy)


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 11, 2010 2:25 am 
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Very nice.

You grouped the cards pretty well. I don't see anything wrong with your rankings, actually.


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 12, 2010 7:16 pm 
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Thanks, man.. all thanks to your idea about the groupings! (beer2)

_________________
Which one do your intentions belong to: Heaven, or Hell?
If you DIE tonight, do you partake in good days, good days, good days, good days, good days, good life in Heaven, forever and ever?

To be forgiven by Jesus, He rose us from the sinful dead with bonding love.

______

Dear GOD, My GOD, I Will Live With YOU In YOUR BONDING LOVE and YOUR Heavenly Faith And Love Forever And Forever, Amen.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 14, 2010 4:12 am 
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GT430 seems to beat HD 5550 GDDR5 according to http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/video/ ... html#sect3 which is contrary to other reviews, IIRC... cant remember which ones exactly, but gotta check on that. Approx. 10% faster according to Xbitlabs, to be exact..

_________________
Which one do your intentions belong to: Heaven, or Hell?
If you DIE tonight, do you partake in good days, good days, good days, good days, good days, good life in Heaven, forever and ever?

To be forgiven by Jesus, He rose us from the sinful dead with bonding love.

______

Dear GOD, My GOD, I Will Live With YOU In YOUR BONDING LOVE and YOUR Heavenly Faith And Love Forever And Forever, Amen.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 14, 2010 7:31 am 
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HW canucks seems to agree (its close but GT430 win), hothardware doesnt (close but 5550 wins). Hothardware tests at higher resolution.
Hexus puts the 5550 as the clear winner, also at higher resolution.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 14, 2010 4:08 pm 
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Beowulf wrote:
HW canucks seems to agree (its close but GT430 win), hothardware doesnt (close but 5550 wins). Hothardware tests at higher resolution.
Hexus puts the 5550 as the clear winner, also at higher resolution.
Thanks, dude! I'm gonna check them out. EDIT: Hexus shows the 5550 winning by 20% in most games, even at 1280x1024 with 0-2x AA, so I'm just gonna leave it alone due to the massively conflicting reviews (Xbit's being 10% faster etc.. , but Hexus 20% slower).

BTW, I missed an effin' awesome article done by SkyMTL that compares the overclocked GTX 460 1GB FTW against overclocked 6870 and 6850. The 6870 and 6850 are also overclocked at over-volted settings in addition to stock voltages, and the power consumption doesn't skyrocket--in fact, all of these cards remain under GTX 470's power consumption even when overvolted and oc'ed to past 1GHz.
See: http://www.hardwarecanucks.com/forum/ha ... study.html

Image

Interesting, ain't it? I'm actually thinking of putting the GTX 460 FTW in the list, because it's so far from the default GTX 460 1GB clocks, and because most GTX 460's can overclock almost all the way to the FTW clocks (with the FTW version gaining so much popularity that it's already included in several 6850/6870 reviews). The default 460 loses out to 6850, but the FTW edition beats an overclocked 6850 at stock voltage, and also beats the default 6870 by 2% according to SkyMTL.


Last edited by BoFox on Thu Dec 16, 2010 7:28 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 15, 2010 5:12 pm 
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^^ EVGA's GTX 460 1GB FTW cards are in a very limited supply, and consumers have been reporting issues with the card, so I'll have to wait on that.

Anyways, on the 6970 and 6950, here is a russian article that tries to look into the theoretical benchmarks/performances of the new Cayman design:

http://www.ixbt.com/video3/cayman-part1.shtml

http://translate.google.com/translate?u ... =&ie=UTF-8

Techreport has a chart with the overall performance index according to the 7 games that they benchmarked:
Image
Quote:
Holy moly, we have a tie. The GTX 570 and 6970 are evenly matched overall in terms of raw performance. With the results this close, we should acknowledge that the addition or subtraction of a single game could sway the results in either direction.
http://www.techreport.com/articles.x/20126/16
The 6970, 570, and 480 are all at 38 FPS overall. However, other review sites seem to suggest that the 6970 is a tad bit faster overall.


Last edited by BoFox on Thu Dec 16, 2010 6:55 am, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 16, 2010 5:42 am 
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apoppin wrote:
Definitely place the GTX 570 above the GTX 480
:good:


And i think we may have found our new PR guy
(thy)
Thanks.. so how much do I get paid for being your PR guy now? :yahoo:

Finally, I found some strong evidence that the 570 is slower than the 480 when using 8xAA, but faster when using 4x AA. Here ( http://www.computerbase.de/artikel/graf ... _ohne_aaaf ), look at the 1920x1200 charts, one with 4xAA, and then the other with 8xAA. Still, both are within 1% of each other.
Less than 1% isn't bad for 20% less ROP's found on the 570 when compared to the 480.. not shabby at all. It serves to prove that 48 ROP's are already plentiful on the 480. Only at 2560x1600 at 8xAA does the 480 pull wayyy ahead (6% faster), exposing the 570's ROP bottleneck (the 570 was beating the 480 @2560x1600 w/4xAA by 1.8%).

According to your chart here on ABT: http://alienbabeltech.com/main/?p=22610&page=28
Image
Image

GTX 570 has a total of 1403.64 frames for the higher settings of all the 23 games---divided by 23 equals 61.02 FPS.
HD 6970 has a total of 1409.58 frames for the higher settings of all the 23 games---divided by 23 equals 61.28 FPS.
HD 6950 has a total of 1271.07 frames for the higher settings of all the 23 games---divided by 23 equals 55.26 FPS.

(GTX 480 has a total of 1402.88 frames for the higher settings of all the 23 games---divided by 23 equals 60.99 FPS.)


I have found your review to be consistent with the average of the rest of other hardware review sites out there. Plus, your ABT review covers by FAR the most games of any reviews out there (23 games, not including Vantage or Unigine). Even better, the ABT review uses more reasonable settings that are closer to what a person with a GTX 570 would actually choose when playing those games (not just 1920x1200 w/4xAA and never 8xAA like Anandtech's).

HD 6970 is, according to ABT, 0.4% faster than GTX 570.
HD 6970 is, according to ABT, 10.9% faster than HD 6950.

GTX 570 is, according to ABT, 0.05% faster than GTX 480... the closest thing to 0% that I've seen in a long time!



________________

Thanks to Dezmen for sharing, here are the rest of reviews on 6970/6950 cards:

Video Reviews:

Reviews:

Radeon HD 6970 & HD 6950

Radeon HD 6970

Radeon HD 6950

Radeon HD 6970 & HD 6950 CrossFire


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 16, 2010 9:07 am 
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Updated the list with 6970 and 6950 cards!!!

Now the 6950 is "in a class of its own"........ with a 5870, of course, after it's been downgraded from the 480/570 class. It caused a large shift in the list, pushing nearly all of middle and lower high-end/upper-mid cards into a lower class.

_________________
Which one do your intentions belong to: Heaven, or Hell?
If you DIE tonight, do you partake in good days, good days, good days, good days, good days, good life in Heaven, forever and ever?

To be forgiven by Jesus, He rose us from the sinful dead with bonding love.

______

Dear GOD, My GOD, I Will Live With YOU In YOUR BONDING LOVE and YOUR Heavenly Faith And Love Forever And Forever, Amen.


Last edited by BoFox on Tue Sep 25, 2012 8:43 am, edited 1 time in total.

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