(07-29-2017, 09:51 AM)SickBeast Wrote: However I would much rather see that money in the hands of the thousands of people at the bottom as opposed to the single CEO making $20 million a year.  Actually I would suggest that the vast majority of the corporations affected by a higher minimum wage could simply cut their executive salaries and they would probably even come out ahead.

(07-29-2017, 04:46 PM)RolloTheGreat Wrote:

(07-29-2017, 09:51 AM)SickBeast Wrote: Look, ocre, you and I have completely different world views.  You're from the deep south and I'm from Canada...let's just say that we're both surrounded by completely different societies.  I can disagree with your opinions and still walk away with a lot of respect for you.  What you have just posted is completely reasonable.  The post of mine that you just quoted was directed at Rollo, who has shown repeatedly that he has a complete disdain for the poor and also "slackers" as he calls them.

You say I don't understand the poor in the USA, that's a fair point, I haven't really studied it, I just know what I know based on what I have seen.  Talk to any Canadian that has visited the States, they will all tell you that the ghettos there are unlike anything seen in Canada.  The burnt out buildings, the boarded up windows.  People are actually *living* in those conditions.  You call that a life?

Maybe things are a bit different there.  Perhaps people can get by on a minimum wage living.  That is simply not possible here, the cost of living is simply too high in our cities.  Like I said before, the people making minimum wage are our most vulnerable.  They are working and contributing to society, not sitting at home collecting social assistance.  Economist after economist has touted the benefits of raising the minimum wage.  The only ones opposed to it are the businesses.  They have to meet their bottom line and they have to maximize their profits to their shareholders, I get that.  However I would much rather see that money in the hands of the thousands of people at the bottom as opposed to the single CEO making $20 million a year.  Actually I would suggest that the vast majority of the corporations affected by a higher minimum wage could simply cut their executive salaries and they would probably even come out ahead.

What I find interesting is that people are just wired different politically.  I don't think you and Rollo can see it any other way, nor should you really.  This diversity is really what makes democracy great and it's what makes our systems work.  You guys are right about some things, guys like me are right about others.  I have a lot of compassion for the less fortunate.  Heck, I have *been* that person before in my life, I know how hard it is.

Like I said before, my post was directed at Rollo, not you.  I do appreciate our discussions on ABT.  Things are always civil and I feel like I'm having an intellectual conversation with you.

"Look Ocre I just want to criticize Rollo"?


A. Who are you to say what CEOs should make? How would you like it if they said YOU make too much money?
B. As noted, higher minimums are a big problem for small business, and small business is half our jobs, a leader in jobs creation, the origin of many big corporations, and way for families to obtain wealth and independence outside of the corporate world. Your view is almost like communism, "Everyone works together for the big effort and the workers wages are raised, management is lowered, because everyone's job is just as important!".
C. I've been poor as well, to the point I actually got food stamps. (govt assistance) I did not have the heart to use them and did not, but I have been poor. You know what I found? It was a really good motivation to try and get ahead.
D. The working poor here already are subsidized with health care, food stamps, rent assistance. You want them to be paid more as well?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/food-stamp-recipients-working-poor_us_58cac50fe4b00705db4d1364

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/02/gop-base-poverty-snap-social-security/516861/

(07-29-2017, 10:42 PM)gstanford Wrote: The image below is from the 2nd video I posted above.

I'm posting it here because of Ocre's claim that poor people can eat healthy food for less money than they spend on junk food.

Poor people have less money that they can devote to purchasing food every pay packet compared to richer people.  The rent/mortgage has to be paid, the power has to be paid etc, so there is less money left over for discretionary spending on food.  and the junk food they purchase is addictive (sugar is more addictive than nicotine and cocaine), so they keep buying it.

(07-30-2017, 12:22 AM)dmcowen674 Wrote: I am back from visiting Dad in Florida, step mom unexpectedly suddenly died. She apparently got up from bed too fast and fell and hit her head on the night table and bled out. Gruesome for my Dad and sister :( . On way back up driving I apparently rubbed or scratched my right eye and got an ulcer tear and it got infected. Been to eye doc everyday since as she is trying to save my eye. In her words, it blew up. Until yesterday was just frosted glass, could not see anything. Now it is more of a foggy haze. Drops on the hour every hour since last Tuesday does not make for good sleep.

(06-22-2016, 08:44 AM)RolloTheGreat Wrote:

(06-22-2016, 06:01 AM)SickBeast Wrote: They are part timers.  They come by here when they feel like it.

They are ABT cockatoos, they will be back.

(10-02-2017, 08:07 AM)SickBeast Wrote:

(06-22-2016, 08:44 AM)RolloTheGreat Wrote:

(06-22-2016, 06:01 AM)SickBeast Wrote: They are part timers.  They come by here when they feel like it.

They are ABT cockatoos, they will be back.

I'm still meditating on this iconic post.  Unfortunately it is horribly inaccurate.

(10-02-2017, 05:40 PM)RolloTheGreat Wrote:

(10-02-2017, 08:07 AM)SickBeast Wrote:

(06-22-2016, 08:44 AM)RolloTheGreat Wrote:

(06-22-2016, 06:01 AM)SickBeast Wrote: They are part timers.  They come by here when they feel like it.

They are ABT cockatoos, they will be back.

I'm still meditating on this iconic post.  Unfortunately it is horribly inaccurate.

Maybe they will roost at BTR now, or just join the 1000s who have left this dying medium of communication for good.

You should ask your buddy Apoppin about how he used to tell me ABT was going to be bigger "bigger than Google" because of his ideas for the forum and the mix of talent he had working here. I told him then it can't happen because forums and websites like this were in the process of dying then.

Nothing I've seen since convinces me any different.

And of course Mark didn't pay off on our bet that he would even crack the top 10,000 sites at Alexa.

Nonetheless, I wish him well. He deserves some success for all the hard work he's done. Not his fault he did it in a fading industry.

(10-07-2017, 07:55 AM)SickBeast Wrote: They may never roost again.  If they do it certainly won't be at BTR.  They both have major beef with apoppin.  I can't say I didn't try.  For them to leave here without a trace it tells me that they either have no time to post on here or elsewhere (ocre), or else something may have happened to them (BoFox).  I hope they both are doing well.

(10-07-2017, 07:55 AM)SickBeast Wrote: It's nice to hear you wish Mark well for once.  He is a really great guy and he is an important part of the PC hardware enthusiast community.

I think it's got to be hard to be in charge of a forum and keep everyone happy.  There are a lot of big personalities on ABT.  What I think happened was that he did some things to try to manage the community, and there was backlash because most people joined here because of the "free speech", which is clearly very important to Dave.  I have got to say I really admire it.  This is one of the only places online where we can truly express ourselves freely.  I really can't see Dave ever moderating anyone unless something really extreme happens.

Anyhow, Mark has a right to run his website the way he sees fit.  I think he has done a really nice job with BTR.  You could be right in that tech forums are dying.  We could definitely use more members over there.  We have tried with contests and stuff but it hasn't been working.  I am at a bit of a loss for ideas.  Actually the comment sections of his articles are quite active, arguably with more activity than the BTR forum.  Perhaps the comments can be integrated in the forum somehow.  I will suggest it to Mario.

(10-08-2017, 06:44 PM)RolloTheGreat Wrote:

(10-07-2017, 07:55 AM)SickBeast Wrote: They may never roost again.  If they do it certainly won't be at BTR.  They both have major beef with apoppin.  I can't say I didn't try.  For them to leave here without a trace it tells me that they either have no time to post on here or elsewhere (ocre), or else something may have happened to them (BoFox).  I hope they both are doing well.

Well, Mark did call them "no life losers" and tell them to "fuck themselves", that kind of stuff is will tend to annoy people.

(10-07-2017, 07:55 AM)SickBeast Wrote: It's nice to hear you wish Mark well for once.  He is a really great guy and he is an important part of the PC hardware enthusiast community.

I think it's got to be hard to be in charge of a forum and keep everyone happy.  There are a lot of big personalities on ABT.  What I think happened was that he did some things to try to manage the community, and there was backlash because most people joined here because of the "free speech", which is clearly very important to Dave.  I have got to say I really admire it.  This is one of the only places online where we can truly express ourselves freely.  I really can't see Dave ever moderating anyone unless something really extreme happens.

Anyhow, Mark has a right to run his website the way he sees fit.  I think he has done a really nice job with BTR.  You could be right in that tech forums are dying.  We could definitely use more members over there.  We have tried with contests and stuff but it hasn't been working.  I am at a bit of a loss for ideas.  Actually the comment sections of his articles are quite active, arguably with more activity than the BTR forum.  Perhaps the comments can be integrated in the forum somehow.  I will suggest it to Mario.

The only thing I had against Mark was his unfairly banning me here for calling out his Obamacare instead of "go get a job" lifestyle.

He is free to run his website any way he likes, but the forums are basically VHS tapes these days. Sure there are some around, but they're fading fast.

There's not enough to discuss with only one clear choice in CPUs and graphics. What are we supposed to talk about?

"Yep, have to buy intel and NVIDIA"

"I agree"

"I agree"

"I agree"

"I agree"


"I agree"


"I agree"


"I agree"


"I agree"

" AMD CPUs and GPUs off a darn good value and lots of good people working for gamers at AMD" -Aten Ra

Just not much point any more?

AMD CPUs are certainly a great buy for productivity apps, and their GPUs look like they might be bargain productivity solutions for some things as well, but that is not what we discuss on gaming forums. Here frame rate, image quality, even frame delivery are the coins of the realm and NV and intel own those metrics now.

So, dead and nothing Mark can do can change that. There's nothing to talk about.

(10-09-2017, 04:41 AM)SickBeast Wrote:

(10-08-2017, 06:44 PM)RolloTheGreat Wrote:

(10-07-2017, 07:55 AM)SickBeast Wrote: They may never roost again.  If they do it certainly won't be at BTR.  They both have major beef with apoppin.  I can't say I didn't try.  For them to leave here without a trace it tells me that they either have no time to post on here or elsewhere (ocre), or else something may have happened to them (BoFox).  I hope they both are doing well.

Well, Mark did call them "no life losers" and tell them to "fuck themselves", that kind of stuff is will tend to annoy people.

(10-07-2017, 07:55 AM)SickBeast Wrote: It's nice to hear you wish Mark well for once.  He is a really great guy and he is an important part of the PC hardware enthusiast community.

I think it's got to be hard to be in charge of a forum and keep everyone happy.  There are a lot of big personalities on ABT.  What I think happened was that he did some things to try to manage the community, and there was backlash because most people joined here because of the "free speech", which is clearly very important to Dave.  I have got to say I really admire it.  This is one of the only places online where we can truly express ourselves freely.  I really can't see Dave ever moderating anyone unless something really extreme happens.

Anyhow, Mark has a right to run his website the way he sees fit.  I think he has done a really nice job with BTR.  You could be right in that tech forums are dying.  We could definitely use more members over there.  We have tried with contests and stuff but it hasn't been working.  I am at a bit of a loss for ideas.  Actually the comment sections of his articles are quite active, arguably with more activity than the BTR forum.  Perhaps the comments can be integrated in the forum somehow.  I will suggest it to Mario.

The only thing I had against Mark was his unfairly banning me here for calling out his Obamacare instead of "go get a job" lifestyle.

He is free to run his website any way he likes, but the forums are basically VHS tapes these days. Sure there are some around, but they're fading fast.

There's not enough to discuss with only one clear choice in CPUs and graphics. What are we supposed to talk about?

"Yep, have to buy intel and NVIDIA"

"I agree"

"I agree"

"I agree"

"I agree"


"I agree"


"I agree"


"I agree"


"I agree"

" AMD CPUs and GPUs off a darn good value and lots of good people working for gamers at AMD" -Aten Ra

Just not much point any more?

AMD CPUs are certainly a great buy for productivity apps, and their GPUs look like they might be bargain productivity solutions for some things as well, but that is not what we discuss on gaming forums. Here frame rate, image quality, even frame delivery are the coins of the realm and NV and intel own those metrics now.

So, dead and nothing Mark can do can change that. There's nothing to talk about.

Well Rollo, and I'm just being honest here, you can be really hot or cold.  You're either really nice and great to talk to, or you go off and start insulting people and getting really offensive and hostile.  So if you're wondering why you have been banned at so many places, that is the reason more than anything else.  The infamy you gained in NVidia's viral marketing program didn't help matters for you.  You had a huge ongoing beef with apoppin and I guess something had to give.  I'll put it to you this way, if you had a belligerent guy in your house as a guest and he was patronizing you over your political views and also your lack of education, what would you do?  Would you let them stay?  I think most people would show them the door.  I realize everyone has a bad day here and there, it's just that with you those "cold" days are pretty frequent and it can be quite disruptive.

I hope I'm not being too hard on you here.  I'm just trying to help you understand, because you still seem oblivious to the fact that these bannings and whatnot have happened for a reason.

I will also say that most of the time you're fun to chat with online and you often bring well thought out points to the discussion.  It's the other portion of time that gets you into trouble.

A good friend of mine didn't even finish high school, yet he makes more money than me with my multiple university degrees, and he can beat me at Words with Friends with my 138 IQ score and my ability to speak, read, and write multiple languages.  Education doesn't mean all that much.  Bill Gates is a university dropout, for example.

(10-09-2017, 05:51 PM)RolloTheGreat Wrote:

(10-09-2017, 04:41 AM)SickBeast Wrote:

(10-08-2017, 06:44 PM)RolloTheGreat Wrote:

(10-07-2017, 07:55 AM)SickBeast Wrote: They may never roost again.  If they do it certainly won't be at BTR.  They both have major beef with apoppin.  I can't say I didn't try.  For them to leave here without a trace it tells me that they either have no time to post on here or elsewhere (ocre), or else something may have happened to them (BoFox).  I hope they both are doing well.

Well, Mark did call them "no life losers" and tell them to "fuck themselves", that kind of stuff is will tend to annoy people.

(10-07-2017, 07:55 AM)SickBeast Wrote: It's nice to hear you wish Mark well for once.  He is a really great guy and he is an important part of the PC hardware enthusiast community.

I think it's got to be hard to be in charge of a forum and keep everyone happy.  There are a lot of big personalities on ABT.  What I think happened was that he did some things to try to manage the community, and there was backlash because most people joined here because of the "free speech", which is clearly very important to Dave.  I have got to say I really admire it.  This is one of the only places online where we can truly express ourselves freely.  I really can't see Dave ever moderating anyone unless something really extreme happens.

Anyhow, Mark has a right to run his website the way he sees fit.  I think he has done a really nice job with BTR.  You could be right in that tech forums are dying.  We could definitely use more members over there.  We have tried with contests and stuff but it hasn't been working.  I am at a bit of a loss for ideas.  Actually the comment sections of his articles are quite active, arguably with more activity than the BTR forum.  Perhaps the comments can be integrated in the forum somehow.  I will suggest it to Mario.

The only thing I had against Mark was his unfairly banning me here for calling out his Obamacare instead of "go get a job" lifestyle.

He is free to run his website any way he likes, but the forums are basically VHS tapes these days. Sure there are some around, but they're fading fast.

There's not enough to discuss with only one clear choice in CPUs and graphics. What are we supposed to talk about?

"Yep, have to buy intel and NVIDIA"

"I agree"

"I agree"

"I agree"

"I agree"


"I agree"


"I agree"


"I agree"


"I agree"

" AMD CPUs and GPUs off a darn good value and lots of good people working for gamers at AMD" -Aten Ra

Just not much point any more?

AMD CPUs are certainly a great buy for productivity apps, and their GPUs look like they might be bargain productivity solutions for some things as well, but that is not what we discuss on gaming forums. Here frame rate, image quality, even frame delivery are the coins of the realm and NV and intel own those metrics now.

So, dead and nothing Mark can do can change that. There's nothing to talk about.

Well Rollo, and I'm just being honest here, you can be really hot or cold.  You're either really nice and great to talk to, or you go off and start insulting people and getting really offensive and hostile.  So if you're wondering why you have been banned at so many places, that is the reason more than anything else.  The infamy you gained in NVidia's viral marketing program didn't help matters for you.  You had a huge ongoing beef with apoppin and I guess something had to give.  I'll put it to you this way, if you had a belligerent guy in your house as a guest and he was patronizing you over your political views and also your lack of education, what would you do?  Would you let them stay?  I think most people would show them the door.  I realize everyone has a bad day here and there, it's just that with you those "cold" days are pretty frequent and it can be quite disruptive.

I hope I'm not being too hard on you here.  I'm just trying to help you understand, because you still seem oblivious to the fact that these bannings and whatnot have happened for a reason.

I will also say that most of the time you're fun to chat with online and you often bring well thought out points to the discussion.  It's the other portion of time that gets you into trouble.

A good friend of mine didn't even finish high school, yet he makes more money than me with my multiple university degrees, and he can beat me at Words with Friends with my 138 IQ score and my ability to speak, read, and write multiple languages.  Education doesn't mean all that much.  Bill Gates is a university dropout, for example.

I'm not "wondering why I was banned at places" because I've been back on a lot of those places years without the Rollo name and NVIDIA ties and I've never been banned once. Also, before I was in the NVIDIA Focus Group I was only banned from one forum, and that was over a lot of years.

It's a puzzling mystery, wasn't banned before or after Focus Group, but banned everywhere during. WHAT could be the cause?!

Yeah I don't wonder too much, or worry about it, because I post everywhere I want to and no one bans me or even much notices except to reply to me. (or bump my reputation up) Amazingly enough, the same people quoting and bumping me rep would probably be calling for my head if I was posting as Rollo, the guy that got free video cards.

(10-09-2017, 09:10 PM)SickBeast Wrote: Here you go, Rollo, we will see what they do:

https://forums.anandtech.com/threads/unban-rollo.2521681/

(10-09-2017, 10:47 PM)RolloTheGreat Wrote:

(10-09-2017, 09:10 PM)SickBeast Wrote: Here you go, Rollo, we will see what they do:

https://forums.anandtech.com/threads/unban-rollo.2521681/

And that proves/disproves nothing.

Was I banned before Focus Group? No.

Have I been banned after Focus Group? No, except by Apoppin.

Have I ever been banned from a non tech forum where people don't know who NVIDIA is? No.

I've been posting on forums almost 30 years, non stop and the only time Ive been banned is once from a 3dfx sponsored forum for calling out 3dfx shortcomings, and while in the NVIDIA Focus Group.

If the conclusion you draw from that is "Rollo is a bad guy and no one will let him post anywhere" you need more degrees.

(10-10-2017, 07:22 AM)gstanford Wrote: Seriously, who cares about anandtech anyway?  There are much better tech forums out there to post on that don't have mods bought and paid for by nvidia.

(10-10-2017, 05:01 AM)BenSkywalker Wrote: Rollo has never been as aggressive with people as I am, never been as much of an asshole as I am, never called out mods as blatantly and in nearly as condescending a fashion as I have, and I can't recall ever being banned anywhere. He was banned for being a member of the focus group. Then banned again for being a member of a focus group, and with his very realistic assessment of the current landscape in the technology market he would get banned in short order again if he was allowed on ATF again.

I see this simply as a function of the forums being overrun by dim witted petulant child moderators.

(10-10-2017, 08:40 AM)gstanford Wrote: I'm certain I did write AMD and not nvidia.  It would appear that somebody with mod privileges may have tampered with the post.

(10-10-2017, 09:06 PM)gstanford Wrote: Possibly I mixed it up, I doubt it though.  I'm getting old, but I'm not that old.

(10-11-2017, 07:41 AM)gstanford Wrote: Maybe I accidently did.  I don't know how though.  nvidia doesn't exactly spring to mind when discussing corruption, cheating, incompetence, lack of morals.  That's AMD's domain.

(10-11-2017, 05:58 PM)RolloTheGreat Wrote: Have you forgotten that NVIDIA loosed me upon the world and destroyed the integrity of the tech forums, that were always sponsored marketing vehicles anyway?

(10-11-2017, 08:18 PM)gstanford Wrote: I don't think the hobby is dead at all, far from it in fact.  Despite nvidia being dominant in the PC market there has never been a better time to be a PC gamer and console gaming is pretty sweet too and it's keeping AMD's head above water.

(10-11-2017, 09:26 PM)SteelCrysis Wrote:

(10-11-2017, 05:58 PM)RolloTheGreat Wrote: Have you forgotten that NVIDIA loosed me upon the world and destroyed the integrity of the tech forums, that were always sponsored marketing vehicles anyway?

If the forums were "always sponsored marketing vehicles," then how did Nvidia destroy their integrity?

(10-12-2017, 07:50 AM)gstanford Wrote:

(10-11-2017, 10:54 PM)RolloTheGreat Wrote:

(10-11-2017, 08:18 PM)gstanford Wrote: I don't think the hobby is dead at all, far from it in fact.  Despite nvidia being dominant in the PC market there has never been a better time to be a PC gamer and console gaming is pretty sweet too and it's keeping AMD's head above water.

I meant the forum posting hobby, there's nothing to talk about now.

Well if you are an AMD fanboi you can always bitch and whine and cry crocodile tears about how poorly Kepler has aged....

Which is the most ridiculous and retarded argument I've heard in a long time.  Kepler gpu's launched 2012.  They are nearly 5 years old now.

(10-07-2017, 04:57 PM)BenSkywalker Wrote: Revisiting this thread, since you guys were on the topic, I was a bit shocked by the utterly fanatical extremism espoused by SickBeast, so I decided to do a bit of digging. 

First off- with how shockingly poor Ontario is, I can understand how his perspective is skewed. What was actually a bit shocking, was how minute the aid was for people living below that line in Ontario.

$8510 Per year as their max payout? Just to contrast that-

https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2016/05/09/ontarios-poverty-gap-soars-as-welfare-rates-stagnate.html

http://www.politifact.com/rhode-island/statements/2015/feb/01/rhode-island-center-freedom-and-prosperity/do-common-welfare-programs-pay-equivalent-2083-hou/

Peak is close to $40K in total benefits- typical is in the $17K range.

In other words- Ontario is *FAR* to the right of what you call the right wing extremists. 

To give a point of reference-

http://www.masslegalhelp.org/income-benefits/no-children-fs-chart

A family of five can clear $9K just in food stamps in the US.

It seems like the people who don't live here can't begin to come close to grasping how much money we have been throwing at poverty using the ideas they keep championing. They don't work.

Quote:You have absolutely no clue if you really think Ontario or anywhere else in Canada is to the right of anywhere in the USA.

You should know better, heh, you think I'd throw that out there without overwhelming evidence to back me up?

Quote: In Canada we look after our poor much better than you guys in the USA.

Quote:Look at the massive slums you guys have practically everywhere.

Quote:What are the rent subsidies like for poor people in the USA?

Quote:Does affordable housing even exist?

(10-13-2017, 05:34 PM)BenSkywalker Wrote: I won't say I disagree with that, but realize you are framing the discussion in such a manner

Let's go to the OECD numbers why don't we-

http://www.oecd.org/social/expenditure.htm

Canada spends 20% of their net GDP on social spending, the US spends 28.8% of out net GDP on social spending. That means we spend 44% MORE of relative GDP compared to you. That puts us, by *any* metric used, to the left of your. Not a little bit to the left, you are below the OECD average- you'd have to increase social spending by 5% to be *average* - we're second highest in the world.

Let's make sure we are clear on this- the 'alt right extremists' proposed budget changes that would limit the amount of GDP we are spending to roughly equal to where they are at now- 44% MORE then in Canada- and were called lunatic right because they weren't spending enough. What is called the lunatic right in the US is way to the left of where your country is at.

There isn't any way you can debate that. The numbers are in, it isn't arguable.

Now back to your framing- and you really should have framed it differently- you saying you look after your poor better than we do is saying that right wing policy- policy that goes far to the right of the radical right here in the US- works better then what we are doing.

That is precisely what Rollo and I have been saying for years.

What made you change your mind and agree?

Quote:Comparing apples and oranges. Canada has a mere fraction of the USA's population, 35 million, vs. 308 at the last census.

(10-14-2017, 03:40 AM)BenSkywalker Wrote:

Quote:Comparing apples and oranges. Canada has a mere fraction of the USA's population, 35 million, vs. 308 at the last census.

Outside of the number of housing units, the rest of the numbers are based on a percentage of GDP- the total amount of people isn't terribly relevant, it is a matter of how much of your nations output is spent on social programs. We spend a lot more then Canada does on social programs. By any definition we are not just to the left of them on this element, but *far* to the left of them.