Quote:There's been plenty of speculation that AMD's new 7nm third-gen Ryzen processors could come equipped with more than the eight cores the company showed off at its recent CES keynote, and prolific database-detective TUM_APISAK's discovery of a 12-core 24-thread AMD engineering sample in the UserBenchmark database will certainly further the theory.
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The test result lists the 12-core 24-thread engineering sample with a 3.4 GHz base clock and a 3.6 GHz average boost during the test. The 2D3212BGMCWH2_37/34_N product identifier lists the peak boost clock as 3.7 GHz, and the TDP rating as 105W. We're expecting higher turbo speeds from the third-gen Ryzen processors, the current gen tops out at 4.3 GHz, but early silicon typically comes with dialed back frequencies as vendors fine-tune the design. In other words, these results likely aren't representative of the final clock speeds.
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The chips' single-core floating point score is also telling - at 130 points it outstrips a current-gen Ryzen 7 2700X (at roughly the same clocks) by ~13%, an improvement likely born of improved instruction per clock (IPC) throughput. That implies this chip comes with the Zen 2 microarchitecture.

Quote:It's being reported now that ASMedia will develop some, if not all 500-series chipsets, with the exception of X570. The X570 will be an in-house design by AMD, which will use its own foundry partners (likely GloFo 14 nm) to manufacture it. This presents AMD with an opportunity to harden it against vulnerabilities, and have greater control over pricing, not to mention overcoming key design shortfalls of "Promontory," such as downstream PCIe connectivity.
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Sources also mention that ASMedia-supplied chipsets will only hit the market toward the end of 2019, which means AMD X570 could be the only 500-series chipset option between the mid-2019 launch of 3rd generation Ryzen, and late-2019. You should be able to run these processors on older socket AM4 motherboards via BIOS updates, though.

Quote:However, there's just one inconsistency with Digitimes' report: the time frame. The article says ASMedia will not complete the tape-out for PCIe 4.0 until the end of the year. However, the penultimate paragraph claims ASMedia will roll out tape-outs for PCIe 4.0 by the end of of the year.

Quote:AMD revealed at a recent high performance computing event that it is working on new designs that use 3D-stacked DRAM and SRAM on top of its processors to improve performance.
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Norrod explained the challenges with frequency scaling: "The dirty little secret in the industry, though, over the last ten years that has stopped, and may now be regressing[...]As we continually shrink our processes now, we don't get any more frequency, and really with this next node, without doing extraordinary things, we get less frequency."
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Norrod didn't dive into more specifics of any designs under development, but this could prove to be a fundamental shift in AMD's processor design. Intel's fast pace of development with its own 3D Foveros technology could prove to be a defining moment for the industry, so it isn't surprising to hear that AMD is moving in this direction to keep pace. For now, details are under wraps, but we've followed up with AMD for more information.

Quote:Such a major change in AGESA shouldn't be warranted to add support for two new chips based on existing "Raven Ridge" architecture that both AGESA "Summit Ridge" and AGESA PiR (Pinnacle Ridge) series microcodes should be able to comfortably run. We spoke with sources familiar with AMD microcode, who revealed that this AGESA COMBO-AM4 0.0.7.2 is designed for the upcoming "Zen 2" microarchitecture, and its first socket AM4 implementation, codenamed "Matisse." AMD internal versions of AGESA with Matisse support begin with the version sequence 0.0.7.x., and as we head closer to formal launch of these chips, AMD could release a 1.0.0.0 version of "AGESA COMBO-AM4." For our B450 Gaming Pro Carbon AC, the BIOS version packing this new AGESA is v1.60, and we wager this board should now be able to run Ryzen "Matisse" engineering samples. Now, if we can only get our hands on one.

Quote:There have been whispers that AMD had sent out engineering samples to multiple motherboard partners for testing. The rumors could be true, considering motherboard manufacturers including Asus, MSI and Biostar have already started releasing BIOS updates, seemingly in anticipation of the Matisse processors. Asus and MSI specifically mention support for upcoming AMD processors, while Biostar didn't provide any specific details.

Quote:While model names might not give us much insight into what Asus is planning, it is important to note that this list includes one of Asus's highest end motherboards, the Formula, which it has only used for Intel-based boards. Asus bringing it to the Ryzen family implies that AMD's next CPUs are now worthy of the brand, perhaps because Asus believes the processors are truly equal to Intel's 9th generation.

ITX fans will be pleased to see the Impact come to Ryzen, another formerly Intel-only part, especially because Asus only has two ITX Ryzen motherboards, one for X370 and the other for B450. Otherwise, this lineup is what many would expect to see based on Asus's 400-series lineup.

Quote:The unidentified Matisse processor from the leak has the “2DS104BBM4GH2_38/34_N” product identifier. According to Marvin's handy AMD Condename Decoder, the leaked Ryzen 3000-series processor is an engineering sample, and therefore still subject to future changes. So take the initial specifications with a small pinch of salt.

As implied by its codename, this Ryzen 3000-series chip is a desktop processor that allegedly features four cores and eight threads. This configuration highly suggests that the processor in question is probably a entry-level Ryzen 3 part. Curiously, the quad-core, eight-thread setup also contradicts the AdoredTV Leak that purportedly claims that even the low-end Ryzen 3 3000-series models will come with six cores.

The quad-core Ryzen 3000-series processor reportedly runs with a 3.4GHz base clock and 3.8GHz boost clock. It also comes equipped with 4MB of L2 cache and 16MB of L3 cache. This model in particular carries a 65W TDP (thermal design power) badge, which concurs with AdoredTV's 65W allegation for Ryzen 3 3000-series chips.

Quote:It is revealed that Dr. Su will simultaneously launch or unveil at least four product lines. High up the agenda is AMD's highly anticipated 3rd generation Ryzen desktop processors in the socket AM4 package, based on "Zen 2" microarchitecture, and a multi-chip module (MCM) codenamed "Matisse."

Quote:Our buddies over at TechPowerUp took things a step further this morning, bombastically stating that AMD will launch or unveil a new generation of both Ryzen and Radeon processors at the show, with products coming in June. The site doesn't list its sources, but such a statement seems at least plausible given what we've heard in the past. TechPowerUp goes on to specifically state that the site expects AMD to launch or unveil "at least four" new product lines, and suggests EPYC and Instinct as the third and fourth possible reveals—a claim that sounds more dubious to us.

Quote:First, AMD doesn’t have financial room to pull this kind of trick, even if it wanted to.

As of Q4 2018, AMD’s gross margin was 37.84 percent. This represents a significant long-term improvement over the pre-Ryzen era. The company’s actual operating and net profit margins, however, are much lower — in the 5-6 percent range. This useful tool from MacroTrends.net lets you compare all three values; a screenshot of AMD’s most recent results and historical data is shown below:
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Investors have made it clear on conference calls that they want AMD’s margins to come up. AMD itself has identified critical markets that it wants to compete in, including servers, laptops, and the burgeoning AI/deep learning market, which is expected to define and drive computing in the next decade. While its server market share is rising, AMD’s share of the entire AI/DL space seems to be basically nil. The company has done some work with Google and there have been rumors that it built Radeon Instinct as a semi-custom solution for a customer, but, as this extensive machine learning overview from AI expert Tim Dettmers demonstrates, AMD isn’t viewed as a strong competitor by professionals working in this field, at least not right now. He writes: “AMD invests little into their deep learning software and as such one cannot expect that the software gap between Nvidia and AMD will close.”
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Second, AMD has never historically gutted its own product families pricing in the manner these various 7nm rumors anticipate. Prior to the introduction of the Ryzen 7 family, which debuted as high as $500, AMD seized leadership of various markets on two occasions: The introduction of the Athlon 64, and the launch of the Athlon 64 X2. The first re-established AMD’s 64-bit chip as a superior solution in many consumer applications after the Athlon XP had lost that crown. The second gave AMD a serious claim to overall superiority, even in rendering and multi-threaded apps where it had previously lagged the P4 thanks to the latter’s support for Hyper-Threading.

Quote:This normally should mean that any 300-series motherboard must support 4th generation Ryzen processors with a simple BIOS update. Most 300-series motherboards, including from MSI, even ship with USB BIOS Flashback feature to help with forwards compatibility. Unfortunately, motherboard companies such as MSI care more about their bottom-lines than the consumer. In a support e-mail to an X370 XPower Titanium owner, MSI confirmed that it will not extend Zen 2 support to AMD 300-series. Other motherboard vendors could follow MSI's suit as a representative of another motherboard vendor, on condition of anonymity, told TechPowerUp that "Zen 2" processors have steeper electrical requirements that 300-series motherboards don't meet. This is an excuse similar to the one Intel gave for the planned obsolescence of its 100-series and 200-series chipsets, even as it was repeatedly proven that those motherboards can run and overclock 9th generation processors with custom firmware just fine. Would MSI care to explain whether a B450M PRO-M2 has a stronger VRM than an X370 XPower Titanium to warrant "Zen 2" support? Will all "Zen 2" processor SKUs have steep electrical requirements? Will there not be any SKUs with double-digit-Watt TDP ratings?

Quote:AMD "Zen 3" microarchitecture could be designed for the enhanced 7 nm+ EUV (extreme ultraviolet) silicon fabrication node at TSMC, which promises a significant 20 percent increase in transistor densities compared to the 7 nm DUV (deep ultraviolet) node on which its "Zen 2" processors are being built. In addition, the node will also reduce power consumption by up to 10 percent at the same operational load.

Quote:It has come to our attention that MSI Customer Support has regrettably misinformed an MSI customer with regards to potential support for next-gen AMD CPUs on the MSI X370 XPOWER GAMING TITANIUM motherboard. Through this statement we want clarify the current situation.

At this point, we are still performing extensive testing on our existing lineup of 300- and 400-series AM4 motherboards to verify potential compatibility for the next-gen AMD Ryzen CPUs. To be clear: Our intention is to offer maximum compatibility for as many MSI products as possible. Towards the launch of the next-gen AMD CPUs, we will release a compatibility list of MSI AM4 motherboards. Below is a full list of upcoming BIOS versions which include compatibility for the next-gen AMD APUs for our 300-Series and 400-Series AM4 motherboards based on the latest AMD Combo PI version 1.0.0.0. These BIOS versions are expected to be released in May this year.

Quote:AMD Ryzen 3 3200G is an upcoming processor featuring integrated graphics, forming the tail-end of the company's 3rd generation Ryzen desktop processor family. A Chinese PC enthusiast with access to an early sample pictured and de-lidded the processor. We know from older posts that while the "Matisse" MCM will form the bulk of AMD's 3rd gen Ryzen lineup, with core counts ranging all the way from 6 to 12, and possibly 16 later, the APU lineup is rumored to be based on older "Zen+" architecture.

Quote:The Chinese user was greeted with an unpleasant surprise after delidding his first Ryzen 3 3200G sample. Apparently, AMD has decided to solder the IHS onto the company's upcoming Ryzen 3000-series desktop parts. AMD had previously glued the IHS to the Ryzen 2000-series chips with thermal paste, which was likely a move by the US chipmaker to reduce costs. Unaware of AMD's switcharoo, the forum poster had accidentally ripped off half of the processor die in his first attempt to delid the Ryzen 3 3200G. Luckily, he has like eight of these bad boys on hand.

After closely examining the Ryzen 3 3200G and Ryzen 3 2200G, 独月 discovered that the size of the dies between both chips is almost identical. As a matter of fact, even the capacitor is located in the same position. He also confirmed that the Ryzen 3000-series processors share the same core and cache configuration as their predecessors.

独月 confessed that although he's not a very experienced overclocker, the Ryzen 3000-series seemingly overclocks better than the current Ryzen 2000-series. Our guess is that this is probably the work of AMD's Zen+ microarchitecture and 12nm optimizations. Given the small sample size though, it might be too early to draw any concrete conclusions.
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The Ryzen 3 2200G at 4,000MHz and Ryzen 3 3200G at 4,300MHz both hit the 75 degrees Celsius mark at full load. On the other hand, the Ryzen 5 3400G at 4,250MHz only runs one degree Celsius hotter than a Ryzen 5 2400G at 3925MHz. Overall, the results are pretty impressive.

Quote:Biostar's announcement is the official acknowledgment that AMD's X570 motherboards will see the light of day at Computex 2019, which will be held between May 28 and June 1. Biostar was careful not to mention the term X570 or the Ryzen 3000-series in the press release. The motherboard manufacturer's current third-generation Racing AMD motherboards are based on the X470 chipset. Using logical reasoning based on the established naming convention, the fourth-generation of Biostar's motherboards should carry the X570 badge, unless AMD decides to magically release a different chipset between now and then, which is highly unlikely.

Quote:TUM_APISAK, a very well respected leaker in the hardware scene, has tweeted the alleged specifications for AMD's upcoming Ryzen 3000-series 16-core processor, which is based on the Zen 2 processor microarchitecture and 7nm process node. The chip purportedly sports a 3.3 GHz base clock and 4.2 GHz boost clock.

AMD has only officially disclosed an eight-core Ryzen 3000 model, so the big takeaway today is purported confirmation that AMD will indeed offer a 16-core 32-thread chip, as hinted by AMD President and CEO Dr. Lisa Su and listed in the infamous AdoredTV leak.

Quote:The infamous Adored TV leaks that drew the skeleton of AMD's 3rd generation Ryzen roadmap, referenced two desktop Ryzen 9 parts, the Ryzen 9 3800X and Ryzen 9 3850X. The 3800X is supposed to be clocked at 3.90 GHz with 4.70 GHz boost, with a TDP rating of 125W, while the 3850X tops the charts at 4.30 GHz base and a staggering 5.10 GHz boost. The rated TDP has shot up to 135W. We can now imagine why some motherboard vendors are selective with BIOS updates on some of their lower-end boards. AMD is probably maximizing the clock-speed headroom of these chips out of the box, to preempt Intel's "Cannon Lake" 10-core/20-thread processor.

Quote:While the Computex conference, where we expect a formal announcement for AMD’s Zen 2-based Ryzen 3000 series CPUs, is still a few weeks away, today we got our first teaser of an X570-based motherboard, the MEG ACE from MSI. Though few details were shared, the MSI Gaming Twitter account posted a cryptic video of the board with an easter egg or two hinting at what the new generation board is all about.
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Pricing was not mentioned on the unreleased MSI X570 boards, but we do know from previous generations the MEG Ace and Godlike motherboards sit towards the high-end of the product stack. We expect to see the MEG X570 Ace in all its glory as well as other X570 boards unveiled in the coming days and while we're at Computex. Get ready, it looks like Ryzen 3000 is almost here.

Quote:Our resident Ryzen memory guru Yuri "1usmus" Bubliy, author of DRAM Calculator for Ryzen, found technical info that confirms just how much progress AMD has been making.

The third generation Ryzen processors will be able to match their Intel counterparts when it comes to memory overclocking. In the Zen 2 BIOS, the memory frequency options go all the way up to "DDR4-5000", which is a huge increase over the first Ryzens. The DRAM clock is still linked to the Infinity Fabric (IF) clock domain, which means at DDR4-5000, Infinity Fabric would tick at 5000 MHz DDR, too. Since that rate is out of reach for IF, AMD has decided to add a new 1/2 divider mode for their on-chip bus. When enabled, it will run Infinity Fabric at half the DRAM actual clock (eg: 1250 MHz for DDR4-5000).
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1usmus also discovered that the platform adds a SoC OC mode and VDDG voltage control. We've heard from several sources that AMD invested heavily in improving memory compatibility, especially in the wake of Samsung discontinuing its B-die DRAM chips.

Quote:Recently, AMD released a new AGESA update for its motherboard partners' BIOSes, which have been pushed out over the past few days. These new BIOS revisions reveal that AMD has moved on to the second stepping (B0) of its Ryzen 3000 series processors, meaning the company has revised the design and appears to be on track for a release in the coming months.
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ASUS did not update all of its motherboards with this new BIOS, but it did update some boards with the A320, B350, X370, and B450 chipsets, which is a good sign for compatibility, since AMD technically never guaranteed chipset compatibility with future CPUs, just socket compatibility.
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With summer quickly approaching, it seems unlikely AMD will have the time to possibly make a C0 revision before launch, meaning Ryzen 3000 could be arriving sooner rather than later, and with such a small amount of updates, it's possible that development for Matisse has gone smoothly for AMD.

Quote:AMD is giving finishing touches to its Ryzen 3000 "Picasso" family of APUs, and Thai PC enthusiast TUM_APISAK has details on their CPU clock speeds. The Ryzen 3 3200G comes with 3.60 GHz nominal clock-speed and 4.00 GHz maximum Precision Boost frequency; while the Ryzen 5(?) 3400G ships with 3.70 GHz clock speeds along with 4.20 GHz max Precision Boost. The "Picasso" silicon is an optical shrink of the 14 nm "Raven Ridge" silicon to the 12 nm FinFET process at GlobalFoundries, the same one on which AMD builds "Pinnacle Ridge" and "Polaris 30."

Quote:The leaked Ryzen 5 3400G from the SiSoftware was accompanied by the B550A4-EM from German manufacturer Medion. Up to now, there was only talk of the X570 chipset. It's not rare for chipmakers to promote their high-end chipsets first as budget offerings lack the 'wow' factor. However, the budget chipsets are often what drive sales so chipmakers can't neglect that segment of the market either.

Judging by the naming convention, the B550 chipset will probably replace the current B450 chipset. Ryzen 3000-series parts should work fine on the majority of existing AMD AM4 motherboards with the help of a BIOS update. It does arouse our curiosity to see how the B550 chipset will fit into the AMD family. As evidenced by Asus' recent deployment of BIOS updates, some of the budget-friendly weren't on the guest list. Perhaps AMD will start there to push the B550 chipset.

Quote:AMD will be delivering two keynotes: the first, on August 19th, is simply titled "Zen 2", and will therefore deal with the underpinnings of the Zen 2 microarchitecture, which will be pervasive to all of AMD's CPU product lines.
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So, with AMD diving deep into both architectures come August... it's extremely likely the company will have launched both product lines by then.

Quote:EDIT 5/19/19 7:30am PT: We confirmed that a PCIe 4.0 option is available on X470, but reports have surfaced that the option is also available for the budget-oriented B450 motherboards.

Original Story:

Over the last few weeks, motherboard makers have released a steady stream of BIOS updates to support AMD's Ryzen 3000 processors, but Gigabyte's newest BIOS has a special feature: The company has enabled the option for PCIe 4.0 in the BIOS of its X470 Aorus Gaming Wi-Fi 7 motherboard. That signals that, under some circumstances, the company will likely support PCIe 4.0 on existing motherboards if you drop in a new Ryzen 3000 processor.

An alert redditor noticed the new setting in Gigabyte's F40 BIOS, and our motherboard team verified that this option now appears in the Gigabyte BIOS under the PCIe Slot Configuration submenu.

Quote:Update 5/20/19, 9:20am PT: The box for ASRock's Taichi X570 motherboard has also leaked, showing little in the ways of aesthetics or specifications. The box reuses the same "Ryzen 3000 ready" logo we saw on BIOSTAR's boards and is the typical size we'd expect for a high-end motherboard. Given the appearance of retail packaging, it's highly likely the launch for Ryzen 3000 is imminent–perhaps even within the month.

Quote:AMD's forthcoming Ryzen 3000-series processors, codenamed Matisse, will reportedly arrive with support for DDR4-3200 memory modules right out of the gate. This new information comes by the hands of VideoCardz, who got the tip from a motherboard manufacturer, and was later confirmed by prolific leaker momomo_us.
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The big takeway here is that AMD has made tremendous improvements to the IMC (Integrated Memory Controller) inside the Matisse processors. The chips purportedly possess the potential to support memory speeds up to 4,400 MHz and faster. However, we would expect this to be on a chip-to-chip basis since not all processors are made equal, and the IMC will surely vary from one sample to the next.

The leaked specifications also suggest that Matisse chips could only accommodate up to 64GB of DDR4 memory in a dual channel configuration. Now that 32GB DDR4 modules are a thing, we could possibly see that limit pushed to 128GB through a simple BIOS upgrade.

Quote:The world is waiting for AMD's Lisa Su to take the stage here at Computex to update us on the progress of its Ryzen 3000-series processors, and just before the big reveal, chip detective Tum_Apisak has turned up a six-core Ryzen 3000 series model in a Geekbench test result.

The mysterious third-generation Ryzen chip lines up with some of the information shared earlier this year by AdoredTV, which also predicted a 16-core Ryzen model would come to market.

Puget Systems also accidentally revealed that it already has a Ryzen 5 3600 model in-house, but the company has since redacted the statement to remove "possible NDA information" (as you can see in the screenshots above and below).
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The specifications of this processor line up almost exactly with the specifications for the Ryzen 3 3300 leaked by AdoredTV earlier this year, while the Ryzen 5 3600 product name mentioned by Puget Systems is also contained in the information. Puget Systems referred to its "lower end Ryzen 5 3600 models," which also lines up with the listing of a higher-end Ryzen 5 3600X.

On average, the performance of the sample works out to a roughly 13-15% average improvement in IPC (instructions per cycle) over current-gen Ryzen models locked to the same frequency, but any performance comparisons should be taken with a grain of salt. This test result was conducted with memory at a relatively low DDR4-2666, which is surprising as Matisse parts are rumored to come with a strong IMC (integrated memory controller) and support DDR4-3200 memory modules out of the box. The memory latency results from the Geekbench entry are ~5ns higher than a similarly-clocked Ryzen 5 2600. That isn't entirely unexpected with early silicon as chipmakers tune prior to launch.

Quote:AMD fired off the first salvo of its third-gen Ryzen lineup today at Computex 2019 as it revealed five new CPU models that range from Ryzen 5 with six cores and 12-threads for $199 up to a Ryzen 9 3900X with 12 cores and 24 threads for $499. To go with the new processors, which arrive on July 7th (7/7 for 7nm) the company also unveiled its new X570 chipset.
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The real focus here, performance-wise, falls to the Core i9-9900K versus the Ryzen 9 23900X. AMD provided a number of benchmarks, but as with all vendor-provided benchmarks, we should take them with a grain of salt. The chart above is the cumulative scores relative to Intel's Core i7-9700K, which serves as the baseline. That makes the chart a bit tricky to read, but AMD claims that the Ryzen 9 3900X offers a 2% improvement in single-threaded Cinebench performance over the Core i9-9900K and a 60% improvement in the multi-threaded benchmark score. Cinebench isn't representative of real-world results in applications, but these are impressive results nonetheless, especially given the relatively similar price points.
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But at the end of the day, it boils down to performance and price. AMD says the Ryzen 9 3900X offers 14% more single-threaded and 6% more multi-threaded performance in Cinebnech R20 than the -9920X, but with a 60W lower TDP. Intel specs its TDP at base frequency, so it increases demonstrably during boost periods, while AMD measures its power under full load conditions. That means the actual difference in power consumption under load is likely much larger in favor of AMD.

Quote:If you own an AMD 300-series motherboard and are looking to upgrade to Zen 2-based Ryzen 3000 series processors, you have nothing to worry about, as long as your motherboard vendor puts out a BIOS update that adds compatibility (most vendors already have). If you belong to the demographic which has a 1st generation Ryzen "Summit Ridge" processor or Ryzen 2000 "Raven Ridge" APU laying around and looking to buy an AMD X570 motherboard, we have some bad news for you.

AMD X570 apparently only supports 2nd generation Ryzen "Pinnacle Ridge" processors among the previous generations. The chart below indicates compatibility. It says that while AMD 300-series and 400-series chipsets very much do support the latest Ryzen 3000 series processors launched today, the new X570 chipset only supports "Pinnacle Ridge" processors from the previous generation, besides the latest "Matisse" processors (and the upcoming "Picasso" APUs). 400-series chipsets have the best compatibility. They support every AM4 processor launched so far.

Quote:We had the opportunity to sit down with AMD CEO Lisa Su and her team after her Computex 2019 keynote and ask why the new Ryzen processors aren't supported on some of the older motherboards. AMD's Senior Technical Marketing Manager Robert Hallock fielded our question, explaining, "If we look across the ecosystem of motherboards that exist today, we certainly make BIOS updates available to our ecosystem partners to include that on different levels of motherboards in their portfolio, but I don't expect that every motherboard will be updated for 3000 Series processors from our partners. That really will be a portfolio decision from their standpoint as well, as to where they apply those updates, and where they choose not to apply those updates."

Due to the uneven application of BIOS updates across the various vendors, and even among different motherboards in the respective product stacks, you'll have to check the CPU support list for your X370 or B350 motherboard to ensure it supports Third-gen Ryzen.

The problem with backward compatibility boils down to BIOS chip capacity limitations, with AMD's portfolio of Ryzen processors swelling to the point that most BIOS chips do not have enough capacity to store all the microcode and memory training tables for all of the processors.

AMD's goal to support all Ryzen processors on Socket AM4 motherboards until 2020 was audacious, but one the company is proud of, "No one in the history of x86 has created an upgradeable socket quite like AM4. In a time where our competitor is breaking socket compatibility yearly, basically, we have three consecutive generations that all drop into the same socket, and that socket started with four cores years ago, and is now twelve cores, twenty-four threads and PCIe 4.0," said Hallock.

Finally, there are plenty of X470 and B450 motherboards still on the market, but some of the boards that have been in the supply chain for a while will need a BIOS update before you install a Third-gen Ryzen processor. As we've seen in the past, that isn't always possible if you don't already have a Ryzen processor or if the motherboard doesn't have an out-of-band BIOS update feature, like BIOS Flashback. AMD also announced that all motherboards that support Ryzen 3000 processors out of the box will come with a new badge to help simplify things.

Quote:AMD senior technical marketing manager Robert Hallock, responding to a specific question on Twitter, confirmed that the 3rd generation Ryzen processors do feature soldered integrated heatspreaders (IHS). Soldering as an interface material is preferred as it offers better heat transfer between the processor die and the IHS, as opposed to using a fluid TIM such as pastes. "Matisse" will be one of the rare few examples of a multi-chip module with a soldered IHS. The package has two kinds of dies, one or two 7 nm "Zen 2" 8-core CPU chiplets, and one 14 nm I/O Controller die.

The most similar example of such a processor would be Intel's "Clarkdale," which has CPU cores sitting on a 32 nm die, while the I/O control, including memory controller and iGPU, are on a separate 45 nm die. On-package QPI connects the two. Interestingly, Intel used two different sub-IHS interface materials for "Clarkdale." While the CPU die was soldered, a fluid TIM was used for the I/O controller die. It would hence be very interesting to see if AMD solders both kinds of dies under the "Matisse" IHS, or just the CPU chiplets.

Quote:Third-gen Ryzen's support for PCIe 4.0 opens up a new world of faster connectivity, but according to a recent statement from the company, you won't be able to enjoy the faster transfer speeds on older AMD motherboards, taking a bit of the shine of AMD's vaunted backward compatibility with Ryzen processors on the AM4 socket.

At CES 2019, word emerged from motherboard vendors that they could support PCIe 4.0 on older motherboards, like X470, X370, B350, and A320, and AMD confirmed that it would not restrict the faster standard on older motherboards. We've even seen the feature enabled on recent third-gen Ryzen-enabling BIOS updates, but now AMD has reversed the earlier decision:
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It's easy to be disappointed that AMD isn't delivering on its promise of full backward compatibility for the AM4 socket until 2020, but the company has already been forced to drop support for some chips due to BIOS restrictions. The company also isn't supporting third-gen Ryzen on all previous-gen motherboards. That's all part of the challenge of undertaking the monumental task of supporting all Ryzen processors on a single socket. Perhaps AMD representative Robert Hallock's statement to us sums it up best:

Quote:The arrival of AMD's Ryzen 3000 series CPUs brings more multi-threaded heft to the mainstream desktop and sweet new technologies like PCIe 4.0. Unfortunately, according to what we learned in an interview with MSI CEO Charles Chiang and from other vendors at Computex 2019, the platform will also bring higher pricing for the next series of AMD motherboards. As a result, X570 motherboard pricing could be similar to Intel's expensive Z390 motherboards, if not higher. In fact, even the lowest-end X570 boards could cost more than most previous-gen X470 boards, though Chiang stressed that pricing decisions are still not finalized.
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The heightened motherboard pricing also stems from several other factors. Chiang told us that PCIe 4.0, which requires more power, complicates design and requires faster switches, which will "contribute a lot of cost on the motherboard." We already know that, courtesy of PCIe 4.0, AMD's chipset has also increased power consumption to above 10W, which is a big jump from the previous-gen's ~3.5W.

Chiang said that means most X570 motherboards will come with active cooling via a fan, sometimes paired with a heatpipe that extends to the beefier VRM coolers. So far we know of only one announced X570 board with passive chipset cooling, Gigabyte's top-end X570 Aorus Xtreme. Like other vendors we saw at the show, MSI is also beefing up its power circuitry with more phases, which ultimately requires more cooling and adds another layer of cost to the equation.

"So, technology-wise the cost will be higher because of that. And then from the market strategy-wise, AMD also want to put that in higher segmentation. So, it's a situation. You can really expect this motherboard pricing will [have] a lot of gap between the X470s and 570s," Chiang said.

Chiang noted that X470 motherboards will remain in the market and could serve as the value alternative, and when asked how long MSI intends to keep producing them, Chiang responded, "Will X470 stay in the market? It's good question. It depends on the price gap. If the price gap [is] there, people still looking for reasonable pricing, they might go for X470."

Quote:At its "gaming performance for the real world" address in Los Angeles Jon Carvill, VP of marketing, challenged AMD to beat it in real world gaming with its upcoming processors. "So you're going to hear a lot about gaming CPUs this week," he began. "They may or may not come from certain three letter acronyms. That said, here's what I want to challenge you. I want to challenge you to challenge them. If they want this crown come beat us in in real world gaming, real world gaming should be the defining criteria that we use to assess the world's best gaming CPU. I challenge you to challenge anyone that wants to compete for this crown to come meet us in real world gaming. That's the measure that we're going to stand by."

Quote:AMD's per-core performance, which is generally a mixture of IPC and frequency, has improved substantially with the debut of the Zen 2 microarchitecture, and translates to all types of workloads, be they single- or multi-threaded. As measured with a single-threaded Cinebench workload in the chart above, AMD has made tremendous strides in single-threaded performance compared to the first-gen Ryzen models, with up to 21% more per-core performance with the Ryzen 9 3900X.
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AMD has improved memory overclocking substantially, partly due to decoupling the Infinity Fabric from the memory clock. AMD also bumped up the base supported memory frequency from DDR4-2933 to DDR4-3200, but the real advantage comes from heightened memory overclocking potential. AMD's first-gen Ryzen processors had plenty of difficulties with memory overclocking when they first launched, but AMD has addressed those concerns with the second-gen products and even demoed an air-cooled Ryzen platform running at DDR4-5100 at the show.

As with previous-gen Ryzen, memory overclocking confers big performance speedups for gaming. To sidestep the Infinity Fabric's maximum frequency of 2,000 MHz, which effectively constrains memory overclocking, AMD will now allow users to separate the memory and Infinity Fabric clock dependencies. The domains remain tied together at a 1:1 ratio up to DDR4-3733, but run at a 2:1 ratio beyond that transfer rate. This setting, which is user-adjustable in the BIOS, improves memory bandwidth but comes with a latency penalty.
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AMD has worked with Microsoft to deliver one a much needed feature: A Ryzen-aware scheduler. The new scheduler arrives with the Windows 10 May update and will benefit both current-gen and previous-gen multi-die Ryzen models (Threadripper and Ryzen 3000 processors).

The new scheduler pins active threads in cores that have localized data, thus improving performance. AMD also introduced its CPPC2 feature, which is a software feature that manipulates Ryzen 3000's power states from within the operating system. AMD says this will reduce power state transition latency from 30ns to 1ns, which will ultimately save power.

Quote:AMD CEO Lisa Su recently announced the company's new Ryzen 3000 series lineup at Computex 2019, but left out one official announcement for its Next Horizon Gaming Tech Day here in Los Angeles: The 16-core 32-thread Ryzen 9 3950X for $749. This new processor will land on shelves in September. We have more coverage of the Zen 2 microarchitecture and X570 chipset here.
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AMD's 105W TDP rating is also an important consideration. AMD and Intel spec their TDP ratings differently, with the Intel measuring TDP at base clock frequencies, which often leads to an understated number due to much higher power consumption when the processor is in high power states, while AMD uses what is arguably a clearer metric that consists of full utilization of the chip in its dynamic range. In short, this means that the Ryzen 9 3950X should be an incredibly power-efficient chip, so cooling should be a relatively simple task and there should be plenty of headroom for overclocking the soldered chip.

Quote:A reliable source based in Taiwan shared with us the price-list of upcoming AMD Ryzen 3000 X570 chipset motherboards by leading manufacturer ASUS. These MSRP prices in U.S. Dollars paint a grim picture of these boards being significantly pricier than previous-generation motherboards based on the AMD X470 chipset. We already got hints of AMD X570 motherboards being pricey when MSI CEO Charles Chiang, who is known for not mincing his words in public, made it clear that the industry is no longer seeing AMD as a value-alternative second-fiddle brand to Intel, and that AMD will use its performance leadership to command premium pricing for these motherboards, even though across generations, pricing of AMD processors are going to remain flat. The Ryzen 7 3700X, for example, is launching at exactly the same $329 launch price as the Ryzen 7 2700X.

Even MSI CEO Chiang's statement couldn't prepare us for the prices we're seeing for the ASUS motherboard lineup. The cheapest AMD X570 motherboard from ASUS is the Prime X570-P, which is priced at USD $159.99. Its slightly bolstered twin, the TUF Gaming X570-Plus will go for $169.99. A variant of this exact board with integrated Wi-Fi 6 will be priced at $184.99. This is where things get crazy. The Prime X570-Pro, which is the spiritual-successor of the $150 Prime X470-Pro, will command a whopping $249.99 price-tag, or a $100 (66 percent) increase! The cheapest ROG (Republic of Gamers) product, the ROG Strix X570-F Gaming, will ship with an HEDT-like $299.99 price. This is where the supposed "high-end" segment begins.

The ROG Strix X570-E Gaming is a slightly spruced-up Strix-F, with a handful more connectivity options, and an extra M.2 slot. This board will be priced at $329.99. And we're still with the "tier-two" ROG Strix family. The ROG Crosshair VIII Hero is what you'd want for the premium ROG experience, and a premium CPU VRM solution. This board is priced at $359.99, over $100 more than the Crosshair VII Hero. Need Wi-Fi? Pull out another Jackson for the $379.99 ROG Crosshair VIII Hero Wi-Fi, which comes with 802.11ax WLAN.
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To most PC buyers, though, there are alternatives within AMD. As we mentioned earlier, processor pricing over generations hasn't increased. The 3700X is priced on par with the launch price of the 2700X it succeeds, and the Ryzen 5 3600 is being launched at the same $199 as the Ryzen 5 2600. You can very much do pair these processors with motherboards based on the older AMD X470 and B450 chipset motherboards, which are stocked up plenty in the market, are priced reasonably, and a majority of models support the USB BIOS Flashback feature, letting you update their UEFI firmware to the latest versions that add 3rd generation Ryzen support, without needing to borrow an older Ryzen chip from a friend. You lose out on PCI-Express gen 4.0 and additional M.2 slots, but that's a compromise you'll have to make. Consider the low-power 400-series chipsets not needing fan-heatsinks to be a sweetener.

Quote:AMD in its technical brief revealed that its Zen 2 microarchitecture has hardware mitigation against the Spectre V4 speculative store bypass vulnerability. The current generation "Zen" and "Zen+" microarchitectures have OS-level mitigation. A hardware mitigation typically has less of a performance overhead than a software mitigation deployed at the OS or firmware level. In addition, just like older generations of "Zen," the new "Zen 2" microarchitecture is inherently immune to Meltdown, Foreshadow, Spectre V3a, Lazy FPU, Spoiler, and the recently discovered MDS vulnerability. In comparison, the 9th generation Core "Coffee Lake Refresh" processors still rely on software or microcode-level mitigation for Spectre V4, Spectre V3a, MDS, and RIDL.

Quote:A PC said to be using the yet to be released 16-core, 32-thread AMD Ryzen 9 3950X CPU appears to beat the 18-core, 36-thread Intel Core i9-9980XE in multi-core performance in a leaked Geekbench test result. The AMD CPU's 61,072 score is the highest we’ve ever seen from a consumer CPU.
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The results show the AMD chip besting the Intel one in single-core score (5,868 vs. 5,395). But it's the 3950X's multi-core score that's especially impressive, with a 31% advantage over the i9-9980XE, which scores (on average) only 46,618 points, according to Geekbench.

Granted, we don’t know the full story here and under which conditions the AMD CPU was tested. Geekbench shows the chip as having a 3.3 GHz base clock speed and a 4.3 GHz turbo clock speed, which may point to this chip being an engineering sample. That means that the Ryzen 9 3950X could show even better performance in the fall, as AMD advertised a 3.5-GHz base clock speed and a 4.7-GHz boosted clock speed for the chip.

Current Geekbench results put the Intel Core i9- 9900K above the AMD 3950X in single-thread performance (6,209 vs. 5,868), but if the AMD chip truly ran at 4.3 GHz turbo clock speed in the test, then it could reach around 6,400 points in the fall at 4.7 GHz.
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Apparently, AMD adidn’t test the new chip on the latest Windows 10 1903, which brings a new scheduler that better handles the intercommunication between the Ryzen CPU Core Complexes (CCXs). Some users have claimed it has increased their CPU’s performance by over 10%, although it’s likely that some use will see a much bigger improvement than others.

The new benchmark results, if they are to be believed, seem to put AMD in an even better position against Intel’s highest-end consumer chips. However, we won’t know for sure until we see do our own testing this fall. If AMD’s 3950X can deliver anywhere close to the same performance as the i9-9980XE, the AMD chip could be a no-brainer for the budget-conscious looking for performance in this range.

Quote:One possible option would be to wait for affordable variants of AMD's 500-series chipsets, which are sourced from ASMedia.

According to DigiTimes, ASMedia will tape out its next-generation AMD-platform chipset silicon, and is on track to shipping its new chipsets to motherboard manufacturers by Q4-2019. This would pin availability of the first motherboards based on these chipsets to at least Q1 2020. These chipsets not only feature PCI-Express gen 4.0 downstream lanes, but also boards based on these will be built to AMD's PCB requirements for the new platform, enabling a PCI-Express 4.0 x16 slot for discrete graphics, and revised CPU VRM and memory wiring specifications that improve overclocking over the previous generation platform. For now there are two SKUs in the works, the B550, which succeeds the B450, and the A520, succeeding the A320.