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+--- Thread: Greedy Employers Retaliate Against Minimum Wage Increase (/showthread.php?tid=1284)
Greedy Employers Retaliate Against Minimum Wage Increase - SteelCrysis - 06-08-2016
http://freebeacon.com/issues/nearly-half-d-c-employers-said-lay-off-employees-due-minimum-wage-hike/
They are violating their employee’s civil right to employment, all in the name of protecting their precious profit margins. They need to be forced to rehire every single one of those laid-off employees–at gunpoint and with their families at gunpoint if necessary.
It’s not a coincidence that instead of cutting the hours of "overpaid" employees to compensate and have the same overhead as before, or sacrificing from their own salary or profit margin, people against minimum wage increases always want to fire employees and make more profit. Of course, straw man unworthy employees always exist for their straw man arguments, and are always described in terms like "unskilled" and "overpaid" that at best reek of Marxian class (BTW, I'm not a Marxist), and at worst are subtle bigotry. Minimum wage increases do not cause job loss: greedy employers looking for any excuse to cut their overhead, screw their remaining employees out of overtime pay, and boost their profit margins cause job loss.
RE: Greedy Employers Retaliate Against Minimum Wage Increase - SteelCrysis - 06-08-2016
And before anyone whines about the "mom and pop shops,"
"Some folks are in the mom and pop shops,
Lord, don't they screw their employees, oh,
But when the minimum wage hike arrives,
Lord, the shops look like ghettos, yes."
RE: Greedy Employers Retaliate Against Minimum Wage Increase - RolloTheGreat - 06-08-2016
I've got news SteelCrysis:
Average Subway sub shop franchise owner makes $80-$120K a year. (And had to invest $170- $250K to open)
Let's say they have the equivalent of five full time employees and this averages out to paying each $5/hour more, $1000/week more in labor cost.
Subtract that $52,000 from $80 - $120,000 per year and now the average wage of Subway owners is $28K-$68K.
Who the FUCK is going to invest $200,000, take on the hassle of low end employees, to earn $30-$70K a year?
The "$15 is fair" knuckleheads aren't realizing:
A. Money has to come from somewhere, and it's probably not the guy who has a choice.
B. Public might not want to pay $10/sub
C. Lots of skilled employees making $40-$50K might rightly say "WTF? These guys make $30K to slap ham on bread and mop floors. My skillset should be worth more than $10K over that!"
D. Even if they made minimum $60K a year, prices would rise accordingly with supply of money and the $60K would be worth what $25K is now. (their rents and cost of locally provided services would rise)
RE: Greedy Employers Retaliate Against Minimum Wage Increase - SteelCrysis - 06-08-2016
Point taken. Then it's time for basic income or negative income tax.
Edit: On second thought, aside from greed, what is stopping McDonald's itself from simply reducing its profit margin slightly to compensate for the increase? Or reducing executive bonuses to compensate for the increase?
RE: Greedy Employers Retaliate Against Minimum Wage Increase - RolloTheGreat - 06-09-2016
(06-08-2016, 11:25 PM)SteelCrysis Wrote: Point taken. Then it's time for basic income or negative income tax.
Edit: On second thought, aside from greed, what is stopping McDonald's itself from simply reducing its profit margin slightly to compensate for the increase? Or reducing executive bonuses to compensate for the increase?
Here's the problem, IMO.
These jobs were never meant to be breadwinner careers. They were meant for A. People who are studying in HS or college B. Old folks supplementing retirement C. Young people who haven't decided what to do yet.
There's no skill, just be alive and do some tasks most 8 year olds could handle with a day of training.
USED to be people who had low IQ, low motivation, low education could go to work at factories and make a living wage and insurance for their family, get some kind of retirement.
Now those jobs are gone post trade agreements and all those people have been shifted to retail and food, and they're seeing how F'd a person is trying to live on these marginal jobs.
We are basically taxed now to pay for them- lots of working poor on Obamacare, foodstamps, assisted living.
I don't like the current system because I see it as a socialist death spiral.
I think the assistance should be routed through industry and as supplement to low end manufacturing jobs because those support more people upline than the owner of the Subway or the flower shop. (and the people upline at McDs or Wally World don't need support)
A low skill guy making socks supports marketers, accountants, managers, admin staff, etc. with the profit on the socks he makes.
My $.02.
Short version: I like those guys and want them to have living wage jobs, just living wage jobs that strengthen the economy rather than ride it into the dirt.
RE: Greedy Employers Retaliate Against Minimum Wage Increase - dmcowen674 - 06-09-2016
(06-08-2016, 11:22 PM)RolloTheGreat Wrote: I've got news SteelCrysis:
Average Subway sub shop franchise owner makes $80-$120K a year. (And had to invest $170- $250K to open)
Let's say they have the equivalent of five full time employees and this averages out to paying each $5/hour more, $1000/week more in labor cost.
Subtract that $52,000 from $80 - $120,000 per year and now the average wage of Subway owners is $28K-$68K.
Who the FUCK is going to invest $200,000, take on the hassle of low end employees, to earn $30-$70K a year?
The "$15 is fair" knuckleheads aren't realizing:
A. Money has to come from somewhere, and it's probably not the guy who has a choice.
B. Public might not want to pay $10/sub
C. Lots of skilled employees making $40-$50K might rightly say "WTF? These guys make $30K to slap ham on bread and mop floors. My skillset should be worth more than $10K over that!"
D. Even if they made minimum $60K a year, prices would rise accordingly with supply of money and the $60K would be worth what $25K is now. (their rents and cost of locally provided services would rise)
Business has brought this Wrath upon themselves by keeping minimum wage down at $7 for what nearly 20 years?
Come on
RE: Greedy Employers Retaliate Against Minimum Wage Increase - RolloTheGreat - 06-09-2016
(06-09-2016, 04:45 AM)dmcowen674 Wrote: Business has brought this Wrath upon themselves by keeping minimum wage down at $7 for what nearly 20 years?
Come on
No, you "come on".
Link me to something that says a Subway owner makes big bucks and can afford to pay another $50K a year in wages.
Guys making $100K a year shouldn't be forced to make $50K so slobs that slap ham on bread can make $30K? AFTER investing $200K and creating the place for the slobs to work?
I've got news for you:
I could open a Subway if I wanted to. I'd chop off my junk and eat it raw on a bun before I'd spend $200K for the "privilege" of making $50K a year to baby sit HS kids and stoners.
I can keep my money invested and get a 40 hour a week job and do better than that.
If this becomes nationwide you will see:
A. Inflation
B. Mom n Pop businesses close
C. Higher prices at places that pay minimum wage
Small business owners shouldn't have to foot the bill for decisions politicians and big business made.
Nobody is forced to work for $7/hour, they should learn some skill if they want more.
RE: Greedy Employers Retaliate Against Minimum Wage Increase - SickBeast - 06-09-2016
$7/hour is too low. The problem is that it pays more for people to live off the system with welfare compared to working minimum wage jobs. I know people that get about $2000/month from the government here and their rent is paid for as well. There is no way they could make that much earning minimum wage, plus now they don't have to work and they get everything for free. There has to be a balance. In Canada minimum wage is generally around $10CAD/hour.
RE: Greedy Employers Retaliate Against Minimum Wage Increase - RolloTheGreat - 06-09-2016
I will say this though:
When we get to retirement age I could see spending $200K to open a Subway even if it shucked off $50K a year because I had to pay ham slappers $30K.
That would be a cool way to reinvest pension or 401K investments to diversify.
Rollo, King of Ham
RE: Greedy Employers Retaliate Against Minimum Wage Increase - RolloTheGreat - 06-09-2016
"Friend SickBeast, would you like extra lettuce on your Subway Melt? Some pickles or olives? We strive to make your dining experience perfect!"
RE: Greedy Employers Retaliate Against Minimum Wage Increase - happy medium - 06-09-2016
minimum wage here is 7.35$ per hour, they are asking for 15$, they may get 10$ an hour when all is said and done.
If fast food workers were paid 15$ an hour , the next day I would ask my boss for at least an extra 4$ per hour.
What I'm saying is mabe shit would roll up hill.
Bad part is, prices would eventually catch up to the higher wages and we would be paying 3.50$ for a loaf of bread. It would all even out in the long run.
RE: Greedy Employers Retaliate Against Minimum Wage Increase - RolloTheGreat - 06-09-2016
(06-09-2016, 06:10 AM)happy medium Wrote: minimum wage here is 7.35$ per hour, they are asking for 15$, they may get 10$ an hour when all is said and done.
If fast food workers were paid 15$ an hour , the next day I would ask my boss for at least an extra 4$ per hour.
What I'm saying is mabe shit would roll up hill.
Bad part is, prices would eventually catch up to the higher wages and we would be paying 3.50$ for a loaf of bread. It would all even out in the long run.
A man who understands cost push inflation....
RE: Greedy Employers Retaliate Against Minimum Wage Increase - RolloTheGreat - 06-09-2016
(06-09-2016, 06:10 AM)happy medium Wrote: minimum wage here is 7.35$ per hour, they are asking for 15$, they may get 10$ an hour when all is said and done.
If fast food workers were paid 15$ an hour , the next day I would ask my boss for at least an extra 4$ per hour.
What I'm saying is mabe shit would roll up hill.
Bad part is, prices would eventually catch up to the higher wages and we would be paying 3.50$ for a loaf of bread. It would all even out in the long run.
Or perhaps "demand pull" inflation as more buyers bring about scarcity.
Any way you cut it, raising cost of labor to producers and supply of money to buyers IS NOT going to result in prices stay the same and business owners take it in the ass as the new $30K Lords play "You Sexy Thing" by Hot Chocolate on their imitation ipods and smoke a Swisher Sweet.
RE: Greedy Employers Retaliate Against Minimum Wage Increase - BoFox - 06-09-2016
At any rate, an increase in the base minimum wage a bit over-due, when looking at historic increases over the past decades.
Why care so much about the Subway franchise owner making $150K per year, when he could just as well still make $100K per year, while the workers making your precious sandwiches could actually manage the cost of living a bit better without being screwed so badly?
It's like tipping the waitress 20-30% when you could get away with tipping only 10%... do you really care about the "marginal job" worker?
I'd rather support the poor than support the cause of greater income inequality (which is why I tip more than the "satisfactory 15% rule")... and I wouldn't care about supporting the restaurant manager unless I KNOW that the manager isn't making so much off of me. If I know that the manager is doing so much keeping the restaurant in business while providing food at such low prices, then I'd go through the trouble to tip the manager as well (and buy extra stuff like appetizers, desserts, extra drinks, etc..).
Otherwise, keeping the minimum wage at the old minimum isn't doing the waitress or the Subway sandwich maker any good (at least in the immediate term, that is.) Sure, more and more jobs will be replaced by automated robots doing the same work, but robots are projected to replace the workforce at such a high rate within the next 15 years or so - that there might be a bright side to it.
The bright side (if you could see it as "bright") is that it would just push companies to replace menial workers with robots at an accelerated pace. Then there would be less of us doing semi-mindless jobs.
Dis da future!
RE: Greedy Employers Retaliate Against Minimum Wage Increase - RolloTheGreat - 06-09-2016
BoFox:
https://startupnation.com/community/viewtopic.php?t=8830
Quote:If you have a store that is merely average you should profit in the ballpark of $80k/yr.
From a guy who owns 3 Subways.
https://www.quora.com/How-much-does-the-average-Subway-owner-net
Quote:The average store in the US does a little shy of $8,000/week. So for easy round numbers lets say the average store does $400k/year. It is relatively easy to pull 20% profit if you keep an eye on the business. I averaged 22.63% for the first quarter this year and I was in my stores an average of 10 hours or less per week so 20% is not that hard.
I don't consider families with $80k income "wealthy" or think they can spare $50K.
YOU probably make around $150K based on what you have said here, how would it work out for you if your family lost $50K of income due to a new law?
RE: Greedy Employers Retaliate Against Minimum Wage Increase - RolloTheGreat - 06-09-2016
Dave,
Lets say a relative with some cash leaves you $200K so you buy a Subway, start paying some goofs $8-$10/hour, and start making $80-$90K.
"Yay Debbie! We've made it to the legit middle class, let's buy a modest home and a Camry".
Ruh roh.
Here comes Obama, makes the minimum wage $15 and now you make $30-$40K and your $200K is gone.
You seriously think this is "fair" or "desirable"?
RE: Greedy Employers Retaliate Against Minimum Wage Increase - dmcowen674 - 06-10-2016
A Fast Food service is not a highly skilled operation.
Anyone expecting to make it to the big leagues with that Industry is delusional.
RE: Greedy Employers Retaliate Against Minimum Wage Increase - RolloTheGreat - 06-10-2016
(06-10-2016, 02:15 AM)dmcowen674 Wrote: A Fast Food service is not a highly skilled operation.
Anyone expecting to make it to the big leagues with that Industry is delusional.
It's hard to disagree when you put it in terms of small business, isn't it? Places like McDs or Wally World probably "could" afford to pay the $15/hour, but most businesses don't do the volume of McDs and Wally World.
If this law passes, know where you'll eat and shop?
McDs and Wally World.
I like the system better as is, lots of low pay survival level jobs vs concentrated living wage jobs.
McDs is the LAST place I want to eat.
True story: My son at 13 had never eaten at Olive Garden, but loved Italian food that he'd had prepared by real Italian people in mom and pop restaurants.
One night my wife was out with coworkers and I had to feed him, he suggested Olive Garden because his friends had been telling them it was their favorite. On the way there he said he can't wait to try their breadsticks, and spoke of the other culinary delights he'd heard of.
When he ate the food, he was very disappointed. "These breadsticks are like we have at home!", "This soup is OK", "This pasta is average at best".
I told him this is the way of chain restaurants in mall parking lots- homogenized, bland food made to appeal to the customer on a budget, short on time.
He was disillusioned.
I like mom and pop businesses, even if the jobs there don't pay well.
RE: Greedy Employers Retaliate Against Minimum Wage Increase - happy medium - 06-10-2016
just out of curiosity, what do you guys consider lower, middle, high class to be in terms of money made a year? Total family/ household income? I guess it would depend on where you live, how many kids you have, your taxes and other things related to cost of living but in general lets hear you opinions.
I don't worry about money much class 400k+
high class = 250k+
upper middle class = ~170k
happy medium class
middle = ~100k
lower middle = ~80k
lower class = ~ 50k
poverty class = under 40k
Just a rough estimate, off the top of my head and a suggestion by sickbeast.
RE: Greedy Employers Retaliate Against Minimum Wage Increase - SickBeast - 06-10-2016
Yeah I agree with those figures, happy medium. I would call "high class" "upper middle class" instead though. High class is $300K+ IMO.
RE: Greedy Employers Retaliate Against Minimum Wage Increase - RolloTheGreat - 06-11-2016
I think the top 10% for US households is around $156K. You can see in a lot of cities $160K puts you in the top 10%.
http://www.businessinsider.com/income-required-to-be-in-the-top-10-2015-10
Cost of living in area has a lot to do with what people make, but statistically speaking, what you guys are calling upper middle class amounts to very few homes.
Where I live I'd call middle class $70- $110K for a family of four and statistics agree.
RE: Greedy Employers Retaliate Against Minimum Wage Increase - BoFox - 06-11-2016
(06-09-2016, 05:33 PM)RolloTheGreat Wrote: BoFox:
https://startupnation.com/community/viewtopic.php?t=8830
Quote:If you have a store that is merely average you should profit in the ballpark of $80k/yr.
From a guy who owns 3 Subways.
https://www.quora.com/How-much-does-the-average-Subway-owner-net
Quote:The average store in the US does a little shy of $8,000/week. So for easy round numbers lets say the average store does $400k/year. It is relatively easy to pull 20% profit if you keep an eye on the business. I averaged 22.63% for the first quarter this year and I was in my stores an average of 10 hours or less per week so 20% is not that hard.
I don't consider families with $80k income "wealthy" or think they can spare $50K.
YOU probably make around $150K based on what you have said here, how would it work out for you if your family lost $50K of income due to a new law?
Only $150K?!? I'm really offended, Rollo. Just kidding.
Ok, ok, that guy has 3 stores, puts 10 hours OR LESS each week into each store, and still pulls 22-23% profit from these stores. That's not even a full-time job. I don't think he even bothered to help make sandwiches for us.
Anyway, point is, 20% profit is "relatively easy" as he put it. If he worked "harder" (while owning only 1 shop, and full time, that is), he could likely pull 30% profit, no problem. 30% of $400K is $120K. That's considerably more than the $90K that he made from each of the 3 stores, with only 10 hours put into each per week.
That alone already puts him in the top 10% income class in most places in the USA, with just 1 store rather than 3.
I'd rather see him be in the top 30%, so that 3-4 other workers could be in the bottom 40%, rather than him alone be in the top 10% along with his own workers being in the bottom 20%. Such a lazy manager working only 30 hours a week, managing 3 shops (pulling $271,000 profit in a year)... jeez, I think that his job is true to his own description, "easy". If he weren't born with a silver spoon in his mouth, able to afford buying a Subway franchise (how else could minimum wage workers EVER, EVER, EVER afford such an investment in the first place?), he wouldn't be calling his career "easy" while rallying to keep minimum wages down.
Nonetheless, I can't wait for robots to replace at least 80% of all routine "robotic" work that human beings are doing nowadays. It has been happening for several decades in a way, like with machinery and automated things making cars or donuts for us, but the real revolution still has not yet dawned upon us.
RE: Greedy Employers Retaliate Against Minimum Wage Increase - BoFox - 06-11-2016
(06-10-2016, 06:05 PM)happy medium Wrote: just out of curiosity, what do you guys consider lower, middle, high class to be in terms of money made a year? Total family/ household income? I guess it would depend on where you live, how many kids you have, your taxes and other things related to cost of living but in general lets hear you opinions.
I don't worry about money much class 400k+
high class = 250k+
upper middle class = ~170k
happy medium class
middle = ~100k
lower middle = ~80k
lower class = ~ 50k
poverty class = under 40k
Just a rough estimate, off the top of my head and a suggestion by sickbeast.
Truly rich: $5+ million net worth (as long as the income or asset appreciation maintains this)
"I don't worry about money much class" depends on so many other things in addition to income salary - many "barely-millionaires" still worry while not feeling like "millionaires" at all.
Comfortable upper class: 300K+ (My Dad maintained this income for over a decade until he sold off his business - yet, he's barely "comfortable" - more like "secure")
I agree with the rest - for cities like Philly, certainly! Yet, if it's a single guy with nothing to spend $ on but on himself, $100K could still make him more than HAPPY MEDIUM!
P.S. - just because my Dad made up to $600+K per year doesn't mean that I have a silver spoon in my mouth. He never really supported me, except for a few travel expenses to college (but NOT for college tuition) way back before he made more than $120K. So, I don't really feel like I was silver-spooned compared to other guys who had a gold spoon to play around with to boot. These guys have a hard time understanding how fortunate they are, when taking certain things for granted. They think that they worked so hard, that they took huge risks investing such and such, and therefore should earn billions of dollars for their efforts, while everybody else become their own slaves or servants earning a few pennies a hour. The "screw the American minimum wage, move all the jobs overseas" mentality is still running rampant among the unappreciative business owners who have this sadistic fantasy that the minimum wage should somehow stay the same for the rest of their lives.
RE: Greedy Employers Retaliate Against Minimum Wage Increase - BoFox - 06-12-2016
Hey guys, sorry I was having a bad day, after a guy had a road rage incident with me and ran into me, but then told the police officer that I was the "at fault" driver. It was so hard for me to convince the cop that I was NOT the at-fault driver, but finally after appealing with more details and evidence she is including my side of the story. My lesson learned: don't let the guy think I'm racing with him. The accident wasn't too bad anyway.
RE: Greedy Employers Retaliate Against Minimum Wage Increase - BoFox - 06-12-2016
Yo Happy Medium - the reason why I said $5 million for truly rich is because my grandfather-in-law had around $5 million worth of assets back in the 60's-70's when he was building homes and apartments in Chicago and Florida.. but then after he retired early, his assets dwindled. He did live a modest life, like as if he had an income of only $100K or so. As he got really old, he really didn't seem rich in any way at all - the gifts that he gave out at Xmas were worth a few bucks on average, lol.
For me, the "I don't worry about money much class" would be fitting if I could just buy a $2 million home (even if just mortgage rather than with cash) without having to sell anything first. That's just my own bar that I've set for myself, lol... but I doubt I'd ever get there in this lifetime unless I win the lottery.
to all of these Beverly Hillbillies all over Hollywood! 
RE: Greedy Employers Retaliate Against Minimum Wage Increase - SickBeast - 06-13-2016
(06-12-2016, 05:22 PM)BoFox Wrote: Hey guys, sorry I was having a bad day, after a guy had a road rage incident with me and ran into me, but then told the police officer that I was the "at fault" driver. It was so hard for me to convince the cop that I was NOT the at-fault driver, but finally after appealing with more details and evidence she is including my side of the story. My lesson learned: don't let the guy think I'm racing with him. The accident wasn't too bad anyway.
Ugh! There's a lot of road rage where I live as well. People are crazy. Actually yesterday I was leaving the grocery store with my family and the woman in the car next to me was getting into her vehicle, so I waited for her to get in before backing out. Then her boyfriend just started backing out first, cutting me off! I said to my wife "How rude is that? I let the woman get in her car and then they backed out right in front of us!". I didn't realize that my windows were down and they heard me in the other car. I got a real earful from my wife because she was worried that they would do something. Actually they stopped their car and let us out first when I said that so I hope I made my point actually.
I'm getting my dashcam set up this summer and I advise you to do the same.
RE: Greedy Employers Retaliate Against Minimum Wage Increase - BoFox - 06-13-2016
(06-13-2016, 06:31 AM)SickBeast Wrote:(06-12-2016, 05:22 PM)BoFox Wrote: Hey guys, sorry I was having a bad day, after a guy had a road rage incident with me and ran into me, but then told the police officer that I was the "at fault" driver. It was so hard for me to convince the cop that I was NOT the at-fault driver, but finally after appealing with more details and evidence she is including my side of the story. My lesson learned: don't let the guy think I'm racing with him. The accident wasn't too bad anyway.
Ugh! There's a lot of road rage where I live as well. People are crazy. Actually yesterday I was leaving the grocery store with my family and the woman in the car next to me was getting into her vehicle, so I waited for her to get in before backing out. Then her boyfriend just started backing out first, cutting me off! I said to my wife "How rude is that? I let the woman get in her car and then they backed out right in front of us!". I didn't realize that my windows were down and they heard me in the other car. I got a real earful from my wife because she was worried that they would do something. Actually they stopped their car and let us out first when I said that so I hope I made my point actually.
I'm getting my dashcam set up this summer and I advise you to do the same.
Hmmmm... if drivers on the road keep on getting worse with road rage stuff, I might just as well get a dashcam to install in my car.
The city has been growing quite a bit over the years, with the traffic getting somewhat worse, so the road rage incidents have been more frequent around here - there have actually been gunshots related to road rage incidents in the metro area lately!
RE: Greedy Employers Retaliate Against Minimum Wage Increase - BoFox - 06-16-2016
Ah, this reminds me that almost everybody in Russia has a dash cam in their cars! This article explains why (although it's a couple years old):
http://www.wired.com/2013/02/russian-dash-cams/
Dash cams might become mandatory here in America soon:
http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2477347,00.asp
RE: Greedy Employers Retaliate Against Minimum Wage Increase - SickBeast - 06-16-2016
Do it BoFox! You need a dash cam! Everyone should have one IMO!