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AMD has lost their marbles! - RolloTheGreat - 02-26-2017
http://www.babeltechreviews.com/community/showthread.php?tid=731&page=85
Apoppin Wrote:Probably. I haven't nailed down the details yet, but I may be getting all 3 Ryzen CPUs for review. I'll get them the day of the launch, it appears (nothing absolutely certain yet).
I am pretty sure that I will still want to use my Intel CPU for my regular benching. I really doubt that Ryzen will be able to match an i7-6700/7700K at 4.6GHz in most gaming scenarios.
Why would AMD give review samples of ANYTHING to Apoppin?!?!
The guy is a NUT.
He made it his life's work persecuting AMD here and at BabelTechReviews, and now they want to trust him with NDA tech?!
Even when he says they might give him CPUs he says they will likely be worse than intel.
RE: AMD has lost their marbles! - RolloTheGreat - 02-27-2017
(02-27-2017, 07:49 AM)gstanford Wrote:(02-26-2017, 07:36 PM)RolloTheGreat Wrote: http://www.babeltechreviews.com/community/showthread.php?tid=731&page=85
Apoppin Wrote:Probably. I haven't nailed down the details yet, but I may be getting all 3 Ryzen CPUs for review. I'll get them the day of the launch, it appears (nothing absolutely certain yet).
I am pretty sure that I will still want to use my Intel CPU for my regular benching. I really doubt that Ryzen will be able to match an i7-6700/7700K at 4.6GHz in most gaming scenarios.
Why would AMD give review samples of ANYTHING to Apoppin?!?!
The guy is a NUT.
He made it his life's work persecuting AMD here and at BabelTechReviews, and now they want to trust him with NDA tech?!
Even when he says they might give him CPUs he says they will likely be worse than intel.
So reviewers aren't allowed to point out the truth about what they review according to you?! Not allowed to provide criticism?!
They just get to lick the company's arse and say "thank you master!"?!
You are a fucking pathetic joke of a corporate shill if ever there was one! Fuck off and die!
The baby Jesus cries when you tell lies GStan.
The only corporation I have any connection to
is the software firm I've worked for almost 20 years.What is the "truth" GStan?
Apoppin has no RyZen CPUs and he is already saying he doubts they will be as fast as his intel parts, without knowing if they are or are not.
That is not "truth", that is Apoppin continuing his war on AMD, trivializing their achievement.
Which is pretty funny when you think about it. You have some actual tech skills with hardware apparently from working at the service center. I've been working with business software long enough I can work in the industry. What tech skills does Apoppin have? Pretty much anyone can run automated benchmarks and paraphrase press kits. Yet here he is posting FUD about the work of people about as far above him in the tech industry as the clouds are above his head. Actually they're about that far above you and me too.
RE: AMD has lost their marbles! - RolloTheGreat - 02-28-2017
(02-27-2017, 10:02 PM)gstanford Wrote: Well, I won't be getting any Zen AMD CPU's.
Intel i7's are cheap enough and perform well enough. Not to mention they have a far superior motherboard chipset that isn't based off of whatever scraps they could manage to license from ASMEDIA.
I don't care how well AMD engineered Zen, all it takes is for someone to compile their application with ICC (the intel compiler) and AMD's performance is shot to hell thanks to the compiler baking slow code paths in for non intel CPU's.
and if you don't have single thread performance down pat then you have nothing so far as games are concerned.
So you're saying games will be coded to run worse on AMD....when AMD has the MS and Sony consoles?
Riiigghhtt. And I've been shopping for a Yaris too!
Or are you talking production apps? Well, that will always have some faster, some slower based on brand, but I'll wait to see the differences rather than just throwing out FUD like you, SB, Amoppin'.
RE: AMD has lost their marbles! - SteelCrysis - 02-28-2017
(02-27-2017, 10:02 PM)gstanford Wrote: I don't care how well AMD engineered Zen, all it takes is for someone to compile their application with ICC (the intel compiler) and AMD's performance is shot to hell thanks to the compiler baking slow code paths in for non intel CPU's.True. The consumer doesn't know what compiler was used to compile their software.
Quote:and if you don't have single thread performance down pat then you have nothing so far as games are concerned.Also true. 8-core Faildozer and 8-core Piledriver demonstrated that they could only be competitive with Intel with applications that could take advantage of all 8 cores.
RE: AMD has lost their marbles! - googoo24 - 02-28-2017
Well, I'll just say, things aren't looking too good for Intel. I don't think they (or anyone for that matter) anticipated this. The 1800x appears just as fast (if not faster) than the 6900k. Even in single-threaded apps. It is also ridiculously more cheaper. Then there's this":
https://www.techpowerup.com/231038/intel-plays-dirty-over-ryzen-attempts-to-manipulate-ryzen-reviews
Hats off to AMD if they succeed. Very impressive comeback.
I will say, the Intel Fanboy' having melt downs on Wccftech is priceless material. If you all care that is. LOL. I remember when folks didn't even have to bother bashing AMD's product. Their own slides did it for them.
Seems silly to me, though. These folks bickering on Wccftech. Competition breeds better products/prices for everyone.
RE: AMD has lost their marbles! - BenSkywalker - 02-28-2017
Quote:Well, I'll just say, things aren't looking too good for Intel.
Ok, so you are going on record saying that the top end Ryzen will be more then 100% faster than an i5 7600K. That's baseline to be minimal level acceptable to your claims.
https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819117728&cm_re=i5-_-19-117-728-_-Product
That's $240, $10 short of half the price or Ryzen.
That's your value baseline. That is the enthusiast market. If AMD falls short, they should be crucified by everyone using the value logic.
RE: AMD has lost their marbles! - googoo24 - 02-28-2017
(02-28-2017, 09:04 AM)BenSkywalker Wrote:Quote:Well, I'll just say, things aren't looking too good for Intel.
Ok, so you are going on record saying that the top end Ryzen will be more then 100% faster than an i5 7600K. That's baseline to be minimal level acceptable to your claims.
https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819117728&cm_re=i5-_-19-117-728-_-Product
That's $240, $10 short of half the price or Ryzen.
That's your value baseline. That is the enthusiast market. If AMD falls short, they should be crucified by everyone using the value logic.
The 1700 is $329, and, when overclocked (ACCORDING TO LEAKS), gets near 1800x levels.
http://wccftech.com/amd-ryzen-7-1700-overclocked-4ghz/
It's also only 65w (base clocks). Heck, even according to leaks, the 1700x even beats the 7700k in single-threaded and the 6950x in multi-threaded apps. At stock. The 7700k boost up to 4.5hz. The 1700x? Only 3.8
http://wccftech.com/amd-ryzen-7-1700x-6950x-7700k-cpu-benchmarks/
Why the hell would I buy 7600k if I can get that, particularly if it's true? And that's an 8 core I'm referring to. The 6 cores won't even come out until 2nd quarter.
RE: AMD has lost their marbles! - BenSkywalker - 02-28-2017
Quote:The 1700 is $329, and, when overclocked, gets near 1800x levels.
The 7600k(OCd) beats the fastest stock clocked i7 for most things enthusiasts do, and it is still quite a bit cheaper then the prices you are quoting.
Sounding like AMD is releasing an overpriced pig of a chip that can't compete on a value basis the way you are spinning it.
Quote:Heck, even according to leaks, the 1700x beats 7700k in single-threaded and the 6950x in multi-threaded apps. At stock.
30% faster then the 7600K to be EQUAL on a value basis for the benches enthusiasts care about. That is the minimum to not be dealing with humiliation.
This aint spin, it's fucking math.
Quote:Why the hell would I buy 7600k if I can get that, particularly if it's true?
Bare minimum 100% faster for the 1800x and 30% faster for 1700x to EQUAL Intel's value proposition.
You all are sheltered on the other sites, noone is going to stop me from making your fucking spoon fed PR bullshit out for the retarded blathering it is here.
RE: AMD has lost their marbles! - googoo24 - 02-28-2017
I got you bro. You're an Intel fanboy. You can move on to more productive things now. AMD is gonna flop hard. And Intel is now the new value king. LOL. Gotcha.
RE: AMD has lost their marbles! - BenSkywalker - 02-28-2017
Intel fanboy?
Intel is at best a mediocre CPU company that watched the world pass them buy and became a bit player in the major volume markets because of their moronic NIH syndrome that prevented them from owning the entirety of the mobile world.
They cling to a pathetically outdated CPU architecture that only remains viable because they are, by a large margin, the best fabrication company in the world.
They design shit CPUs that don't scale have stagnated the entire industry and have been an embarrassment to the advancement of the entire technology world.
Quote:AMD is gonna flop hard.
I never said that, I expect it to be comparable to the Earth shaking impact that Bulldozer had. The PR you little newsboys are spreading now is the same regurgitated shit it was then.
You talked value, I am quoting math.
Go ahead smart man, refute it. Explain why my comparison isn't valid. "90% of the performance at 50% the price of the i7" is what your fucktard buddies have been spreading all over the internet, ignoring the i5 that is 90% of the performance at 25% of the price. You can go ahead and go back years if you'd like, I never recommend anyone buy that overpriced shit from Intel. I'm not a hypocrite or a moron- in other words, this a bad audience for you.
RE: AMD has lost their marbles! - googoo24 - 02-28-2017
(02-28-2017, 09:33 AM)gstanford Wrote: AMD can't afford Zen to be a real value proposition, it has the daunting task of trying to get the company out of the financial red.
Well, if it's competitive, it doesn't entirely need to be. However, with the 1800x apparently beating its $1000 competitor at nearly half the price. I'd say it's the more valuable prospect for folks who need 8 core super-duper processors, or fools. It's still a best seller with no reviews. Ridiculous. But true.
My 4670k still runs fine and dandy.
RE: AMD has lost their marbles! - googoo24 - 02-28-2017
(02-28-2017, 09:37 AM)BenSkywalker Wrote: I never said that, I expect it to be comparable to the Earth shaking impact that Bulldozer had. The PR you little newsboys are spreading now is the same regurgitated shit it was then.[/color]
I know. Sarcasm. I don't get why you give such a shit, then? LOL. You sound defensive. It's just a standard priced piece of worthless shit, right? Who the hell really needs an 8 core processor? LOL. Why do you care about my "spin" news? Particularly on a site with (maybe) 3-4 regular posters?
I don't get it.
Quote:Go ahead smart man, refute it. Explain why my comparison isn't valid. "90% of the performance at 50% the price of the i7" is what your fucktard buddies have been spreading all over the internet, ignoring the i5 that is 90% of the performance at 25% of the price. You can go ahead and go back years if you'd like, I never recommend anyone buy that overpriced shit from Intel. I'm not a hypocrite or a moron- in other words, this a bad audience for you.
You honestly think I really give a shit about any of this? LMAO. Or, moron enthusiasts for that matter? Most people could still get by on a 3670k. LOL.,
RE: AMD has lost their marbles! - BenSkywalker - 02-28-2017
Quote:I don't get why you give such a shit, then?
AMD has been actively paying money to destroy tech forums with their viral marketing. I enjoyed tech forums for many years until you fucking locusts destroyed them with your shilling. The worst part of it is you people suck at it, badly. Your crew is why the FuryX ended up being a catastrophic failure, your crew is why Bulldozer was considered a major failure, your crew is why Vega is openly mocked by people who follow the industry closely(your viral marketing crew said before Pascal, some were saying a year before Pascal, heh).
So as long as that shit bag company keeps paying people to ruin one of the few hobbies I have I will continue to be openly fucking hostile.
BTW- Have they informed you all of the current way the FTC fines *you* when caught? You may want to look into it, they get off without having to pay, you could be liable for a lot of cash.
RE: AMD has lost their marbles! - googoo24 - 02-28-2017
(02-28-2017, 09:48 AM)BenSkywalker Wrote: AMD has been actively paying money to destroy tech forums with their viral marketing. I enjoyed tech forums for many years until you fucking locusts destroyed them with your shilling. The worst part of it is you people suck at it, badly. Your crew is why the FuryX ended up being a catastrophic failure, your crew is why Bulldozer was considered a major failure, your crew is why Vega is openly mocked by people who follow the industry closely(your viral marketing crew said before Pascal, some were saying a year before Pascal, heh).
So as long as that shit bag company keeps paying people to ruin one of the few hobbies I have I will continue to be openly fucking hostile.
BTW- Have they informed you all of the current way the FTC fines *you* when caught? You may want to look into it, they get off without having to pay, you could be liable for a lot of cash.
Shilling? In that I work for AMD now? I wish they'd cut me a check then, cause the door on my car needs fixin. It's about $2,600. I could give a shit about Ryzen, Kabylake or FTC fines. Shilling on a site with maybe 3-4 regular/infrequent posters ain't putting the meatloaf on the table.
Can you help a fella out, partner?
RE: AMD has lost their marbles! - SteelCrysis - 02-28-2017
(02-28-2017, 08:34 AM)googoo24 Wrote: Well, I'll just say, things aren't looking too good for Intel. I don't think they (or anyone for that matter) anticipated this. The 1800x appears just as fast (if not faster) than the 6900k. Even in single-threaded apps. It is also ridiculously more cheaper. Then there's this":News flash for you: that report originates with SemiAccurate's CharLIE Demerjian, the same person who gave us the "Nvidia wooden screws" lie.
https://www.techpowerup.com/231038/intel-plays-dirty-over-ryzen-attempts-to-manipulate-ryzen-reviews
RE: AMD has lost their marbles! - BenSkywalker - 02-28-2017
Quote:Shilling? In that I work for AMD now? I wish they'd cut me a check then, cause the door on my car needs fixin. It's about $2,600. I could give a shit about Ryzen, Kabylake or FTC fines. Shilling on a site with maybe 3-4 regular/infrequent posters ain't putting the meatloaf on the table.
So you will state that you have never received *ANY* compensation from AMD- including free or reduced pricing on merchandise, for what you do online?
Answering the question directly makes it a clear violation of law if you lie, so if we get you on record stating that is not the case I'll be more civil in my discourse about Ryzen
RE: AMD has lost their marbles! - googoo24 - 02-28-2017
(02-28-2017, 09:56 AM)SteelCrysis Wrote:(02-28-2017, 08:34 AM)googoo24 Wrote: Well, I'll just say, things aren't looking too good for Intel. I don't think they (or anyone for that matter) anticipated this. The 1800x appears just as fast (if not faster) than the 6900k. Even in single-threaded apps. It is also ridiculously more cheaper. Then there's this":News flash for you: that report originates with SemiAccurate's CharLIE Demerjian, the same person who gave us the "Nvidia wooden screws" lie.
https://www.techpowerup.com/231038/intel-plays-dirty-over-ryzen-attempts-to-manipulate-ryzen-reviews
It's been confirmed, apparently:
http://wccftech.com/intel-playing-dirty-undercut-amd-ryzen/
But who cares, it's the norm for most companies. Even the sources said so. I'm sure AMD did the same thing.
Quote:So you will state that you have never received *ANY* compensation from AMD- including free or reduced pricing on merchandise, for what you do online?
Answering the question directly makes it a clear violation of law if you lie, so if we get you on record stating that is not the case I'll be more civil in my discourse about Ryzen
The only reduced pricing I received for any hardware was from superbiiz, newegg or Microcenter. I run a 4670k and gtx 980 superclocked EVGA.
I've never received any shill money, sir. Have I satisfied your inner James Jesus Angleton? Or will torture be required?
RE: AMD has lost their marbles! - SteelCrysis - 02-28-2017
(02-28-2017, 10:11 AM)googoo24 Wrote: It's been confirmed, apparently:Some confirmation. From the update:
http://wccftech.com/intel-playing-dirty-undercut-amd-ryzen/
But who cares, it's the norm for most companies. Even the sources said so. I'm sure AMD did the same thing.
Quote:[UPDATED – Feb 26 2017 7:16 PM ET]
The editors-in-chief of two of America’s top PC hardware and technology publications have confirmed to Wccftech that they have indeed been approached by Intel regarding upcoming Ryzen reviews, although both said that it was business as usual. Affirming that Intel’s response following AMD’s Ryzen announcement was what they had expected it to be, they added that nothing was particularly unusual about the emails they received from Intel.
RE: AMD has lost their marbles! - googoo24 - 02-28-2017
It's like I said. Nothing unusual. It's the norm.
RE: AMD has lost their marbles! - RolloTheGreat - 02-28-2017
I've never
(02-28-2017, 10:02 AM)BenSkywalker Wrote:Quote:Shilling? In that I work for AMD now? I wish they'd cut me a check then, cause the door on my car needs fixin. It's about $2,600. I could give a shit about Ryzen, Kabylake or FTC fines. Shilling on a site with maybe 3-4 regular/infrequent posters ain't putting the meatloaf on the table.
So you will state that you have never received *ANY* compensation from AMD- including free or reduced pricing on merchandise, for what you do online?
Answering the question directly makes it a clear violation of law if you lie, so if we get you on record stating that is not the case I'll be more civil in my discourse about Ryzen
I've never received anything from AMD, except their shills chasing me around the internet and whining to mods to get me banned.
Nonetheless, I'm most impressed by what RyZen appears to be. It will definitely have more impact than Bulldozer, if they have even achieved parity (or close to it) I'd say their engineers are to be commended.
Ben, you've been around since the golden era of pc gaming. When we read Computer Shopper and Computer Gaming World.
Can you seriously tell me you prefer a world where you have no reason to consider anything but intel or NVIDIA?
Personally I miss seeing NexGen, Cyrix, AMD, and intel all competing. Same with 3dfx, NVIDIA, ATi, PowerVR, Rendition, S3, and Matrox.
RE: AMD has lost their marbles! - BenSkywalker - 02-28-2017
Quote:It will definitely have more impact than Bulldozer, if they have even achieved parity (or close to it) I'd say their engineers are to be commended.
I'd say it's more damnation on the part of Intel for sleeping at the wheel for so long, but I'll say if every rumor we have seen is true, it looks like a pretty epic fail for AMD being spun very favorably. Really, the numbers we are seeing thrown around indicate that the top of their line is going to be roughly on par with an i5 in everything outside of Cinebench for twice the money- I'm using their PR BS numbers- how is this good?
Quote:Can you seriously tell me you prefer a world where you have no reason to consider anything but intel or NVIDIA?
nVidia's biggest competition is, and has been for a while now, the parts they have already sold. They need to give us all a reason to upgrade. A lot of people like to make it out like it's a real competition, but we know it isn't. My wife needs to keep a tab on me whenever I build a new rig, I'll just drop $10K for nominal differences, and she know how to read benchmark charts, but she doesn't bat an eye at paying an extra $100 for nVidia- in fact she would be considered far more of a fanboy then me but not because she likes nVidia, it's because she *hates* how shitty AMD video cards are(their drivers really, but she isn't that much of a geek). That is a reputation AMD built for themselves with shitty work over many, many years. Hell, even now, we see DX12 showing huge gains on AMD hardware almost exclusively because of how insanely shitty their DX11 drivers are, and people talk about this like it showed how 'forward thinking' AMD was, I mean, really?
Why the side tangent? You are absolutely right that I want to see competition. But that isn't what we have been seeing for a long ass time now, we have been seeing apologists and spin doctors trying to spin the shit AMD puts out as competitive when it just isn't. Then you add their type of viral marketing, it makes my blood boil. Look, you and Keys used to talk up nV's offerings, I got that, and if that was their approach then I'd have no issue with it. But you know better then pretty much everyone AMD has had an active campaign to destroy tech forums by silencing any dissenting voices from their marketing spin.
Now, do I want competition in the industry, yes.
Do I want to pretend the winner of the Special Olympics is really going toe to toe with Usain Bolt while he is assaulting fans and burning down sports bars?
Quote:My first computer was the Commodore C64
Apple ][ and TRS 80 were the computers I had before the C64 launched, whipper snapper
RE: AMD has lost their marbles! - googoo24 - 02-28-2017
For those that care, someone apparently benched the 1700x under CPU-Z with a slight overclock (if I read correctly. Could be higher).
The results:
http://valid.x86.fr/bench/rjmzdu/1
http://valid.x86.fr/bench/rjmzdu/8
http://valid.x86.fr/bench/rjmzdu/4
I'd really like to know what frequency this was at.
More silliness:
http://www.mykancolle.com/?post=1362
RE: AMD has lost their marbles! - RolloTheGreat - 02-28-2017
(02-28-2017, 10:37 AM)gstanford Wrote: Johnny-come-lately's the lot of you. My first computer was the Commodore C64, and I learned about computers on a DEC PDP-8, through a terminal, the PDP-8 was 400 km away in the state capital, the only one in the State at the time.
My first pc was an Apple II+.
RE: AMD has lost their marbles! - RolloTheGreat - 02-28-2017
(02-28-2017, 10:38 AM)BenSkywalker Wrote: Why the side tangent? You are absolutely right that I want to see competition. But that isn't what we have been seeing for a long ass time now, we have been seeing apologists and spin doctors trying to spin the shit AMD puts out as competitive when it just isn't. Then you add their type of viral marketing, it makes my blood boil. Look, you and Keys used to talk up nV's offerings, I got that, and if that was their approach then I'd have no issue with it. But you know better then pretty much everyone AMD has had an active campaign to destroy tech forums by silencing any dissenting voices from their marketing spin.
You are correct, I know a lot about their vile attack strategies. (unfortunately)
It was pretty easy to talk up the NV stuff, it was usually arguably the best stuff you could buy. (and even when it wasn't it had stuff like better 3d, PhysX, etc that was interesting to try)
I guess I've always had a "support the underdog" thing with AMD processors, goes back to younger days when I wanted a PII-400 and couldn't afford it.
RE: AMD has lost their marbles! - RolloTheGreat - 03-01-2017
(03-01-2017, 04:55 AM)gstanford Wrote: LOL! Mr Rich Braggart couldn't afford a Pentium II-400?! There is a turn up for the books! Those diplomas were failing you pretty bad!
Where you finish is more important than where you start. I ended up buying more than my share of hardware soon after that.
RE: AMD has lost their marbles! - RolloTheGreat - 03-02-2017
(03-01-2017, 06:11 AM)gstanford Wrote: Didn't we all?
I just find it interesting you say "Your degrees failed you" because at that point in my life my priorities were on remodeling and upgrading my first home.
I'll say this about the bachelors degrees:
If I wanted to leave the IS world today, my degrees would get my resume' in the "review" pile for every position that says non specific degree required or preferred. (as well as the ones that require my specific degrees) As I have work experience in sales, purchasing, management as well that is a lot of jobs I can apply for outside of the industry I've worked in the last 18 years.
If you don't think that is worth anything, I guess this is just another instance where I think you're nuts. (like the assertion a Yaris is a better car to drive than a full size pickup)
RE: AMD has lost their marbles! - RolloTheGreat - 03-03-2017
(03-02-2017, 09:14 PM)gstanford Wrote: Go ahead and quit your job then, try getting a new one. You'll rapidly discover that you need more than just a couple of degrees on your resume. Degrees are a dime a dozen nowadays compared to when you got them.
Most employer will take one look at your age (either on your resume or when you front for an interview) and that will be the end for that job.
More GStanomics and GLogic.
A "dime a dozen"? Hardly.
https://www.census.gov/content/dam/Census/library/publications/2016/demo/p20-578.pdf
The US Government says that in 2015 one third of the population had a bachelor's degree or higher. (Hint: That means two thirds (twice as many) don't)
Second, as I'm not Dr. Who I cannot travel backwards in time and become younger. However, would I rather be an old guy looking for work with 25 years of stable work experience and two degrees or an old guy looking for work with 25 years stable work experience?
Not much of a question, they used to call them "no brainers".
RE: AMD has lost their marbles! - RolloTheGreat - 03-03-2017
(03-03-2017, 08:53 AM)gstanford Wrote: Well, go right ahead then - quit your job and show us how effortless it is for you. I dare you!
You may not believe this, but I don't really do things based on comments from internet strangers.
RE: AMD has lost their marbles! - RolloTheGreat - 03-03-2017
I think you're just trolling GStan.
No one is dumb enough to think it's better not to have university degrees.
It's impossible to go through life and not notice most of the people with "good jobs" have university degrees, that a lot of the "good jobs" require a degree to legally do the job, or the numerous statistics on higher wages and lower unemployment rates correlating with level of education.
So, I can only conclude you're trolling.
RE: AMD has lost their marbles! - RolloTheGreat - 03-03-2017
(03-03-2017, 05:59 PM)gstanford Wrote: Most of the people with good jobs got them because of who they know, not what they know. The degrees are just plausible deniability for that when they are accused of benefiting from nepotism, the good old boys club or being daddies favorite.
That's what YOU say, I say they get the jobs because they wear blue socks to interviews. Gosh, neither of us can prove our point in any way. What can a person believe?
You're just a bitter person, and I can tell you there is no upside to it.
Do I wish I would have studied different majors that put me in better standing? Sure. Do I say, "Those guys all had unfair advantages and I couldn't have done that anyway."? No
Your parents owe you nothing but a safe place to live, food and clothing and where you go from there is up to you.
I'll pay for my son's state university education. One of his buddies will get scholarships for his academics and sports. Another is looking at Ivy League schools. Another will go to a trade school to learn welding.
There's nothing "fair" or "unfair" about it, just kids following the path in life they choose. It was the same for you and me. We should have worked harder, or done other work, or took different risks if we wanted to be "rich".
RE: AMD has lost their marbles! - ocre - 03-04-2017
(03-03-2017, 05:59 PM)gstanford Wrote: Most of the people with good jobs got them because of who they know, not what they know. The degrees are just plausible deniability for that when they are accused of benefiting from nepotism, the good old boys club or being daddies favorite.
RUBBISH!!!!
i dont know where to start.
What a poor way to look at the world. Its definitely one that is guaranteed to hold a person back. Its extremely flawed and short sited.
Humans live and thrive in collaborative groups which we know goes back to our earliest beginnings. We are a social species, it defines us..it is the core of our existence.
I find your post really strange, cause i think you might really believe this...and believe it strongly.
Of course connections are important in life, be it acquaintances, friendships, or colleagues. But as much as you believe the stuff you just posted, you got things truly warped.
We start making our own connections early on in life. Making your own friends, building your own relationships. More often than not, children grow up to go their own way and not just be an extension of their parents.
I could list a page full of wildly successful people who befriend at a university then started their own brand new company and paths to huge wealth. They didnt know each other from a hill of beans before hand. But, that is how life works.
Its always good to have connections, it is the only way to work your way up thru social status. Its how it works, everywhere, in all aspects pertaining to groups of humans. Its the difference between a total stranger and being recognized. Having a name another person knows you by, it also comes with some basic opinions of that person as well, guaranteed. Such as: friendly or rude, intelligent or dumb, successful or special in some way or another, etc etc.
Immediately people assess the people they met. Its a natural and very useful human trait. This is how we connect and how it works. I have over the years made many friends in different fields and its nice to know that most anyone i every worked with would have my back if i every needed.
I started out knowing absolutely no one in this area. I had to start at the bottom and worked my way up. Made friends and acquaintances which down the line i would have to lean on one of the people that used to be under me...years later after the place i worked at shut down, i was struggling to get by and ran into someone at a department store. Just a guy who used to be pretty low down the ladder. I always showed him kindness and respect, which he remembered all those years later. He led me to my current company, one i would have never went to...heck i didnt even know it exist at the time. But that connection led to me trying for a company that was totally out of my sights. Went thru a rigorous process to get in the door only to find that that guy who got me on was pretty low on the social status scale. I had to work my way up in this company. Knew nothing and no one important but set on my journey to excel and to impress.
And that is how it works. You have to work hard in life and make your own way. I dont see or study people who just have everything handed to them. What good would that do me? I cant get anywhere bitching and crying, watching other people. Its up to me, its my life and my path. I have had to work way harder than others at times just to get noticed. Because i wasnt one of the good ole boys. But that was my fuel, i was way more capable and it took me a long time to get people to see that. But i did start building support and eventually had people strongly behind me. And then.. the tides turned. It was a lot of work and i made my way.
RE: AMD has lost their marbles! - RolloTheGreat - 03-04-2017
(03-04-2017, 03:34 PM)gstanford Wrote: There is good social power like you described and it is how everyday people get by. It can also be abused and used to exclude and to benefit only certain people and that is where it becomes bad.
I have one example for you.
Donald J. Trump.
The man is dumber than a rock, makes George W. Bush look like Einstein by comparison and got where he is today with Daddy's fortune and who he knows, not what he knows.
It happens all the goddamn time, which is why there are endless corruption and mismanagement scandals that happen, because the people in the positions are clueless and are there for the power, prestige and money not anything else. And they are destroying the world in the process.
So much fail here.
GStan, while it is true social ties and inherited wealth can influence a person's outcome, it's also true the person themselves can either by acquisition of knowledge/skill, social skills, luck, hard work.
E.G. Let's say an "average battler" gets his $40K a year job with benefits and lives within his means on that. If he goes to work another 10 hours a week at a part time job for $100 and starts investing that when he's 25, by the time he's 50 he'll have $500,000..
http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/money/perfi/columnist/krantz/2005-11-09-compounding_x.htm
I can see your GStan gears turning as I type this, thinking "$500,000 is not much!" and you're right, that's not exactly a kings ransom.
However:
1. That's at 50 and most people don't get to retire when they're 50, at least in the US.
https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#q=average+retirement+age+in+usa+2016&*
63-63 is our average retirement age, so that would get you up to $750K theoretically, which is a fair amount of cash. Divide that by 25 years of life and it's $30,000 a year on top of whatever social security or pension (or both) you get.
Too lazy to work more than 40 hours a week? Marry another average battler that is willing to work and chunk $200 of your combined income into growth funds and you should be millionaire battlers at 50.
Bear in mind this is just on generic, average wages.
Any person on the planet can go to a tech school and learn a trade and end up making more, or go to a University and learn a trade and make more.
If you get a couple more skilled battlers making $75K a year, they can amass wealth more quickly. (and if you get to the $75K level, you certainly have possibilities to get over $100K.
And all of this is totally outside "born to riches", nepotism, and the "good old boys" club. Just willingness to work .
RE: AMD has lost their marbles! - RolloTheGreat - 03-05-2017
(03-04-2017, 08:52 PM)gstanford Wrote: If only it were that simple. Reality is that you go to trade school or college, get a qualification that should let you earn more, but you still don't land the jobs. Why? Because the employer already knows who they are going to hire before they place the advert and they write the selection criteria to exclude anyone else. if you aren't in the employers "who they know" list your qualification won't do a thing for you. You'll just be one of the 100+ other applicants with the same certificate as you who the employer doesn't know and didn't give the job to either.I should have titled this thread " Gstan has lost his marbles". Gstan, no one is saying can be raised on a desert island by kind monkeys and walk into the boardroom at IBM.
Sites like LinkedIn, Seek and FaceBook exist because of "its who you know, not what you know that matters". You are fucking clueless if you believe otherwise. These businesses built their success out of it!
Go down to your job agency and ask them to help you find work (don't need to quit your current job to try this). One of the first things they will discuss and want to do with you is develop your social net work (look at that, who you know popping up yet again).
Look at what I posted. Ways average folks can live a good life, amass wealth, or both. Without being related to someone or golf buddies with the CEO.
I got my current job referred by a guy I played sand volleyball with. I've referred fishing buddies. I've also hired people I've never met, and been part of teams that hired people we've never heard of.
Yes social networking can be part of it, but not many smart companies will hire less qualified candidates to help a buddy. "My buddy's son likes those crazy computer games,but GStan has 10 years experience servicing PCs. I think we should hire the son, our staff won't mind he can't do the job, and we have plenty of money to waste on lost productivity while Jr. fumbles about.
Seriously?
RE: AMD has lost their marbles! - RolloTheGreat - 03-05-2017
This is as simply as I can put it:
Odds are a million to one you'll never get the hundreds of thousands a year job because a. Those jobs are very rare b.You don't know the right people c. Your job and educational background don't cut it. ( don't feel bad, mine don't either)
BUT you can live a very nice life and retire comfortably if you a.invest b.work c. partner up with someone willing to do the same. (And c. is optional if you're willing to work harder)
Life is rigged for you, not against you.
RE: AMD has lost their marbles! - RolloTheGreat - 03-05-2017
Once again Gstan has no answer for the truth.
Hey Gstan, don't you think we'd all rather believe the game was rigged and we'd surely be multimillionaires if not for unfair circumstances we had no control over?
Lots easier on the conscience than remembering the mistakes we made along the way, the extra work we didn't do, and the risks we didn't take isn't it?
The same thoughts haunt me and I've come to believe the only defense is deciding what really matters to you and chasing it.
For me it was doing what I'm best at, most of the time from my home, and taking time off every week to enjoy my hobbies. No clue what it would be for you, but unless you find it you'll just keep being bitter.
RE: AMD has lost their marbles! - googoo24 - 03-06-2017
I think the 1700 is the real winner out of the top Ryzen pieces (IMHO).
http://www.anandtech.com/bench/product/1828?vs=1851
RE: AMD has lost their marbles! - dmcowen674 - 03-06-2017
Gstan is right, it is who you know not what you know.
I've seen the most incompetent, know nothing bafoons in multi-million dollar jobs strictly because of who they know or silver spooner generation passed down to generation.
RE: AMD has lost their marbles! - ocre - 03-06-2017
(03-04-2017, 03:34 PM)gstanford Wrote: There is good social power like you described and it is how everyday people get by. It can also be abused and used to exclude and to benefit only certain people and that is where it becomes bad.
I have one example for you.
Donald J. Trump.
The man is dumber than a rock, makes George W. Bush look like Einstein by comparison and got where he is today with Daddy's fortune and who he knows, not what he knows.
It happens all the goddamn time, which is why there are endless corruption and mismanagement scandals that happen, because the people in the positions are clueless and are there for the power, prestige and money not anything else. And they are destroying the world in the process.
What are you even taking about? I mean, how the heck do you pivot to donald trump? Its freaking non sense. You say that nothing matters, its all in who you know and education, skill set, none of it matters. You argue that it boils down to who you know and your response to me..donald trump?
Oh the irony.
A real estate mogul with absolutely no political experience or background? Which no senator, congress man, or former president would ever consider him as one of their own- absolutely not "a good ole boy". The biggest example of the exact opposite.
He had no political allies, was a total outcast that was up against not only the opposing democratic party but also the republican party which spent more and done more to try to stop trump than they ever done to stop Hillary. The opposition so great against him that republicans promised to not only destroy him but any person who was caught talking or being friendly towards trump.
Its so funny!
You say he got where he did cause "his daddy"????
His daddy? Trump is President of the United states. His dad built apartment buildings. His dad could not offer him or give him that job gstan. You really have a terribly warped view. There was no buddy buddy system that got trump to the white house. It's completely insane to see you suggesting that. Its nuts
RE: AMD has lost their marbles! - RolloTheGreat - 03-06-2017
GStan has spent his life hating on people who had advantages he didn't have instead of living his life.
I get not liking nepotism and cronyism, I've seen both in my life. Had to leave a job once due to nepotism, my dad's company lost a big contract once due to cronyism.
My dad (and I) agree with GStan on nepotism. My dad ran and owned companies most of his work life and he told me before I started working that I'd never work for him. Didn't hire his brother when his brother needed a job. My brother and I never worked for dad or one of his friends.
What I don't get is shaping your world view around it. Just because bad things exist in the world, you don't give up on the world.
Hey Gstan, if you learn something how now like internet security skills I guarantee you get a job even if your dad was the town drunk!
RE: AMD has lost their marbles! - RolloTheGreat - 03-07-2017
(03-06-2017, 08:09 PM)gstanford Wrote:trollo Wrote:Odds are a million to one you'll never get the hundreds of thousands a year job because a. Those jobs are very rare b.You don't know the right people c. Your job and educational background don't cut it. ( don't feel bad, mine don't either)Did you even fucking read what I wrote you witless moron?! I'm talking about people who went to trade school/college and got the certificate(s) that qualify them to do the jobs the employers are advertising and they still lose out not because they don't have the knowledge but because they aren't in the employers "who I know" list.
Did you know that in about 80% of cases employers already know exactly who they are going to hire, they just go through the motions of advertising the position so they can claim they have a fair and open recruitment process (when it is actually anything but!)
Did you pull that statistic out of your ass or your hat?
Gosh GStan, at the last two jobs I was at (for the last 25 years) I can think of 4 jobs where a relative or friend was hired and a whole lot where someone previously unknown to the firm was hired. What a miracle I've worked for these rare firms. of course at my sales rep job before that none of the other reps in our area of the country knew anyone either. And when I was a real estate broker none of the other brokers in the office knew anyone. And when I managed the retail business I never hired anyone I'd ever met. And of course I just told you the companies under my dad's control never hired relatives. And I can't think of anyone in my family that got a job in this fashion, and nobody I know making over $100K got their job like that.
But I'm sure you're right, it's absolutely impossible to get a job where you don't know anyone.