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+--- Thread: Illinois joins Oregon with pay per mile, only the rich to drive in America (/showthread.php?tid=502)
Illinois joins Oregon with pay per mile, only the rich to drive in America - dmcowen674 - 05-21-2015
5-20-2015
Oregon to test pay-per-mile idea as replacement for gas tax
Oregon is about to embark on a first-in-the-nation program that aims to charge car owners not for the fuel they use, but for the miles they drive.
The program is meant to help the state raise more revenue to pay for road and bridge projects at a time when money generated from gasoline taxes are declining across the country, in part, because of greater fuel efficiency and the increasing popularity of fuel-efficient, hybrid and electric cars.
Private vendors will provide drivers with small digital devices to track miles, at the end of the month, depending on the type of car they drive, they will receive either a credit or a bill for the difference in gas taxes paid at the pump.
RE: Oregon switching to pay per mile, only the rich will be able to drive in America - RolloTheGreat - 05-21-2015
Quote: The volunteers will agree to pay 1.5 cents for each mile traveled on public roads within Oregon, instead of the tax now added when filling up at the pump.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fuel_taxes_in_the_United_States
Quote:On average, as of January 2015, state and local taxes add 30.1 cents to gasoline
My truck gets 16mpg, so at 1.5 cents per gallon that is 24 cents per gallon on their proposed tax, instead of the 30 cents I'm apparently already paying.
What if I got 30mpg?
Well then I'd be paying 45 cents per gallon instead of the 30 cents, or an additional $3.75 per tank with a 25 gallon tank.
You really think that equates to only the rich driving? I'd say if $3.75 a tank is a big deal to a person, they can't afford to drive anyway.
RE: Oregon switching to pay per mile, only the rich will be able to drive in America - dmcowen674 - 05-21-2015
Guess you didn't see the part where they expect it to go to $2 a mile after the trial?
RE: Oregon switching to pay per mile, only the rich will be able to drive in America - RolloTheGreat - 05-21-2015
(05-21-2015, 09:05 AM)dmcowen674 Wrote: Guess you didn't see the part where they expect it to go to $2 a mile after the trial?
I just skimmed it again, saw no $2..
You can't seriously believe it will cost a $2/mile tax to drive in Oregon? It would empty the state and make it a ghost town.
RE: Oregon switching to pay per mile, only the rich will be able to drive in America - dmcowen674 - 05-21-2015
That's what is said about every new and additional taxes and fees yet here we still are. You seriously believe they won't do it?
RE: Oregon switching to pay per mile, only the rich will be able to drive in America - RolloTheGreat - 05-22-2015
(05-21-2015, 11:08 PM)dmcowen674 Wrote: That's what is said about every new and additional taxes and fees yet here we still are. You seriously believe they won't do it?
I seriously do not believe they would do this.
Very few people could afford this, like you say, only rich people, so it would decimate the economy. If they DID do this, the govt who did would be voted out to a man at best, and more likely impeached or removed from office somehow.
This would be end of world type chaos like you have never seen. It would literally bankrupt most families.
I could pay this, but I'd be out of Oregon before the ink on the signatures was dry, and out of the country if this went nationwide.
Probably join my old pal SickBeast up in Canada. I used to be fluent in French, and I bet there are jobs for software guys like me, and accountants like my wife up there as well. I'm all about hunting and fishing, my son would be right at home with soccer being their most popular sport.
No WAY I'd let some government shysters steal from me like that. LOL
RE: Oregon switching to pay per mile, only the rich will be able to drive in America - dmcowen674 - 05-22-2015
(05-21-2015, 06:32 AM)RolloTheGreat Wrote:Quote: The volunteers will agree to pay 1.5 cents for each mile traveled on public roads within Oregon, instead of the tax now added when filling up at the pump.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fuel_taxes_in_the_United_States
Quote:On average, as of January 2015, state and local taxes add 30.1 cents to gasoline
My truck gets 16mpg, so at 1.5 cents per gallon that is 24 cents per gallon on their proposed tax, instead of the 30 cents I'm apparently already paying.
What if I got 30mpg?
Well then I'd be paying 45 cents per gallon instead of the 30 cents, or an additional $3.75 per tank with a 25 gallon tank.
You really think that equates to only the rich driving? I'd say if $3.75 a tank is a big deal to a person, they can't afford to drive anyway.
(05-22-2015, 06:00 AM)RolloTheGreat Wrote:(05-21-2015, 11:08 PM)dmcowen674 Wrote: That's what is said about every new and additional taxes and fees yet here we still are. You seriously believe they won't do it?
I seriously do not believe they would do this.
Very few people could afford this, like you say, only rich people, so it would decimate the economy. If they DID do this, the govt who did would be voted out to a man at best, and more likely impeached or removed from office somehow.
This would be end of world type chaos like you have never seen. It would literally bankrupt most families.
I could pay this, but I'd be out of Oregon before the ink on the signatures was dry, and out of the country if this went nationwide.
Probably join my old pal SickBeast up in Canada. I used to be fluent in French, and I bet there are jobs for software guys like me, and accountants like my wife up there as well. I'm all about hunting and fishing, my son would be right at home with soccer being their most popular sport.
No WAY I'd let some government shysters steal from me like that. LOL
Did you know it costs $25 to get on and off Long Island?
How much is tolls from New York (long island) to New Jersey?
They are going to raise the toll of the one bridge from $11 to $17 each way so it will go to $37 round trip.
I grew up on Long Island and the folks there are pretty unhappy about how high the tolls are but they keep paying it.
They talk about the highway robbery but there is no revolt yet.
Americans seem to be OK with bending over with no lube.
RE: Oregon switching to pay per mile, only the rich will be able to drive in America - RolloTheGreat - 05-22-2015
(05-22-2015, 08:45 AM)dmcowen674 Wrote: Did you know it costs $25 to get on and off Long Island?
They talk about the highway robbery but there is no revolt yet.
Americans seem to be OK with bending over with no lube.
Your problem is you don't realize the enormity of a $2/mile tax.
Average family here and my wife and I drive 30,000 miles a year between us, that would be $60,000.. (and we have a 7 mile commute to work)
You're talking about $250/week commuter fee if we both leave Long Island daily to work in a car. $13,000 a year is a lot less than $60,000 a year.
Never been there, but don't most people use mass transit for their commuting anyway?
RE: Oregon switching to pay per mile, only the rich will be able to drive in America - dmcowen674 - 05-22-2015
(05-22-2015, 09:07 AM)RolloTheGreat Wrote:(05-22-2015, 08:45 AM)dmcowen674 Wrote: Did you know it costs $25 to get on and off Long Island?
They talk about the highway robbery but there is no revolt yet.
Americans seem to be OK with bending over with no lube.
Your problem is you don't realize the enormity of a $2/mile tax.
Average family here and my wife and I drive 30,000 miles a year between us, that would be $60,000.. (and we have a 7 mile commute to work)
You're talking about $250/week commuter fee if we both leave Long Island daily to work in a car. $13,000 a year is a lot less than $60,000 a year.
Never been there, but don't most people use mass transit for their commuting anyway?
No, a lot of people drive and pay for parking garage. It's $450 a month between the LIRR fee and the Subway fee.
RE: Oregon switching to pay per mile, only the rich will be able to drive in America - RolloTheGreat - 05-22-2015
(05-22-2015, 10:11 AM)dmcowen674 Wrote: No, a lot of people drive and pay for parking garage. It's $450 a month between the LIRR fee and the Subway fee.
Eh, no one's forcing you to live there.
You can buy a nice house in my area for under $250K, drive 10 minutes to work on roads with no tolls and drive a half hour in any direction and be in the sticks.
RE: Oregon switching to pay per mile, only the rich will be able to drive in America - dmcowen674 - 05-22-2015
(05-22-2015, 11:16 AM)RolloTheGreat Wrote:(05-22-2015, 10:11 AM)dmcowen674 Wrote: No, a lot of people drive and pay for parking garage. It's $450 a month between the LIRR fee and the Subway fee.
Eh, no one's forcing you to live there.
You can buy a nice house in my area for under $250K, drive 10 minutes to work on roads with no tolls and drive a half hour in any direction and be in the sticks.
That is the typical response by the rich. Once all the worker bees leave what will the rich do? They certainly can't feed themselves or do anything for themselves.
RE: Oregon switching to pay per mile, only the rich will be able to drive in America - RolloTheGreat - 05-22-2015
(05-22-2015, 11:26 AM)dmcowen674 Wrote: That is the typical response by the rich. Once all the worker bees leave what will the rich do? They certainly can't feed themselves or do anything for themselves.
Did you see me mention my wife and I both commute? If we were "the rich" do you think we'd bother? We are "worker bees", just in an office setting with a handful of people under us on the org chart.
Probably spend 90% of our time "working" and 10% "managing", which I think is more prevalent these days the reverse in a lot of companies.
https://hbr.org/2011/01/column-the-end-of-the-middle-manager
RE: Oregon switching to pay per mile, only the rich will be able to drive in America - dmcowen674 - 05-22-2015
Your responses are very "Rich like". I know why. With both working and apparently making decent enough money to afford a quarter of a million dollar house you are not affected like the lower working rungs in the U.S. are. The U.S. has become a "Caste like" system. The Bell curve is more like a cliff now. Those at the bottom of the cliff looking up and those at the top looking down.
RE: Oregon switching to pay per mile, only the rich will be able to drive in America - RolloTheGreat - 05-22-2015
(05-22-2015, 09:12 PM)dmcowen674 Wrote: Your responses are very "Rich like". I know why. With both working and apparently making decent enough money to afford a quarter of a million dollar house you are not affected like the lower working rungs in the U.S. are. The U.S. has become a "Caste like" system. The Bell curve is more like a cliff now. Those at the bottom of the cliff looking up and those at the top looking down.
I agree, and lay most of the current problems in our country at the feet of trade agreements, reductions in import tariffs, and outsourcing.
People without hope turn to booze, dope, crime, etc and "I'm going to reinvent myself as a programmer/engineer/health care professional is hard for anyone and likely impossible for a lot.
Not you though Dave, and I'd note my dad has a friend that went to law school and passed the bar exam in two states, and built a practice, all after fifty.
RE: Oregon switching to pay per mile, only the rich will be able to drive in America - ocre - 05-23-2015
We can start by talking about Clinton (if you didnt know, he is a democrat)
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/lori-wallach/nafta-at-20-one-million-u_b_4550207.html
RE: Oregon switching to pay per mile, only the rich will be able to drive in America - dmcowen674 - 05-23-2015
Clinton was I believe the turning point where Corporations took over the Politicians therefore the U.S. Government itself.
RE: Oregon switching to pay per mile, only the rich will be able to drive in America - dmcowen674 - 04-14-2016
4-13-2016
Illinois joining Oregon in taxing Motorists by the mile:
Illinois to tax by the mile
It’s called “I-Ride" and under the plan the state would monitor car odometer readings or install devices that track miles driven on Illinois roads.
“It’s highway robbery,” said Jared Labell, director of operations Taxpayers United of America “It’s highway robbery saying you owe $450 for just being a driver anywhere in Illinois or be tracked anywhere you go.
RE: Oregon switching to pay per mile, only the rich will be able to drive in America - RolloTheGreat - 04-14-2016
(04-14-2016, 11:29 AM)dmcowen674 Wrote: 4-13-2016
Illinois joining Oregon in taxing Motorists by the mile:
Illinois to tax by the mile
It’s called “I-Ride" and under the plan the state would monitor car odometer readings or install devices that track miles driven on Illinois roads.
“It’s highway robbery,” said Jared Labell, director of operations Taxpayers United of America “It’s highway robbery saying you owe $450 for just being a driver anywhere in Illinois or be tracked anywhere you go.
Paying $450/year and getting your $.20/gallon refunded sounds fair to me. I would get a $200 refund as I buy around 20 gallons of gas a week, so I'd pay $250 instead of the normal $200.. (and be loaning the state $200 that they would rebate)
I don't see a problem here?
RE: Illinois joins Oregon with pay per mile, only the rich to drive in America - SteelCrysis - 04-14-2016
I do. You shouldn't have the entire state become a turnpike.
RE: Illinois joins Oregon with pay per mile, only the rich to drive in America - RolloTheGreat - 04-14-2016
(04-14-2016, 09:34 PM)SteelCrysis Wrote: I do. You shouldn't have the entire state become a turnpike.
Ah.
So it would have been better if they just raised the income or sales tax the same amount?
They're going to take the money one way or another, whether it's this or the "2nd eyeball tax" (tax on people with two eyes) does it really make any difference?
The state can't default on it's bills like pensions, employee salaries, provided services so they have to raise taxes.
Those who don't like the higher taxes can move to states with lower taxes. (or call their Congressperson and say, "We're hurting in district X!"
It's all pretty simple.
RE: Illinois joins Oregon with pay per mile, only the rich to drive in America - SickBeast - 04-15-2016
Why don't they just use a fuel tax?
RE: Illinois joins Oregon with pay per mile, only the rich to drive in America - SteelCrysis - 04-15-2016
Or increase existing taxes?
RE: Illinois joins Oregon with pay per mile, only the rich to drive in America - RolloTheGreat - 04-15-2016
(04-15-2016, 06:20 AM)SickBeast Wrote: Why don't they just use a fuel tax?
They have a fuel tax, this is replacing it and will provide more revenue. My truck gets 16mpg and I only buy 20 gallons of gas a week. $4/tax at their present rate, $208/year. If I have to pay $450/year, they've more than doubled my driving tax.
I get 16mpg, but think of all the people driving GStan mobiles getting 30mpg. Those guys would only be paying $100/year, and now will pay $450- big difference.
(04-15-2016, 07:22 AM)SteelCrysis Wrote: Or increase existing taxes?
I reiterate- what is the difference? If I am the state and I tax you $100 for breathing, $100 for owning property, or $100 buying something, you're still out $100..
RE: Illinois joins Oregon with pay per mile, only the rich to drive in America - dmcowen674 - 04-15-2016
Indiana just admitted that not one penny of the fuel tax goes to roads when they just tried to double the fuel tax in the latest Legislative session.
It was supposed to be 100% for roads but just like everything Politicians do they steal the money for themselves.
RE: Illinois joins Oregon with pay per mile, only the rich to drive in America - ocre - 04-16-2016
Ha, what a joke
RE: Illinois joins Oregon with pay per mile, only the rich to drive in America - RolloTheGreat - 04-16-2016
(04-15-2016, 06:12 PM)dmcowen674 Wrote: Indiana just admitted that not one penny of the fuel tax goes to roads when they just tried to double the fuel tax in the latest Legislative session.
It was supposed to be 100% for roads but just like everything Politicians do they steal the money for themselves.
Politicians don't "steal money for themselves", they are paid a salary.
RE: Illinois joins Oregon with pay per mile, only the rich to drive in America - BoFox - 04-19-2016
Makes me not want to drive through Illinois again... UGH!!!!!!! Disgusting!