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+---- Thread: Plain clothes Florida cop executes Black Church Drummer on I-95 (/showthread.php?tid=861)
Plain clothes Florida cop executes Black Church Drummer on I-95 - dmcowen674 - 10-21-2015
10-20-2015
Cops say 'armed' Florida church musician Corey Jones killed by police officer after car breaks down along I-95
A well-known Florida drummer, who doubled as the assistant manager of the Delray Beach Housing Authority, was shot dead by a plainclothes Palm Beach Gardens police officer in an unmarked car after his car broke down on the side of the road following a music gig Sunday.
Authorities, family members say, have refused to fully describe what happened during the early morning confrontation that left 31-year-old Corey Jones dead.
But a police statement released Monday afternoon said the officer, Nouman Raja, was "suddenly confronted by an armed subject" when he "stopped to investigate what he believed to be an abandoned vehicle" along an Interstate 95 exit ramp around 3:15 a.m. Sunday.
Raja was on duty and in plain clothes in an unmarked vehicle, according to cops. No details were released about the weapon Jones was allegedly armed with.For all we know it could've been a tire iron, a cell phone, his wallet, a pair of drumsticks, or his blackness.
The drummer was leaving a late night gig when his car broke down on I-95 near an exit ramp for PGA Blvd., authorities said. He called his brother to let him know about the trouble and to see if he could help him get a tow truck.
Fifteen hours after Corey was shot and killed, police came to his brother’s home with the news — but answers were elusive. Half a dozen family, friends, and co-workers each told the Daily News that they did not know Corey to carry a firearm or even touch guns recreationally.
Now 24 hours later, the family still has no answers and are struggling to figure out how in the world this could’ve happened and detectives are already stating that it could take them several months to complete their investigation.
Delray Beach Housing Authority CEO Dorothy Ellington told local reporters that Corey had only taken one vacation in eight years and was one of the best, most respectful, compliant employees she had ever had. She has critical doubts that he challenged a police officer with a weapon.
Police said the Palm Beach County Sheriff's Office will investigate the shooting and Raja is on paid leave. A call to Palm Beach Gardens police for further details on the shooting was not immediately returned.
RE: Plain clothes Florida cop executes Black Church Drummer on I-95 - dmcowen674 - 10-21-2015
Sadly sounds like there is No Dash Cam video or body cam video for the actions of this Officer.
Another one that will get away with another roadside execution.
RE: Plain clothes Florida cop executes Black Church Drummer on I-95 - dmcowen674 - 10-21-2015
Turns out this is a friend of one of my close childhood friends.
She is pretty upset by this of course.
The Police force in America has become an Execution force.
RE: Plain clothes Florida cop executes Black Church Drummer on I-95 - dmcowen674 - 10-21-2015
RE: Plain clothes Florida cop executes Black Church Drummer on I-95 - ocre - 10-22-2015
He supposedly bought a gun last week
Why, no one knows
RE: Plain clothes Florida cop executes Black Church Drummer on I-95 - dmcowen674 - 10-22-2015
(10-22-2015, 06:17 AM)ocre Wrote: He supposedly bought a gun last week
Why, no one knows
Has that been proven yet? Could be a plant.
RE: Plain clothes Florida cop executes Black Church Drummer on I-95 - RolloTheGreat - 10-22-2015
Dave do you REALLY think the cops are roving murder squads?
Have to tell you that while I think there are isolated instances where they do something bat shit crazy like shooting that traffic stop guy in the back as he ran away, a lot of the "killer cop" stories involve real criminals who are killed in the process of resisting arrest.
I have no love of the cops, or ties to them, but one of two things is true:
They're really bad at being an execution squad. They're involved in 1000s of arrests a day, yet the number of shootings is in the 100s per year, and almost all of them are found justified.
They're in the unfortunate situation of dealing with people who are enraged, intoxicated, or just straight out dangerous criminals daily and shots get fired because the people won't lay down and put their hands behind their backs.
You make it sound like it's only a matter of time before I get shot for jaywalking.
RE: Plain clothes Florida cop executes Black Church Drummer on I-95 - dmcowen674 - 10-23-2015
(10-22-2015, 10:47 PM)RolloTheGreat Wrote: You make it sound like it's only a matter of time before I get shot for jaywalking.
I would not be surprised.
RE: Plain clothes Florida cop executes Black Church Drummer on I-95 - RolloTheGreat - 10-23-2015
http://www.politifact.com/wisconsin/statements/2014/aug/29/edward-flynn/fatal-police-shootings-occur-tiny-percentage-arres/
Quote:It's an extraordinarily rare event. But the fact is, (in) 2012, there were 12,197,000 arrests in the United States, OK? And there were 410 uses of deadly force.
Quote:The Milwaukee police chief correctly quotes official FBI statistics on arrests and justifiable homicides by law enforcement officers, although it appears the 410 is an undercount of the number of people killed by police.
We rate his statement Mostly True.
So twelve million arrests a year, cops say 410 shooting deaths, I've seen claims as high as 1000. Either way, the percent of times cops shoot and kill people is lightning strike rare.
http://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/debunked-5-lightning-myths-could-kill-you-n135971
1 in 10000 odds you'll be hit by lightning in your life, 1 in 12,197 odds you'll get shot by a cop if you're arrested. When you throw in the fact most of the people shot by cops are actually in some sort of fight with them or have drawn a gun on them, the odds are probably more around the same as getting hit by a meteor.
You're a good guy Dave, but you're way paranoid and way off base on this one. Numbers don't back your position.
RE: Plain clothes Florida cop executes Black Church Drummer on I-95 - ocre - 10-23-2015
Corruption is not a cop thing, it has been around as long as humans.
Evil, cops didnt invent that either.
Psychos, crazy, sociopaths, killers, narcissism, etc, etc......not a single one of these are restricted to law enforcement. Cops.......its not a cop issue!!
These are human issues. Cops just happen to be humans, humans have flaws.
Abuse of power, that is not restricted to cops. It happens in every walk of life, from every level. From a walmart clerk stealing returns or letting others use their employee discount, to million dollar mass fraud/embezzlement, to an exec making sexual advances/demands, to blackmail. Humans are far from perfect.
I am willing to bet that right now cops in general are probably more lawful now than in any time in their history. Its just now we live in a time where a single event spreads the very second it happens. We used to depend on news papers and word of mouth, then radio and television (which were always instruments of propaganda as it was controlled media). Today we live in a time where information travels so fast it is almost impossible to cap.
You have to know, corruption is real and it exist as a human trait. It is not a cop thing.
RE: Plain clothes Florida cop executes Black Church Drummer on I-95 - BenSkywalker - 10-23-2015
Quote:So far this year, there have been seven lightning deaths in the U.S., including a 32-year-old man found lifeless under a tree Wednesday in Ann Arbor, Michigan. Last year, there were 23 lightning deaths in the U.S., a record low in a nation where the 30-year average is 51 deaths a year.
That puts the odds of being struck by lightning at about 1:6,000,000
Cop killing you by gunfire is 1:12,197 using your numbers Rollo. So, you are roughly 500 times more likely to be shot to death by a cop than hit by lightning.
Now almost everyone says that we have an epidemic of gun violence in the US, total murders from firearms in the US is around 11,000 per year-
http://usconservatives.about.com/od/capitalpunishment/a/Putting-Gun-Death-Statistics-In-Perspective.htm
In other words, if you are going to die from hostile gunfire, there is a roughly 10% chance that it will be from a police officer.
Out of the US population, roughly 1.1 million, or 0.3%, are police officers, and yet they commit 10% of all hostile murders with firearms. By way of comparison, there are about 1.4 million gang members in the US, estimates I'm seeing place gang related murders at roughly 2,000 per year.
Said another way, you are *slightly* more likely to be killed by a gang member then a police officer. One of them is a criminal element stealing money from people, using bullying, intimidation and violence to hammer the weak into submission- the others are gang members.
RE: Plain clothes Florida cop executes Black Church Drummer on I-95 - dmcowen674 - 10-23-2015
Latest is he was shot 6 times. His gun was not fired.
RE: Plain clothes Florida cop executes Black Church Drummer on I-95 - RolloTheGreat - 10-23-2015
(10-23-2015, 10:00 PM)dmcowen674 Wrote: Latest is he was shot 6 times. His gun was not fired.
I don't doubt there are times cops make bad decisions or act like criminals.
What I don't know is if this is one of those times. You asking us to assume this cop, who has risked his life daily for years to protect us, just went rogue and murdered this drummer for no reason. That might be the case, but it could also be a suicide by cop or a case of mistaken identity.
In your other thread it's pretty obvious from the video that cop heard the pit bull on the other side of the door trying to get at him, he's backing away from the door and drawing his gun as they let their vicious killer dog loose on him.
Yet you played it up like he showed up Lassie's house and plugged Lassie for no reason.
You seem to have a real desire to make cops look bad. Like I said, no love of them, but I think 99% of the time they shoot they had good reason. This anti cop hysteria serves no one. When they do go rogue they stand trial.
I also think all cops should wear body cams to keep things clear.
RE: Plain clothes Florida cop executes Black Church Drummer on I-95 - dmcowen674 - 10-23-2015
It is insane that in 2015 there was no dash cam and no body cam on your so called "protector" that roams the highway lurking in an unmarked car.
RE: Plain clothes Florida cop executes Black Church Drummer on I-95 - dmcowen674 - 10-23-2015
(10-23-2015, 11:40 PM)RolloTheGreat Wrote: You seem to have a real desire to make cops look bad.
They are making themselves look bad.
The fact you don't acknowledge there is a serious police issue in the U.S. now you are part of the problem.
RE: Plain clothes Florida cop executes Black Church Drummer on I-95 - dmcowen674 - 10-23-2015
(10-23-2015, 11:40 PM)RolloTheGreat Wrote: In your other thread it's pretty obvious from the video that cop heard the pit bull on the other side of the door trying to get at him, he's backing away from the door and drawing his gun as they let their vicious killer dog loose on him.If he heard the dog and is scared of dogs then why did he pursue whatever he was thinking without calling for back up or for animal control?
Yet you played it up like he showed up Lassie's house and plugged Lassie for no reason.
Why are you always defending the actions of police on private property?
RE: Plain clothes Florida cop executes Black Church Drummer on I-95 - SteelCrysis - 10-24-2015
(10-23-2015, 11:53 PM)dmcowen674 Wrote: If he heard the dog and is scared of dogs then why did he pursue whatever he was thinking without calling for back up or for animal control?Maybe because by the time he called animal control, the pit bull would have already attacked him?
Why are you always defending the actions of police on private property?
RE: Plain clothes Florida cop executes Black Church Drummer on I-95 - RolloTheGreat - 10-24-2015
(10-23-2015, 11:53 PM)dmcowen674 Wrote: If he heard the dog and is scared of dogs then why did he pursue whatever he was thinking without calling for back up or for animal control?
Why are you always defending the actions of police on private property?
With pit bulls it's not about "being scared of dogs". Pit bulls are dangerous animals, like bears or mountain lions.
When someone shoots a bear or mountain lion that is attacking them, people don't say,"Awww, poor bear! He was a good bear!". They understand that the shooter was defending his life.
Cops can come to your door if they want, basically anyone can. If that was a kid selling girl scout cookies the link would have been, "Girl scout killed by pit bull".
I would vote for a federal law that allowed police to go to ANY home that has a pit bull and shoot it, and would definitely shoot one on my lawns. Those things shouldn't be living among us.
RE: Plain clothes Florida cop executes Black Church Drummer on I-95 - ocre - 10-24-2015
Haha
Pit bulls are just dogs rollo. It is a recent mutt bread, there is no pure bred pit bulls.
There is nothing more aggressive about a pit bull than any other bread. This is just a dog, just a dog.
If you train a pit bull to be a killer, it only does what it is trained. But Doberman, German shepherds, Rottweiler- all dogs used in the past as man eaters. Pit bulls are by far smaller than any of the other bread in history used as attack dogs.
Pit bulls vary wildly, the bloodline is far from pure. Many registered to the bloodline don't have the classic pit bull look. It is a very recent bread that just isn't pure.
On top of that, most reported pit bull attacks are not even from pit bulls. There are at least 15 real dog breads that that have physical traits similar and hundreds of thousands of mutts that would or could be identified as a pit bull.
Very very few registered pit bulls attack people.
What we have is people training their dogs to be mean. Any mutt that looks pit bull like, they call a pit bull.
The pit bull bread is just a dog. They have been bread to have a high tolerance to pain and fearless. They will lay their life down for their master. If trained to fight or kill, they will give it all they got.
Most working breads give it all they have, it is not unusual. Pit bulls just don't back down once they feel pain, it just makes them more determined. But as a man eater, the pit bull is not ideal. There are better choices for that.
If you train a dog to be mean, it will be mean.
Since most reported pit bull attacks are from mutts and/or misidentified breads, it's silly to hear these kind of suggestions. Years ago, we had Dobermans and Rottweilers trained to be aggressive towards man. These dogs would rip you apart. Today, pit bulls represent that tough and scary image,because of the social trends. And there are those people who want their dog to live up to that image of mean and tough. What you may not know is that pit bulls were around for the last century,only recently have they become this man eater image. In the old movies from the 70s, people would laugh if a movie had pit bulls guarding a junk yard.
I haven't brought up the fact that sometimes good dogs attack out of the blue, dogs not trained to be mean. This has happened but it's not just dogs that look like pit bulls turning, not to long ago a 38 yr old woman was killed and ripped to shreds by her own dog: a German Shepard.
But that didn't have the same buzz as it would if it were a dog that could be called a pit bull. A German Shepard is radically different looking, so the media just didn't pick it up. It's all about the hype and pit bulls have been demonized. The ultimate truth, most reported pit bull attacks are mutts. Some barely resemble a pit.
RE: Plain clothes Florida cop executes Black Church Drummer on I-95 - RolloTheGreat - 10-24-2015
Personally, I think we could solve the problem by changing the law to hold people responsible for the crime of the dog. Not many normal people will risk doing prison time to own a "tough dog".
Problem solved.
RE: Plain clothes Florida cop executes Black Church Drummer on I-95 - dmcowen674 - 10-24-2015
Unmarked Police Vehicle was a 15 passenger van.
RE: Plain clothes Florida cop executes Black Church Drummer on I-95 - RolloTheGreat - 10-24-2015
(10-24-2015, 08:43 AM)dmcowen674 Wrote: Unmarked Police Vehicle was a 15 passenger van.
Is there a point to this?
What difference does it make what vehicle undercover cops are driving? Vans aren't exactly panzer tanks that can be used to attack the people and their pit bulls?
Wife:"What happened Joe? You look terrified!"
Husband:"It....It's the cops! They have full size vans now! Now they can be delivering appliances or baked goods while they attack us!"
RE: Plain clothes Florida cop executes Black Church Drummer on I-95 - dmcowen674 - 10-24-2015
Point is you have no idea who is approaching you.
RE: Plain clothes Florida cop executes Black Church Drummer on I-95 - RolloTheGreat - 10-24-2015
(10-24-2015, 06:45 PM)dmcowen674 Wrote: Point is you have no idea who is approaching you.
You're edging closer to what I think the most likely answer is here.
The drummer guy may well have bought the handgun because he had been threatened recently or in some sort of dangerous situation.
Seeing the van, guy who didn't look like a cop telling him to do whatever the cop asked might have freaked him out. Maybe booze or weed clouding his judgment a bit, maybe he just flashed back on being threatened and thought the cop was a threat.
The cop sees a guy pull a handgun, which he sees a lot and means "Shoot or die" to him because he doesn't know this is just some nice drummer who was recently rattled and bought a hand gun because he doesn't like to feel helpless. (like anyone else)
Tragic misunderstanding on both parts occurs, cop is more ready to shoot because he's used to it.
That or there's something we don't know and this is suicide by cop.
Those two "add up" more than "cop with years of experience risking life to protect public goes nuts and decides he wants to kill a guy for no reason in a year he knows it will spark a HUGE investigation, perhaps riots, and surely national scrutiny".
The last "could" be true, and if so I hope they lock this cop up and throw away the key, pay guys family millions. But to me, the first explanation seems most likely.
When you have 12 million arrests a year, and a huge chunk of the population carrying handguns because they're afraid of being accosted by criminals, tragedies like this are going to happen a tiny percent of the time.
I don't have a good answer for the problem, and agree it is a problem. If cops aren't as quick to shoot when someone points a gun at them, we get dead cops and less people wanting the job. Would you apply for a job where the rule was "OK some guys will point guns at you, but some of them will be frightened or misunderstanding decent people. You have to wait until they start shooting to fire."?
P.S. I should note I don't know who I think is to blame in this yet. I just don't think proclaiming "Another one that will get away with another roadside execution." before the investigation is settled is fair to anyone, the cop or the drummer.
You weren't there, you don't know.
RE: Plain clothes Florida cop executes Black Church Drummer on I-95 - SteelCrysis - 10-24-2015
(10-24-2015, 06:45 PM)dmcowen674 Wrote: Point is you have no idea who is approaching you.This would be true even if the undercover cop was driving a Cooper Mini.
RE: Plain clothes Florida cop executes Black Church Drummer on I-95 - RolloTheGreat - 10-25-2015
(10-24-2015, 09:30 PM)SteelCrysis Wrote:(10-24-2015, 06:45 PM)dmcowen674 Wrote: Point is you have no idea who is approaching you.This would be true even if the undercover cop was driving a Cooper Mini.
Kind of the point of being "undercover" isn't it?
What I think is saddest about it all is threads like this, and news hype, may have contributed to this guy's death.
What if this gentleman bought his gun because he's seen all the "white cops have declared it open season on black people" hype and he was afraid? Unmarked cop approaches him and he thinks "It's me or him!" because all day long he sees guys like Dave talking about the roadside execution squads. (and for his part the cop thinks the guy is trying to kill him and shoots first)
There's no doubt 30% of the people shot by cops are black guys and there's no doubt that a small number are shot for bad reasons. (some of the white guys too, we had a hippie musician killed in Madison,WI a few years ago as well, unarmed, on dope, scuffled with cops, shot)
But this isn't Civil War times. We have a black president and the front runner in the Republican party is a black brain surgeon. Most of us are smart enough to realize we're all people who need to get along together and care more about what a person is like as a person than what color he or she is.
The media hype surrounding this is as bad as the Republicans vs Democrats, rumble for our souls BS.