Quote:What do you have to hide?

Quote:Since you actually have nothing to hide, why are you so scared?

Quote: Aren't you the same person who whines about corporations writing laws to benefit themselves?

Quote:Aren't you the same person who installs parental control software to watch what your kids do on the internet?

Quote:It enables drugs that are illegal for a good reason

Quote:It enables child porn lovers.

Quote:That person is thinking about how electronic privacy has enabled one of the worst kinds of criminals on earth to engage in their toxic activities more easily than ever before.

Quote:Much like the FBI's extralegal war against the KKK in the 60s and 70s drove it into near oblivion.

Quote:People who implicitly call for trading freedom to child porn lovers, drug dealers, and more, in exchange for their own security from "teh gubmint" deserve neither freedom nor security, and are bound to lose both. And if I were President of the USA, privacy advocates would lose both and die. Not to mention privacy software would be not only illegal, but blocked at the DNS level. If you were using Tor, you couldn't even access the internet in my USA.

(11-10-2015, 01:33 PM)ocre Wrote: whoa

did you just say if you were president, all privacy advocates would die?

So you rant and rave about criminals who commit crimes you are against but in the same note you talk about a total mass murder of people just because they have a different view on things that you?  

WOW

(11-10-2015, 07:01 PM)BenSkywalker Wrote: I put clothes on every day. I'm not terribly modest, but I'd rather not have everything visible to everyone at all times. I'm assuming you must be nudist to say something like that, clearly you want everyone to see everything you do.

Quote:I'd be 'scared' that some bumbling half wit not even capable of making it through basic trainer would be capable of accessing and exposing them for the grotesquely inept organization that they are, kind of like just what happened. You seem to be operating under the assumption that these people are competent. They have proven they are not. Outsourcing data mining to private contractors? This is like why don't we trust the dunk guy at the bar with the buttons to the nuclear weapons. They have *PROVEN* to be inept. Am I a fool who thinks the CIA operates any differently? Absolutely not, yet we don't hear shit about what they do. You are OK trusting all of your information to a bunch of half wits who leak their activity all over the internet. I am not. This is not a fear issue, it is a reasonable level of intelligence issue.

Quote:Yes, I am a rather ardent supporter of the Constitution. Corporations having laws written that are in direct violation of the 10th amendment(the most common violation) are disturbing and should be ceased immediately and then rolled back to a place that supports the bill of rights.

Quote:You need a babysitter, I don't. I get it.

Quote:

Quote:It enables child porn lovers.

Actually, net neutrality does that to an even greater extent.

Quote:On a technological basis it would be trivial to shut them down. It is currently illegal to do so. It happens widely now, with the NSA going bonkers spying on everyone and everything, it is also entirely outside of the scope of what they can use it for.

Quote:Or the war they waged on the mafia and organized crime in general. They did such a good job, street violence exploded and the day to day threat to normal people is *significantly* higher now than what it was prior.

Quote:That is net neutrality. End net neutrality and shut the NSA down on the same day and we will be *FAR* closer to fixing those problems than we are with the NSA as it is, or hell, even with an exponential growth factor thrown in. Tor is easy as fuck to shut down, it isn't legal to do so.

(11-10-2015, 09:02 PM)SteelCrysis Wrote:

Quote:Or the war they waged on the mafia and organized crime in general. They did such a good job, street violence exploded and the day to day threat to normal people is *significantly* higher now than what it was prior.

Wrong criminal orgs, son. You can blame the less ruthless War on Drugs for that.

(11-10-2015, 09:02 PM)SteelCrysis Wrote:

(11-10-2015, 07:01 PM)BenSkywalker Wrote: I put clothes on every day. I'm not terribly modest, but I'd rather not have everything visible to everyone at all times. I'm assuming you must be nudist to say something like that, clearly you want everyone to see everything you do.

Activity isn't the same as clothing, pal.

(11-11-2015, 01:31 AM)ocre Wrote: Yep...... and it is pretty much sociopathic

And if I were President of the USA, privacy advocates would lose both and die.

Killing people because they have hold different views, even fantasizing or imagining death to people because you dont share their outlook......it is quiet disturbing.

Like.....truly off the deep end.

(11-11-2015, 05:07 AM)BoFox Wrote: Can't we just be happy that the mafia and organized crime aren't much of a problem around here these days, thanks to the efforts of RICO, ATF, FBI, CIA, etc.?  Now, corrupt cops are more of a problem than the mafia, and yet do we still want it to be even more of a corrupt police state around here?  The NSA could easily be a medium of "organized crime" by the government that wishes to do away with certain minorities like a Native American tribe going on a riot to keep their properties on the reservation tax-free as promised for the past several decades.

Clothing is also a verb - an action, LOL.  Is it ok for the NSA to fly a million of night-vision drones around our neighborhoods, peeking thru the windows to see if you were sorting and weighing bags of cocaine to sell when you were actually only preparing xylitol toothpastes or stevia sweetener packages to sell on Ebay?  Like as if we don't have enough satellites and road cameras watching every car on the road.

Maybe the NSA gets bribed by the FDA and pharmaceutical industry - they won't like you selling anti-fluoride toothpastes, so they try to set you up as a cocaine dealer or at least a mule?  They don't like you competing with the bigger companies by selling homemade stevia powder for cheap, advertising health benefits of such over high fructose corn syrup, so they tip you off to the NSA's to-do list (of setting you up for some jail time just to screw you up a bit psychologically - without letting you know what's really going on - hoping that you give up on doing stuff like that when you get out of jail, and just turn to alcoholism and depression), etc.. etc.

Quote:Illicitly produced desomorphine typically contains large amounts of toxic substances as a result of being "cooked" and used without any significant effort to remove the byproducts and leftovers from synthesis. Injecting any such mixture can cause serious damage of the skin, blood vessels, bone and muscles, sometimes requiring limb amputation in long-term users.[7] Causes of this damage are from iodine and phosphorus (and other toxic substances) that are present after synthesis. The large volume of tissue damage/infection is what gained the drug its nickname of the flesh-eating drug, as homemade versions made by suppliers and users contain multiple impurities and toxic substances that lead to such tissue damage/infection (the pure form of the drug itself would not cause this damage).[15] Gangrene, phlebitis, thrombosis (blood clots), pneumonia, meningitis, septicaemia (blood infection), osteomyelitis (bone infection), liver & kidney damage, brain damage and HIV/AIDS are also common amongst users of krokodil.[12] Sometimes, the user will miss the vein when injecting the desomorphine, creating abscess and causing death of the flesh surrounding the entry-point.[7] Test subjects were subjected to desomorphine intake. The completed tests on animal subjects produced results that contrast desomorphine to morphine. Compared to morphine, the results show increased toxicity, more potent relief of pain, higher levels of general depression, decreased respiration, and increased digestive activity.[16]

Quote:Activity isn't the same as clothing, pal.

Quote:They are competent

Quote:Incidentally, the CIA couldn't kill Fidel Castro in decades of trying, and didn't see Benghazi coming, so I wouldn't use them as an example of competence.

Quote:You think meth damages the human body? Krokodil massively disintegrates your flesh. Go look up photos of people who use it, I don't want to.

Quote:Pal, DNS blacklisting is happening right now, without having anything to do with the NSA.

Quote:Wrong criminal orgs, son. You can blame the less ruthless War on Drugs for that.

Quote:You are honestly suggesting that people who give fair treatment to data are supporting child porn, rather than privacy advocates giving enabling tools to everyone including child porn lovers? Net neutrality doesn't enable anything.

• Does anyone else think it's just too convenient that the mainstream media would have us believe that the NSA somehow hasn't actually found a single terrorist plot?
  
• Does anyone else think it's just too convenient that the stories about the Paris attackers using encryption had to be retracted under pressure from a flood of counteracting stories?
  
• Does anyone else think it doesn't make sense for the media to claim that prior knowledge of the Paris attackers from electronic surveillance means that electronic surveillance itself is a failure? After all, espionage and cryptanalysis warned about a general Japanese attack on the USA, but no one in the world claims that the entire world should have abandoned espionage and cryptanalysis because of Pearl Harbor. By the media's standard, the USA should have done just that.
  

(11-12-2015, 08:49 PM)BenSkywalker Wrote: Largest intelligence leak in history and it came about from an outside contractor. That is a new level of idiocy.

Quote:I don't see a ton of information about our governments inner workings pouring out of Langley, do you? I also did not critique the NSA failing to see various terrorist attempts from happening either. What I do bash them for is randomly letting all this information get on the internet through a fucking outside contractor.

Quote:DNS blacklisting Tor........ You don't know how this shit works, do you? Let's say DNS is a giant phonebook, Tor doesn't have any phone numbers listed. Actually, Tor can't natively support DNS- wrong networking protocols altogether(but still protected by net neutrality).

Quote:When the mafia was still around, typical citizens were safer than they are today, by a lot.

Quote:Fair treatment to data. Online child porn is data. Fair treatment to data. Online child porn is data.

Net neutrality makes it against the law to block all Tor traffic. It's a thing. We could do it now, but it appears that you actually care about data being treated equally, so you aren't willing to give that up. Other people care about privacy, they aren't willing to give that up.

So, when someone else becomes president, should you be executed for supporting child porn because you want all data to be treated 'fairly'. Online child porn is data- are you going on record saying it should be treated equally to the poison control center?

You may think I'm against Net Neutrality, I'm not per se, but it sure as fuck isn't as cut and dry as a lot of knee jerk reactionists try and make it out.

(11-14-2015, 12:16 AM)BoFox Wrote: Interesting film regarding the NSA - real stuff.  Real shit:

https://citizenfourfilm.com/

Very high review scores:
http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/citizenfour/

Wiki description:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citizenfour

As of 2013, it was confirmed that there are over 1.2 million closely scrutinized on a terrorist watch list.  It's not just Police State, but Surveillance State (and World).  Brazil is pissed about how much the NSA is snooping into Brazil's aggregate network, consuming a large percentage of the bandwidth of the entire nation.  Gobs and gobs of bandwidth is being used up by the NSA all across the world, especially Europe as well.

Quote:Mistakes are inevitable, pal.

Quote:Maybe you aren't looking in the right places. Moles happen in every intelligence agency.

Quote:Adapting DNS or another link in the chain to block Tor shouldn't be a problem.

Quote:The people who lived in Bulger's day might disagree with you.

Quote:Somehow fair treatment enables people, rather than technologies?

Quote:People can call themselves whatever they want to sound good. As the quote falsely attributed to Upton Sinclair says, "When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross." But does making all these movies (this is hardly the first privacy advocacy movie) amount to anything other than the sheep from Animal Farm baaing "Privacy good, NSA b-a-a-a-a-a-a-d"?

BTW, Brazil has recently ended its objections to the NSA: http://foreignpolicy.com/2015/06/16/brazil-nsa-spying-surveillance-economy-dilma-rousseff-barack-obama/ Who wants to bet the reason for this is because Brazil has set up its own version of the NSA?

Another example of the mainstream media's Big Lie against the NSA came to mind. Remember when the Equation Group was found? It had similarities to Stuxnet. Did the media say it could be the NSA and Israel working together again, or just Israel? Nope. The NSA took sole blame with no conclusive evidence whatsoever that they were even partially responsible.

Quote:“The American government’s posture did change. The [U.S.] president made it clear in his last conversation with Rousseff in Panama that if he wanted to know something about Brazil or the president, he will call her and not use other means,” he said.

Quote:In October 2011, a research team from ESIEA claimed to have discovered a way to compromise the Tor network by decrypting communication passing over it.[117][118] The technique they describe requires creating a map of Tor network nodes, controlling one third of them, and then acquiring their encryption keys and algorithm seeds. Then, using these known keys and seeds, they claim the ability to decrypt two encryption layers out of three. They claim to break the third key by a statistical-based attack. In order to redirect Tor traffic to the nodes they controlled, they used a denial-of-service attack.

Quote:Of course, the White House knew about 9/11 threats before it happened.  Bush wasn't surprised when he heard the news of WTC being struck.  I think the NSA knew about the Paris attacks before they happened, but it was France who simply underestimated the whole thing - mainly focusing on protecting the president first and foremost.

Quote:Hey Ben, do you think that the NSA can monitor Tor as they wish?

Quote:BTW, please take it easy on sniping SteelCrysis with every sentence, lol - you sure do realize that you're extremely confrontational in response to his jabs, but I think you're really going for the kill here!

Quote:It has long been my assumption that we (citizens) don't get to know 1/1000th of what the government knows, and for very good reason:

1. If you actually think that ending encryption as a whole will actually damage the economy when the security sieves that businesses are these days give much lower-hanging fruit to criminals, and that there is no such thing as restricting web encryption to ecommerce and other legitimate activities, TomCruiseLaughing.gif.
   
2. If you actually think encryption doesn't protect child predators, TomCruiseLaughing.gif.
   
3. If you actually believe their Chewbacca defense that a child predator will actually be able to use any of the information from toy leaks to actually interact with a child, TomCruiseLaughing.gif.
   

Quote:It's all a delicate balancing act between organizational privacy and the governments of the world. Sure, certain governments can spy all they want, but then powerful organizations who do not want to be spied upon just build even stronger countermeasures. Sometimes, it's a good thing after all - especially if some of us just want some privacy. Government intrusion isn't always a good thing for security, as government does not always = security for every well-meaning citizen.

Quote:It was the government that wiped out Native Americans, brought slavery to America, imprisoned millions upon millions of people for recreational marijuana use since the 30's, etc.. etc.. etc..

Quote:"""Leaked documents showed NSA agents also spied on their "love interests," a practice NSA employees termed LOVEINT."""

Quote:"""The NSA was shown to be tracking the online sexual activity of people they termed "radicalizers" in order to discredit them.[142]"""

Quote:"""German Chancellor Angela Merkel, who said "spying among friends" [from the NSA spying on her] was "unacceptable"153]"""

Quote:"""Following the revelation of "Black Pearl", a program targeting private networks, the NSA was accused of extending beyond its primary mission of national security. The agency's intelligence-gathering operations had targeted, among others, oil giant Petrobras, Brazil's largest company.[143]"""

Quote:"""revealed that the NSA was paying U.S. private tech companies for "clandestine access" to their communications networks.[157]"""

Quote:"""Leaked slides revealed in Greenwald's book No Place to Hide, released in May 2014, showed that the NSA's stated objective was to "Collect it All," "Process it All," "Exploit it All," "Partner it All," "Sniff it All" and "Know it All."[160]"""
(^^^ Exploit my nakedness? A guy working at the NSA could force you to let him fuck your exotic wife once a month, or else set you up as a child porn lover.)

Quote:"""In an August 2014 interview, Snowden for the first time disclosed a cyberwarfare program in the works, codenamed MonsterMind. The program would "automate the process of hunting for the beginnings of a foreign cyberattack". The software would constantly look for traffic patterns indicating known or suspected attacks. What sets MonsterMind apart was that it would add a "unique new capability: instead of simply detecting and killing the malware at the point of entry, MonsterMind would automatically fire back, with no human involvement". Snowden expressed concern that often initial attacks are routed through computers in innocent third countries. "These attacks can be spoofed. You could have someone sitting in China, for example, making it appear that one of these attacks is originating in Russia. And then we end up shooting back at a Russian hospital. What happens next?"[15]"""

Quote:Of all the major NSA revelations, this has to be one of the most frivolous. Certainly, Snowden has a point that international aggression should not be automated, whether physical or cyber in nature. Still, there is a discreet change in function between revealing an illegal spying programs like Optic Nerve and something like this which is, in reality, exactly what the NSA is supposed to be doing. As scary as the name “MonsterMind” sounds, cyber missile defense is specifically what we should be supporting, so as to avoid giving the NSA the impression that it literally can’t do anything without being called tyrannical.

Snowden argues that the metadata analysis necessary to make MonsterMind work, even defensively, is too invasive — but sniffing for malicious transmission types is precisely what the NSA is supposed to be doing with metadata. Additionally, Snowden’s first worry is based mostly on the idea that the NSA wouldn’t know much about the sender or receiver of the transmission, and would thus be acting blindly. This seems like a trumped up issue.

Let’s keep the scale of these retaliatory cyber attacks in mind; Snowden uses the example of a Russian hospital as a possible mistaken target, but if this did happen the result would be minimal. Even if the NSA was incapable of noticing such an obvious ploy, most of these attacks are investigative or malware-installing — they’re not causing explosions or anything. While I respect the rights of world citizens to be secure from spying, the NSA is simply keeping pace with global trends here; they’re unlikely to get the US in too much hot water with other countries since by doing so those other countries would open themselves to the very same international criticisms in the future. This is a much more questionable use of the whistleblower label than Snowden has embodied until now.

Perhaps Glenn Greenwald and others held back on a MonsterMind revelation because they decided there wasn’t a great enough public interest to warrant the possible dangers — though perhaps not, given that the Intercept retweeted a link to the MonsterMind article. This ambiguity is exactly why Snowden left releases up to The Guardian and others in the first place: they have large teams of lawyers and experts (not to mention representatives from the government) to provide perspective and make these decisions in a responsible way.

Again, to criticize the NSA for this program, in the context of its prior transgressions, is to say that all intelligence work is equally illegitimate. This isn’t just basically unfair, it also makes abuses far more likely — if you’re accused of criminal activity no matter what you do, it’s very easy to create a culture in which virtually anything is permitted. There are definitely problematic aspects to the MonsterMind program, but this is ultimately a well-intentioned initiative with some weaknesses, not a fundamentally invalid one designed from the ground up to subvert domestic and international justice. Let’s keep that distinction in mind.

I have been never-endingly impressed by Snowden’s ability to stick to his convictions and maintain the moral high ground over the past year or so. A big part of that has been his decision to stick with (or, depending on your point of view, hide behind) the journalistic organizations he entrusted with state secrets. We don’t know the specifics that led to this Wired interview, nor what Snowden’s personal or financial situation is today. There could be any number of factors leading to this shift in behavior — but he needs to be careful. His integrity is all that’s kept him in the running for acceptance by the American public; if he loses that, he’s lost everything.

• Companies are not people, and should not be able to challenge the government for any reason. They should only be permitted to challenge each other. I wonder if he's saying this on behalf of his corporate masters?
  
• Warrantless electronic surveillance does not violate the 4th Amendment, and no amount of repeating this lie will make it so. The 4th Amendment was designed to prevent negative effects from physical search warrants, while require 1) physical invasion, 2) search of their property, and 3) removal of property. Electronic surveillance does not involve 1 and 3, and if the user is unaware of specific searches on them, it does not involve 2.
  
• More LOVEINT FUD.
  
• FISA court FUD, which  they don't bother to provide any source for.
  
• Does the writer of this article honestly think that in this atmosphere of demonization, the FBI and NSA have anything to gain by being honest about the purpose of stingrays?
  
• Backdoors can simply be made better, or the NSA can just be allowed to actively monitor with locally hosted programs that send their encrypted results back to the NSA.
  
• The only part this FUD article gets partially right is that there's no tightrope to walk. Corporations should not have any influence to affect the federal government. That includes campaign contributions, and that includes obstructing the federal government.
  

(12-19-2015, 05:57 AM)gstanford Wrote: I agree on the "companies are not people" part.  This (treating companies as though they were people) has been one of the greatest fuckups of all time and is directly responsible for a lot of the bullshit that has transpired in my lifetime.

It should be written out of law asap.

Quote:Warrantless electronic surveillance does not violate the 4th Amendment,

Quote:A dog-sniff inspection is invalid under the Fourth Amendment if the the inspection violates a reasonable expectation of privacy. Electronic surveillance is also considered a search under the Fourth Amendment.

(12-20-2015, 05:56 AM)SteelCrysis Wrote: Just an interesting note:

The notion that privacy advocates could be put to death is not that far fetched. Advocating the use of software for everyone, including child predators, when that software would make it easier for them and other criminals to get away with their crimes and the advocates know it, is just one step away from encouraging people to commit a horrible crime even after they know it is being committed. The latter was the legal principle that justified the hanging of Julius Streicher by the IMT: http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?p=1539922#p1539922

Edit: It also has a potential basis in U.S. law: http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?p=1540013&sid=5d647b5307d300570cd55c349e34ca2b#p1540013

Edit 2: All of this would only apply to people who advocate privacy software in general or specifically. Those who confine themselves to to reforming the NSA or restricting it do not deserve death.

Edit 3: On second thought, forget about the death penalty. It's too severe.

(12-20-2015, 09:50 AM)gstanford Wrote: Ok, now you need to post your law degree and where you got it from and what you specialize.  Otherwise why would anybody believe what you think vs a prestigious university opinion?

I await your reply.  This should be good.....