Posts: 2,310
Threads: 59
Joined: Mar 2015
(08-09-2016, 05:09 PM)ocre Wrote: Lol
The post would get deleted and I would be perma banned. Absolutely no way they would let this information stand. Amd pays good money to misled on forums and anandtech could care less about truth and facts. The mod would say that my post was removed because it offended members then ban me for "stirring the pot"
https://forums.anandtech.com/threads/ste...423/page-3
I saw this thread on AT yesterday with valid numbers from STEAM showing .11% for 480, and over .5% for both 1070 and 1080.
An AMD shill said the numbers are a lie, with nothing to back his claims, and stated everyone knows there was no supply of Pascal chips to buy.
Now the mods have closed it because it shows people aren't buying 480s and AMD doesn't want that information known.
Posts: 754
Threads: 11
Joined: Feb 2015
So the thread is locked? Already locked, I checked out, skimmed the last page and just saw a bunch of people claiming steam hardware survey is totally useless...
As strange as that claim may be, the last page wasnt an out of control fight..seemed civil.
So now they lock threads even when there is no huge nasty fight? They lock threads just because now...I mean, simply posting steam survey results is lock/ban worthy? Wow
Sure, steam shouldnt be considered the end all on hardware sales. But it is real data. Its happens to be a good representation of the steam user base. Its as accurate as any statistical data set these days....which happen to be pretty accurate.
A valid counter argument would be that not all people buying 480s would have steam, bring up miners...The dead horse they always beat on. And I am sure, even though I haven't looked thru that thread, there is probably at least some mention of that. Its a play from the old play book. And, I would actually wager that some of the people in the market for a 480 pirate games. Pretty much, those are the things that would skew the steam survey results. But geez...We are talking a gap of 5 times. Thats pretty hard to explain away.
The data I have offered was from Amazon. While not very scientific..this represents true sales of gpus thru Amazon. My observation was independent, actually I wasnt even looking. See, this list updates and I see it daily. Any one can, go to Amazon and look at top seller graphic cards from amazon. Set up notifications and there is no work in it.
I was surprised that the 480 is not at least hitting top 20. I actually never seen it on the top 20. I seldom go thru to the end, but its been a huge surprise for me...the 480 should be on the front page consistently. I never seen it there. Perhaps it came and went, as I dont check every single hour. But I have seen the list many many times, multiple times a day. Few days I have missed..how can it be so popular and not on this list. It should be in the top 5, actually top slot.
There is no way I can fathom the 480 being a huge success when the 3x more expensive 1080 is outselling it, much less the 1070 or 1060.
Top 20 top sellers.. The 480 has not been dominating sales.
I guess we can disregard Amazon too. Nvidia must be paying them off..lol!!!! Even though these are specific models, partner cards. Evga, msi, gigabyte.
Cant trust steam, cant trust amazon. I think the internet must have it out for amd.
Sadly, the 750ti and 960...heck even fermi cards mame up the top 20. All cards considered failure s and bad buys...all beating the 480 in sales. In amazon at least. Perhaps everyone buys their amd 480 from somewhere other than the biggest online site. I have glanced at a few other sites but have yet to spot the 480 topping the list.
So, amd 480 buyers dont use steam the biggest pc gaming service and they dont use Amazon, the biggest online distribution outlet.
Hmm...just nuts...nuts I tell you
Posts: 754
Threads: 11
Joined: Feb 2015
(08-10-2016, 09:29 AM)gstanford Wrote: Well, anybody who didn't think that forum was an AMD shill site has proof positive now.
A thread locked simply because the steam survey has the potential to paint AMD in a bad light.
How fucking pathetic! Its undeniable evidence. Sadly, amd has their claws in every major forum these days. But Anand is one they have completely gobbled up. Its their part of their scheme. Try to appear popular and cool by infiltrating social media and websites with countless red team advocates who work as a team to spread propaganda, bash nvidia, and push their products. Anand is an extension of that program. They went after one of the biggest tech forums ever and turned it into an amd marketing haven...this place is an amd wet dream come true. The red team live their in this fantasy place..
an alternate universe where amd is by far superior. If all you knew was Anandtech, nvidia would only represent 10% of the market, amd the other 90%. Anand tech is a place where real doesnt exist, where the most popular game of all time is ashes of singularity. Where the 480 is truly faster and better than the 1080 in every way. Heck, if nvidia ever wins a benchmark, its called brute force. The power hog 480 is elegant and sexy, somehow its superior technology....I mean, I can go on for days.
Anand is a satire forum where reality not only ceases to exist...it absolutely is not welcome. They eject any post or thread that doesnt fall in line. Almost every thread is full of bologna, I mean some of it is really far out there stuff. Much of it is, actually. Kindo of like Charlie Ds semiaccurate crap. Like, completely made up bs articles that have no basis in reality. Anand forum is the manifestation...The fake made up articles...amd wanted more. So they created a fake forum that alternates from reality. Its how they hope to sell more video cards..what a plan..
You know, I kind of was playing around but come to think of it...the timing is interesting...charlie became a paid site around the same time Anand converted and was brought by amd. See, it wasnt too long after apoppin left.
Amd even had a portal in anand. This came when they were way to comfortable with their results. And, their arrogance came out. Which was shown in the amd portal and logos all over anandtech. I think they have since realized that people started seeing it as an amd mouth piece. They pulled the portal
I truly wonder how much anand popularity dropped ocer the years. I feel like it has to have. You see the same posters now more than ever. I bet its significantly less than it used to be years back. You can buy and make fake forum, but you cant expect it would somehow change reality. It doesn't work like that
Posts: 2,310
Threads: 59
Joined: Mar 2015
You guys are just seeing now what I took to begin with.
ATi/AMD has been making an orchestrated effort for a lot of years to control forum communication. The forums aren't so innocent either.
Some of the forums tried to shake me down for ad money. When I told them I was just a hobbyist who got some engineering samples to evaluate, they banned me. Said I needed to pay. (AMD probably does)
There were guys that followed me around forum to forum, complaining to the mods about me posting there.
At one forum the owner told the mods they had to choose a side- ban me for AMD, or lose mod status. The mods said I hadn't violated TOS.
Now they attack EVERYONE who isn't with them and it's pretty easy to see what they're up to. Then it was more undercover.
Posts: 2,310
Threads: 59
Joined: Mar 2015
In a sad way, it's kind of fascinating watching the whole decline of AMD.
I wonder if the Advocates are basically some sort of rogue band now, underneath the radar of AMD corporate because they have more pressing issues with Zen and Vega delays.
People on tech forums always act like they are the be-all end-all marketing vehicle, but I don't think so. I think reviews/benchmarks are the only thing that matters now as the forums die.
Posts: 754
Threads: 11
Joined: Feb 2015
What do you mean rollo? The advocates rogue? Its not like they were ever in on amd meetings or that important management ever spent time with them. Amd done this in a whole new level. Their program is and was always very different than a couple guys shilling. This was something way bigger.
The plan was different, the goal was different
Amd green lighted the program. This program took in as many people as they could with a very different goal. They wanted to influence mindshare. Their brand was not popular so they gathered many many people to advocate and promote amd. Influence by appearing to be popular and preferred. This is why much of their advocates bash nvidia consistently. The goal was to change the perception. Amd, the popular and cool brand.
There have been thousands of advocates. This is nothing like anything we have seen. They have infected all corners.
All the while, AMD popularity has been diminishing. The make up less than 20% of the graphics cards sold. Its really insane that most forums now have more pro amd nvidia bashers. They are not at all thar popular. Just look, All this talk about ashes of singularity...This is a game that has sold merely 60,000 copies. Its not popular at all yet it dominates the conversation in every forum. A game amd invested in which is pretty meaningless... and their advocates spread it around so much it appears to be this huge deal. Its just a small generic crappy looking game that few bought and even fewer play. Yet, its made out to be this huge title, huge success that shows how advanced amd gpus are when it comes to meaningless frame rates in a crappy looking meaningless game.
Since amd spends so little on their advocates and so little to spend, they try to milk as much as they can out of it. Like the snow claims on their Polaris event...which resulted after an update of ashes, nvidia cards rendering of the snow changed after this update. And wouldnt you know, here is and trying to slander saying "pascal is not rendering the scene correctly and is doing less work". We are talking about a crappy looking game that you have to zoom in on to see the difference. I highly doubt that Raja was playing ashes and noticed this. It was way to convenient to have an update from and amd sponsored game and then a few days later them blasting it hinting and suggesting nvidia cards were doing less work..Like it was a purposeful ploy.
You can see this several time since now. On forums, amd fans are posting videos of game footage...compressed videos with suspicious capture methods, like an out of focus camera capturing nvidia card footage while a crisp video capture card used for amd cards. Then they make a fuss saying nvidia has lower iq and they get away with it.
Amd has very different goals for their advocates. They all work hard in hope they will be given some free hardware. This program is super cheap for AMD as most of the advocates are working for nearly nothing. Just the hope they get noticed and get something free. Its a few people and the rest runs itself. Very little money for them
Posts: 754
Threads: 11
Joined: Feb 2015
I just also want to point out...
Did any of you see the absolutely astonishing quarterly results from Nvidia? All the claims that the gp104 had supply issues and that Nvidia was making just trying to make it appear like they were selling out..That there want supply and it was a fake launch.. Yeah
What a freaking joke. First of, didn't make any sense. Nvidia announcing and launching pascal hwould hurt maxwell sales. If they didnt have stock, it would be shooting themselves in the foot. Why do this? The 980ti was safely on top and there was no pressure. Amd delusional fans say it was because Nvidia was threatened by polaris and Vega, they just had to paper launch. It's ridiculous.
Regardless, Nvidia quarterly results show clearly....They knocked it out of the park. Pascal had to be selling in numbers. They had unbelievable gpu results. So, here we see correlation. Amazon showed the 1080 and 1070 as top sellers going way back. Nvidia shows quarterly results that show huge surge in gpu segments.
Posts: 2,310
Threads: 59
Joined: Mar 2015
What I wonder is if the Advocate program has become kind of a Frankenstein program that AMD washes their hands of now.
Guys like Raja only have contempt for non tech people hissing lies on the tech forums. My guess is someone in PR at AMD sold them on the Advocate program once upon a time (who knows? might have even used some of my inflammatory posts as the justification) and that some doofus middle management long since gone greenlighted the expansion. Now it lurches on like a lumbering dinosaur, to dumb to know it's far outlived it's use.
Or it could be they know they don't have product to sell so they have to sell lies.
Hard to say.
Posts: 4,458
Threads: 904
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 2,310
Threads: 59
Joined: Mar 2015
(08-22-2016, 08:16 PM)SteelCrysis Wrote: Meanwhile: http://techreport.com/news/30551/amd-cla...rket-share
Its nice AMD is selling some parts, but I have a hard time caring at all about their "have old time performance at less watts" approach.
Posts: 754
Threads: 11
Joined: Feb 2015
(08-22-2016, 08:16 PM)SteelCrysis Wrote: Meanwhile: http://techreport.com/news/30551/amd-cla...rket-share
Interested in how a card released in july has any chance of being in the 2nd quarter 2016 marketshare data.
If I am not mistaken, mercury research doesnt count actual sales but uses some sort of formula based on anticipated gpu sales. Its on the front end. Chips being orded and Shipped, not actually sold to the end customer.
So if amd stuffs the channels, their marketshare will go up using this method. You will have to see if holds across the next few quarters. If the cards don't move, then there will be a significant drop off down the line. It may take a quarter or two to see it, but the big drop off to 18% last year..that is what happens. If you look at the 4 quarters leading up to it, amd pumped the channels full and was 30% according to mercury. Then the drop off when the channels quit ordering
Posts: 4,458
Threads: 904
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 4,458
Threads: 904
Joined: Feb 2015
AMD pays USD 335 million to get better fab flexibility: http://techreport.com/news/30600/amd-tak...lexibility
Posts: 1,531
Threads: 38
Joined: Feb 2015
(09-01-2016, 09:21 PM)SteelCrysis Wrote: AMD pays USD 335 million to get better fab flexibility: http://techreport.com/news/30600/amd-tak...lexibility
Wow. I have a feeling they saw how high the Pascal chips clock and they just realized that they are going nowhere with GlobalFoundries. If the RX480 could clock to 2ghz+ it would smoke the GTX 1060 and it would probably come close to the GTX 1080. It will be interesting to see how this pans out for AMD. They are currently bleeding cash badly. This is a huge investment for them at this point. They must absolutely have to do it in order to drop that kind of cash on this.
The whole GlobalFoundries thing was a joke from the start. They were screwed from the moment they signed that agreement. Their management has been inept. Maybe Lisa Su actually knows what she is doing.
Posts: 754
Threads: 11
Joined: Feb 2015
Hahaha
Sure sickbeast..sure..
Lol
But let's get foreal now. Its so easy to blame the node but its almost illogical considering that We had seen this trend start when both amd and nvidia were on the same 28nm node. Maxwell chips clocked higher, significantly higher, while using less power.
Nvidias huge gm200 was able to run at clocks nearly 150% of Amds latest 28nn GCN fury chips.
Its so easy to say, oh its the node..but you just have to be ignoring the past generations and the trend.
Nvidia claims that pascal was possible by huge investments in speed and lowering power consumption. They have achieved extremely disciplined voltage control with ripples and functions at a fraction of that in maxwell.
Perhaps nvidia was telling the truth, they invested in speed and power consumption. Seems hard to deny since they were already achieving higher clocks and lower power consumption in the same node as amd. I would imagine that doubling down on what theu have been doing...well that might be how they evolved maxwell to Pascal.
I just cant believe that its all the node, that tsmc is the only reason nvidia chips are running so high in clocks.
Also, this agreement for amd...its a little late for the 480. I expect this is a breaking loose that will benefit them in chips and nodes to come.
If u look into it, I don't know what AMD would do in the future. What are glofo plans after 14nm and how they dont stack up to the other fabs.
Dont get me wrong either. I cant say how much the 14nm node is hurting the 480 gcn chip. But if you look at the power consumption and density, its actually quite in line with what glofo prpjected for their 14nm node. You have to compare it to the gcn chips without hbm, like the 290x. It was amd who made these crazy wild 2.8x more efficient claims, glofo had much more modest figures for their 14nm projections.
I think it's real easy to write off nvidia achievements with Pascal. Easy to say its just the node, that its just maxwell on 16nm. Well, the gains are pretty impressive. Nvidia had no idea what amd was gonna achieve with 14nm. The glofo node is inherently more efficient, Samsung 14nm is vs tsmc 16nm. I believe Nvidia took this seriously and put a ton of effort and cash into getting the best result they could. That a lot was spent on achieving high speed and low power consumption. Just as Nvidia said. Its kind of dumb if they didn't. Nvidia had a team working far ahead just for future nodes so they can shift seamlessly and extract the most they can..They have had this team in place since the fermi stumble. They are very serious
Posts: 4,458
Threads: 904
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 4,458
Threads: 904
Joined: Feb 2015
AMD reportedly clearing out stock to make way for Zen: https://www.techpowerup.com/226423/amd-a...om-for-zen
Posts: 754
Threads: 11
Joined: Feb 2015
Cant wait to see zen reviews and performance analysis.
Seems a little strange that there is so little facts or figures being released..but it might just be that amd is playing it smart and holding their hand from the sights of intel.
But, that is out of character for amd. They usually hype and talk up every product so high that it falls flat after reviews.
They have done some hype talking on zen, but lately..I haven't seen much
Posts: 4,458
Threads: 904
Joined: Feb 2015
Zen will have RAM encryption to help AMD get server marketshare: https://www.techpowerup.com/226719/amds-...-solutions
Posts: 4,458
Threads: 904
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 2,310
Threads: 59
Joined: Mar 2015
(10-21-2016, 09:16 PM)SteelCrysis Wrote: And AMD records a $293 million loss for Q3: http://techreport.com/news/30845/strong-...rd-quarter
That is because of the genius of their move to capture $200 market share with Polaris!
Posts: 1,531
Threads: 38
Joined: Feb 2015
AMD can't afford to continue bleeding money like this. Zen and Vega have got to turn out well for them. Otherwise they are going to have to completely restructure or else go bankrupt. They cannot continue like this. If those product fail they will not remain in their current form.
Posts: 2,310
Threads: 59
Joined: Mar 2015
(10-22-2016, 10:37 PM)SickBeast Wrote: AMD can't afford to continue bleeding money like this. Zen and Vega have got to turn out well for them. Otherwise they are going to have to completely restructure or else go bankrupt. They cannot continue like this. If those product fail they will not remain in their current form.
I wonder. They have been limping along like this for a long time, it's possible they can limp forever?
I don't think there is any rule "A business must make money" although it is counter intuitive to think they can go on losing cash forever.
My guess is Sony or MS might buy them if they were at risk of going under, AMD would be pocket change for MS especially.
Posts: 1,531
Threads: 38
Joined: Feb 2015
IIRC AMD had about $2 billion in cash reserves not long ago. Once that money is gone, they are finished. If they keep bleeding cash at a rate of $1.2 billion per year, they will barely survive through 2017. Zen and Vega are their only hope.
Posts: 4,458
Threads: 904
Joined: Feb 2015
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2016/10/27/...e_servers/
Quote:AMD has deployed a team of folks to charm enterprise server users ahead of the debut of its Zen designed-from-scratch x86 processor microarchitecture and the message they're sending is that the new silicon represents a chance to supersize servers.
As explained to The Register by Vinay Sinha, AMD's senior director for enterprise in Asia Pacific and Japan, the company's plan is first and foremost to convince enterprise that Zen will be stonking x86 CPUs. Beyond that, the company will point out that its significantly-lower-than-Xeon prices mean a chance to supersize servers with other nice-to-haves, perhaps more RAM or some lovely AMD GPUs.
AMD's tried this play in the PC market, where its newly-hired enterprise sales folks have had some success in price-sensitive markets like government and education where buyers want maximum bang for buck and don't see challenger brands as a risk. Big PC-makers also enjoy the company's pricing, as it gives them different price points. Speaking to The Reg at the Canalys Channels Forum in Macau, Sinha takes great heart from the fact that the likes of HP Inc. now offer AMD-powered premium notebooks. HPE, he said, will offer enterprise servers based on Zen. He feels other top-tier manufacturers won't be shy about practicing Zen and the art of server design so they too can show Chipzilla it can't take their business for granted.
ARM servers, he added, were something AMD tried. But next year is all about Zen and an attempt to remind the market that Xeon is Intel's profit engine and deserves some competition.
As analyst Patrick Moorhead told The Register last week, AMD is on track with Zen if it can flawlessly execute a successful launch. No pressure on those new enterprise spruikers in Asia and beyond then. No pressure at all.
Posts: 754
Threads: 11
Joined: Feb 2015
Geez, what the heck is this?
As analyst Patrick Moorhead told The Register last week, AMD is on track with Zen if it can flawlessly execute a successful launch"
Thats when I realized...the freaking article is total bologna. Its a ridiculous statement/disclaimer. What garbage. Who the hell would expect amd to execute anything flawless considering their track record. I mean, its just crazy to read that. Amd has a proven track record that spans back for a decade now. Executing flawlessly...thats not a phrase that fits with AMD. Its kind of like a multi-billionaires and "homeless", its so bizarre it defies logic.
This is not even considering the situation...I mean, amd was all zen this and that..the chip is late and things got strangely quiet. I see red flags all over. Not just zen but vega as well. There is this undeniably massive penalty amd has to pay to glofo. Well...its obvious that amd did not buy wafers in the quantities they promised. The penalty is massive. Its larger than the profits amd has made in years. I mean, its an unimaginable cost to a company that barely and rarely makes any money.
What is not being talked about is how amd got here again, once again paying over a quarter billion dollars to glofo for failing to buy the quantities of wafers they contracted into.
How could the possibly be doing this again? This so called "one time" pay off, its not been long ago they were in this same mess. But how did this happen again?
Well....
There is this chip called zen that has not appeared. Then there is this other chip, vega.
Think about the huge amount of money amd lost in this glofo payment. These chips being pushed out are far more damaging than you might think. Cause every wafer that amd didnt buy to honor their contract, was money lost into thin air. Its a double whammy...considering the price of this penalty, quadruple.
Amd could not rationally let go of that type of cash. The reality, this is terrible. There would have to be some major issues..I mean, this is more money then they ever would have made off of vega. Its all burned away.
This is not something you do just because. It points to serous issues. Vega and zen, things did not pan out as planned. And it cost them dearly.
Posts: 2,310
Threads: 59
Joined: Mar 2015
(10-30-2016, 11:35 AM)ocre Wrote: Geez, what the heck is this?
As analyst Patrick Moorhead told The Register last week, AMD is on track with Zen if it can flawlessly execute a successful launch"
Thats when I realized...the freaking article is total bologna. Its a ridiculous statement/disclaimer. What garbage. Who the hell would expect amd to execute anything flawless considering their track record. I mean, its just crazy to read that. Amd has a proven track record that spans back for a decade now. Executing flawlessly...thats not a phrase that fits with AMD. Its kind of like a multi-billionaires and "homeless", its so bizarre it defies logic.
This is not even considering the situation...I mean, amd was all zen this and that..the chip is late and things got strangely quiet. I see red flags all over. Not just zen but vega as well. There is this undeniably massive penalty amd has to pay to glofo. Well...its obvious that amd did not buy wafers in the quantities they promised. The penalty is massive. Its larger than the profits amd has made in years. I mean, its an unimaginable cost to a company that barely and rarely makes any money.
What is not being talked about is how amd got here again, once again paying over a quarter billion dollars to glofo for failing to buy the quantities of wafers they contracted into.
How could the possibly be doing this again? This so called "one time" pay off, its not been long ago they were in this same mess. But how did this happen again?
Well....
There is this chip called zen that has not appeared. Then there is this other chip, vega.
Think about the huge amount of money amd lost in this glofo payment. These chips being pushed out are far more damaging than you might think. Cause every wafer that amd didnt buy to honor their contract, was money lost into thin air. Its a double whammy...considering the price of this penalty, quadruple.
Amd could not rationally let go of that type of cash. The reality, this is terrible. There would have to be some major issues..I mean, this is more money then they ever would have made off of vega. Its all burned away.
This is not something you do just because. It points to serous issues. Vega and zen, things did not pan out as planned. And it cost them dearly.
Unfortunately for computer gamers, you may well be right.
All of what you posted seems pretty likely.
Zen and Vega are definitely very late, and AMD does pay GloFo penalties for not buying chips. Their market share in all their markets except consoles is very small now.
Lights out AMD would end forums like this altogether. What would be people even talk about? "Well what do youj think intel and NVIDIA will launch this year?"?
Unlike others, I do not think this will mean wildly different prices. If intel and NVIDIA try that, people will shift to alternatives like tablets and phones, and the makers of chips for them might bring out console chips.
I don't think some "well now we all have to pay $1000 for a CPU and $1000 for a GPU? reality will come about.
Posts: 754
Threads: 11
Joined: Feb 2015
Computer gamers, for sure. But it would seem this is the tip of an iceberg.
For starters let's talk some on zen. This was supposed to be their savoir. They had all this, so much banking on zen. All the talking up on Zen and then the quiet. Its pushed out and out.
Think about how far back the Zen conversation goes. I mean, wth? Did they start talking it up when the chip was just dreamed up or something. We all know that chip design to fab takes a couple years. But, if we see Zen by late spring its been probably enough time for two architectures.
The talked up performance gains would have made zen mediocre at best, if it launched a couple years ago. Achieving Sandy (or even ivy) level ipc in 2017, that is just not anything to brag about. Its shaping up to be a huge failure.
The first things we heard about zen were huge ipc increase and single thread performance on par with intel. Then, in the last year, they started beating the same ole core count drum. Articles talking up zen as this special 16 core/thread cpu on enthusiasts websites.
Its great and all but what speed will the cpu run? The mhz?
And now, here we are. The discussion pivoted to servers. So, the enthusiasts power house with ipc and single thread performance on par with intel chips is converted...
"AMD is on track with Zen " (yeah crazy huh)
"But next year is all about Zen and an attempt to remind the market that Xeon is Intel's profit engine and deserves some competition."
Okay. So there we have it. Zen was made by amd to remind the market that xeon deserves some competition.
And just like that, zen the brand new powerful ground up architecture turns from the dream cpu for enthusiasts into a server chip designed to clW back marketshare from xeon. Seems somewhat familiar, why does it sound so familiar....oh, yeah..I remember. This is familiar because we have seen it before in another super hyped up amd architecture called BULLDOZER.
And intel is still doing everything it can to recover from that crushing amd gave them. /s
I dont think its easy to bust into the server playground these days. Amd has tried and tried again. Bulldozer wasnt a terrible server chip, it had no impact at all for amds traction in servers. Then amd followed others lead with serving the servers with arm cpus. They put down hundreds of millions to enter the server market with armed with Arm cpus. Might as well burned that cash to help heat their building, cause they would've for mute out of it. And now, here we are again. Zen, the server chip to show xeon needs competition.
Its surely not gonna be as powerful or as energy efficient as intel chips, but for some reason....This time, its gonna be successful and and its gonna win all the server contracts. Because, you know..it's cool name.
Wtf? I mean seriously, wtf?
Server markets are tightly held and its obviously not easy to break into. Even with the best perf per watt solutions. Zen, even on par with intels latest xeon would have a hard time gaining traction. Its not an open landscape ready to move in on. This is not a ripe place looking for new players.
Zen wont stand a chance against modern xeons. Not on any level. The significantly lower price point has won amd so much in the server market already, I guess double down on that strategy and somehow 2 billion times zero will equal huge piles of cash for amd.
Call me a pessimist but I am starting to see a major flop ahead. One that I have no idea how amd can bare. So, computer gamers have intel and no reason to buy amd. They have nvidia and barely any justifiable reason to buy amd. This is today, but the landscape only gets more dim.
You see, with each failure and slip..the competition is making huge strides and leaps. Its not likely amd can stay ahead with semi custom offerings when they keep falling further and further behind. Blunder after blunder, losing more money on penalties then they have made in the many many years. They cant corner the market for much longer when they cut deals with margins so low they dont make profits..they dont have the cash to put towards designing architectures that can keep pace with their competition. The semi custom sell out for amd only worked because it piggybacked off of their pc cpu and gpu designs. They sold chips with such low margins, this department cannot sustain on its own..
Amd has slipped so far in the pc market, and the gap we see now is nothing compared to chips coming down the line. As amd stumbles, nvidia and intel charge on full speed. AMD is probably not ever catching up. How can they depend on a semi custom branch that cannot fund the research and development of new architectures? The razor thin margins won them contracts but this is not a long term solution.
Its not long till others in the shrinking pc market decide they want some cash from elsewhere. And they will have better designs to offer, better performance per watt as well as overall lower power envelopes. Like we seen with Nintendo. Gcn and pildriver cores may have been good enough to settle for back when the ps4 was being designed. But with every year, the discount bargain amd offers will look less appealing when there are far more capable options that use far less power. And the point at which amd can afford to offer bigger chips for cut rate prices is running out, smaller, cheaper to produce yet more powerful chips continue to come from the competition. And sooner or later, amd wont be able to compete at all even with their cut rate razor thin margin strategy.
Think about this, 5%.
Thats amds margins right now. The claim is the write off contributed to this. A write off is a write off though, so I am not sure on that one..
Honestly, haven't looked or cared to look into the details. But point is, the 25% margins shrink and shrink. The margins so thin that amd is falling significantly behind, but at the same time, their cut rate bargain deals are hurting them more and more. As they loose ground in the markets that had somewhat of a margin, further and further down their margin drops. Its just a spiralling down the drain. There is no way to advance the technology on razor thin semi custom margins. There is no way for amd to keep pace with the margins they had in the last several years. Its really looking bed from my view. I dont see a way out of this for amd. Wonder how this plays out? Are they talking having exit strategy meetings yet? Even if its a yr away, surely they see the inevitable coming. A massive split, liquidation, or just a total collapse? What will it be?
Posts: 2,310
Threads: 59
Joined: Mar 2015
Very well written Ocre, and I can't say I disagree with you.
Years ago someone in the industry told me, "Lights out at AMD. They can't survive on their share of the graphics market, AMD is a much bigger company than ATi."
We may be seeing the endgame of that prediction. If Zen and Vega aren't premium products that command a high margin, AMD may well be toast.
Posts: 4,458
Threads: 904
Joined: Feb 2015
https://www.techpowerup.com/227494/amd-8...erformance
In the comments:
Quote:Oh Christ. Why must TPU repeat this crap? Zen can beat a 10-core Ivy Bridge (3rd generation) chip, which isn't saying much since Kaby Lake will mark the 7th generation of Intel's Core microarchitecture... and Zen was, supposedly, going to be on par with Haswell, the 4th-gen Core.
Quote:I can feel the RX480 Hype repeating......
Quote:Quote:Oh Christ. Why must TPU repeat this crap? Zen can beat a 10-core Ivy Bridge (3rd generation) chip, which isn't saying much since Kaby Lake will mark the 7th generation of Intel's Core microarchitecture... and Zen was, supposedly, going to be on par with Haswell, the 4th-gen Core.
? wtf are you on about? the V4 launched in 2016 is right above the "ivy bridge" variant and barely faster not to mention they don't indicate what speed the zen chip was at...serious fail there bud.
On the other side we have seen this from AMD before. Multi thread through the roof single thread in the gutter. So really I won't bother with multithread until they can prove single threaded operations can compete.
Posts: 2,310
Threads: 59
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 754
Threads: 11
Joined: Feb 2015
after watching that, my mind is blown...
I was wrong!!!
All along, I was wrong.
That video shined on me the light:
bulldozer is freaking awesome!!!
Why didnt amd use pinkfong bulldozer to promote his awesome their CPU is? Pinkfong and ruby, tearing and ripping up the earth and wrecking havoc with their awesome bulldozer...
Dang!! That thang be bad AS
Posts: 2,310
Threads: 59
Joined: Mar 2015
Mighty....POWER!
More seriously, if AMD "could" get to Ivy Bridge level without setting motherboards on fire that would be a HUGE victory for them.
Does anyone not using their PC for super high end work really "need" more than Ivy Bridge? If they got to 3770K cpu performance with better GPU I'd be pretty impressed. (and think they'd have a part they could sell)
Posts: 4,458
Threads: 904
Joined: Feb 2015
https://www.extremetech.com/computing/23...on-quarter
Quote:Any discussion of these trends inevitably raises the question of how and where AMD will offer competitive performance. Right now, we’re in the doldrums as far as competing directly with Nvidia’s high-end. We’ve known this would be the case until Vega launches, and I don’t think AMD is somehow critically behind simply because it’ll launch later than its competitor. Fermi, after all, debuted nearly a year after the HD 5000 family. It also took AMD nearly a year to build a decent competitor to Nvidia’s G80 back in 2006, and yet by 2008 the HD 4000 series was offering strong competition against Nvidia.
What Nvidia has done, that AMD doesn’t seem to have an answer for, is differentiate its GPUs into a variety of markets. OpenCL and HSA may be great on paper, but uptake has been nil. Three years after promising a version of Java that supported HSA and talking up multiple games and applications that would take advantage of Kaveri’s benefits, the number of HSA apps in the market is very nearly zero.
AMD’s Boltzmann initiative from last year was interesting and may be winning some small support, but the company needs to launch both Zen and Vega in the next few months. Based on their mutual performance, we’ll have a much better idea how well-positioned AMD is to slug things out in the CPU and GPU market. AMD’s console wins are what’s keeping the company alive these days, but it needs to demonstrate stronger performance in PC gaming or other segments if it wants to take on Team Green across the entire computer industry.
What’s particularly ironic about this, of course, is that after AMD announced that its future CPUs would actually integrate graphics chips, plenty of people thought this could be the end of Nvidia as a GPU manufacturer. Clearly, that’s not what happened. And while yes, there have been controversies in the gaming community about programs like GameWorks, Nvidia has done an excellent job winning business and executing its strategies in markets that have nothing to do with gaming or game performance.
Posts: 2,310
Threads: 59
Joined: Mar 2015
11-12-2016, 05:43 AM
(This post was last modified: 11-12-2016, 05:44 AM by RolloTheGreat.)
The future is fusion.
Never were truer words spoken in the business world because APUs are all that have kept AMD alive.
Holidays around AMD land have to be pretty bleak this year. Actually being a hardware enthusiast is kind of bleak this year. Intel and NVIDIA keep churning out better hardware, but without any competition it seems kind of anti-climactic.
Posts: 754
Threads: 11
Joined: Feb 2015
Its really gonna make a lot of hard ons soft when the next quarterly gpu sales report comes out.
There is not much chance that AMD gained all this market share their fans keep broadcasting to no end. There is now mounting and mounting data which suggest that there is not a big polaris surge. The uptick reported, it was for chip sales and not for individual cards sold to customers. So, it seems more like amd market share increase was just chips that went to vendors to fill the channels. There is pretty good reason to believe that Nvidia has continued to sale gpus at a decent rate. That the sales are strong and not in decline. For amd to be gaining market share, Nvidia would have to be losing it. Steam survey shows very little polaris adoption. AMD quarterly results are not supportive of amd gaining marketshare. Then there is this nvidia quarterly result, which is just another indication.
I think we will not see an amd claw back when gpu market share data comes out. Its probably gonna reflect a drop. If it does, there will be little doubt that the increase reported last quarter was not this big jump in cards being sold but just a result of polaris chips moving out to fill up channels and store shelves.
How long can AMD run on fumes like this? V
Posts: 2,310
Threads: 59
Joined: Mar 2015
That thread about the Polaris workstation cards being a "great deal" on ATVF amused me.
WTF?
When have workstation cards ever even been noted on ATVF? Not to mention these are totally feeble compared to NV counterparts.
Goes to show how desperate the Advocates are for something to talk about.
It's got to suck in the advocate corps in recent years.
290 launches with left over hair dryer howler fan.
390 launches to playing catchup.
Fury X launches to playing catch up.
Then, crickets chirp while NVIDIA launches wildly successful Pascal line.
AMD engineers beaver away putting together Vega while NVIDIA stockpiles Titan P chips with a failed cluster or won't run as fast, biding their time until they smash whatever Vega is with them. AFTER selling all their Titan Ps, 1080s, 1070s to everyone who cares about computer gaming.
Think how many people bought 1070s/1080s and will now buy 1080Tis- that is a business model AMD can only dream about.
Posts: 1,531
Threads: 38
Joined: Feb 2015
(11-13-2016, 03:15 PM)ocre Wrote: Its really gonna make a lot of hard ons soft when the next quarterly gpu sales report comes out.
There is not much chance that AMD gained all this market share their fans keep broadcasting to no end. There is now mounting and mounting data which suggest that there is not a big polaris surge. The uptick reported, it was for chip sales and not for individual cards sold to customers. So, it seems more like amd market share increase was just chips that went to vendors to fill the channels. There is pretty good reason to believe that Nvidia has continued to sale gpus at a decent rate. That the sales are strong and not in decline. For amd to be gaining market share, Nvidia would have to be losing it. Steam survey shows very little polaris adoption. AMD quarterly results are not supportive of amd gaining marketshare. Then there is this nvidia quarterly result, which is just another indication.
I think we will not see an amd claw back when gpu market share data comes out. Its probably gonna reflect a drop. If it does, there will be little doubt that the increase reported last quarter was not this big jump in cards being sold but just a result of polaris chips moving out to fill up channels and store shelves.
How long can AMD run on fumes like this? V
At the rate AMD is currently bleeding cash, they have one year left before they go bankrupt. They will probably have to completely restructure before that though if they want any chance at survival. They have everything riding on Zen and Vega. Both those products look like "too little, too late" to me. Zen looks more promising than Vega but I really don't see it being their salvation. We will see. Perhaps the server market is more lucrative than I realize.
Posts: 754
Threads: 11
Joined: Feb 2015
Its a rich market for sure. The problem is, threat its being well served already. Its not type and in need of just the product AMD is abouts to offer.
Intel had built great relations and infrastructure, they are well connected and well respected. The many .com and internet companies have consolidated, its not the wild west but a landscape of a few gigantic empires.
I dont see a great opportunity there at all. I mean, look at the list now of companies that totally got pushed out or failed trying to bust out a margin of the server market...Heck, AMD is one of them.
And then there is this other reality. Bulldozer was underperforming and a disappointment at many things, but as a server chip it actually didn't look so bad. This was it's bright spot...but it didnt make the slightest dent. Amd failed to successfully take marketshare, it just didnt happen for them.
If zen is able to match Sandy bridge ipc, its a dead duck in the server market. If amd can match haswell, its a dead duck if I had to bet. Amd would have to offer something pretty special to start flipping companies towards their cpu..and no one even expects parity.
When I read the later articles which were trying to frame Zen now as a server chip to show intel deserves some competition....that really made me lower my head. I cant imagine this to be good. Perhaps I am to negative.. But you know, the fact that we are moving from months late to years late, thats got to be something that contributes to myaxk of enthusiasm. For sure
Posts: 2,310
Threads: 59
Joined: Mar 2015
They're making the AMD Advocates wear santa suits for the holidays, and paying them with Polaris cards now!
Things have really gotten bad.
|
