Rollo

[SickBeast]

The foliage and the textures were also much nicer, plus you get better controls with the keyboard and mouse.

[RolloTheGreat]

The foliage and the textures were also much nicer, plus you get better controls with the keyboard and mouse.

With a good PC, you can make a game experience that makes consoles look sad.

Between 4K, 3d, surround, G-Sync/FreeSync, and all the AA flexibility, consoles are hopelessly outclassed.

[ocre]

Keyboard and mouse are better controls in some games. Actually, no contest.

But all the same, a controller is a must for others...at least for me.

There is no way I can play COD with a controller. At the same time, AC unity or watchdogs.....,they are terrible without a controller

[RolloTheGreat]

I would strongly dispute that keyboard/mouse are the better controls.

Sure if you spend enough money on a PC you can get a visual experience that is slightly better than what the console is capable of.  Means nothing unless you can build a PC capable of "4K, 3d, surround, G-Sync/FreeSync, and all the AA flexibility" while still being as fluid in the gameplay as the console for the $400 US the console will cost you.

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/sony-playsta...Id=2200028

I look forward to seeing the PC parts list that meets the criteria above (supplied by you, not me) and fits inside $400 US....

Oh, and did I mention those parts should be capable of running all future games up to 2018 and preferably to 2020 (will probably be 2022 before this current gen is finally obsolete and not having games written for it).

OK, PC gaming costs more money, but a PC is much more than a console. A PC can be your livelihood. (E.G. I could do all my remote training, first and second tier support with a PC, can't with a PS4 or XBone)

1080p gameplay is not hard to come by on a PC, even intels latest CPUs can manage that. The greater expense come from the greater capability.

[SickBeast]

You don't need a PC specced the same as one trying to properly take on PS4 to earn a livelihood or be an internet machine.

Intel's CPU's can't do 1080p at PS4 quality, they can't even do XBONE quality.

I don't need a console to have greater capability, I've got PC's in the house for when I need that.

The last time I checked pretty much all PS4 games are running at lower resolutions than 1080p.

It does not take much of a PC at all to match a PS4.

Even look at my rig, I might have paid $500 but it's at least twice as powerful, probably more than that actually.

---

Keyboard and mouse are better controls in some games.  Actually, no contest.  

But all the same, a controller is a must for others...at least for me.

There is no way I can play COD with a controller. At the same time, AC unity or watchdogs.....,they are terrible without a controller

The problem with the consoles is that there is no way to use a keyboard and mouse for those games. With the PC you can use a controller no problem if you want.

[ocre]

Yeah....
I bought a PS3 just to play gta5 when it first launched. It was painful to my eyes but I loved the game.

I just couldn't wait for the PC version. It was really tough playing a console, only if there is no other option will I again. When gta5 launched, we didn't know for sure there would be a PC version, most thought but no one knew. It took forever, but my prayers answered

[SickBeast]

I can't wait to get GTA V for the PC.

[RolloTheGreat]

Up until just a few days ago you didn't have a quad-core CPU  in it.  Your GPU would be barely adequate, a 4 gb GTX960 would be a closer match to PS4.  

http://www.extremetech.com/extreme/17137...-gpu-specs

Looks to me like a GTX960 is 18% faster at stock speed than the 7870 the PS4 has:

http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/MSI/G...ng/29.html

[BoFox]

This place just isn't the same as it once was. I think both of us should just post exclusively at btr.

If you want the place to be the same again, find a way to bring back Trollpoppin and BoFox.

Awwww..      :my:

Ya know, what happened was that I was on a 2-month vacation from the forums while moving and all that stuff.  After finally settling in the new house, etc..   I started posting on BTR and was hoping to see you guys over there but then realized that Poppin banned you, after you guys clashed. 

About ABT, I didn't know it was still alive and kicking with all of you guys here on the new forum.  I never registered for the new forum (IIRC) when it was still so buggy in its new stages, so I didn't bother coming back until TerribleBeast just made me realize that you guys were still causing a ruckus here.  Free speech here is great! 

Poppin's been doing great work with his reviews - I've been glad to discuss tech stuff with him..   however I miss the old days when we were all together and bitch-slapping each other - usually to the person who deserves it the most, lol.  Muahahaha!!

[ocre]

Well you know........

Apoppin left, we still here!!!

Always, gstanford.....
I bought the PS3 a long time ago, when gta5 first came out. Rockstar launched it only on the old platforms. I have no interest in the PS3 at all and the only action it ever sees is bluray movies in my child's bedroom and skylanders when they actually play the video game.

[RolloTheGreat]

  I never registered for the new forum (IIRC) when it was still so buggy in its new stages, so I didn't bother coming back until TerribleBeast just made me realize that you guys were still causing a ruckus here.  Free speech here is great! 

Poppin's been doing great work with his reviews - I've been glad to discuss tech stuff with him..   however I miss the old days when we were all together and bitch-slapping each other - usually to the person who deserves it the most, lol.  Muahahaha!!

Mark runs a lot of benches, but disagree with him and you're toast.

Personally I think he owes it to Dave to come back to ABT and end BTR.

Dave hosted his reviews for a lot of years and helped him establish whatever readers he has, pretty skeazy to just leave him high and dry because the site crashed.

We're not all slackers living on garden vegetables and Obamacare. I'm sure Dave has a full time job and can't just take a day off because Apoppins latest graph of benchmarks is off line.

[BoFox]

I feel ya, Rollo .. you still butthurt, lol!! Hahahahahahahahaha...

Obamacare is nothing like if your wife became a widow, left alone in that huge million-dollar mansion you left for her along with $5,000,000 in cash, or whatever.. and yet the government gives her $2000/mo Social Security welfare just because you died. THIS IS THE PROBLEM with the government and a whole generation of old baby boomers ready to bankrupt the country, with nothing to contribute except to the cable companies and the luxury nursing homes.

Poppin worked 100 hours for the Fury X review, then another week's worth of full time work for the latest driver evaluation. All within a short time. There was maybe 1 strange result with Far Cry 4 fps scores (with the Radeon 290X), but the newer driver showed a large improvement, and the settings that he used was different from what other reviewers used (he used higher settings than just the Ultra preset) so I like it as long as he's not proven wrong. Ya know, nobody ever proved his results to be fraudulent.. ever, in the last 6-7 years. So I'm not disagreeing with it.

Hey, it's his decision if he wants to post articles here on ABT as well as on BTR, but I don't think I can really do anything about what goes on between Dave and Mark. By the way, the benchmark chart images for some the old reviews on ABT are missing - the hosting is probably not properly allocating the images any longer.. like with the Kingston memory overclocking comparison charts, etc..

[RolloTheGreat]

I feel ya, Rollo ..  you still butthurt, lol!!  Hahahahahahahahaha...  

Obamacare is nothing like if your wife became a widow, left alone in that huge million-dollar mansion you left for her along with $5,000,000 in cash, or whatever.. and yet the government gives her $2000/mo Social Security welfare just because you died.  THIS IS THE PROBLEM with the government and a whole generation of old baby boomers ready to bankrupt the country, with nothing to contribute except to the cable companies and the luxury nursing homes.

Poppin worked 100 hours for the Fury X review, then another week's worth of full time work for the latest driver evaluation.  All within a short time.  There was maybe 1 strange result with Far Cry 4 fps scores (with the Radeon 290X), but the newer driver showed a large improvement, and the settings that he used was different from what other reviewers used (he used higher settings than just the Ultra preset) so I like it as long as he's not proven wrong.  Ya know, nobody ever proved his results to be fraudulent..   ever, in the last 6-7 years.  So I'm not disagreeing with it.  

Hey, it's his decision if he wants to post articles here on ABT as well as on BTR, but I don't think I can really do anything about what goes on between Dave and Mark.  By the way, the benchmark chart images for some the old reviews on ABT are missing - the hosting is probably not properly allocating the images any longer..  like with the Kingston memory overclocking comparison charts, etc..

Two things about this:

1. I live in an 1800 sq ft, 3 bedroom, 1.5 bath house. My fishing and hunting shack is just that- a rustic shack on a small backwoods lake that is totally unsuitable for any water sports other than duck hunting and fishing. No mansion, no millions, nada. The only reason it could be said we're doing better than a lot of people is both my wife and I can both afford this, so we have some disposable and security.

2. I agree Apoppin puts in a lot of time on his reviews, what I disagree with is the rest of us having to pay for guys like Apoppin choosing to do things that don't have an HMO in their benefit package. Do you think it would be honorable if we paid off our bills with our investments, quit our jobs today, said we're going to become Craigslist entrepreneurs. Spend all day scouring Craigslist for bargains, re-selling them at a profit, and file for Obamacare to pay for our healthcare. We're going to work 50 hours a week each looking for these bargains and meeting people in parking lots selling them. Buy our healthcare.

No. It's bullshit. It's one group of people entitled by law to take the earnings of another group, and the only criteria for the taking is choosing to do it. I could have a co-worker making $200K a year decide tonight his new job is scrubbing the rocks in the state parks with soap and a toothbrush because "they looked dirty" and you and I are paying for his HMO. Why? Because he thought the rocks looked dirty.

It makes no sense to me, and no good will come of it. One of the biggest motivations to move up in the world and provide for yourself is needing things like a HMO for you and your family. This helps America down the road to being a wasteland of slackers.

[ocre]

so did your insurance payments go up rollo?

If they didn't, then you aren't paying anything more than you were

[RolloTheGreat]

so did your insurance payments go up rollo?

If they didn't, then you aren't paying anything more than you were

I went from having four HMO options to two, and lost my doctor of over ten years.

The changes made due to ACA raised the price on the HMO I had and one of the others above what the company wanted to pay.

My loss is minor though- I still have low cost, first tier insurance and can pick between a few companies and using my wife's. I'm one of the lucky ones. Know people buying as single buyers who weren't so lucky.

Apoppin is more evidence of another need not being addressed in society than Obamacare, I actually think he "should" get it because he's a home caregiver for his mom. (and if he isn't doing it, we are as a society, so it seems practical the caregiver she would want most be eligible for some benefit for doing so)

The people I care about are the people who use it to force us to pay for their benefit package, or just subsidize their life of crime.

The people that

[BoFox]

LOL @ scrubbing the rocks with a toothbrush in a state park. At least that is a job, unlike a widow getting $2k a month while driving new Lincoln cars, wandering around in a million dollar home, and watching TV all day long. There will be gobs and gobs of widows out there doing nothing by next decade, when they don't need welfare, yet they take it because they can.

Poppin is doing a great service to the computer enthusiasts. He's nothing short of a legendary reviewer, benchmarking more games than anybody else on the planet, and also doing regular driver comparisons with ALL of those games. Plus the settings that he chooses for the games are usually more interesting than the settings that most other review sites use for example. He had to use his own money to buy a Fury X, which is honorable - somebody who chooses to do a great service rather than NOTHING. He's one of the very few elder persons who has done so much, rather than just pissing away social security by choosing to be unproductive.

How the government does business might be your business, but money isn't the end-all, be-all. The world isn't exactly fair. Celebrities strike the jackpot by saying a few entertaining lines that entertain millions of people across the world, and then no longer do anything productive but act a few weeks a year, or every other year. Others simply win the lottery and then do nothing productive.

Gotta go - be back tonight!

[RolloTheGreat]

At least in my case my widow will have worked her whole life, and been more successful than a lot of men.

Yes Apoppin does the gaming community (and hardware companies) a solid by slaving away on his benchmarks, but if either values it, they should be the ones to buy Apoppin's HMO. To most of the people paying for Apoppin's HMO, his benchmarks are probably even less meaningful than the guy who chooses to wash the park rocks with a toothbrush. The vast majority of people just don't care about benchmarks.

You can find pretty smoothed stones known as "agates" on the shore of Lake Superior, which can in turn be sold. If I quit my job today, start spending my days picking up shiny rocks and selling them, should society be forced to buy my HMO? Where is the justice in that?

[SickBeast]

My government pays for my healthcare as well Rollo. I guess we're all a bunch of slacker losers here in Canada. A bunch of low lives right? Actually I guess pretty much the entire civilized western world can be painted with that brush as well according to you.

You need to get a life. apoppin worked his entire life. Let him enjoy whatever perks he has now. It's not like he hasn't paid enough taxes during his working years.

[ocre]

Yeah,

this is the never ending circle.

Rollo is just complaining and whining, i guess that is something he likes to do. His anger and frustration is wrongly focused and he will never find resolution. At most, this is a very minor inconvenience financially for him but he just cant stand the idea. I find things i enjoy in life make all the bs completely insignificant. But then again, my goal in life is to enjoy it

[RolloTheGreat]

Yeah,

this is the never ending circle.  

Rollo is just complaining and whining, i guess that is something he likes to do.   His anger and frustration is wrongly focused and he will never find resolution.  At most, this is a very minor inconvenience financially for him but he just cant stand the idea.   I find things i enjoy in life make all the bs completely insignificant.  But then again, my goal in life is to enjoy it

Ever ship something to someone in Canada Ocre? To a man they'll ask you to cheat on the customs form to try and evade their god awful taxes.

http://www.finweb.com/taxes/5-difference...z3gN9zQQGU

The tax rates in Canada are usually higher than in the United States. In Canada, tax revenue makes up 38.4 percent of the GDP, while in the United States, the tax revenue makes up 28.2 percent. This is largely due to the differences in the way each government spends money.

One of the biggest differences is the way each government funds health care.

Still think "Aw shucks who cares if guys like Apoppin want to grift a little healthcare"?

This change represents a fundamental shift in our economy that will cost our kids more to live here, so they can subsidize prostitutes, dope dealers, and web reviewers. My thought is those guys should pay their own way, like we had to.

[RolloTheGreat]

Obama-Hood, Prince of Thieves, has prudently avoided the full backlash of Obamacare by pushing back the employer mandate until he's about to leave office.

http://www.nationaljournal.com/health-ca...n-20140210

How coincidental and convenient, eh? This "wonderful" new law that "will help everybody" will finally go fully into effect SIX YEARS after it was passed, when the carpet baggers who passed it are all packing up and leaving town.

Now Ocre, if in Canada 10% more of the GDP goes to healthcare, where do you think that 10% is going to come from? The bottom half of the economy who already skate on their federal taxes? Or households like mine in the top 10%? Hmmmmmm it's a puzzler!

I can tell you this: If I have to pay 10% more in taxes I could have bought a NICE recreational home with the money.

I can honestly say if the decision came down to another cabin on a lake, or guys like Apoppin having the right to choose not to work at traditional jobs, I'd rather have my tax dollars go to GPS activated explosive ankle bracelets for guys like Apoppin. We could drive them North to the border, arm the device, and say,"Now go live in Canada where they like guys who don't want to work. If you cross our border, you'll explode." and push them over.

Then SickBeast can pay their way if he thinks it's such a good way to run a country.

NOTE: Have NO problem with safety nets for the old, young, disabled, unemployed. Vote for EVERY education referendum. My ONLY problem is with socialized medicine because I do not think using the govt to mandate charity for able bodied citizens who choose not to work or pursue traditional jobs is right. 86% of us had healthcare when Obamacare passed and 7% were unemployed. So yeah I guess 7% of us who were largely young and healthy or young and shiftless didn't have it. As noted, Canada is very near for those great guys. We don't need them here. (the shiftless)

[SickBeast]

Rollo what you have always failed at understanding is that the way we do things in Canada is both cheaper and better. You just said that you're planning to drop $100,000 on your son's education. Here tuition is about $5000 at excellent schools, the best ones we have. In Quebec it's about $2500. Our universal healthcare costs much less overall compared to the way things are done in the US, plus we all have coverage.

I'm done arguing with you about this, you just don't get it and I don't think you ever will.

Let's please stick to computer hardware.

[SteelCrysis]

Rollo what you have always failed at understanding is that the way we do things in Canada is both cheaper and better.  You just said that you're planning to drop $100,000 on your son's education.  Here tuition is about $5000 at excellent schools, the best ones we have.  In Quebec it's about $2500.  Our universal healthcare costs much less overall compared to the way things are done in the US, plus we all have coverage.

I'm done arguing with you about this, you just don't get it and I don't think you ever will.

Let's please stick to computer hardware.

Are you sure you still want that health care? http://www.city-journal.org/html/17_3_ca...hcare.html

And now for something completely different. Let's get back to computer hardware.

[SickBeast]

Rollo what you have always failed at understanding is that the way we do things in Canada is both cheaper and better.  You just said that you're planning to drop $100,000 on your son's education.  Here tuition is about $5000 at excellent schools, the best ones we have.  In Quebec it's about $2500.  Our universal healthcare costs much less overall compared to the way things are done in the US, plus we all have coverage.

I'm done arguing with you about this, you just don't get it and I don't think you ever will.

Let's please stick to computer hardware.

Are you sure you still want that health care? http://www.city-journal.org/html/17_3_ca...hcare.html

And now for something completely different. Let's get back to computer hardware.

That's from 2007. Our health care system here is amazing.

[SteelCrysis]

That's from 2007. Our health care system here is amazing.

Something tells me it hasn't changed.

[RolloTheGreat]

That's from 2007. Our health care system here is amazing.

No, it's actually crap.

http://pnhp.org/blog/2014/03/17/42000-ca...re-really/

An enormous number jump the queue for care in their native land and travel to the United States to receive medical attention. In 2012, over 42,000 Canadians crossed the border to get treated.

http://dailycaller.com/2012/07/11/report...e-in-2011/

A Canadian study released Wednesday found that many provinces in our neighbor to the north have seen patients fleeing the country and opting for medical treatment in the United States.

The nonpartisan Fraser Institute reported that 46,159 Canadians sought medical treatment outside of Canada in 2011, as wait times increased 104 percent — more than double — compared with statistics from 1993.

Specialist physicians surveyed across 12 specialties and 10 provinces reported an average total wait time of 19 weeks between the time a general practitioner refers a patient and the time a specialist provides elective treatment — the longest they have ever recorded.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/health/medical-wa...-1.2663013

Medical wait times up to 3 times longer in Canada

Canadian health care:

[SickBeast]

You guys don't get it. You don't live here. You have no clue.

[BoFox]

At least in my case my widow will have worked her whole life, and been more successful than a lot of men.

Yes Apoppin does the gaming community (and hardware companies) a solid by slaving away on his benchmarks, but if either values it, they should be the ones to buy Apoppin's HMO. To most of the people paying for Apoppin's HMO, his benchmarks are probably even less meaningful than the guy who chooses to wash the park rocks with a toothbrush. The vast majority of people just don't care about benchmarks.

You can find pretty smoothed stones known as "agates" on the shore of Lake Superior, which can in turn be sold. If I quit my job today, start spending my days picking up shiny rocks and selling them, should society be forced to buy my HMO? Where is the justice in that?

And it's ok for your supposed "widow" to do nothing, and still get an extra $2000/mo from the government, while buying brand new Cadillacs every few years? 

Poppin is a shining example of the community $$ put to good use.  He didn't just smoke crack with the $$.  He actually ponied up for a Fury X and then went to work on it.  At his age, he should be living like a retired person, but he's still an industrious bee.  There was something about him taking care of his Mom for years instead of sending her off to hospice, saving the government $80K per year that way.  Why not ever mention this?  Most people would rather not be burdened with taking care of their aging parents, and just let them rot away in nursing homes, while costing so much of our tax dollars.  Only a few nurses get paid for the work, along with a few filthy rich owners and doctors getting the major chunk. 

Then it's the healthcare that is a much bigger problem with education. 

Obamacare actually forces the government to seriously reconsider re-educating the American people to live a healther lifestyle, eat more healthy - especially avoid eating junk and drinking 3 coffee cups, 3 cans of coke each day.  The companies have been bribing the government all this time, with little reason to really care for the American population (with just medicare that probably pressured the gov't to come down hard on tobacco in the 80's and 90's).  Cases of diabetes kept on rising exponentially since the 70's - especially with small children whereas before it was completely unheard of for a kid to get diabetes in the 50's..  Obesity was rather rare in the 70's, and now it's an American icon.  As long as the health care and pharmaceutical industry kept on raking in billions and billions more each year, the government was ok with that as long as the industry was in bed with the government. 

Now, Obamacare actually puts more pressure on the government to take responsibility for the American citizen, if America is actually a democracy at all.  Stop letting businesses (McDonalds, Nabisco, etc.) put themselves before the health of the population as a whole, no matter how much it hurts the medical industry (hospitals, etc.).  Sure, the doctors won't be getting paid as much, and the hospital revenue will go down, but isn't it cruel to put that before the health of the American citizen? 

We need to get to the root of the problem.  Stop separating business and the population too much.  Start taking responsibility for the core of the democracy, which is the American demographic no matter the income class, status, race, etc.  The lower median income class isn't just a number to be exploited for private businesses - like the billions of Chinese and Indian factory workers without concern for their health. 

Obamacare means that the government has to shift their attention back to the American demographic as a whole, away from solely financial standpoint of the upscale flow of the private economy.

[RolloTheGreat]

And it's ok for your supposed "widow" to do nothing, and still get an extra $2000/mo from the government, while buying brand new Cadillacs every few years? 

Yes. She will have put more into Social Security than most people over the course of her life, it's more than fair she gets to use it when she retires. If your position is that "Successful people who have saved for their retirement and paid more into SS should not be able to benefit from it because they need it less" we'll have to agree to disagree. This whole concept of "people should all be equal" is bullshit. I met my wife at work, where she was working full time and finishing her accounting degree nights and weekends, paying for it herself, no student loans. Since then she's worked full time every week for the last 20+ years. When I've asked her if she wants to cut back or just retire she says she plans on working until her full retirement age of 67 even if we don't need the money. If the country was made up of people like my wife, we would live in a paradise. If the country was made up of Apoppins, we would live in Ethiopia, everyone starving. There is a BIG difference in being a "giver" and a "taker" in the society you live in.

Poppin is a shining example of the community $$ put to good use.  He didn't just smoke crack with the $$. 

So what? Most people don't smoke crack and that doesn't mean they should be given money other people earned.

He actually ponied up for a Fury X and then went to work on it.  At his age, he should be living like a retired person, but he's still an industrious bee.

The money he spent on luxuries like a Fury X should have been deducted from his Obamacare.
If I quit my job this morning and say, "My job is now reviewing sports cars! I'm going to go buy a Corvette and spend the next month driving it and writing about it so people will know about Corvettes!" society should buy my healthcare? Yeah, right.

  There was something about him taking care of his Mom for years instead of sending her off to hospice, saving the government $80K per year that way.  Why not ever mention this? 

I've mentioned it many times, including in this thread. On this we agree, I don't have much problem with care givers for the disabled getting Medicaid.

Obamacare actually forces the government to seriously reconsider re-educating the American people to live a healther lifestyle, eat more healthy - especially avoid eating junk and drinking 3 coffee cups, 3 cans of coke each day.  The companies have been bribing the government all this time, with little reason to really care for the American population (with just medicare that probably pressured the gov't to come down hard on tobacco in the 80's and 90's).  Cases of diabetes kept on rising exponentially since the 70's - especially with small children whereas before it was completely unheard of for a kid to get diabetes in the 50's..  Obesity was rather rare in the 70's, and now it's an American icon.  As long as the health care and pharmaceutical industry kept on raking in billions and billions more each year, the government was ok with that as long as the industry was in bed with the government. 

You want the government telling you what you can eat/drink? LOL- enjoy your life on the government prescribed diet, doing the government prescribed amount of exercise daily, avoiding the risks the government says are unacceptable. Will be great when the police show up because you ordered a Danish for breakfast.

Now, Obamacare actually puts more pressure on the government to take responsibility for the American citizen, if America is actually a democracy at all.  Stop letting businesses (McDonalds, Nabisco, etc.) put themselves before the health of the population as a whole, no matter how much it hurts the medical industry (hospitals, etc.).  Sure, the doctors won't be getting paid as much, and the hospital revenue will go down, but isn't it cruel to put that before the health of the American citizen? 

There is no "freedom" or "personal liberty" in what you just said. This is in direct violation of the Constitution. I'd actually leave a dictatorship as you just described. So would most people who can afford to.

Know what happens to guys like Apoppin when people like me leave? Ethiopia.

http://www.cnbc.com/2013/12/11/


http://www.cnbc.com/2013/12/11/

We need to get to the root of the problem.  Stop separating business and the population too much. 

Know why we're not Ethiopia? Corps earn the country wealth.

[RolloTheGreat]

We need to get back to the government governing in the name of the people, the citizenship who actually voted them into power, not governing for corporations and business entities who are not human, not citizens and don't vote!

You should do that in Australia, and not worry about what we do here.

Most of us are pretty happy with how it's done here.

[SickBeast]

We need to get back to the government governing in the name of the people, the citizenship who actually voted them into power, not governing for corporations and business entities who are not human, not citizens and don't vote!

You should do that in Australia, and not worry about what we do here.

Most of us are pretty happy with how it's done here.

Most Americans I have talked to really envy our health care system here in Canada. You guys wasted all your money on the Vietnam War while we built a proper health care system. You guys killed people while we saved the lives of our most vulnerable. And you say you love your government and the way things are done. You just don't get it and I don't think you ever will.

[SteelCrysis]

A proper health care system that has massive delays. Of course, the NHS over in the UK is even worse for service.

[SickBeast]

A proper health care system that has massive delays. Of course, the NHS over in the UK is even worse for service.

There are only delays on non urgent procedures. If you need care fast you are always taken care of and it's top notch.

[SteelCrysis]

What happened to the topic? All I'm seeing is some of the BBCode and "Click to edit" on some of the posts.

[BoFox]

You want the government telling you what you can eat/drink? LOL- enjoy your life on the government prescribed diet, doing the government prescribed amount of exercise daily, avoiding the risks the government says are unacceptable. Will be great when the police show up because you ordered a Danish for breakfast.

Now, Obamacare actually puts more pressure on the government to take responsibility for the American citizen, if America is actually a democracy at all.  Stop letting businesses (McDonalds, Nabisco, etc.) put themselves before the health of the population as a whole, no matter how much it hurts the medical industry (hospitals, etc.).  Sure, the doctors won't be getting paid as much, and the hospital revenue will go down, but isn't it cruel to put that before the health of the American citizen? 

There is no "freedom" or "personal liberty" in what you just said. This is in direct violation of the Constitution. I'd actually leave a dictatorship as you just described. So would most people who can afford to.

Hey, that's not what I meant - it's the education that we need so badly.  The government knows what is healthy for us, but isn't even bothering to make sure that we understand the risks of eating crap all day long everyday.  The education system is in terrible shape compared to many other countries - public schools are barely teaching kids geometry by the time they are 17 years old, and basically nothing else.  The average high school senior can barely write a proper 3-paragraph essay, let alone a 5-paragraph essay.  Perhaps it's because they're drinking too much coke and eating too much sugar at public school lunches (provided by the public school system), and their brains are in lethargic/demented state as a result.  Several studies have been done on public schools that were willing to experiment with healthy food regiments, but the government isn't really doing anything about it nationwide, let alone statewide in any of the states.  Despondency is a common thing that is blamed on their uneducated parents as they didn't know better....  yeah, just let them all flip burgers for us in the future.. 

The trillion-dollar health care industry would be cut in half if we Americans were as healthy and physically fit as we were in the 1950's.  Even private health insurance would be far cheaper as a result.  It does not benefit only the poor but the rich as well.  The poor would be far more efficient workers as a result.  Their IQ would raise considerably, and do better in college subjects, while having more positive energy to take charge of their own lives, and to contribute more to the society.  There would be less of us needing medicaid/SSI due to better health.  Sure, the doctors, insurance companies, pharmacists, etc. get paid less as a result, as health keeps the doctors away.  It's just hard to look at the big picture when the trillion-dollar industry is in bed with the government.  A $100 dollar bill up close just looks bigger than that unlimited well of $$$ buried past the hill a few miles away.

[RolloTheGreat]

Do you honestly think people don't know what is healthy food and exercise and what is not?

They told us all during our free public education, and it's not like the info is hard to come by.

I've been eating a quasi paleo diet for the last 6 months, have lost 28lbs.. ( I lose about a pound a week by not eating fast food for lunch anymore, and snacking on fruits/nuts/beef jerky)

But I wasn't eating KFC/pizza/burgers for lunch because the govt hadn't told me they were bad for me. I was eating them because they were fast, and tastier than the plate of raw vegetables and ham or turkey sandwiches I eat now.

[BoFox]

As long as the public school system serve crap to the kids, like over-sweet chocolate milk, burgers and fries, or a slice of pepperoni pizza, and then places vending machines in the most populated parts of the school halls. Most kids do not know better, and need much more guidance than that.

[dmcowen674]

What happened to the topic?  All I'm seeing is some of the BBCode and "Click to edit" on some of the posts.

I was editing smilies earlier today, you may have been on while I was doing that. Is it still messed up for you?

:confused-2:

[BoFox]

As long as the public school system serve crap to the kids, like over-sweet chocolate milk, burgers and fries, or a slice of pepperoni pizza, and then places vending machines in the most populated parts of the school halls.  Most kids do not know better, and need much more guidance than that. 

This is from my real experience: when I was in high school, there were vending machines right outside the cafeteria.  In the mornings when I didn't eat enough for breakfast, I usually got a bar of Twix or Kitkat or Snickers, but then felt awful as the sugar wore out 2 hours later.  Black kids loved eating bags of cheetos or other stuff loaded with hydrogenated oils and artificial cheese flavors, etc - instead of eating anything from the cafeteria. 

And I'm hearing about schools continuing to sell junk like this even to elementary grade kids.  My sons talked about buying ice cream pops, but they never bought coke or anything like that.  My kids usually know better, but sometimes they would drink several cups of soda in a row if I let them.  Most other kids really do NOT know better, trust me, man.  They're kids, after all, for heck's sake.

[SteelCrysis]

I was editing smilies earlier today, you may have been on while I was doing that. Is it still messed up for you?

:confused-2:

It's good now.