Flint Michigan residents charged $150 a month for poisoned water

[RolloTheGreat]

You seriously want to use Germany's post WW1 debt problem and Hitlers "solution" to it as a valid example of how, rational, legitimate and compassionate goverments set monetary policy (or anything else)?!

......... you should seriously attend the school board meetings in your area. They clearly don't teach much in the way of history.

The Weimar Republic were the people using the economic policy you are championing. They were doing it for precisely the reasons you state.

You are a fucking pathetic troll, worse than Rollo

You were voicing your support for what has *PROVEN* to be the poorest economic policy in the history of the world. I helped a student work on a masters thesis for this subject not too long ago. You want to play boy? You are out of your fucking league.

Damn you smart man! Damn you!

Have to say I agree, issuing currency is not the answer to anything. (unless de-valuation of the money is your goal)

It's something to be feared and avoided, not regarded as a quick fix.

[RolloTheGreat]

but the vast majority of our immigrants are illegal.

In which case they are not immigrants at all, but illegal aliens for reporting purposes as you well know but try to weasel your way past in an effort to mislead and distort the debate here!

Semantics. They're called "illegal immigrants" here more often than aliens. Also, by definition, they are immigrants.

I will say between the 4:1 ratio on immigration caps and the ratio of legal to illegal immigrants in the USA, not to mention the proximity of the source of most of our illegals, my argument is untenable.

So without further research, I can't prove my point and concede it.

[BenSkywalker]

The USA is printing money right now to get itself out of debt!

No, it isn't. The treasury sells securities to finance the debt. There isn't a person of reasonable intelligence in a major industrial nation who would use increased currency to handle debt. You can help finance it yourself-

https://www.treasurydirect.gov/indiv/pro...oducts.htm

As I said earlier, so long as the money is being created in order to support workers (who add value to an economy by performing their work) and to keep goods and services flowing throughout a community it isn't irresponsible.

Intent *NEVER* validates fiscal policy. Ever. Hyperinflation is the result of what you are talking about- and it hurts the working class the most- by miles. Do some research- this isn't a right versus left thing or even libertarian versus authoritarian- it's math. From nigh anarchist to Stalin style communist- it is *TERRIBLE* policy- every time.

It is irresponsible when it is done for speculative purposes (propping up the stock market)

Major stock market crashes result in massive recessions that hurt the poor the most. I hate corporations more then you do, but that doesn't make me blind to why it is necessary to prop them up sometimes(2008 could have ended up a lot worse). They do employ a staggering number of people. In NO WAY does that make printing currency valid as a way to do it, just saying sometimes, unfortunately, it is needed to help even the poor.

or when madmen try to use it as a way to get out from under a debt imposed as a result of losing a world war and having sanctions imposed.

Trying not to get snide here, you are making it hard though. Hitler *NEVER* used the fiscal policy we are discussing. He was able to gain power because of the economic policy you are championing- it destroyed the working class, crushed the poor. The only people who came out ahead were the wealthy as they held large amounts of physical goods and lands. The policy you are supporting makes the rich *MUCH* richer and poor *MUCH* poorer. When we look at the wealthiest people in the world *NOBODY* checks their bank accounts, they look at their assets. When hyperinflation sets in their $5 million apartment building quickly turns into a $500 million building, the poor living inside go from paying $900 a month to $90,000 a month in rent with not a fucking thing to show for it.

Coming back to the original topic, creating money in order to ensure essential services like water are able to function is a responsible use case.

No, it isn't- not even remotely close. Shutting the lights off in every government building, levying additional taxes, taking loans out- there are lots of responsible ways to approach it. Printing more money isn't one of them. It is *ALWAYS* going to hurt the poor the most(it hurts everyone, but much less so for the wealthy).

[BenSkywalker]

Your mob call it quantitative easing, which is a polite way of saying 'printing money'.

If you want to have a discussion about quantitative easing that is something else entirely(and no, I'm not a supporter). QE accounts for a total of about ~$3Trillion in the last decade- less then the interest on the national debt(and is being used to try to increase credit lines which will help drive the economy). We will pay the piper for that at some point, it is reckless policy. In order to actually *pay* the national debt we would need orders of magnitude more then what we are talking about with QE- which would end up destroying the country fairly quickly(not an exaggeration).  QE is much like allowing over leverage was in the 90s, a stop gap political ploy to temporarily inflate the economy to make people feel better about things.

Hitler was enabled by the idiocy of those who preceded him.

Absolutely, and the biggest act of idiocy they did was causing hyperinflation.

However, there is more to life than economic performance.

Of course, that is why I will *never* be rich. It really wouldn't be very difficult for me, but I am not willing to make the sacrifices they do to get there.

[SickBeast]

If the government wants to stimulate the economy they need to do exactly what we are currently doing in Canada IMO. Spend money on infrastructure and give the middle class a tax break. Most people in the middle class will use the money to buy stuff and at least the infrastructure is something we can all use. We will see how it all plays out in Canada. Right now our economy is really fragile but I'm excited to see what our new government can do about it.

[BenSkywalker]

Spend money on infrastructure and give the middle class a tax break.

Seriously not trying to be a dick here, but you are encouraging production and reduced government allocation of resources- that is a right wing philosophy while using a government agency to manipulate the markets would be the left wing solution.

In other words, you picked Republican

Mind you, I agree with you on this point in no uncertain terms. One of the many reasons I *detest* the political parties in the US, both of them get so locked in to their litmus tests they can't just focus on making solid logical choices for the betterment of the people.

[SickBeast]

Spend money on infrastructure and give the middle class a tax break.

Seriously not trying to be a dick here, but you are encouraging production and reduced government allocation of resources- that is a right wing philosophy while using a government agency to manipulate the markets would be the left wing solution.

In other words, you picked Republican

Mind you, I agree with you on this point in no uncertain terms. One of the many reasons I *detest* the political parties in the US, both of them get so locked in to their litmus tests they can't just focus on making solid logical choices for the betterment of the people.

Every time I vote I try to choose the best option for my country.  Believe it or not, back in the day I  voted the Conservatives in here because I wanted to give them a chance to see what they could do.  Actually to begin with they did a pretty good job which is probably why they got re-elected.  The Liberals here ran an excellent campaign in the last election.  They came out of nowhere and won.  They stuck to a very positive message and they had a clear plan for how to fix our economy.  I really think we are going to see more of a focus on the middle class which is great.  The lower class already gets a lot of perks.  They don't pay much tax (if any) and they get a lot of services for free, at least here in Canada.  Our government created a new top tax bracket that affects people making over $200,000 per year.  So I would not say that this was a Republican policy.  I can only imagine what would happen if the Republicans taxed the wealthy in order to give the middle class a tax break.  If you look at Trump he wants to tax the "speculators", not the rich.

[SteelCrysis]

Capitalism to the capital "C", you mean? *sighs*... I don't think any of us are for Communism to the capital 'C', either, but Capitalism is currently screwing over 50% of Americans in the ass as global capitalization takes it course after America had its initial early success thanks to slavery, prime estate, technological prowess during the world wars, and giving leeway to the corporations with extravagant tax incentives until the corporations still did not think it was worth it to keep the Americans employed.

Ironic that you mention slavery and communism, because at least one defender of slavery said slavery was communism: https://archive.org/details/sociologyforsout00fitz

Bachelors degrees will soon be regarded as something like a high school diploma. Masters will be regarded as bachelors. Even Ph.D.'s will have a hard time getting a job as a secretary, when there are just too many desperate Ph.D.'s. Imagine putting a million Ph.D.'s in Africa? Would all of them immediately qualify for a job?

Ph.Ds have a hard time getting jobs that they are qualified for now, due to either too many graduates or not enough jobs, depending on which way you look at it.

[dmcowen674]

Ph.Ds have a hard time getting jobs that they are qualified for now, due to either too many graduates or not enough jobs, depending on which way you look at it.

and they are $100,000 to $200,000 in student loan debt.

[SteelCrysis]

Wow, Ben committed one helluva clusterfuck.

That wildly inaccurate lie ended up being the main catalyst for the creation and rise of a political party in the 20th century, the National Socialist German Workers Party.

Bullshit. The Weimar German economy broke out of hyperinflation thanks to Hjalmar Schacht's economic genius. What actually happened was Great Depression + bunch of idiots appointing Hitler and thinking they could control him.

That was the intent of Weimar policy. Excessive debt and creation of new currency have proven to be the most destructive economic policy the world has ever seen. It wasn't done to bolster the wealthy, it was an attempt to save the working class and the government itself. If you want to call the results of that sound economic policy......

No, it was paying off severe debt from the Treaty of Versailles, although at least one French guy made the claim that they faked it all to try to get out of paying reparations and Germany was perfectly capable of paying.

You seriously want to use Germany's post WW1 debt problem and Hitlers "solution" to it as a valid example of how, rational, legitimate and compassionate goverments set monetary policy (or anything else)?!

You are a fucking pathetic troll, worse than Rollo, dragging Hitler and his "government" and early 20th century genrmany into this conversation!  That is NOT how 99.999% percent of the world operated nor is it how 99.999% of the world operates now!

You were voicing your support for what has *PROVEN* to be the poorest economic policy in the history of the world. I helped a student work on a masters thesis for this subject not too long ago. You want to play boy? You are out of your fucking league.

Explain how Germany recovered from hyperinflation and went on to have some economic prosperity before the Great Depression hit them.

What I described above is the way every last major economy in the world has worked for at least the last century!

Germany's war era fuckups are not a valid example of how FIAT currency works!

Seriously, what the hell is up with you and your German obsession?!  You drag it into everything and are worse the SteelCrysis with it!

Absolutely, and the biggest act of idiocy they did was causing hyperinflation.

Wrong. It was appointing Hitler to be Chancellor and thinking he was controllable.

[SickBeast]

I don't believe you're a teacher with a masters degree, unless it's from 3rd rate college.

Actually our 3rd rate colleges are all in the United States.  People who can't get into teacher's college here all wind up in the USA for their certification and it costs between $22,000USD and $30,000USD per year for the privilege, plus living costs (that's just tuition).  Then when they come back they are not on the same footing as people who are educated here.  The same goes for other professions here.  If you can't get into school here, the doors are wide open in the US if you have enough money.  What that really tells me is that in Canada only our best and brightest make it through our system.  In the States money talks.  Perhaps that's how you got your two degrees as well.

Our schools might not be top ranked here but they are consistently very good.

[SickBeast]

Just to further illustrate what I am saying, check this out:

For those looking to study at an elite university in one of the world’s most developed nations, applying to study in Canada can be an attractive option. A total of 26 universities in Canada feature in the QS World University Rankings 2015/16, of which three are in the world’s top 50, with 10 more making the world’s top 300 – a feat matched only by a handful of other nations.

http://www.topuniversities.com/where-to-...nada/guide

13 schools in the top 300 and we have a smaller population than the state of California.  I would be curious to see the population of the other countries in the "handful" that can match our education system's quality.

So no, we don't have the absolute best, but tuition here is generally $2500-5000/year and the schools are consistenly excellent.  Harvard may be good but they charge $50,000USD/year for the privilege.

Also, Rollo, about my own education, in my undergraduate program people got kicked out if they maintained less than a B- average. So I did pretty good. We had 150 people start the program and only about 20 of us came out in the top stream like I did. We had a 50% dropout rate per year. And that was one of the absolute top undergraduate programs Canada wide. When I graduated I was in high demand and among the most skilled people at what I was doing in my area. Over 1,000 people apply to that program every year and only 150 get in. I had to pass a rigorous entrance test and they evaluated not only my marks but my portfolio as well.

[RolloTheGreat]

Wow 13 schools in the Top 300.

You showed me- the USA only had 15 of the top 30.  

A huge number of international students want to study in the US, and with good reason. Not only do US universities dominate the world rankings, the country also offers a huge range of exciting and iconic study locations

"Bearpaw University is a tough school, eh? Claude and Pierre were expelled for academic reasons when they mixed beer and wine and drove their snowmobiles into a tree in Ice Fishing 101, and Michel might be goin' home after trappin' that housecat and skinning it in Fur Trapping 563. The hoser thought it was a wolverine!!"

"Take off! No way a housecat looks like a wolverine! Musta had one too many Labatt's, no place for dat in higher education!"

"Yah right, eh?"

[RolloTheGreat]

Wait I forgot.

Less people live there, so if they doing anything remotely close to world class it's a miracle second only to creation of the the Earth.

[SickBeast]

A pretty fair comparison would probably be California versus Canada. Keep in mind the difference in tuition cost though.

[RolloTheGreat]

A pretty fair comparison would probably be California versus Canada. Keep in mind the difference in tuition cost though.

It doesn't seem to have sunk in with you that it doesn't really matter at all how many people live there, how cold it is, and whether or not "Wynona's Big Brown Beaver" is the national anthem because you guys think it's about your national animal and source of wealth.




No, it really only matters about the quality of the schools and you guys are largely absent from the top 100.

Who cares what it costs if the schools aren't as good?

LOL that's like Boone's Farm makes a damn good wine for the price.

Sure, it's king among cheap wines, but who wants to drink it that isn't living under a bridge?

[SickBeast]

I guess Rollo expects the Cayman Islands to have the world's best universities. They have 52,000 people. That should be enough, right?

[RolloTheGreat]

Are you familiar with the US high school sports division system Sick Beast?

The towns with 3,000 people don't play the towns with 300,000.

The people from the towns of 3,000 also don't go online bragging about how their teams are better "if you consider the size of the town".

You do.

[RolloTheGreat]

It is useless arguing with Ben.  Let him think he is right.  He and Rollo are the suppositories (no, I didn't choose the wrong word...) of all knowledge in the USA!

Would be more accurate to say:
It's pretty tough to argue with Ben, because he's usually right or close to it.

[RolloTheGreat]

It is useless arguing with Ben.  Let him think he is right.  He and Rollo are the suppositories (no, I didn't choose the wrong word...) of all knowledge in the USA!

Would be more accurate to say:
It's pretty tough to argue with Ben, because he's usually right or close to it.

Except for when he is dead wrong.  (like you and your Kokatu articles in the console thread, the crickets are still chirping.  Cat run off with your tongue?)

More like "boredom".

Rollo: "ey GStan, look at all these articles that say XBone BC is well done and works well, or these that say it's hard to tell the difference in gaming on PS4s and XBones".

GStan: "More games at 1080p!!" 8,197,348X.

Over. And over. And over.

[RolloTheGreat]

The general masses agree with me, not you when it comes to PS4 vs XBONE!

Why would you link to Kokatu instead of eurogamer when discussing BC performance or IQ differences between PS4 and XBONE?!

Eurogamer backs their claims up with hard evidence.  Kokatu just vomits up M$ PR lines!

Answer in the console thread, please!

The problem with not having much formal education is you don't even realize when you're using logical fallacies for arguments.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argumentum_ad_populum

In argumentation theory, an argumentum ad populum (Latin for "appeal to the people") is a fallacious argument that concludes that a proposition is true because many or most people believe it: "If many believe so, it is so."

Not to mention the fact the PS4 sells more doesn't even mean it's a better console.

Athlon 64s were better processors and only sold about 25%, and Sony Betamaxes were better VCRs and went out of business.

Or that what is better for most people might not be better for all.

But that doesn't matter to you.

You're not very educated, and don't seem very smart, so you go on...and on...and on...and on....and on...and on....and on trying to prove something that has no right or wrong answer.

[RolloTheGreat]

Bullshit!  The PS4 is the better console and people know it!  They aren't half as dumb as what you and M$ would love to think they are!

Yes, the PS4 is the better console for some things. The XBone is better for others.

I've always accepted and known that, but you're a tunnel visioned knucklehead, sort of a stubborn caveman.

[BenSkywalker]

The Weimar German economy broke out of hyperinflation thanks to Hjalmar Schacht's economic genius.

At least we have someone here from a civilized nation that has *some* education on the matter. Schacht was appointed economic minister *by Hitler*. It appears you have at least a reasonable education on the sociological end of that era, on the economic portion I would point out the Dawes Plan combined with gold standard as the main forces that solidified the currency. For the record, Shacht was actually against a lot of the economic policy that was utilized to heighten overall prosperity for the poor during the Weimar 'golden years'- it was more a Keysian economic approach combined with the Dawes Plan that solidified the economy.

No, it was paying off severe debt from the Treaty of Versailles, although at least one French guy made the claim that they faked it all to try to get out of paying reparations and Germany was perfectly capable of paying.

The manner in which they were paying it off is what destroyed the currency which is the very specific point we were talking about. How the debt is acquired is meaningless, intent means nothing when discussing economic policy. For a current, German, example of this, look into their political views on quantitative easing.

Explain how Germany recovered from hyperinflation and went on to have some economic prosperity before the Great Depression hit them.

It was a multi faceted approach, but it needs to be looked at from an honest perspective. The middle class never truly recovered until Hitler was given ultimate power. In order to stabilize the German economy the US structured an economic plan, the Dawes Plan, that allowed the payments of reparation to be manageable by the German government. They created a new currency- *BACKED BY GOLD*- which made hyperinflation impossible without a complete collapse of logic by the head of the bank(that was Schacht at that point in time- not arguing his intellect at all for the record). Large public works projects were started to improve the infrastructure of Germany along with a heavily pushed increase in industrial production capabilities. This policy helped out the poorest people considerably, in fact it got to the point where a great deal of the blue collar workers surpassed the income level of their white collar countrymen who were in dire economic straits as a result of the fallout from hyperinflation. These disenfranchised people are who formed the core of the Nazi party. What ended up happening when viewed at in totality is that the middle class contracted very quickly, a contraction that didn't really end until the third Reich. 

Wrong. It was appointing Hitler to be Chancellor and thinking he was controllable.

A 'Hitler' doesn't take over a properly functioning country. If Germany was operating close to reasonable in the view of the populace, Hitler never would have been appointed.  Hyperinflation destroyed everyone but the wealthiest in Germany, their economic recovery only included the poorest people, nigh killing the middle class, all of the actions taken after the Dawes plan took care of the poorest people- but left the middle class decimated. Once the Great Depression hit- the lack of a middle class made Germany particularly susceptible as their own populace had relatively little buying power and hence, the broader global economic conditions destroyed the working poor progress that had been made. During that period of time, the Nazi party had made themselves very popular with the disenfranchised in the country and had already made significant progress on the mainstream political front, the collapse of the economic situations that allowed the poor to have a livable wage resulted in a consolidation of consensus among enough of the population to put Hitler in power.

[SickBeast]

Oh man...I have seen Rollo call other people Nazis but I have never seen anyone else call him one until now!

[BenSkywalker]

It isn't like the middle class could not have swallowed the pride that got Germany into dire straits in the first place and gone to work industrial jobs like the poor.....

You, me, Rollo, Sick, Steel or Dave- we all live in countries where that is perfectly acceptable, Germany is different. Still today, apprenticeships are quite normal with your basic core education ending years earlier and you moving on to start working on a very specialized set of skills that you will use for your adult life. It isn't as rigid as say the caste system of India, but this was also flirting with a century ago. The German economy has never been good at being fluid(which all of the nations we inhabit on this board are actually quite good at). There is a very real chance that they wouldn't have been considered worth hiring for blue collar jobs. I employ a lot of blue collar workers, in all honesty if someone applies to work for me from a white collar background unless they served in the military I will rarely hire them. So many different factors at play, but pretty much white collar workers aren't as 'tough' as those who have always been blue collar(not just on a physical basis, dealing with the manner of language used, interactions with other people, working side by side with violent felons etc). 

Sick- missed your post last time- Actually the Republicans in the US have always taxed the rich more then the poor, they tax corporations even more then that. You probably get a very slanted view by watching the media at large, there is actually *VERY* little difference between the two political parties on overall economic policy. They scream at each other 'extremist' over fractions of a percent one way or the other.

[BenSkywalker]

Things like Nazi Germany are what happen when stiff-necked rich bastards dig their heels in and refuse to change with circumstances. Rollo would make a great Nazi.

I have continually been careful to use the term rich when having this discussion. They were referred to differently by the Nazis. The Nazis used the word 'Jew'.

Common logical fallacy to attempt to see your opponent as evil. In this particular instance, you are championing Nazi idealism(class warfare) while denouncing its' detractor(Rollo).

[BenSkywalker]

Those who felt themselves to privileged to do their part in the recovery should have been forcibly expelled from the country (a lot of them already deserved that anyway for their ambitions that caused the wars).

Being absolutely serious right now, that was *EXACTLY* Hitler's plan. The holocaust happened because he couldn't move them all to Madagascar(by all means, look it up).

If there is/was a caste-like system in place then it should have been the first thing thrown out the window when attempting to mend the country.

It is still working for them. It was destroyed by hyperinflation and didn't recover until some years after WW2. Now, I'm not saying I support it, but I will point out that people frequently seek out German wares because of the byproducts this style of society has given them. I don't think it is an inherently poor system, but it does leave you vulnerable to certain factors(as does our more fluid approach).  

[SteelCrysis]

[color=#333333]At least we have someone here from a civilized nation that has *some* education on the matter. Schacht was appointed economic minister *by Hitler*. It appears you have at least a reasonable education on the sociological end of that era, on the economic portion I would point out the Dawes Plan combined with gold standard as the main forces that solidified the currency. For the record, Shacht was actually against a lot of the economic policy that was utilized to heighten overall prosperity for the poor during the Weimar 'golden years'- it was more a Keysian economic approach combined with the Dawes Plan that solidified the economy.

He was appointed economic minister by Hitler for a good reason, part of it being his track record in eliminating the 1923 hyperinflation. Of course, he was just a tool to Hitler, and Hitler fired him in the late 1930s for protesting the war economy as unsustainable.

A 'Hitler' doesn't take over a properly functioning country. If Germany was operating close to reasonable in the view of the populace, Hitler never would have been appointed.  Hyperinflation destroyed everyone but the wealthiest in Germany, their economic recovery only included the poorest people, nigh killing the middle class, all of the actions taken after the Dawes plan took care of the poorest people- but left the middle class decimated. Once the Great Depression hit- the lack of a middle class made Germany particularly susceptible as their own populace had relatively little buying power and hence, the broader global economic conditions destroyed the working poor progress that had been made. During that period of time, the Nazi party had made themselves very popular with the disenfranchised in the country and had already made significant progress on the mainstream political front, the collapse of the economic situations that allowed the poor to have a livable wage resulted in a consolidation of consensus among enough of the population to put Hitler in power.

Hyperinflation was starting to go down by the Beer Hall Putsch. The real issue was the Great Depression. If the middle class was already devastated, why didn't the Nazis become hugely successful before the Great Depression?

[SteelCrysis]

Being absolutely serious right now, that was *EXACTLY* Hitler's plan. The holocaust happened because he couldn't move them all to Madagascar(by all means, look it up).

Epic fail. The real reason was that he couldn't ship them to Siberia to freeze to death, since the Soviet Union refused to keel over. Even before that became an issue, the Einsatzgruppen were out mass shooting the Russian Jews.

[BenSkywalker]

He was appointed economic minister by Hitler for a good reason, part of it being his track record in eliminating the 1923 hyperinflation. Of course, he was just a tool to Hitler, and Hitler fired him in the late 1930s for protesting the war economy as unsustainable.

No argument there. He was actually opposed to several of the policies that led to economic prosperity for the poor, in general he was not a fan of Keynesian economic policy.

If the middle class was already devastated, why didn't the Nazis become hugely successful before the Great Depression?

If you recall Hitler had gotten out of jail and was more interested in re-asserting his dominance over the party then winning elections in 1928. Also, the middle class wasn't nearly as large as the working poor in Germany- without the support of the poorest people he never would have achieved dominance.

Epic fail. The real reason was that he couldn't ship them to Siberia to freeze to death, since the Soviet Union refused to keel over. Even before that became an issue, the Einsatzgruppen were out mass shooting the Russian Jews.

Generalplan Ost was the plan to relocate Slavic people after they had been conquered- they were the ones being sent to Siberia. Paul de Lagarde was the one pushing for shipping the German national Jews to Madagascar

[RolloTheGreat]

Oh man...I have seen Rollo call other people Nazis but I have never seen anyone else call him one until now!

Consider the source.

Weren't any guys like GStan in your Masters degree program, but there were probably plenty of guys like me. (by definition, no bachelors means you can't even try for a masters)

He's an angry, uneducated man who uses the internet to work out his frustrations.

[RolloTheGreat]

You're like some 50s greaser kid, but much older.

[RolloTheGreat]

I just turned 48 actually, you are in your early 50's aren't you (don't lie, I can link you to a post where you stated exactly that...)?

Errrr...that was the point I was trying to make GStan?

You're 48 years old, and you never grew up past "I'm right, you're wrong, nothing can be said to make me believe otherwise". You're just like "The Fonz"- you don't believe it's possible for you to be wrong.

How old I am is irrelevant. I'm HAPPY to admit I'm wrong, like the other day with the Canadian immigration. I hadn't considered key factors in the equation.

You not only ignore key factors (like for people that have more money than you how cheap a car is takes a back seat to things like utility and luxury, or that what some people look for in a gaming console not match what you look for) you go one step further and insult the people for caring about different factors.

Like an old, self centered greaser. At least I admit other choices have their good points and usually even buy the other choices. Like when I picked up the PS4 as well as the Xbone, and when I picked up the 2016 Camry for a third car because it made some sense for the niche it has to fill in our lives.

[SteelCrysis]

If you recall Hitler had gotten out of jail and was more interested in re-asserting his dominance over the party then winning elections in 1928. Also, the middle class wasn't nearly as large as the working poor in Germany- without the support of the poorest people he never would have achieved dominance.

There was also that failure with the Beer Hall Putsch. Which people conveniently changed their minds about when the Great Depression arrived.

Generalplan Ost was the plan to relocate Slavic people after they had been conquered- they were the ones being sent to Siberia. [color=#333333]Paul de Lagarde was the one pushing for shipping the German national Jews to Madagascar

Madagascar was a pipe dream thanks to the Royal Navy.

[RolloTheGreat]

My age has nothing to do with anything.  You are the one with the inflexible attitude, you are the one constantly hyping up XBONE over PS4 in spite of consumers mostly rejecting it in favor of PS4.  The only reason to get an XBONE is if you want to play one of the exclusives available only on it.  You are the one who came here calling my Yaris a "cracker box".  You preach that you are planning for a secure retirement yet you spend money like it is water.  You don't save money by spending it unnecessarily.

We can go through issue by issue if you like and I can show that every single time you were the one who started the fight and the insults.

That's the thing GStan- my attitude is the OPPOSITE of inflexible. I see the pros/cons of everything.

[SickBeast]

Rollo when did you admit you were wrong about Canadian immigration? I don't remember that.

[RolloTheGreat]

Rollo when did you admit you were wrong about Canadian immigration? I don't remember that.

Look in the thread, it's there.

[RolloTheGreat]

My age has nothing to do with anything.  You are the one with the inflexible attitude, you are the one constantly hyping up XBONE over PS4 in spite of consumers mostly rejecting it in favor of PS4.  The only reason to get an XBONE is if you want to play one of the exclusives available only on it.  You are the one who came here calling my Yaris a "cracker box".  You preach that you are planning for a secure retirement yet you spend money like it is water.  You don't save money by spending it unnecessarily.

We can go through issue by issue if you like and I can show that every single time you were the one who started the fight and the insults.

You exaggerate the failure of the XBone. The latest EA sales figures suggest a 35% marketshare worldwide, and MS says sales figures are still above the 360s at this point. So while it's not as successful as PS4, it's not exactly the unknown device you make it out to be.

The rest of it just shows you can't see things at all from other people's perspective.

It's actually possible to get some new vehicles and provide for your retirement if either you or your wife can pay the bills. We would probably seem "rich" to you, but we're "poor" compared to a lot of people we know. It's all relative and the only thing that really matters is how much you're enjoying life with family and friends.

[RolloTheGreat]

You don't seem to understand why I care way more about the media and BC personally? I don't even have a slot in my entertainment stand for a console. Have 3, filled by receiver, cable box DVR, and center channel speaker. I currently have a HD DVD player sitting next to it all on a wicker basket to play media. If I bought a gaming console it would be XBone because I don't care if PS4 runs a few more games at 1080p, I care more about one device for all media needs.


You've called me a racist many times for preferring large American vehicles, but when I needed a small vehicle I bought Japanese. Not to mention, my last two boat motors that cost over $10K were Japanese.

You've stated I don't save for retirement multiple times, but I'm going to be OK whatever happens with Social Security.

You've told me numerous times a Yaris is the ultimate vehicle, but it's totally unsuited for me and would end my way of life.

You've called me a drunk and in a couple days it will be a year since I had a drink. For years before that I didn't even drink every month.

Don't give up your day job and go into psychiatry, you don't "read" me at all.

Anyone who really knows me knows I live for my family and having a good time with family and friends. That I'm fairly well off and work to provide for lifestyle and retirement.

You think I'm a reckless drunk on the fast track to ruin. LOL

[BoFox]

Capitalism to the capital "C", you mean?  *sighs*...  I don't think any of us are for Communism to the capital 'C', either, but Capitalism is currently screwing over 50% of Americans in the ass as global capitalization takes it course after America had its initial early success thanks to slavery, prime estate, technological prowess during the world wars, and giving leeway to the corporations with extravagant tax incentives until the corporations still did not think it was worth it to keep the Americans employed.

Ironic that you mention slavery and communism, because at least one defender of slavery said slavery was communism: https://archive.org/details/sociologyforsout00fitz  

Bachelors degrees will soon be regarded as something like a high school diploma.  Masters will be regarded as bachelors.  Even Ph.D.'s will have a hard time getting a job as a secretary, when there are just too many desperate Ph.D.'s.  Imagine putting a million Ph.D.'s in Africa?  Would all of them immediately qualify for a job?

Ph.Ds have a hard time getting jobs that they are qualified for now, due to either too many graduates or not enough jobs, depending on which way you look at it.

LOL, slavery and communism?  Well...   like the Egyptian Pharaohs and Jew slaves...

It's not just a linear scale of opposite extremes.  The line between unfettered capitalism (i.e., one company takes over all and becomes an absolute monopoly) and totalitarian communism is almost non-existent.  Instead of a linear scale, let's look at it as a circle.  We need to be more balanced on Earth, rather than going to the extreme North (where Northeast is extreme communist and Northwest is extreme capitalist), where Satan Claus rules us all, whipping us from his proverbial sled.

Quality of life might be improving in China, but it's at the cost of pollution, tainted groundwater, massive agricultural land depleted of nutrients and damaged with salts, lack of personal freedom and eradication of family-hood and tradition.  All thanks to the "North" where extreme capitalism and extreme communism are in bed with each other - global capitalization finding its haven right there. 

We seriously need to "un-fuck" We-the-People.