10-31-2017, 01:06 PM
(This post was last modified: 10-31-2017, 01:12 PM by BenSkywalker.)
My apologies, slammed with work lately, been doing a lot of traveling.
Legit thanks for your reply SB, an honest discussion is far more productive, even if we don't agree on a single thing in the end, if we can better understand each other's points, it eliminates the vitriol and emotional rhetoric.
This is true.
Not exactly how it works- and an important distinction- the parents are given a voucher for *less* than the public schools in the area charge. Said another way- public education per pupil dollars go *up* when charter schools are introduced into the system.
True story- in the area I live in the local government controls its' own budget. When we have surpluses in the budget, a town meeting is held to vote on what to do with the extra money. One of the smaller towns near where I lived ended up with a surplus of a couple hundred thousand dollars one year- the town voted to give all of that money to the top teachers in the district as a bonus- absolutely no strings attached- lump sum cash.
The teachers union legally blocked it.
Not one cent was being taken from their members to pay for it- and they used union dues to finance lawyers to block it in court. Instead the town ended up reducing the next years tax bill for all of its property owners. This is what the US system is actually like right now. The unions are actively doing everything they can to force good teachers out and into private schools. There are about 7,000 charter schools in the US right now- 37,000 traditional high schools(26K public, 11K private). Out of the top 100 schools in the US- charters have about a third, traditional private about the same, with public having the last third.
https://www.usnews.com/education/best-hi...l-rankings
Four of the top five are from a chain of charter schools in Arizona.
That is simply a generalized look at things. The unions here protect abhorrently bad teachers and refuse to allow good teachers to be paid more- in some cases significantly more- even when people are willing to give it to them. That sound like a good policy decision to you? I'm sure you know, there are teachers who give it their all, and *deserve* a big fat pay check, and others who just want an easy job with summers off. I am not saying teaching is easy per se, I'm saying any job that allows you to suck without repercussion is easy.
That is part of it. Now we need to get into what I personally think was- *BY FAR* the worst thing Obama did to this country. Core.
http://stopcommoncoreinmichigan.com/2014...president/
A mathematician that actually designed the curriculum talking about how bad it is-
http://www.npr.org/sections/ed/2014/12/2...-core-math
Now this last one is an article defending it, you are an educator, judge for yourself-
https://www.salon.com/2015/11/28/youre_w...you_think/
This is what Obama's policy and public education is doing to our children. Now supposedly this way of learning math is supposed to help people when they reach calculus in high school(or college for some). It has been a long time since I've done calc- not much use for it in my field- so I had three of my teenagers take a crack at how a third graders homework made any sense. With the four of us sitting at the table we were in the 700 aggregate IQ range- the three teens all having completed calc and my daughter doing higher levels and O chem course load for her major at that time- we couldn't figure it out.
This is elementary math. We weren't capable of completing it because they are teaching kids the wrong method of doing it. I say that because it is math- getting the correct answer is what matters(for the examples shown in that article, associative properties of multiplication are still a thing- even for liberals).
So, we have this horrific curriculum being force fed to our students in public schools by increasingly the poorest teachers available. Both of these elements, the abhorrent lessons themselves, and the way in which teaching is compensated, are 100% the lefts way of dealing with it. It has been an abject failure- and it isn't a borderline situation. Given the choice between sentencing a child to public schools or being offered a chance to send them to a charter school, it isn't a hard choice.
So this gets fairly complicated, but I'm going to give you the straight down the middle version of what is happening.
Right now, the US has a minimum line of income that is 'tax free' after which point you pay a percentage of each dollar graduating to a higher percentage for the more you make.
People pay state taxes also, which state you live in largely fluctuates how much you are going to pay- but the amount you pay to the state comes off of your total federal tax bill(not direct 1:1, but a heavy influence).
There are a staggering amount of deductions that can be taken also, leading to a massively huge amount of complexity in the US tax code.
The new plan removes almost all of those deductions and also removes the ability to deduct your state taxes while roughly doubling the amount of money you can make tax free(this plan works *very* well for low and middle class people in 'red' states).
Now here is where people get really angry. California votes for a state government that has staggering spending levels and huge taxes- that is what they vote for- all the power to them- but then they want to deduct that off of their federal tax bill and make the 'red' states pay proportionally more- this is how things are currently done. The new tax structure would make them actually pay their full federal taxes, and their state taxes that they vote for would be in addition to that amount.
You want to do the math on how that's going to work out for the uber rich? You know the stories about millionaires paying nothing with all the loop holes they use? Those days would pretty much be over. The people paying out straight up what they are supposed to that happen to be rich, yeah, they will probably come out quite a bit ahead.
In the end- what do you call it? I would seriously need to see the tax documents for an individual to be able to tell you if this new plan is a tax cut or not, particularly for the rich.
Hitler and Bernie Sanders were both populists too. Populist is a different sort of thing then right/left. Outside of those who revel in populist rhetoric, he has no support base. He *IS* radical- he just isn't 'right'.
Real world scenario that hits close to home for you SB- RIM/Blackberry. A decade ago they were a dominant powerhouse in the global economy having a net worth in the nine figure range employing ~20K people at what was likely ~$75K a year average salary. Now they are a punchline to jokes, employ about ~5K people and could be bought from the quarterly profits of real tech companies.
That's ~$750 Million a year out of the Canadian economy- almost entirely the middle class- because of their moron CEO- you don't think a $20 million a year salary would have been money *VERY* well spent?
This is not abstract, you know this actually happened. If you could go back in a time machine and hire a competent CEO for RIM and had to pay him $20 million a year- knowing he would save those jobs- you wouldn't?
I could bring up *FAR* larger examples on a numerical basis- but I figured I'd throw that out as it is a very real life example relevant to you of what CEO salaries can or can not get you.
Honest question, do you know what this actually is? I ask that as you benefit from this, a lot.
Right now because of all the free trade agreements business operate on an international level and have several ways to account for their profits. A big example of this would be GM- I'll use them because they are important to all of our economies. If GM makes $500 million in profit selling cars in Canada they can keep that money in Canada and pay Canadian corporate taxes on it- at a *SIGNIFICANTLY* lower rate then in the US. If they take this profit in Ontario, they pay $132.5 Million between federal and provincial taxes. If they count that as profit for the US, they pay $195.5 million on that same money. They leave the profit in Canada- pay Canadian taxes, that is off shored money.
Still want to send people to jail for this?
I'd be curious as to your answers for my two questions regarding those two points before I go further with them, just trying to make sure I understand exactly where you are coming from.
Legit thanks for your reply SB, an honest discussion is far more productive, even if we don't agree on a single thing in the end, if we can better understand each other's points, it eliminates the vitriol and emotional rhetoric.
Quote:You say my comment about the education system is bullshit, however it is a fact that Trump's education minister wants charter schools nation wide.
This is true.
Quote:Basically parents would be given vouchers to pay a private school for their children's education.
Not exactly how it works- and an important distinction- the parents are given a voucher for *less* than the public schools in the area charge. Said another way- public education per pupil dollars go *up* when charter schools are introduced into the system.
Quote:However if I had kids in the US system right now I would be terrified by what is about to happen.
True story- in the area I live in the local government controls its' own budget. When we have surpluses in the budget, a town meeting is held to vote on what to do with the extra money. One of the smaller towns near where I lived ended up with a surplus of a couple hundred thousand dollars one year- the town voted to give all of that money to the top teachers in the district as a bonus- absolutely no strings attached- lump sum cash.
The teachers union legally blocked it.
Not one cent was being taken from their members to pay for it- and they used union dues to finance lawyers to block it in court. Instead the town ended up reducing the next years tax bill for all of its property owners. This is what the US system is actually like right now. The unions are actively doing everything they can to force good teachers out and into private schools. There are about 7,000 charter schools in the US right now- 37,000 traditional high schools(26K public, 11K private). Out of the top 100 schools in the US- charters have about a third, traditional private about the same, with public having the last third.
https://www.usnews.com/education/best-hi...l-rankings
Four of the top five are from a chain of charter schools in Arizona.
That is simply a generalized look at things. The unions here protect abhorrently bad teachers and refuse to allow good teachers to be paid more- in some cases significantly more- even when people are willing to give it to them. That sound like a good policy decision to you? I'm sure you know, there are teachers who give it their all, and *deserve* a big fat pay check, and others who just want an easy job with summers off. I am not saying teaching is easy per se, I'm saying any job that allows you to suck without repercussion is easy.
That is part of it. Now we need to get into what I personally think was- *BY FAR* the worst thing Obama did to this country. Core.
http://stopcommoncoreinmichigan.com/2014...president/
A mathematician that actually designed the curriculum talking about how bad it is-
http://www.npr.org/sections/ed/2014/12/2...-core-math
Now this last one is an article defending it, you are an educator, judge for yourself-
https://www.salon.com/2015/11/28/youre_w...you_think/
This is what Obama's policy and public education is doing to our children. Now supposedly this way of learning math is supposed to help people when they reach calculus in high school(or college for some). It has been a long time since I've done calc- not much use for it in my field- so I had three of my teenagers take a crack at how a third graders homework made any sense. With the four of us sitting at the table we were in the 700 aggregate IQ range- the three teens all having completed calc and my daughter doing higher levels and O chem course load for her major at that time- we couldn't figure it out.
This is elementary math. We weren't capable of completing it because they are teaching kids the wrong method of doing it. I say that because it is math- getting the correct answer is what matters(for the examples shown in that article, associative properties of multiplication are still a thing- even for liberals).
So, we have this horrific curriculum being force fed to our students in public schools by increasingly the poorest teachers available. Both of these elements, the abhorrent lessons themselves, and the way in which teaching is compensated, are 100% the lefts way of dealing with it. It has been an abject failure- and it isn't a borderline situation. Given the choice between sentencing a child to public schools or being offered a chance to send them to a charter school, it isn't a hard choice.
Quote:As for the tax cuts, from what I understand he has disproportionately benefitted the rich, as a percentage.
So this gets fairly complicated, but I'm going to give you the straight down the middle version of what is happening.
Right now, the US has a minimum line of income that is 'tax free' after which point you pay a percentage of each dollar graduating to a higher percentage for the more you make.
People pay state taxes also, which state you live in largely fluctuates how much you are going to pay- but the amount you pay to the state comes off of your total federal tax bill(not direct 1:1, but a heavy influence).
There are a staggering amount of deductions that can be taken also, leading to a massively huge amount of complexity in the US tax code.
The new plan removes almost all of those deductions and also removes the ability to deduct your state taxes while roughly doubling the amount of money you can make tax free(this plan works *very* well for low and middle class people in 'red' states).
Now here is where people get really angry. California votes for a state government that has staggering spending levels and huge taxes- that is what they vote for- all the power to them- but then they want to deduct that off of their federal tax bill and make the 'red' states pay proportionally more- this is how things are currently done. The new tax structure would make them actually pay their full federal taxes, and their state taxes that they vote for would be in addition to that amount.
You want to do the math on how that's going to work out for the uber rich? You know the stories about millionaires paying nothing with all the loop holes they use? Those days would pretty much be over. The people paying out straight up what they are supposed to that happen to be rich, yeah, they will probably come out quite a bit ahead.
In the end- what do you call it? I would seriously need to see the tax documents for an individual to be able to tell you if this new plan is a tax cut or not, particularly for the rich.
Quote:You guys see him as a populist, I see him as a radical on many levels and in many ways.
Hitler and Bernie Sanders were both populists too. Populist is a different sort of thing then right/left. Outside of those who revel in populist rhetoric, he has no support base. He *IS* radical- he just isn't 'right'.
Quote:CEO salaries need to be capped or else they should be taxed to death.
Real world scenario that hits close to home for you SB- RIM/Blackberry. A decade ago they were a dominant powerhouse in the global economy having a net worth in the nine figure range employing ~20K people at what was likely ~$75K a year average salary. Now they are a punchline to jokes, employ about ~5K people and could be bought from the quarterly profits of real tech companies.
That's ~$750 Million a year out of the Canadian economy- almost entirely the middle class- because of their moron CEO- you don't think a $20 million a year salary would have been money *VERY* well spent?
This is not abstract, you know this actually happened. If you could go back in a time machine and hire a competent CEO for RIM and had to pay him $20 million a year- knowing he would save those jobs- you wouldn't?
I could bring up *FAR* larger examples on a numerical basis- but I figured I'd throw that out as it is a very real life example relevant to you of what CEO salaries can or can not get you.
Quote:Offshore tax evasion needs to be eliminated completely, with serious jail time for those who try to continue doing it.
Honest question, do you know what this actually is? I ask that as you benefit from this, a lot.
Right now because of all the free trade agreements business operate on an international level and have several ways to account for their profits. A big example of this would be GM- I'll use them because they are important to all of our economies. If GM makes $500 million in profit selling cars in Canada they can keep that money in Canada and pay Canadian corporate taxes on it- at a *SIGNIFICANTLY* lower rate then in the US. If they take this profit in Ontario, they pay $132.5 Million between federal and provincial taxes. If they count that as profit for the US, they pay $195.5 million on that same money. They leave the profit in Canada- pay Canadian taxes, that is off shored money.
Still want to send people to jail for this?
Quote:Those two changes alone are the two biggest social justice issues in terms of the tax code, IMO.
I'd be curious as to your answers for my two questions regarding those two points before I go further with them, just trying to make sure I understand exactly where you are coming from.