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[bryanw1995]

Do you say you "know" people you've never spoken to?

No, I don't.

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You are correct that I don't know anyone who drives a subcompact car, because a. the sentence above this one is true b. I'm in my freaking early 50s. In the USA, you don't stuff yourself into a tiny subcompact once you can afford a bigger car.

So you are saying that Toyota, Nissan, Suzuki, Mitsubishi, Mazda, Honda, KIA, Hyundia etc should all just close up their USA dealerships and go home because no americans ever purchase their cars and never have?!

You're fucking pathetic!

Way to have a mature discussion about cars.  I know that Rollo can bring out the worst in people, but he's more correct that you know I think in this case.  American manufacturers are struggling to meet their fuel economy targets not through lack of effort, but rather because Americans greatly prefer 15-20 mpg SUV/Trucks to things like...well, like the Yaris.

My Toyota buddy voted for the Yaris, I'm asking one of the Ford guys now haha

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Don't worry Rollo is only making himself look childish, not me.

In Australia we are even more dependent on cars than the USA is.  Take a look at a map of australia and the distances between major cities, not to mention the rural properties.

In spite of that small cars are a major success story here.  Australians probably own more cars per household than nearly anywhere else on the planet and keep them longer.

You will find a common theme of the past (getting less common now as small cars simply keep getting better and better and the old-fashioned buyers die out) is one large V6 or V8 vehicle and at least one small vehicle.

Nobody with any brains in their head commutes to and from work in a large vehicle unless that large vehicle is related to their work.  Why burn up your paycheck in fuels costs when you don't have to?!  Of course there are petrol heads, posers and "too-rich-to-care" types like Rollo that do anyway, there will always be exceptions.

Rollo's junk nissan in the video was obviously an abused vehicle (nissan bluebirds are a favorite cheap street racing car amongst petrol heads).  99.9% of vehicles sold to people who use cars responsibly and appropriately don't end up anything like that.

The Australian automotive manufacturing industry is shutting down entirely by 2017, the reason why is because hardly anybody wants to purchase the v6 and V8 large cars that they assemble at Ford and Holden (GM) anymore (Holden Commodore and Ford Falcon).  As for the factories that assemble asian cars locally, it is cheaper nowadays to close the plant down and have the vehicles built in Indonesia then shipped here.

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Super Moderator Gstan switched it to cars in post #5

The fact that I happen to be a (spam) moderator here is completely and utterly irrelevant to the topic.  I never asked to be a moderator, Dave asked me to be one out of the blue.  I accepted in order to help ABT out.  It just so happens that Super Moderators are the only ones able to purge spammers, regular modship can't do that, and once again, late last week I simply logged into the forums and discovered that Dave had now made me (and SteelCrysis) a Super Moderator.

If you have problems with that, go cry to Dave.

I have a problem with your being rude/disrespectful to people on the forum, whether you are a super moderator or not.  Though, again, you certainly get the benefit of the doubt as I know how annoying Rollo can be (and I haven't had the pleasure of arguing with him in years).

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Yaris safety is absolutely fine except maybe for head on collisions.  Don't have "accidents" and it doesn't even matter.
http://usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/car...is/Safety/

I don't tow boats or go bush or cart motorcycles around.  If I did, I'd grab a Toyota pickup to do that.  It wouldn't replace the Yaris for regular everyday driving.

Your son would be able to fit all his sports gear into the Yaris without issue.

We have snowy winters here in Tasmania too - at Cradle Mountain and Mount Wellington primarily.  You could get Yaris to both locations in a snowy  winter with no trouble at all.

Don't know what you pay for fuel in the USA but here a liter (not a gallon, a liter) of E10 (unleaded plus 10% ethanol) costs $1.33 AU ($1.03 US).

As for your friends with the electric car, perhaps they chose a power company that generates power from Hydro or wind, maybe they also have solar panels on their houses.

Like Ocre said, you don't speak for most americans, certainly not the younger ones I would suggest.  You are firmly stuck in the 50's and 60's.  You say you are nearly 50, well I'm 47 and I see the world the way most young people see it, you are already in your rocking chair in front of a fireplace smoking a pipe remembering how it used to be back in the "good old days".

1.  Wow, you live in Tasmania, that's pretty cool.
2.  Yaris still sucks
3.  Fuel here in Texas is ~ $2.50 per gallon...so roughly 66 cents per liter.  It might be higher where Rollo lives, however.
4.  Have you ever actually tried driving the Yaris through heavy snow on Cradle Mountain or Mount Wellington?  That would likely prompt you to buy a truck...
5.  I know plenty of "younger Americans" who prefer trucks or SUV's.  It's more of a geographic issue than an age issue:  if you live in an urban environment then Yaris or other small car is pretty popular, but if you live outside the city limits then it's truck truck truck 90% of the time.

edit: Ok, answer from Ford dealer: "The Yaris of course... The parts will be used on small go karts for years after it dies on the road". HAHAHAHHAHAHA

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BryanW-

As you apparently work in the auto industry here:

If Yaris's and F150s were free, do you think 99/100 people would be driving F150s, or 100/100? (and remember, GStan lives in Australia so he won't be skewing the data)

I posted a link in another thread that said Ford makes 75% of their income on the F150, and I bet you're right that Yaris's are pocket change to Toyota. F150s are good business, Yaris's would take Toyota to bankruptcy.

Well, you have to understand their markets.  Ford makes so much money off of F150 b/c they dominate the 2nd largest auto market in the world with it.  As it is also a growing market, they are wise to continue to invest billions into improvements so that they can maintain their market leadership.  Also, it doesn't hurt that the ASP is so high that they make a shit-ton on each one: a good rule of thumb is that for every new vehicle you buy, the manufacturer makes ~ 50% markup on the dealer invoice price.  IE, a $40k F150 makes Ford $20k when the sell it to the dealer, whereas a $15k Yaris makes only $7500 for Toyota.  Well, that would be the case if they had similar volume...however, Ford sells ~ 10x as many F150 as Toyota does the Yaris, so Ford might make more like 60% on the F150 and Toyota probably loses money (or barely mankes anything at all) on the Yaris.

As far as % of ownership, I'd say that where I live in Rural Texas you'd probably see 90% F150 and 10% Yaris if price/etc were identical.  In an urban environment in a "neutral" city...say some place like Las Vegas...probably more like 80/20 in favor of F150.  In LA or San Francisco though?  75/25 in favor of Yaris.

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Toyota quality is not what it used to be, and Ford's quality is enormously better now.  Plus, Ford makes a disproportionate % of their income off of the F150, whereas Toyota makes Jack Squat on a Yaris.  If I had to gamble on it, I'd predict that an average F150 built and sold today would last longer than an average Yaris.  And I don't work for our Ford or Toyota stores, though I am very good friends with dealers from both.  I just texted one of my Toyota friends with the following query:  What vehicle do you think will last longer for one purchased today: F150 or Yaris?  I can't wait to see reply.

Mine is a 2007 model and still as good as the day I picked it up from the dealership.

My money is on the Yaris outlasting F150.  Toyota builds their vehicles to last basically forever.  The american car-makers build their stuff to fail so you go purchase a new vehicle and keep putting money in their coffers.

Yaris is based off of Echo which was based off of Starlet, still plenty of both of them on the road.

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There are plenty of 8 year old vehicles from all of the "good" manufacturers that can make similar claims these days.  When I said that Toyota's quality had slipped, what I really should have said is "the other manufacturers are catching up to them".  Toyotas are actually more reliable today than they were 10 years ago; the problem is that Hyundai, GM, Ford, Kia, BMW, Mercedes, etc etc etc etc have all narrowed the gap considerably.  Even a "bad" or "unreliable" brand is, today, more reliable and longer-lasting than the old time Toyotas were.

I consider "good" to be a manufacturer with a significant presence in the US.  To name just a few Manufacturers off the top of my head (ie, not listing Lexus/Toyota/Scion individually)

Toyota
BMW
Hyundai
Ford
GM
Dodge
Kia
Honda
Nissan
Volkswagen
Subaru


None of the major Chinese/Indian/other companies are there yet.  I think that some will get there eventually, as well, but they are not there yet.

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Gstan, did you note the guy actually in the American auto industry posting:

A. No one with any means buys subcompact cars here
B. Tesla is a total fail, subsidized govt moochers
C. The F150 is a better car than a Yaris

Combined with all the stats I have posted, all I can say to you is "check mate". You've lost the debate.

Well, I later clarified on the subcompact car thing.  Probably 80-90% of average Americans across the entire country would buy the F150, but as I stated above, it all depends on where the buyer lives.  And Tesla isn't necessarily going to fail, their cars are actually pretty great.  It just owes all of its success thus far to govt subsidies (with an assist from OPEC's previous discipline in keeping oil prices high, which has lately disappeared).  Well, some of the success is due to the aura around Elon Musk, that dude is a transformative visionary.   He's probably the closest thing that we have to Steve Jobs these days.  F150 is light years better than Yaris though, you literally should never compare the 2.  And, of course, I can honestly say that I have NEVER had to sell any 1/2 ton truck, whether Ford/GM/Dodge/Toyota, against a Yaris or any other tiny car.  They are just completely different vehicles.