ABT Religion Thread

[BoFox]

I hope there's a benevolent "God" and have been known to pray.

I don't think there's a "God" that's a guy like us with magic powers as described in the Bible.

Such a being would have no use for human traits like jealousy, wrath, vengeance.

Let's say you have an anthill in your yard and the ants worship your wife as god because she dropped a donut one day. Are you jealous of the ants loyalties? No.

Let's say your son or daughter admires another adult. Are you jealous of the adult? No.

Let's say the ants eat your prize rose bush? Are you vengeful, or disappointed so you dump some poison on the ants pretty much without any feeling one way or another?

To "god" we'd be ants. As an ant, I understand I can't understand "god" but I hope he/she is less human than the Bible makes him out. (because we have issues)

Be that as it may, I'm not on board with the idea that a being who exists outside of time and can create worlds out of nothing is going to sit around thinking, "Crikey, this monkey is worshipping the Sun of all things! For this transgression I will torture him for eternity! The Sun! Pfft! Hope he likes it hot!"

Or "Good job at accepting Jesus Mr. Hitler! Got a comfy chair waiting in Heaven for you! You fucked up Ghandi! Putting you in Hell with the other undesirables!"

Or "I think I'll create this race of people, and give them free will. I'll put the choice in front of them to get reward and bliss beyond compare for eternity if they jump through some hoops, but if they fail to jump, going to torture them through eternity. I'll complicate the matter by not showing up for 2000 years, but hey, there are libraries and televangelists- they should figure out the way not to be tortured!"

Too much doesn't add up for me to accept the established dogma, but I am definitely open to the idea our origins weren't random chemical mixing, and we don't know where the chemicals came from in the first place.

I'm smart enough not to try and figure it out, so no cult here.

Above quotes from Rollo from the butchered thread. 

Great contemplation, and great philosophy, dude!  Living intelligence within us and before us in the "here and now" should not be discounted nor under-estimated, no matter how much the "authority" likes to claim a know-it-all stance as to the unintelligent/non-intelligent universe based on raw primordial soup alone.  I'll get back to you on this someday.

Ok, Rollo, getting back with ya on this as promised, lol..

RE:  "I don't think there's a "God" that's a guy like us with magic powers as described in the Bible."

--Not just magic, but God powers if there is a God..  anybody living from the 1700's warped to today would think that a smartphone has magic powers.

RE:  "Such a being would have no use for human traits like jealousy, wrath, vengeance."
--These are expressions of God's wrath on those who had freedom to choose (yet had personal wrath towards God); yet we can only perceive such according to our own emotions/understanding.  Perhaps it's really a 2-way street - as we're created in the image of God, our own wrath towards the Creator (holding the Creator/Creation, others in vain, etc..) is our own un-doing, a part of wrath itself as a whole.  Like, Hitler's wrath towards Jews all came back to himself, with the ultimate self-inflicted wrath.

RE:  "Let's say you have an anthill in your yard and the ants worship your wife as god because she dropped a donut one day. Are you jealous of the ants loyalties? No."
--If I created these ants, perhaps I'd be a bit jealous, if I was giving infinitely better things than a stupid donut, and then the ants ditched me for something so finite and temporary. 

RE: "Let's say your son or daughter admires another adult. Are you jealous of the adult? No. "
-Maybe, if the other adult is being admired more than me... 

RE:  "Let's say the ants eat your prize rose bush? Are you vengeful, or disappointed so you dump some poison on the ants pretty much without any feeling one way or another?"
Hell yes, who wouldn't?!?  Ha..

RE:  "To "god" we'd be ants. As an ant, I understand I can't understand "god" but I hope he/she is less human than the Bible makes him out. (because we have issues) "
--Well, we can try our best to be in harmony with the ultimate intelligence of the universe, if the universe consists of intelligence (as evidenced by our own intelligence to the very least here in this universe).  

RE:  "Be that as it may, I'm not on board with the idea that a being who exists outside of time and can create worlds out of nothing is going to sit around thinking, "Crikey, this monkey is worshipping the Sun of all things! For this transgression I will torture him for eternity! The Sun! Pfft! Hope he likes it hot!"

---  Perhaps the definition of "eternity" is really relative to the present life - like I cannot ever go back and change the bad things I did in the past, like with adultery.  Here we are, judging and eternally condemning others for murders done 50 years ago, with DNA findings and such.  Perhaps this is how it could be explained with my limited comprehension of God, if I can relate our own human judges (made in the image of God) to God.  

RE:  "Or "Good job at accepting Jesus Mr. Hitler! Got a comfy chair waiting in Heaven for you! You fucked up Ghandi! Putting you in Hell with the other undesirables!"

---  If there is a God (the ultimate intelligence of the universe), why shouldn't God be the judge? 

RE:  "Or "I think I'll create this race of people, and give them free will. I'll put the choice in front of them to get reward and bliss beyond compare for eternity if they jump through some hoops, but if they fail to jump, going to torture them through eternity. I'll complicate the matter by not showing up for 2000 years, but hey, there are libraries and televangelists- they should figure out the way not to be tortured!"

---  Not exactly "jump through some hoops"....  rather, it's to rest on the Sabbath, to not kill, cheat, etc..   unless you consider the rule "Do not kill" to be like jumping through a hoop?  Jesus said, "Take My yoke upon you and learn from Me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and YOU WILL FIND REST FOR YOUR SOULS. 30"For My yoke is easy and My burden is light." 
For the soul, that is, if one could believe this.

RE:  "Too much doesn't add up for me to accept the established dogma, but I am definitely open to the idea our origins weren't random chemical mixing, and we don't know where the chemicals came from in the first place.
I'm smart enough not to try and figure it out, so no cult here. "

---  Well, is the rule "Do not kill" just some established dogma that you'd break if you were a soldier instructed by the President to go out and snipe Al Qaeda members from the roof?  If it's ok in that case, perhaps it's ok if God told David to kill 10,000 enemy soldiers, in that case as well?  I don't even know myself, as I'm not God....  at least I'm not claiming that God is speaking to me and telling me to circumvent some of the commandments.  Perhap it's our nature at large (due to our initial sinful ignorance) to not YET see God, unlike the angels who are of a somewhat different nature/dimension/evolutionary stage in the great universal cycle of life?