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Quote:Since when have I ever argued that corporations should have more rights than people?!
In the arguments I have been in with Sick Beast- it has been me thrashing Canada for their corporate policies- 15% federal tax rate on multi billion dollar corporations- while working class people pay up to twice that.
He claims over and over again, that that is progressive.
If you are supporting an increase in taxation on the wealthy Americans as a solution to financial issues, well, one, you aren't looking at the hundreds of billions/trillions the government is already wasting, but more importantly to this discussion you are also supporting for wealthy Americans to pay *MORE* in taxes than corporations. They are a percentage point off right now, the proposed tax increases- which you have given every implication that you support- would mean working Americans would have less rights to their money than corporations based on *YOUR* support.
Quote:I've directly argued exactly the opposite on these forums multiple times. Try doing a search before going off half-cocked!
Hypocrisy bothers me greatly, I am assuming that you didn't realize what you were supporting- I used the corporate line to try and get you to pay attention to what I am saying 
Quote:We don't whinge and whine about any of the above either, it is simply part of what you do when you live within and contribute to the well being of society.
Yeah, so bash Rollo for making a small percentage more then you, but Exxon/Mobil.....? Sorry, I don't keep my head up my ass, I won't ever support corporations having more rights for anything over people. Increasing the top rate on the wealthy right now does *EXACTLY* that.
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12-31-2015, 08:11 PM
(This post was last modified: 12-31-2015, 08:12 PM by BenSkywalker.)
Quote:I am making my own arguments in this thread.
Quote:Both articles are guaranteed to give both Rollo and Ben fits...
The only part that gives me fits is the typical corporate promoted class warfare that you saw fit to parrot. It is a tool large corporations use to pit simple minded fools against those who have *SLIGHTLY* more so they will avoid paying attention to who holds *ALL* the actual wealth and power.
Quote:We don't whinge and whine about any of the above either, it is simply part of what you do when you live within and contribute to the well being of society.
Attacking the wealthy does not, in any way comprehensible, contribute to society- in fact it is detrimental to it in profound fashions.
Your arguments in this thread have been to promote class warfare via your links, then you partook in your own class warfare. Which corporation is pulling your strings? Do they like draw straws, or do they even fill you in? Do multiple corporations tell you how you need to belittle the guy making 40% more then you so can distract attention away from the corporation making 400,000% more?
Saying you aren't a lap dog for the corporations is one thing- actually behaving that way is something altogether different
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12-31-2015, 10:38 PM
(This post was last modified: 01-01-2016, 02:47 AM by SickBeast.)
Ben and Rollo, he said 2% more tax, not 2% of his total income. If you do the math properly that's $1620, not $5000. Go look up a tax calculator for Alberta and then multiply that by 1.02. I'm surprised you guys are actually successful if you can't even do math. Both of you can't read either. It must be your great publicly funded education system down there...oh wait a second...
It figures that both of you would spread lies and misinformation to try to make a point. It just shows how desperate and pathetic you both are.
By the way my calculations are based on a single person. For someone married with kids and some deductions it would be much less.
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Quote:Ben and Rollo, he said 2% more tax, not 2% of his total income. If you do the math properly that's $1620, not $5000.
Where is he avoiding sales tax? We do not have a federal sales tax, where I live we don't have *any* sales tax at all. I would like to hear how he managed to live all year at that income level and didn't pay a few thousand dollars in sales tax in Canada.
Quote:I'm surprised you guys are actually successful if you can't even do math.
Based on all of our conversations, I don't think you are in a league to have this discussion. Perhaps it is your abhorrent crime rate that interferes with your studies?
Quote:It must be your great publicly funded education system down there...oh wait a second..
Six times the density of top schools in the world where I live. You don't want to play this childish little game. You are going to lose time and time again.
Quote:By the way my calculations are based on a single person. For someone married with kids and some deductions it would be much less.
Sales tax. You have a federal sales tax, we don't. Math much?
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Quote: Oh yeah, and my total tax bill is about 2% higher than it would be in the USA
This can be taken more than one way. He "could" be saying , "I've calculated my taxes here and there, and the difference amounts to 2% of the tax I pay" or he could be saying, "Federal tax works out to 32% here and 30% there.".
I'm not ready to claim defeat based on your interpretation of the sentence, especially given the Canada sales tax Ben noted and your system's lack of deductions compared to here.
This is all irrespective of what I (and probably Ben) consider the larger issue:
Should some people be allowed to force others to pay for their benefit package by choosing either not to work, or to work at easier jobs that don't provide a benefit package.
That is the what we're objecting to, Canada's higher taxes are just insult to injury.
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(01-01-2016, 08:03 AM)gstanford Wrote: (12-31-2015, 08:11 PM)BenSkywalker Wrote: Attacking the wealthy does not, in any way comprehensible, contribute to society- in fact it is detrimental to it in profound fashions.[/color][/color]
Your arguments in this thread have been to promote class warfare via your links, then you partook in your own class warfare. Which corporation is pulling your strings? Do they like draw straws, or do they even fill you in? Do multiple corporations tell you how you need to belittle the guy making 40% more then you so can distract attention away from the corporation making 400,000% more?
You may want to read the articles I actually linked to....
They are NOT about the lower class attacking the upper class, precisely the opposite in fact. They are articles about the rich bastards bitching and moaning about having to pay all of their fair share of tax and not being able to easily minimize their tax anymore.
Article 1 - titled "The angry rich" http://www.nytimes.com/2010/09/20/opinio...ugman.html
Article 2 - titled "The wail of the 1%" http://nymag.com/news/businessfinance/56151/
No corporations pull my strings. I doubt you and Rollo are capable of saying the same. I'm employed through the state public service and my super fund is based on a worker collective. I have no shares in companies or bonds etc and I sure as hell shill for nothing and nobody!
Gstan, I have not had any corporate connections "shilling" since I quit the Focus Group shortly after the launch of the GTX680, and even before that the free engineering samples and games were never significant part of my economic picture. It's been a very long time since we've had to live on $10K/mo, so the "OMG! They gave Rollo some video cards that would have cost $800 if they were retail!" has always been different for me than most.
I can't speak for the "rich" because between us we don't even make the $250K the Canadian guy in the other article makes.
What I complain about is the injustice of targeting the group of taxpayers I am in, along with the rich, any time there is a shortfall while a huge chunk of people pay NO federal tax:
http://money.cnn.com/2013/08/29/pf/taxes...ome-taxes/
There aren't many of us, but there are LOTS of $50K and under taxpayers. If they were just taxed a little we wouldn't have to pay what amounts to $1000s more for us. Is their money to buy data plans for their phones or cable tv more sacred than ours? Why?
ANYONE can afford $25/month, and if you taxed all those people $10/month, you would probably raise enough to pay for the benefits they use and we don't.
I haven't done the math, and can't now, but it's seems intuitively accurate. Maybe I'll do it when I get back. (I'm at Northwoods cabin about 10' from a lake, time for Rollo Jr and I to ice fish.
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Quote:They are NOT about the lower class attacking the upper class, precisely the opposite in fact.
Uhm, if I was teaching on class warfare, I'd use the first one as an example of exactly how corporate shills promote class warfare. The second article?
Quote:Jake DeSantis, a 40-year-old commodities trader at AIG, was an unlikely face of Wall Street greed. Stocky and clean cut, with an abiding moral streak, he’d worked summers for a bricklayer in the shadow of shuttered steel mills outside Pittsburgh; he was valedictorian of his high-school class and attended college at MIT. Compared with the way many of his Wall Street brethren lived, with their Gulfstreams, Hamptons mansions, and fleets of luxury cars, his life wasn’t one to invite scorn. He had canvassed for Obama in Scranton on Election Day and drove a Prius. His division at AIG was profitable. And since joining the company in 1998, he had never traded a single credit-default swap.
Now his boss was selling him out. DeSantis left work that day feeling that his world was falling apart. The next day, the House passed—by a wide margin—a bill that would levy a 90 percent tax on bonuses at firms that were bailed out. The Connecticut Working Families Party planned to bus protesters to the homes of AIG executives in Fairfield County. There were death threats. “It’s been terrifying,” says his wife’s mother, Lynnette Baughman. “It’s like a witch hunt.”
That's what you are championing, good job. Even if you do look at the slimy people involved what exactly transpired? Oh yeah, the government *GAVE* billions to corporations while *TAKING* millions from people. Uhm, how is supporting that not a corporate shill?
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Sales tax in Alberta is 5%, cheaper than most states. As for the 2%, he said 2% of his total tax bill, not a 2% higher rate. There is nothing to interpret. You guys just need to learn how to read and take off the blinders. Reading comprehension fail. Fact manipulation fail. You guys are both crazy.
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SickBeast, Ben and I learned all about your country on TV, you cannot dupe us with you beer and bacon fueled antics.
No matter what you say, you cannot make me think, "Gosh, it's GREAT that in Canada a guy can be pulling down $100K with a Cadillac health care plan, get tired of the rat race, go live in his mom's basement and get free healthcare off working people."
Or "Hurray! In advanced Canada, they get to fund some skank who masturbates on a webcam for a living! Yay!"
Or, "What a good idea. The local pusher selling pills to HS kids gets free healthcare! Wouldn't want him missing a day of work poisoning and addicting our kids!"
It's just bat shit crazy. Criminal and slacker behavior shouldn't be rewarded by stealing money from the rest of us to subsidize it.
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(01-02-2016, 07:40 AM)RolloTheGreat Wrote: Or, "What a good idea. The local pusher selling pills to HS kids gets free healthcare! Wouldn't want him missing a day of work poisoning and addicting our kids!"
It's just bat shit crazy. Criminal and slacker behavior shouldn't be rewarded by stealing money from the rest of us to subsidize it. That's part of what I hate about drug dealers.
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(01-02-2016, 08:15 AM)gstanford Wrote: You are full of shit Rollo! I'll guarantee that the USA has more petty criminal activity happening than Canada (or Australia or Western Europe) has.
What is more the USA has more violent crime happening too thanks to retarded gun laws and people being pushed into a position where they have to commit crime to survive thanks to people with idiotic policies like yours.
Well, this all pretty random. Where did I say the US has lower crime than Canada or Australia?
I never would (because it isn't true) and doing so would lead to a pointless discussion along the lines of, "Gosh, you mean the 3000 Canadian people that all look and speak like each other and have the same culture get along with less friction than the bazillions who live here from dozens of cultures? Who would have guessed?"
No, I said in plain English that I don't like Canada's system of making people like me pay for health care plans for criminals and people who choose not to work at jobs where they would have health care plans.
Until Obama expanded Medicaid with ACA, we didn't have that in the USA. If a delightful young lady said,"Gosh, people will wire transfer money to me if I stick my private parts in a webcam" the money was what she earned for the activity and that was all.
President Obama and his constituents thought,"You know, medical care is expensive. That young lady needs a HMO like her counterparts who invested time and money in themselves and learned to become doctors, lawyers, and accountants. The people with the normal jobs should pay for her HMO, after all, everyone's work is important, even sticking your private parts in a webcam so men can masturbate."
That is exactly what socialism is, no more, no less.
I'd object to it for everyone here, because flipping burgers and stocking shelves used to be transitional jobs people took when they either didn't need a HMO because a spouse provided it, or they had for a short time while studying job skills or seeking more substantial work. Trade agreements and outsourcing ended that though, so I can (almost) see the necessity of subsidized HMOs for burger flippers and shelf stockers. There just aren't enough jobs anymore for everyone, and people who work their 40 hours at a real job should have some sort of health plans.
Adding criminals, the sex trade people, and guys like Apoppin is what annoys me. People who choose jobs way outside the norm and want us to fund them for no reason beyond their greed and selfishness.
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Quote:You are full of shit Ben! I can quote from the article too!
Attacking people- ignoring the corporation. Yep, they programmed you very well
Quote:personally, I'd throw every last ungrateful bastard in that story into solitary confinement in a prison and weld the doors shut!
And yet again- you attack the people and let the corporation slide. I can give you this- you are being extremely consistent in this thread- all of your comments have been against the people while letting the corporations actual actions slide.
Quote:What is more the USA has more violent crime happening too thanks to retarded gun laws
State I live in I can carry what is commonly referred to as an assault rifle around without an issue. Our crime rate appears to be significantly lower then Canada's, lower then Australia based on the numbers I can find by a decent margin too. Washington DC has some pretty crazy strict gun laws(by US standards)- they have the highest crime rate too(compared to any state).
Quote:Canada, Australia, Western Europe are all orders of magnitude more multi-cultural than the USA!
I have to assume you are trolling with this one- obviously none of those areas are remotely in the *league* of the diversity we have in the US, now to be fair, my state is slightly more white washed then even Australia which has an absurdly small ethnic diversity makeup- in California- which has quite a few more people then your nation, white's are a minority. Actually, California has almost exactly the same amount of minorities as your nation has people
Quote:and the reason everyone in those countries gets along so much better is not because we aren't all bigoted xenophobes (like you are suggesting citizens of the USA are) but because we treat everyone humanely and don't put them in a position where they are forced to resort to crime in order to try and get by.
Forced sterilization is treating people humanely? In all seriousness, your country's human rights record is disgusting. You won't ever see me bringing that up when discussing the upsides of the US because of how bad ours is- for the last hundred years yours is actually quite a bit worse. My wife grew up right outside of Stuttgart Germany btw, she thought your comment about Western Europe being more diverse was quite funny
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(01-02-2016, 07:34 PM)gstanford Wrote: Rollo Wrote:Well, this all pretty random. Where did I say the US has lower crime than Canada or Australia?
You are implying that those who "steal your money" are nothing but criminals.
Rollo Wrote:Or, "What a good idea. The local pusher selling pills to HS kids gets free healthcare! Wouldn't want him missing a day of work poisoning and addicting our kids!"
It's just bat shit crazy. Criminal and slacker behavior shouldn't be rewarded by stealing money from the rest of us to subsidize it.
No, I'm plainly stating that money appropriated by elected officials for less than honorable purposes is theft, implying nothing.
However; what you quoted here is just one obscene example of the problem with socialism. The dope pusher who collects free healthcare from the rest of us is the really ugly side of it, ne'er do wells like Apoppin who choose not to work at real jobs the more palatable side.
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Ben you are the epitome of what is wrong with America, I am sorry to say.
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(01-03-2016, 02:59 AM)SickBeast Wrote: Ben you are the epitome of what is wrong with America, I am sorry to say.
Yeah, he's the Devil himself.
Employing people, paying big bucks in taxes.
Got news- without guys like Ben and I there is no America. We're the guys paying tens of thousands in taxes to keep it going.
If it was up to Apoppin, the country would have collapsed.
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(01-03-2016, 02:59 AM)SickBeast Wrote: Ben you are the epitome of what is wrong with America, I am sorry to say. Damn straight.
(01-03-2016, 04:51 AM)RolloTheGreat Wrote: Yeah, he's the Devil himself.
Employing people, paying big bucks in taxes.
And that's why he's so scary–completely wrong jackasses like him run businesses.
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Honestly it's just the guns and the health care. America would be so much better. I'm surprised some of you guys can't see that. It's shocking to me. We have gun control here in Canada and you don't see the government controlling us en masse. You don't see countries like Russia taking us over either. The gun control lobby is based on paranoia and fear. The lack of health care is just basic greed on behalf of people like Rollo and Ben. Not just greed but selfishness as well.
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(01-03-2016, 04:56 AM)SteelCrysis Wrote: And that's why he's so scary–completely wrong jackasses like him run businesses.
He's not scary, he's just a realist. (although reality these days is pretty scary)
He understands "the no such thing as a free lunch" and "getting to be more shirkers than workers" principles.
Unfortunately for America, life is not much like what you see on tv. The people I know that make well into the 6 figures are working harder than I am, I don't begrudge them the cash. Trading their lives for it.
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(01-03-2016, 07:31 AM)gstanford Wrote: Rollo Wrote:He understands "the no such thing as a free lunch" and "getting to be more shirkers than workers" principles.
There are less workers and more unemployed (not shirkers) because the rich bastards deliberately exported all the manufacturing jobs to China, India, Bangladesh, Thailand, Mexico etc!
Removal of import tariffs made it impossible for American labor to compete.
This was complicated by big labor thinking low skill labor was worth $60-$80K, lots of vacation, a 75% pension, and healthcare for life.
It wasn't just corporate greed.
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Quote:That would be because in the linked articles it is the people, not the corporations squealing about having to pay their fair share of tax.
Corporations got *PAID* billions of dollars while the people had to *PAY*. Are you really so much of a corporate lackey that you can't see the issue with that? You really are brainwashed to an extreme degree.
Quote:Western Europe has changed since she last visited there. Nobody gets forced sterilized in the western world anymore.
Your country is doing it *TODAY*-
http://www.theguardian.com/australia-new...sabilities
Your country is barbaric. Western Europe was in regards to diversity. You and SickBeast seem to share a profound ignorance about your own nations. Maybe you should worry a bit less about the US's problems and get out of the fucking dark ages.
Quote:Australia is one of the most multi-culturally diverse nations on the face of the earth.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worl...countries/
Really?
Quote:Ben you are the epitome of what is wrong with America, I am sorry to say.
What are my political views Sick Beast? Why don't you take a shot and prove that you aren't as shockingly ignorant as your posts make you sound.
Quote:The lack of health care is just basic greed on behalf of people like Rollo and Ben.
You ready to stop acting like a fucking child and have a grown up discussion? We can get into the margins of all of the medicinal corporations along with those producing health care products around the world and their financials and exactly how that impacts pricing globally while also observing where their actual margins are, and what those would need to be changed to if the US's market were to adopt regulations comparable to yours.
Quote:There are less workers and more unemployed (not shirkers) because the rich bastards deliberately exported all the manufacturing jobs to China, India, Bangladesh, Thailand, Mexico etc!
What rich people? Name names. I can list corporations that have moved millions of jobs oversees, can't name any rich people. Bill Gates for some reason still has his grounds crew coming to his own house instead of sending them to cut someone's lawn in China.
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Wow, gstanford epic failed.
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Ok Ben how about this? How about the fact that here in Canada we spend half as much as the USA on health care per capita and EVERYONE IS COVERED.
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(01-04-2016, 06:25 AM)SickBeast Wrote: Ok Ben how about this? How about the fact that here in Canada we spend half as much as the USA on health care per capita and EVERYONE IS COVERED.
You mean everyone has limited coverage?
Quote:The Canada Health Act does not cover prescription drugs, home care or long-term care, prescription glasses or dental care, which means most Canadians pay out-of-pocket for these services or rely on private insurance.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_care_in_Canada
My guess is prescription drugs cost a "little".
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Don't even get me started on how much cheaper prescription drugs are here compared to the USA. That is for another argument though. Are you sure you want to go there?
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Quote:As of the 2011 national census 26% of the population were born overseas, 40% of people born in Australia had at least 1 parent born overseas.
If they are white, it doesn't count. All European culture, outside of Turkey if we are going to split that hair, is lumped together for both cultural and ethnic reasons. There isn't anything close to the difference between the Euro centric cultures to make a compelling argument against doing it that way, at least, not for anyone that has actually been exposed to a wide variety of cultures.
Quote:We most certainly are not barbarians down here, I know nothing about the sterilization case Ben brings up, what I can tell though is that those who did it will be found to have not had permission from our government to do what they did in the fullness of time.
It is not against the law in Australia, it is against the law here(and in every civilized nation that I am aware of). People do bad things the world over, when you have a country that doesn't make it illegal, that implies a level of complicity.
Quote:Ben as an American has no room to point the finger here - the USA has done the same and worse to their natives!
And if SickBeast were bringing up the human rights issues, I'd simply say- you got us there, no argument, next- Australia is rather impressive with the tiny population versus the atrocities it has committed.
Calif. female inmates sterilized illegally
The legality is all the difference in the world. That's why your nation is being investigated under the grounds of torture by the UN.
Quote:So shove that in your hillbilly smoking pipe and have a good toke on it Ben, you ignorant American fuckwit!
I live in the nation with the most powerful economy in the world, a nation that is supposedly blind to all the things that happen anywhere outside of our borders, and yet it appears I am better informed on the politics of your nation than you are in this instance. Honestly Australia seems like a very nice place, I likely will take a vacation there at some point(probably spent about a total of six months inside of the Canadian border)- but don't confuse things. The big difference in the US versus most other countries is we put our skeletons on fucking billboards and shout about them from the rooftops, not bury them in closets like most nations do. Really, SickBeast could beat other of us stupid with this topic- we can beat each other stupid- both of our countries have atrocious human rights records(outside of Canada's disproportionate native incarceration rate they are about as clean as it gets).
Quote:Don't even get me started on how much cheaper prescription drugs are here compared to the USA.
That is actually a great topic to get into.
Would you consider this fair?
I truly want to get your perspective on the advantages of the Canadian model.
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(01-04-2016, 08:57 AM)gstanford Wrote: I'd drag the ingnorant dullard there SB! Just let him try that shit with me and Australia!
Yes, I'm an "ignorant dullard".
Thank goodness I had the foresight to earn a couple University degrees. I'd be shoveling dung at the zoo if I weren't able to dupe employers with my diplomas.
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01-04-2016, 06:37 PM
(This post was last modified: 01-04-2016, 06:37 PM by RolloTheGreat.)
Places like Canada have the luxury of price controls because countries like the US foot the bill for the R&D.
Canada: We think you pharma companies should invest a couple billion to develop new drugs and then sell them at a loss so skanks that get naked on the web can afford your pills!
http://www.scientificamerican.com/articl...eeds-2-5b/
Your price controls are part of the reason our prices are high. You Canadian and Australian hobos won't pay your fair share, so the rest of the world has to pick up your tab. (or do without new drugs)
You're part off the problem, not the solution. Free lunch freeloaders. 
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(01-04-2016, 06:21 PM)gstanford Wrote: (01-04-2016, 06:14 PM)RolloTheGreat Wrote: (01-04-2016, 08:57 AM)gstanford Wrote: I'd drag the ingnorant dullard there SB! Just let him try that shit with me and Australia!
Yes, I'm an "ignorant dullard".
Thank goodness I had the foresight to earn a couple University degrees. I'd be shoveling dung at the zoo if I weren't able to dupe employers with my diplomas.
I wouldn't employ you no matter how many diplomas you waved under my nose!
I'll take somebody capable of showing common rare sense and reason every time over a paper certificate and most employers are exactly the same!
You posted your salary on BTR, I can't afford to work for you. So I guess it's a moot point.
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(01-04-2016, 06:55 PM)gstanford Wrote: What has my salary got to do with anything?! I might take a pay cut so employees can get 70K for all you know! 
Even if you're the second guy on the planet dumb enough to do that, you're still assuming you could hire me for $70K.
You couldn't, but I'll leave it up to your as to why that is. Maybe I just like the Head Baker's custom shoes and would miss seeing them, maybe we have the best darn coffee machine in a break room anywhere.
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(01-04-2016, 02:06 PM)BenSkywalker Wrote: Quote:As of the 2011 national census 26% of the population were born overseas, 40% of people born in Australia had at least 1 parent born overseas.
If they are white, it doesn't count. All European culture, outside of Turkey if we are going to split that hair, is lumped together for both cultural and ethnic reasons. There isn't anything close to the difference between the Euro centric cultures to make a compelling argument against doing it that way, at least, not for anyone that has actually been exposed to a wide variety of cultures.
Quote:We most certainly are not barbarians down here, I know nothing about the sterilization case Ben brings up, what I can tell though is that those who did it will be found to have not had permission from our government to do what they did in the fullness of time.
It is not against the law in Australia, it is against the law here(and in every civilized nation that I am aware of). People do bad things the world over, when you have a country that doesn't make it illegal, that implies a level of complicity.
Quote:Ben as an American has no room to point the finger here - the USA has done the same and worse to their natives!
And if SickBeast were bringing up the human rights issues, I'd simply say- you got us there, no argument, next- Australia is rather impressive with the tiny population versus the atrocities it has committed.
Calif. female inmates sterilized illegally
The legality is all the difference in the world. That's why your nation is being investigated under the grounds of torture by the UN.
Quote:So shove that in your hillbilly smoking pipe and have a good toke on it Ben, you ignorant American fuckwit!
I live in the nation with the most powerful economy in the world, a nation that is supposedly blind to all the things that happen anywhere outside of our borders, and yet it appears I am better informed on the politics of your nation than you are in this instance. Honestly Australia seems like a very nice place, I likely will take a vacation there at some point(probably spent about a total of six months inside of the Canadian border)- but don't confuse things. The big difference in the US versus most other countries is we put our skeletons on fucking billboards and shout about them from the rooftops, not bury them in closets like most nations do. Really, SickBeast could beat other of us stupid with this topic- we can beat each other stupid- both of our countries have atrocious human rights records(outside of Canada's disproportionate native incarceration rate they are about as clean as it gets).
Quote:Don't even get me started on how much cheaper prescription drugs are here compared to the USA.
That is actually a great topic to get into.
Would you consider this fair?
I truly want to get your perspective on the advantages of the Canadian model. The advantages of the Canadian model are that normal people can afford the drugs. Look at it this way, either they can sell 1,000 prescriptions to millionaires in the USA or they can sell millions of prescriptions to normal people. They will take in the same amount of money in both scenarios, except in Canada millions of people will be cured rather than a handful of really wealthy people.
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(01-05-2016, 05:57 AM)SickBeast Wrote: The advantages of the Canadian model are that normal people can afford the drugs. Look at it this way, either they can sell 1,000 prescriptions to millionaires in the USA or they can sell millions of prescriptions to normal people. They will take in the same amount of money in both scenarios, except in Canada millions of people will be cured rather than a handful of really wealthy people.
This is what's known as "talking out of your ass".
It's either a 1000 or millions, eh? No in between?
What's the profit margin for the 1000 and the millions?
Is this for all drugs or one specific drug?
Does your government even care or think about things like how many years it takes to break even on the drugs, or the number of years they have before they go generic?
socialism.
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01-05-2016, 10:46 AM
(This post was last modified: 01-05-2016, 10:46 AM by SickBeast.)
Actually the talking out your ass part was when you had the audacity and the stupidity to suggest that prescription drugs were cheaper in the USA. Once again I have proved you wrong and once again you refuse to eat crow. Stupid is as stupid does I suppose.
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(01-05-2016, 10:46 AM)SickBeast Wrote: Actually the talking out your ass part was when you had the audacity and the stupidity to suggest that prescription drugs were cheaper in the USA. Once again I have proved you wrong and once again you refuse to eat crow. Stupid is as stupid does I suppose.
Care to quote that?
Don't believe I said it.
Have said we pay less because our insurance covers it, and that you ride our coat tails because your regs wouldn't be possible without someone paying for the R&D.
Big difference.
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Quote:No they are not all white Europeans! (and the idea that all Europeans have one culture is laughably ignorant!)
In terms of counting different cultures, Europeans count as one for many, valid, reasons. You could contrast the culture in Las Vegas to Anchorage and would be hard pressed to find more similarities than differences- it still counts as one culture though.
Quote:Yes, it is fair for the most part. Australia runs a scheme that is almost identical to Canada's.
Actually, no, yours is very different. Canada pays the second most in the world for their prescription drugs, considerably higher then what you pay in Australia- I would have to double check, but in relative terms Canada is closer to our prices than yours if I recall correctly. You have to remember that Canada likes to promote the *idea* that they are progressive- but they are *extreme* corporate lackeys in any policy sense.
Quote:You Americans should count yourselves lucky that Cananda currently has a loophole that allows you to use their system to obtain cheaper medicine.
Canada uses price fixing. Second highest price in the world, but price fixed. Your government is actually subsidizing it, there is actually a fairly huge difference.
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(01-05-2016, 07:15 PM)RolloTheGreat Wrote: (01-05-2016, 10:46 AM)SickBeast Wrote: Actually the talking out your ass part was when you had the audacity and the stupidity to suggest that prescription drugs were cheaper in the USA. Once again I have proved you wrong and once again you refuse to eat crow. Stupid is as stupid does I suppose.
Care to quote that?
Don't believe I said it.
Have said we pay less because our insurance covers it, and that you ride our coat tails because your regs wouldn't be possible without someone paying for the R&D.
Big difference. You don't think we have insurance here to cover prescriptions and the dentist? Both you and Ben are completely ignorant about Canada, I'm sorry to say. You both have no clue. I guess for people who refuse to look beyond their own backyard I shouldn't expect anything different.
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01-06-2016, 06:36 PM
(This post was last modified: 01-06-2016, 06:53 PM by RolloTheGreat.)
(01-06-2016, 12:26 AM)SickBeast Wrote: (01-05-2016, 07:15 PM)RolloTheGreat Wrote: (01-05-2016, 10:46 AM)SickBeast Wrote: Actually the talking out your ass part was when you had the audacity and the stupidity to suggest that prescription drugs were cheaper in the USA. Once again I have proved you wrong and once again you refuse to eat crow. Stupid is as stupid does I suppose.
Care to quote that?
Don't believe I said it.
Have said we pay less because our insurance covers it, and that you ride our coat tails because your regs wouldn't be possible without someone paying for the R&D.
Big difference. You don't think we have insurance here to cover prescriptions and the dentist? Both you and Ben are completely ignorant about Canada, I'm sorry to say. You both have no clue. I guess for people who refuse to look beyond their own backyard I shouldn't expect anything different.
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I guess you couldn't quote it.
So we'll move on to:
I didn't say you couldn't get prescription insurance, I said it's not part of your national healthcare plan.
That's not the central issue to my objection to your healthcare though, allow me to ask again the questions not one socialism advocate has ever answered for me:
Three young ladies graduate high school with the same gpa.
One goes to college, borrows $50K, works part time while going to school full time for five years, then works as a chemical engineer and earns $100K a year and a private health care plan.
The other buys a laptop and a webcam, performs sex acts on the internet for people who wire her money, but has no healthcare plan. So she gets subsidized health care that people like the first woman chip in to pay for.
The last thinks both are too difficult, stays living at home occasionally working part time. Gets the subsidized health care from people like the first woman.
How is this fair to the first woman? Why do the people who choose not to have healthcare get to have the government steal it for them?
Who does society need more and who benefits society more?
I'll put it plainly:
If all the people like the second two march into the ocean, leaving the people like the first, society becomes paradise on Earth.
If all the people like the first march into the ocean leaving only people like the second, society becomes catch as catch can 3rd world Hell.
Yet people like you view the first woman as "selfish" because they object to letting others dictate what their level of charitable contribution should be. Disgusting.
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Rollo did you ever learn to share the toys in kindergarten?
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(01-06-2016, 06:36 PM)RolloTheGreat Wrote: One young lady goes to college, borrows $50K, works part time while going to school full time for five years, then works as a chemical engineer and earns $100K a year and a private health care plan can't get any decent-paying work because of entitled employers who think they're entitled to employees with 10+ years experience who are bilingual, then is stuck doing menial, low-paying work for the rest of her life, assuming she doesn't commit suicide.
How is this fair? Fixed it for you.
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(01-06-2016, 06:58 PM)SickBeast Wrote: Rollo did you ever learn to share the toys in kindergarten?
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These aren't my "toys", this is money I earn after substantial investment of money, time and labor.
Like every other socialist, you dodged the question because it boils down to "Why do some people get preferential treatment under socialism?".
People like me risk our assets on a college education, work hard to get ahead and stay ahead.
If our investment pays off, people like you say, "You have PLENTY of money! Give a little to Joe Potbhead who is perfectly happy living in my basement for $500/mo and eating leftover pizzas from his job at the Pizza Hut and having enough cash for beer and pot! You are SELFISH Rollo! Why would you want to spend that money on your own family, not Joe Pothead?!".
What is the matter? Didn't your Master's degree prepare you for the question?
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I would love to read Rollo's kindergarten report card. I'm sure there would be something in there about sharing.
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