Flint Michigan residents charged $150 a month for poisoned water

[dmcowen674]

1-27-2016

You can’t drink the water in Flint, but you still have to pay for it


Takeisha Major and her two sons moved into their home on Agree Avenue in East Flint, Mich., on Nov. 1, 2015. By Dec. 11, Major had already received two bills from the city of Flint for water and sewer fees totaling $655.64. She refuses to pay.

“I will not pay to be poisoned,” the 28-year-old Flint native said at her kitchen table Monday evening. “It’s not just me; my children have to live here. I will not pay for my kids to have lead in their blood.”

Less than a month before Major and her boys, ages 2 and 9, moved to their new house, Michigan Gov. Rick Snyder ordered Flint to rejoin the Detroit water system, where the city had long gotten its water from before it switched in April 2014 to the Flint River. For more than a year, Flint residents complained about the smell and color of the water, about skin rashes and hair loss.

Several water-boil advisories were issued following positive tests for coliform bacteria (indicating contamination from sewage) and trihalomethanes, which pose a cancer risk. Finally, after the release of two reports in September 2015 showing elevated lead levels in the blood of Flint residents, particularly children

Despite all this, Flint residents continue to receive monthly water bills from the city.

And these aren’t your average water bills. Well before the water was contaminated, Flint residents had been paying some of the highest water rates in the country. The average family pays the city of Flint upward of $150 for water every month. 

“If you don’t pay it, they’ll put it on your taxes for your house,” said one woman. “And if that don’t get paid, then they put foreclosure on your house.”

“If I don’t pay my water bill, then DHS will take my son away,” said another, referring to the state Department of Human Services

[dmcowen674]

It's beyond outrageous. 

[SickBeast]

I would like to see Rollo's opinion on this. To me this looks like a cheapskate Republican trying to save money by pumping polluted water into the homes of this community. It's really tragic. We have polluted rivers where I live and we would never under any circumstance use it for our drinking water. This entire situation speaks to horrible mismanagement on behalf of the government. Are you seriously telling me that all of a sudden they realized they had a problem with their drinking water setup? So they panicked and did this? Don't we pay the government to solve problems like this before they happen? I'm sorry, but the Republican clown that created this mess should not only be forced to resign but he should also face criminal charges IMO.

[RolloTheGreat]

I would like to see Rollo's opinion on this.  To me this looks like a cheapskate Republican trying to save money by pumping polluted water into the homes of this community.  It's really tragic.  We have polluted rivers where I live and we would never under any circumstance use it for our drinking water.  This entire situation speaks to horrible mismanagement on behalf of the government.  Are you seriously telling me that all of a sudden they realized they had a problem with their drinking water setup?  So they panicked and did this?  Don't we pay the government to solve problems like this before they happen?  I'm sorry, but the Republican clown that created this mess should not only be forced to resign but he should also face criminal charges IMO.

I think this is outside of partisan politics, and a horrific tragedy.

I also think people don't understand the situation here. Flint was a bankrupt town the state stepped in to try and salvage. They were buying water from Detroit, another bankrupt community.

There's no excuse for what happened there, but it certainly wasn't a normal government situation where you have financially sound departments providing well regulated service. Probably a revolving door of people involved, government scrambling to maintain services.

[BoFox]

I think I'm smelling a massive lawsuit win against the state (especially the water business)?? 

It's gonna be absolutely massive but the news media outlets are not giving enough attention to this.

[SickBeast]

Rollo how do you know that the Democrats would have done the same thing? That republican clown is a turkey. I can't believe you are making any sort of excuses for him. Non partisan? Anyone with a brain and common sense would not hook up that water feed to a polluted river. Everyone knew the river was polluted. Rollo this is another example of you making up nonsense.

[RolloTheGreat]

I think I'm smelling a massive lawsuit win against the state (especially the  water business)?? 

It's gonna be absolutely massive but the news media outlets are not giving enough attention to this.

Rollo how do you know that the Democrats would have done the same thing?  That republican clown is a turkey.  I can't believe you are making any sort of excuses for him.  Non partisan?  Anyone with a brain and common sense would not hook up that water feed to a polluted river.  Everyone knew the river was polluted.  Rollo this is another example of you making up nonsense.

You are a total asshole. Complete, total asshole.

A person made a tragic, incorrect decision. Had nothing to do with his political party or what church he attends.

I'm back to not believing you're a teacher, or feeling sorry for kids in your town if you are. So very, very stupid. Not even close to having powers of reasoning. Don't even realize how offensive your trivialization of this tragedy is, just keep babbling about "Someone stupid, must be a Republican, because they're all stuipid".

I think you've proven to me Canadian education is right up there with pre WW1 Borneo.

[SickBeast]

Guys I think Rollo is on a bender.

By the way, Rollo, I'm not trivializing anything.  In fact you are the one doing so.  You're turning a blind eye to holding that Republican idiot accountable for what has to be one of the stupidest things I have ever seen someone in government do.  You're trivializing what the people of Flint are going through by refusing to acknowledge the fact that it was their own government that caused the problem.

I have news for you.  When things go wrong people tend to want to determine the reason.  It's how we do better in the future.  Perhaps you don't care about that. I know I do, and I know that I expect the people in my government to do so as well.

[SickBeast]

I seem to have pissed Rollo off.

[SickBeast]

You know, Rollo is my chosen Sith Lord. As punishment for his transgressions I command that he be transformed. Here is Rollo's transformation:

[RolloTheGreat]

Guys I think Rollo is on a bender.

By the way, Rollo, I'm not trivializing anything.  In fact you are the one doing so.  You're turning a blind eye to holding that Republican idiot accountable for what has to be one of the stupidest things I have ever seen someone in government do.  You're trivializing what the people of Flint are going through by refusing to acknowledge the fact that it was their own government that caused the problem.

I have news for you.  When things go wrong people tend to want to determine the reason.  It's how we do better in the future.  Perhaps you don't care about that.  I know I do, and I know that I expect the people in my government to do so as well.

I'm not refusing to acknowledge anything.

I'm angry that you don't understand there is a difference between some people trying to do well making a horrible, tragic mistake at their jobs and something where you really should be calling for jail time like when that cop shot the traffic stop guy in the back.

YOU are part of the government, and a liberal. (whatever your Canuck equivalent of a Democrat is) If you were driving the school bus on a field trip and slid off the road on some black ice and hurt some kids, I wouldn't be posting "Typical stupid Democrat! Can't even drive! Throw away the key after you cage him like the animal he is!".

No.

I be mourning the tragedy, just like I am here.

You don't even seem to get these people's poverty is part of what led up to the situation. They were customers of a broke utility trying to provide a service without money because the people couldn't pay their bills. Doesn't excuse the mistake made, but the collapse of that area certainly didn't make matters any better.

[BoFox]

Still, absolutely no excuse to poison all of these people.  Not even a warning was issued. 

No matter how broke the gov't was, the gov't could have declared a state of emergency, gotten immediate aid and relief for the population...   

Perhaps Detroit and Flint are early indicators of what is to come for the US....  Cleveland, Buffalo, Rochester, Syracuse, Allentown, Youngstown, Akron, Dayton, Toledo, Pittsburgh, Chicago, Milwaukee, St. Louis, Cincinnati, Louisville, Memphis, Birmingham....   all could very, very easily become the next Detroit/Flint - as these cities are all following the same trend.

[RolloTheGreat]

Still, absolutely no excuse to poison all of these people.  Not even a warning was issued. 

No matter how broke the gov't was, the gov't could have declared a state of emergency, gotten immediate aid and relief for the population...   

Perhaps Detroit and Flint are early indicators of what is to come for the US....  Cleveland, Buffalo, Rochester, Syracuse, Allentown, Youngstown, Akron, Dayton, Toledo, Pittsburgh, Chicago, Milwaukee, St. Louis, Cincinnati, Louisville, Memphis, Birmingham....   all could very, very easily become the next Detroit/Flint - as these cities are all following the same trend.

They surely didn't know to warn, if they did, they would have.

(and probably just shut off the water)

No one outside a James Bond movie super villain would do this on purpose. They just Fd up on a big scale.

I interviewed someone a few weeks ago who told me of a "big" money screw up they had made, I've seen similar things in my years in the work world.

People aren't perfect the checks in place sometimes fail. (usually without health risk, but why do you think Drs carry malpractice insurance?)

[RolloTheGreat]

BTW we wont see the city's side of this for some time, too much money at stake.

Until then rumors will fly like, "They filled a fish tank with water and within 5 minutes, all the fish were dead!" or "A guy that got fired from the water plant for being drunk on the job too much tried to tell them, they would not listen!".

The trials will happen and we'll probably get info like, " Detroit is broke and they raised the price of their water beyond what we could pay. We tested the purified river water at an end of town where the coating on the lead pipes was newer, the records of the older pipes were lost. We found out the same time the world did."

Or something like that.

Which doesn't make it right, but does make it better than "Rich Republican Gov says "Let the poor drink industrial waste! We import our water from France in Grosse Point!"

[BoFox]

My ass, Obama declared it as a state of emergency with a capped $5 million federal fund (which is still bullcrap amount of $).  Authorities were saying ok for a year that brown tap water from Flint river was ok to drink.  Locals refused to believe the authorities.  

For eighteen months, officials assured residents that the water – which would sometimes come out of the tap brown – was safe.

Even houseplants are dying from being watered with that oily chemcial-saturated crap.



  It even causes rashes.  So much evidence, and so much denial....   ........duh, of course the authorities naturally deny.  The evil-doer naturally denies being at fault.

The notices sent to water customers say Flint water is safe to drink but warns those with "a severely compromised immune system, (who) have an infant or are elderly" that they "may be at increased risk and should seek advice about drinking water from your health care provider."

What a pissing guilty joke that is!!!


Stephen Hawking Warns Humanity: Leave Earth Before the Ruling Class Destroys It
 http://www.trueactivist.com/stephen-hawk...stroys-it/

[SickBeast]

Here you go, Rollo, another water crisis in your own backyard:

http://www.jsonline.com/news/milwaukee/m...54751.html

Erin Brokovich is calling it a "national crisis" and says that Flint is "the tip of the iceberg".

They are saying that Louisiana is also having a big problem along with several other places. Actually when I was in New Orleans over the summer, there was a water advisory. They said not to drink the water or even bathe in it. The advisory was lifted while we were there but we didn't take any chances and we drank bottled water. Actually a good friend of mine is overseas right now and his entire family caught a horrible bug from drinking the water. They were all hospitalized and put on IV units. :(

I was just looking at a map.  Flint is land locked and only has a couple of small rivers flowing nearby.  To be honest with you guys, here in Canada we probably take clean water for granted, we have it in abundance.

It looks as though the government is going to have to do something about this.

[RolloTheGreat]

Here you go, Rollo, another water crisis in your own backyard:

http://www.jsonline.com/news/milwaukee/m...54751.html

Erin Brokovich is calling it a "national crisis" and says that Flint is "the tip of the iceberg".

They are saying that Louisiana is also having a big problem along with several other places.  Actually when I was in New Orleans over the summer, there was a water advisory.  They said not to drink the water or even bathe in it.  The advisory was lifted while we were there but we didn't take any chances and we drank bottled water.  Actually a good friend of mine is overseas right now and his entire family caught a horrible bug from drinking the water.  They were all hospitalized and put on IV units. :(

I was just looking at a map.  Flint is land locked and only has a couple of small rivers flowing nearby.  To be honest with you guys, here in Canada we probably take clean water for granted, we have it in abundance.

It looks as though the government is going to have to do something about this.

Yeah big water crisis going on here, it's like the 3rd world.

It's a big place here SB, not some backwoods villages like Canada.

You have lots of clean water because so much of your country is uninhabited. We have some isolated problems with our aging infrastructure that will be addressed.

[SickBeast]

Backwoods villages? Maybe in the north. Something like 90% of Canadians live within 100km of the US border. It's not like it's a different world up here. By and large things are very similar. I think that the difference is that most of our big cities are all built on huge bodies of water. Actually someone was telling me that Vancouver has the cleanest drinking water on earth. Toronto is on the Great Lakes, Montreal is on the St. Lawrence River, and Ottawa is on the Ottawa River. Those are all clean and dependable sources of water. And the population of those cities probably accounts for at least half of our population once you take into account the surrounding areas.

That is the big difference. Most of the USA is land locked without a source of water like the Great Lakes. You guys are stuck using some tiny little river that is easily contaminated like what happened in Flint. It's a sticky situation. I remember hearing that California was begging Minnesota for some water and they said "no". Maybe instead of all these oil pipelines we need to built some water pipelines.

[SteelCrysis]

On top of that, we seriously need to cut our water consumption considering how large it is.

[SickBeast]

I dunno, it's pretty hard to use less water. We need it to survive. That being said, a lot could be done to collect greywater in people's homes. You can use greywater for a lot of things like doing laundry or flushing the toilet. Do people do this in places like California? We could also be collecting rain water. Actually I saw this cool gizmo on Amazon that treats rainwater so that you can drink it. Maybe one day we will all just be our own utilities, water and electricity. We have the technology to do it to a large extent.

[SickBeast]

Here you go, Rollo, another water crisis in your own backyard:

http://www.jsonline.com/news/milwaukee/m...54751.html

Erin Brokovich is calling it a "national crisis" and says that Flint is "the tip of the iceberg".

They are saying that Louisiana is also having a big problem along with several other places.  Actually when I was in New Orleans over the summer, there was a water advisory.  They said not to drink the water or even bathe in it.  The advisory was lifted while we were there but we didn't take any chances and we drank bottled water.  Actually a good friend of mine is overseas right now and his entire family caught a horrible bug from drinking the water.  They were all hospitalized and put on IV units. :(

I was just looking at a map.  Flint is land locked and only has a couple of small rivers flowing nearby.  To be honest with you guys, here in Canada we probably take clean water for granted, we have it in abundance.

It looks as though the government is going to have to do something about this.

Yeah big water crisis going on here, it's like the 3rd world.  

It's a big place here SB, not some backwoods villages like Canada.

You have lots of clean water because so much of your country is uninhabited. We have some isolated problems with our aging infrastructure that will be addressed.

You have problems with aging infrastructure because your capitalist pig masters are too greedy to properly maintain the assets or replace them at the end of their expected working life.

America is falling apart under the strain of aging infrastructure that the rich bastards charge a fortune to access and won't maintain.  It will cost ordinary Americans billions upon billions to eventually fix.

I don't think this is fair to put directly into the lap of the Republicans, as much as I can't stand them. It is largely a local issue. The situation in Flint was different because the governor was heavily involved and there is evidence that he was a big part of the problem. Generally speaking, though, water infrastructure is the responsibility of local governments. I don't know about you, but I don't like paying a lot of property tax. For my home we pay about $100/month. In some places nearby for a similar home they pay $200 and get less services than we do.

In the USA do the municipalities not own the water infrastructure? Are you telling me that the water utilities there are privately owned? If so, then that could indeed be the problem.

My point, however, is that it's not the "pig master's" fault. This is a local government issue. It's why we pay taxes. If you want better water infrastructure, you'd better be willing to pony up with more taxes, which is only fair. These things happen all the time. The government will sometimes put a levy on your taxes to pay for something like this. It only makes sense IMO.

[SickBeast]

I have to say that from what I've seen, you guys are doing things right down in Australia. The way I look at it, the US government is OK, the Canadian government is good, and the Australian government is excellent. I think the west could learn a lot about how to do things better from what's happening in Australia.

[RolloTheGreat]

Here you go, Rollo, another water crisis in your own backyard:

http://www.jsonline.com/news/milwaukee/m...54751.html

Erin Brokovich is calling it a "national crisis" and says that Flint is "the tip of the iceberg".

They are saying that Louisiana is also having a big problem along with several other places.  Actually when I was in New Orleans over the summer, there was a water advisory.  They said not to drink the water or even bathe in it.  The advisory was lifted while we were there but we didn't take any chances and we drank bottled water.  Actually a good friend of mine is overseas right now and his entire family caught a horrible bug from drinking the water.  They were all hospitalized and put on IV units. :(

I was just looking at a map.  Flint is land locked and only has a couple of small rivers flowing nearby.  To be honest with you guys, here in Canada we probably take clean water for granted, we have it in abundance.

It looks as though the government is going to have to do something about this.

Yeah big water crisis going on here, it's like the 3rd world.  

It's a big place here SB, not some backwoods villages like Canada.

You have lots of clean water because so much of your country is uninhabited. We have some isolated problems with our aging infrastructure that will be addressed.

You have problems with aging infrastructure because your capitalist pig masters are too greedy to properly maintain the assets or replace them at the end of their expected working life.

America is falling apart under the strain of aging infrastructure that the rich bastards charge a fortune to access and won't maintain.  It will cost ordinary Americans billions upon billions to eventually fix.

Capitalism is the economic system that provides us with opportunity to amass wealth and ability to keep what we've earned.

I'll take that over bullshit "OK, you lot spend a lot of money and effort to amass some wealth, so we can give it to those slackers, dopers, boozers, and criminals who don't feel like working."

You Sick Beast live in Bizarro World in my opinion, brainwashed into believing some people get to decide they are owed a living at the expense of others.

[RolloTheGreat]

I have to say that from what I've seen, you guys are doing things right down in Australia.  The way I look at it, the US government is OK, the Canadian government is good, and the Australian government is excellent.  I think the west could learn a lot about how to do things better from what's happening in Australia.

No thanks, we like it as is here.

Have you guys ever considered that the socialist programs you advocate will only make the government MORE broke?

[SickBeast]

I have to say that from what I've seen, you guys are doing things right down in Australia.  The way I look at it, the US government is OK, the Canadian government is good, and the Australian government is excellent.  I think the west could learn a lot about how to do things better from what's happening in Australia.

No thanks, we like it as is here.

Have you guys ever considered that the socialist programs you advocate will only make the government MORE broke?

In what way? Our current government is spending most of their money on infrastructure which will stimulate our economy. Our health care costs half as much as what you guys pay in the US per capita. Our education system is top notch. The last time I checked, those are the three main things that we need a government for. So I would say that our government is much better than what you have in the US. Not only that but corporate taxes are much lower here and believe it or not, income taxes are comparable. The one area where we generally pay more is sales tax but that varies by jurisdiction. So yes, we pay a little more in taxes, but we get a lot out of it.

Maybe it's because of the colder climate here. We take care of our poor. We don't sit by and watch our neighbors freeze to death. I guess in many parts of the USA if you're homeless it's not a death sentence. If you're living on the streets here and it's -30C with the wind chill, there's a good chance that you're dead in the morning. Most homeless people are homeless out of no fault of their own, either. They are in a desperate situation.

Like I have said to you before, money is only so important. You can't take it with you when you die. You might as well use it to help people and make a difference in your community. Most people are too selfish to do that. Instead they squander it on things like booze and gambling.

[RolloTheGreat]

Ah yes, our superior neighbor the North that send 4X as many people here as we send there, and has 1/10 of the international immigration rate even though they make it easier to get in.

The world's best kept secret, the place everyone is leaving and no one is going to.

[SickBeast]

Have you ever looked into renouncing your US citizenship, Rollo? Because from what I understand they won't let you and they will come after you for taxes even after you leave the USA.

Also like I mentioned, the people leaving here for the USA are mostly retired people wanting to live someplace warm. So yes, you guys have nicer weather.

You're just flame baiting and trolling like you always do. You seem like you're having a bad week.

[SickBeast]

Here, you want to say that your immigration system is somehow better? Read this:

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/in-immi...2013-10-18

You are a total turkey man. I don't even know what to say to you.

Here's another article:

http://www.economist.com/blogs/democracy...mmigration

And this disproves you BS nonsense about the USA having a higher immigration rate:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_co...ation_rate

But let me guess: You still think you're "right". I have news for you: You are a total idiot and I'm sure you're a hazard wherever you go. You have a lot of growing up to do and quite frankly I think you need help.

[SickBeast]

Here Rollo, for your obsession about being "right" all the time:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obsessive%...#Treatment

I'm not saying that's what you have but your behavior is suggesting that it's a strong possibility.

[RolloTheGreat]

Have you ever looked into renouncing your US citizenship, Rollo?  Because from what I understand they won't let you and they will come after you for taxes even after you leave the USA.

Also like I mentioned, the people leaving here for the USA are mostly retired people wanting to live someplace warm.  So yes, you guys have nicer weather.

You're just flame baiting and trolling like you always do.  You seem like you're having a bad week.

No bad week here, old buddy SB. Actually a very GOOD week.

[SickBeast]

I guess it's easy to talk about sunshine when I have completely proven you wrong.

[RolloTheGreat]

Here, you want to say that your immigration system is somehow better?  Read this:

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/in-immi...2013-10-18

You are a total turkey man.  I don't even know what to say to you.

Here's another article:

http://www.economist.com/blogs/democracy...mmigration

And this disproves you BS nonsense about the USA having a higher immigration rate:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_co...ation_rate

But let me guess:  You still think you're "right".  I have news for you:  You are a total idiot and I'm sure you're a hazard wherever you go.  You have a lot of growing up to do and quite frankly I think you need help.

Yes I still think I'm right and I still think you're an idiot.

A. The first article should be familiar to you, because I used it as illustration of your easier immigration process.(remember me saying it's easier to move to Canada...more than once?)



B. Your second article just talks about why Canada likes immigrants, but that has nothing to do with anything we're talking about.



C. I linked to your own hillbilly government saying 4X as many people move from Canada to US as US to Canada.



D. I linked to immigration stats and you respond with migration stats. Wait for it.....



I don't believe you're a teacher with a masters degree, unless it's from 3rd rate college.

[SickBeast]

Yep guys. It's an obsession. Rollo can't stand being wrong. He just can't live with it. Somehow his brain cannot accept it. Like I said, I suspect OCD. It's too bad. He's not going to change any time soon.

[SickBeast]

Rollo just for good measure I just checked and the USA allows 1 million immigrants per year. Here in Canada we take in 250,000. So per capita we take in way more. Multiply the 250,000 times 10 and we have 2,500,000 versus 1 million for the USA. So again you have been proven completely wrong.

[BoFox]

Capitalism is the economic system that provides us with opportunity to amass wealth and ability to keep what we've earned.

I'll take that over bullshit "OK, you lot spend a lot of money and effort to amass some wealth, so we can give it to those slackers, dopers, boozers, and criminals who don't feel like working."

Capitalism to the capital "C", you mean?  *sighs*...  I don't think any of us are for Communism to the capital 'C', either, but Capitalism is currently screwing over 50% of Americans in the ass as global capitalization takes it course after America had its initial early success thanks to slavery, prime estate, technological prowess during the world wars, and giving leeway to the corporations with extravagant tax incentives until the corporations still did not think it was worth it to keep the Americans employed. 

Bachelors degrees will soon be regarded as something like a high school diploma.  Masters will be regarded as bachelors.  Even Ph.D.'s will have a hard time getting a job as a secretary, when there are just too many desperate Ph.D.'s.  Imagine putting a million Ph.D.'s in Africa?  Would all of them immediately qualify for a job?

India was almost always even more "Capitalistic" than the US.  Everything is like sewer in India.

[BenSkywalker]

There is no such thing as a government going broke. Goverments create FIAT currencies (money) and issue it.

That wildly inaccurate lie ended up being the main catalyst for the creation and rise of a political party in the 20th century, the National Socialist German Workers Party. 

[BenSkywalker]

We are not talking about bitcoins, cheques, credit cards etc here, we are talking about government issued legal tender that can be used to pay for anything.

Of course, the ancillary currencies couldn't hope to inflict the level of death and misery that their legal tender alternative counterparts do.

Creating money to keep people employed and have economies flowing through communities so that they can function correctly is not irresponsible.

That was the intent of Weimar policy. Excessive debt and creation of new currency have proven to be the most destructive economic policy the world has ever seen. It wasn't done to bolster the wealthy, it was an attempt to save the working class and the government itself. If you want to call the results of that sound economic policy......

[BenSkywalker]

You seriously want to use Germany's post WW1 debt problem and Hitlers "solution" to it as a valid example of how, rational, legitimate and compassionate goverments set monetary policy (or anything else)?!

......... you should seriously attend the school board meetings in your area. They clearly don't teach much in the way of history.

The Weimar Republic were the people using the economic policy you are championing. They were doing it for precisely the reasons you state.

You are a fucking pathetic troll, worse than Rollo

You were voicing your support for what has *PROVEN* to be the poorest economic policy in the history of the world. I helped a student work on a masters thesis for this subject not too long ago. You want to play boy? You are out of your fucking league.

[RolloTheGreat]

Rollo just for good measure I just checked and the USA allows 1 million immigrants per year.  Here in Canada we take in 250,000.  So per capita we take in way more.  Multiply the 250,000 times 10 and we have 2,500,000 versus 1 million for the USA.  So again you have been proven completely wrong.

I guess in your mind you have.

What does per capita have to do with this at all? Per capita shows prevalence within a population. We're talking about raw immigration/emigration.

Your caps info is a factor in it, but the vast majority of our immigrants are illegal.

[BenSkywalker]

What I described above is the way every last major economy in the world has worked for at least the last century!

We'll take this in two parts-

There is no such thing as a government going broke.

This is not true. It is a flat out lie. Governments can, have, are currently and will in the future go broke. There are countermeasures available- the one currently accepted by the global economy is issuing of bonds against government debt. Increasing the amount of currency produced has proven to be the poorest possible solution to deal with the situation, it was likely the single biggest factor in what ended up being WW2- at least for the European theater.

Goverments create FIAT currencies (money) and issue it.

Utilizing this power in order to negate debt leads to staggering and crippling inflation, not some of the time, every time. 

Now, getting back the actual point you made in your most recent post-

What I described above is the way every last major economy in the world has worked for at least the last century!

No, the EU doesn't allow a negative budget for their member states. I would say the EU certainly qualifies as a major economy considering it is the largest in the world when viewed as a collection of states. Given that it is the second most powerful currency(in terms of global reach, if UK joined in it would be the most powerful) and it does not allow budget deficits I would say rather emphatically that no, not every government works the way in which you seem to believe.

Seriously, what the hell is up with you and your German obsession?!

It was the singular event that made debt manipulation by increasing total currency unacceptable for the world. You brought up a very specific combination of factors that allowed for the creation of the Nazi regime.

You drag it into everything and are worse the SteelCrysis with it!

US, UK, Russia, China and Germany are the five most powerful nations when looking at the modern era. One of those nations has experienced hyperinflation doing exactly what you brought up, and it directly led to a series of events that caused the bloodiest war in history. I could have brought up Hungary in '45-'46- another example where many people believed the reason the government did what you are saying(printed more currency to offset debt) was done *solely* to destroy the middle class. I could have used that example, and that was actually more severe on a mathematical basis(inflationary rate was considerably higher then it was in Germnay), but nobody would have a clue what I was talking about. So, I used the most historically visible example.