Trump saves 1,000 Indianapolis jobs that Carrier was going to move to Mexico!!!

[dmcowen674]

Update: 11-30-2016

Trump is not even President yet and he saved jobs from leaving the U.S.

Getting more details and official News conference will be tomorrow 11-31-2016

President-elect Donald Trump and Carrier have reached a deal that will keep nearly 1,000 factory jobs in Indiana

Carrier poses an early critical test for Trump, who promised during the campaign to keep American jobs from fleeing to Mexico.

Trump and Mike Pence, the vice president-elect and current governor of Indiana, will be in Indiana on Thursday to announce the deal, Carrier said.

The company, which is owned by defense contractor United Technologies, announced in February that it would close two Indiana plants -- a Carrier plant in Indianapolis that employs 1,400 workers and a United Technologies Electronic Controls plant in nearby Huntington, Indiana, that employs 700.

Carrier did not elaborate on the terms of the deal, but it is on the record, as are most other major multinational businesses, as wanting to see a cut in corporate tax rates, especially as it applies to cash earned overseas.

The fate of the more than 400 remaining jobs in Indianapolis was not immediately clear. Nor was it clear whether the 700 jobs at the Huntington plan would be saved.

2-10-2016
Carrier to relocate 1,400 Indianapolis jobs to Mexico


Chris Nelson, president of HVAC Systems and Services North American, issued the following statement:

    “This move is intended to address the challenges we continue to face in a rapidly changing HVAC industry, with the continued migration of the HVAC industry to Mexico, including our suppliers and competitors, and ongoing cost and pricing pressures driven, in part, by new regulatory requirements.

    “Relocating our operations to a region where we have existing infrastructure and a strong supplier base will allow us to operate more cost effectively so that we can continue to produce high-quality HVAC products that are competitively positioned while continuing to meet customer needs.

    “This decision is difficult and we recognize the impact on employees, their families and the community. We are committed to ensuring that our employees are treated respectfully and to working closely with their representatives throughout this transition.”

Mayor Joe Hogsett releases this statement on Carrier’s announcement:

    “Today’s surprise announcement was without warning and incredibly disappointing. While I am obviously concerned about the economic impact, my top priority is the well-being of the hardworking families affected by this decision.

    A job lost in any part of our community affects us all, and I believe these are the times we must come together as one city to lift up our neighbors. That is why this afternoon I will issue an Executive Order to create a task force that will convene local, state, and federal resources and direct every tool at our disposal toward supporting these workers in the days ahead.”

2-28-2016

Trump says he will tax Carrier 35% for every Air Conditioner they ship to the U.S.

3-1-2016

Trump: If I'm president, Carrier won't move to Mexico

Republican frontrunner Donald Trump says if he's elected president, Indianapolis will keep the 1,400 jobs being lost by Carrier's move.

The presidential candidate told supporters at a rally in Louisville Tuesday that the company's bosses won't move to Mexico if he's elected.

Trump says the other option Carrier will face is a 35 percent tax on products it plans to produce in Monterrey, Mexico.

Trump's statements come on the same day he won the majority of GOP Super Tuesday primaries.

[dmcowen674]

I live on the West side of Indy. This is going to be devastating to this city.

[RolloTheGreat]

I live on the West side of Indy. This is going to be devastating to this city.

Move.to.Madison.

[dmcowen674]

This is a start. 

Hopefully every HVAC Company in the U.S. will no longer uses Carrier products:

2-11-2016

http://wishtv.com/2016/02/11/company...d-off-workers/

Companies cut Carrier products from their services

A HVAC company owner is turning his back on one of his biggest suppliers after he said the supplier turned its back on its employees.

“We’re not helping buy a CEO their 5th vacation home, we’re helping feed our family,” said R.D. Poffenbarger as he installed a thermostat.

He owns 911 Heating and Cooling in Anderson and is loyal to his suppliers.

“I’ve used Carrier products in my company the whole time,” he said spanning 16 years in business. But he said that won’t happen anymore, not after what Carrier announced Wednesday.

“They were always promoting that they were made in the U.S. and it just shocked me that they would (relocate to Mexico),” he said.

The out-of-the-country move is part of the reason why Poffenbarger says he’ll no longer use Carrier products. “You notice different workmanship…failures,” he said. “It just gets to be a cheaper product.”

Poffenbarger plans to use only suppliers like Goodman or Ameristar going forward.

Earlier in the day, Poffenbarger said he was at a HVAC supply store. He said while there, other heating and air company owners told him they agreed with his decision. He said the supply store was also contemplating not carrying Carrier products.

[SteelCrysis]

Sadly, boycotts in general just don't work, as there's always enough business elsewhere to compensate. In general, the only way to stop offshoring will be to make it illegal and make it illegal to transfer any company outside of the US.

[RolloTheGreat]

Sadly, boycotts in general just don't work, as there's always enough business elsewhere to compensate. In general, the only way to stop offshoring will be to make it illegal and make it illegal to transfer any company outside of the US.

So if the company can't compete without all American labor, they go under and everyone loses their job?

[SteelCrysis]

No, I'm saying that Carrier will be able to find enough new customers to compensate, and thus the boycott will fail, as they usually do.

[dmcowen674]

Hopefully it won't fail.

It's actually 2,100 jobs lost.

Hopefully the line gets drawn here.

This has made front page news on the newspapers in New York.

It also came out that they are closing one other facility in Indiana with 700 jobs lost there.

It was also revealed that they got $530,000 in taxpayer money for training employees.


'F--k you!' Indiana plant workers react to news that their 1,400 jobs are being sent to Mexico — WARNING: STRONG LANGUAGE

Carrier Heating and Cooling announced that it was transferring operations and 1,400 positions to Monterrey, earning a chorus of jeers and shouts during an announcement to workers soon to be unemployed.

“F--k you!” one man is heard yelling in a YouTube video shot while employees were told, “the best way to stay competitive and protect the business long term is to move production from our facility.”

"How long does it take for people to start tearing s--t up?" another voice is heard saying.

United Technologies Corp, which owns Carrier, will also move another plant run by subsidiary United Technologies Electronic Controls in Huntington, Indiana, will also move.

The departure will cost another 700 jobs.

Indiana state officials had given nearly $530,000 of taxpayer money in training grants to United Technologies through the Indiana Economic Development Corp., but told the Indianapolis Business Journal that they are now looking for ways to get that money back.

[RolloTheGreat]

Hopefully it won't fail.

It's actually 2,100 jobs lost.

Hopefully the line gets drawn here.

This has made front page news on the newspapers in New York.

It also came out that they are closing one other facility in Indiana with 700 jobs lost there.

It was also revealed that they got $530,000 in taxpayer money for training employees.


'F--k you!' Indiana plant workers react to news that their 1,400 jobs are being sent to Mexico — WARNING: STRONG LANGUAGE

Carrier Heating and Cooling announced that it was transferring operations and 1,400 positions to Monterrey, earning a chorus of jeers and shouts during an announcement to workers soon to be unemployed.

“F--k you!” one man is heard yelling in a YouTube video shot while employees were told, “the best way to stay competitive and protect the business long term is to move production from our facility.”

"How long does it take for people to start tearing s--t up?" another voice is heard saying.

United Technologies Corp, which owns Carrier, will also move another plant run by subsidiary United Technologies Electronic Controls in Huntington, Indiana, will also move.

The departure will cost another 700 jobs.

Indiana state officials had given nearly $530,000 of taxpayer money in training grants to United Technologies through the Indiana Economic Development Corp., but told the Indianapolis Business Journal that they are now looking for ways to get that money back.

This is exactly what I'm talking about being the source of all our nations problems.

As jobs like this are exported, the quality of life here declines for EVERYONE.

It's why I buy a truck built in Indiana every 3 years even though I don't need one, and why I buy American most of the time.

[RolloTheGreat]

then why do you advocate that rich bastards have the right to relocate the jobs?!

Mainly because they do have the right, it's their money and you can't legislate how they spend it or you live in a dictatorship.

Government needs to work with business to prevent stuff like this happening, not outlaw it.

[SteelCrysis]

Mainly because they do have the right, it's their money and you can't legislate how they spend it or you live in a dictatorship.

Government needs to work with business to prevent stuff like this happening, not outlaw it.

Every government in existence that bans the use of narcotics or hiring hitmen is a dictatorship, by this standard.

[RolloTheGreat]

Mainly because they do have the right, it's their money and you can't legislate how they spend it or you live in a dictatorship.

Government needs to work with business to prevent stuff like this happening, not outlaw it.

Every government in existence that bans the use of narcotics or hiring hitmen is a dictatorship, by this standard.

You equate using narcotics and hiring hitmen with freedom to choose who you employ and where you employ them?

Based on what "logic"??

Where on the planet is it illegal to own things in other countries, whether they are factories or homes?

[SteelCrysis]

Because you said it's the business people's money and we can't legislate how they spend it. That's my logic.

[RolloTheGreat]

Because you said it's the business people's money and we can't legislate how they spend it. That's my logic.

I still fail to see how government protection of the people from murder and addiction constitutes a dictatorship. (unless your definition of dictatorship is "absence of total freedom")

Control of private assets to the extent suggested here would be more in line with a dictatorship.

Pretty much all governments outside of Quentin Tarantino movies outlaw heroin and murder.

[RolloTheGreat]

Money earned in one country should generally stay in that country.  The money was printed in that country to benefit its citizens, not the citizens of some other country.  The money was meant to be used to support the economy of the country issuing it, not to support the economy of some other country.

Work performed by a countries workers is given a dollar value and this money then circulates throughout a countries economy being traded for goods and services in exchange for work performed.

Allowing rich people to take money from one country and use it to compensate people in other countries for work performed in other countries upsets the economy and leads to the erosion of society that we see today.

It also allows nations to build wealth through companies selling to other nations (e.g. McDonalds putting up restaurants everywhere, but don't let that get in your way.

[dmcowen674]

2-13-2016

http://wishtv.com/2016/02/13/trump-vows-...-my-watch/

Trump vows Carrier situation ‘will not happen under my watch’

[BenSkywalker]

Really I think the biggest problem

The biggest problem, in all seriousness, is fucking morons like you. 

You idiots cry and whine about the rich.

(Corporations move jobs)

You idiots take all the money you can from the rich.

(Corporations move jobs)

You idiots invent new punitive measures against the rich

(Corporations move jobs)

If you fucking half wits would pull your head out of your shockingly ignorant asses and start to focus on the actual fucking problem instead of whining that someone has a nicer car then you maybe some progress could be made.

[RolloTheGreat]

Someone having a nicer car than me isn't the issue.  They spend money they earned to get that car.  They didn't lock it up in a bank account or in the stock market where it cannot circulate through the economy.

That by the way is the flaw in Rollo's McDonalds argument.  Sure, McDonalds makes lots of profit worldwide.  However the societies McDonalds operate in see almost no benefit from that profit.  McDonalds locks the vast majority of it away and severely underpays and overworks its employees.

LOL



Yeah they're exploited all right.

Ever worked fast food GStan? The reasons they don't get paid much are a. the work is so simple a monkey could do it (but monkeys are too proud) b. you don't have to work very hard.

I've worked at Burger King, Pizza Hut, Country Kitchen, etc and know the drill with fast food. You make low wages to slap together easy meals and clean the restaurant. It was never meant to be a living wage career. If it was, the food would cost more and people that did work the monkeys could not do would rightfully demand higher wages.

Nations build wealth by exporting to other nations and operating in other nations.

Your ideas are simplistic and unfeasible.

[RolloTheGreat]

My ideas are the very reason money (and society itself) arose in the first place.  Like everything else they touch though, rich people perverted the meaning of money to society.

In any case the money that McDonalds contributes to society is an absolute pittance compared to the money they strip out of society (and that is before you consider what they cost society in terms of health care costs due to the consumption of the crap they laughingly refer to as food).

Tunnel vision, as usual.

1. McDonalds provides jobs for people who either need a survival level job, or just some spare cash until they can transition to more traditional employment. Or if that is truly your desire, two full timers at McDonalds making $10-$11/hour can eek out a simple standard of life on $40k a year for two people. McDonalds provides jobs and subsistence.

2. McDonalds provides middle class and better jobs for management and corporate staff.

3. McDonalds provides people a vehicle to become successful business owners if they can save up the franchise fee and start up cost.

4. McDonalds provides investors earnings on their investments as a publicly traded company.

5. Most people couldn't afford "good" restaurant food as often as they eat McDonalds. Personally I wish I could get some pheasant or quail and steamed vegetables at fast food, but the reality is not enough people would buy it to support the restaurants. McDonalds provides simple, cheap fare for the people who can't afford pheasants. (i.e. most people)

Like Ben said, your whole life is looking at people who you perceive as having more money and hissing "Those rich guys are screwing me! I'd do it better!". He's also right the rich are WAY smarter with money than you are. You short sighted schemes would turn first world nations into banana republics.

[BoFox]

2. McDonalds provides middle class and better jobs for management and corporate staff.

3. McDonalds provides people a vehicle to become successful business owners if they can save up the franchise fee and start up cost.

4. McDonalds provides investors earnings on their investments as a publicly traded company.

2.  Most managers don't really quality for middle class.  Even the general manager earns about 50% higher wages than what the guy cleaning the bathroom makes, and has to work 60-80 hours a week with all that overtime, barely qualifying for middle class.  That is, a lower middle-class who has to do 10-12 hours a day 6-7 days a week.

3.  Successful, perhaps by the time they're all exhausted and worn-out from over-working.  These people usually age faster than most other workers - by the time they retire, they're burnt out and in very bad shape, stricken with some health issues.  Retirement is a pita for them. 

Just kidding.

[RolloTheGreat]

2.  Most managers don't really quality for middle class.  Even the general manager earns about 50% higher wages than what the guy cleaning the bathroom makes, and has to work 60-80 hours a week with all that overtime, barely qualifying for middle class.  That is, a lower middle-class who has to do 10-12 hours a day 6-7 days a week.

3.  Successful, perhaps by the time they're all exhausted and worn-out from over-working.  These people usually age faster than most other workers - by the time they retire, they're burnt out and in very bad shape, stricken with some health issues.  Retirement is a pita for them. 

Just kidding.

It might not be what you or I aspire to, but $46K is a middle class wage by definition in the USA:

https://www.glassdoor.com/Salary/McDonal...O11,26.htm

(I saw that "the guy cleaning the bathroom makes $22K, math tells me $46K is over double 22K, not 50% more)

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-04-04...35000-year

Overall, an astounding 59 percent of all American workers bring home less than $35,000 a year in wages.

What I said was accurate, that $46K is close to the $52K median household income in America. You don't understand what most people live on because a. it's been a long time since you made it b. you live in a region of the country where wages are higher. (and cost of living is higher)

Median household income Bloomington, IL: $59K

http://www.bestplaces.net/economy/city/i...loomington

I bet if you search the town you live in on that site the median income is more like $100K.

[dmcowen674]

$46K is a middle class wage by definition in the USA
====================================
I fall short by $6,000

But I already knew I was not middle class since have been living check to check forever.

[RolloTheGreat]

$46K is a middle class wage by definition in the USA
====================================
I fall short by $6,000

But I already knew I was not middle class since have been living check to check forever.

$40K is a good salary, you just need to:

A. Make it in a place where rent is cheaper
B. Convince your wife to make $20K if you must stay where rent is costly. (pretty much every job pays $10/hour+ for full time)

You really just need to stop living in big cities where decent places to live cost a lot.

If you guys moved to any smaller towns and both worked you could live like kings on $60-$70K.Cheaper housing, restaurants mean more cash left over.

[dmcowen674]

We lived in the middle of no where in Oklahoma.
Jobs only paid minimum wage which was not enough to pay rent and utilities and that was with both of us working.
That is when we moved to New Jersey.
She was working the front desk of a Resort Hotel.
Now that she has had 3 bladder surgeries she can no longer work.

[BoFox]

See, Rollo, lots of poor people have worked real hard for most of their lives, and they still get their own asses handed over to them on a platter.  No universal HMO, more taxes for the poor, etc..   what gives?!?  Let's make it harder for them, huh?

Higher sales tax actually hurt the poor way more than the rich.  The things that they have to pay for, like food, clothing, etc..  are barely affordable in the first place, and that is the cheapest quality food, clothing, etc. that they can find.  The rich don't have to worry about that at all.  

It's strange how Obama wanted Obamacare (which is actually rather fishy-smelling but that's for another discussion), but then wants a federal tax of $10 per barrel of gasoline.  This just hurts the poor as they can barely afford the gas to drive to work.

[dmcowen674]

2-28-2016

Trump says he will tax Carrier 35% for every Air Conditioner they ship to the U.S.

[SickBeast]

2-28-2016

Trump says he will tax Carrier 35% for every Air Conditioner they ship to the U.S.

He also wants to tax everything coming in from China 50% and he wants to rip up NAFTA. He is going to cripple the global economy. The guy is crazy. You guys will all be living in straw huts soon because you won't be able to import anything.

[RolloTheGreat]

2-28-2016

Trump says he will tax Carrier 35% for every Air Conditioner they ship to the U.S.

This is one of the ways government can help American labor. Routing healthcare benefits through industry would be another. Tax breaks to corps is a third as incentive to leave jobs here.

[dmcowen674]

2-28-2016

Trump says he will tax Carrier 35% for every Air Conditioner they ship to the U.S.

He also wants to tax everything coming in from China 50% and he wants to rip up NAFTA.  He is going to cripple the global economy.  The guy is crazy.  You guys will all be living in straw huts soon because you won't be able to import anything.

This isn't Japan. This Country has the natural resources to not have to import anything.

We'll be living in straw huts because of NAFTA and all the free trade bullshit.

[RolloTheGreat]

2-28-2016

Trump says he will tax Carrier 35% for every Air Conditioner they ship to the U.S.

He also wants to tax everything coming in from China 50% and he wants to rip up NAFTA.  He is going to cripple the global economy.  The guy is crazy.  You guys will all be living in straw huts soon because you won't be able to import anything.

This isn't Japan. This Country has the natural resources to not have to import anything.

We'll be living in straw huts because of NAFTA and all the free trade bullshit.

Yep.

We used to make most of what we consumed here and are uniquely positioned to do so.

I might vote Trump after all.

[RolloTheGreat]

See, Rollo, lots of poor people have worked real hard for most of their lives, and they still get their own asses handed over to them on a platter.  No universal HMO, more taxes for the poor, etc..   what gives?!?  Let's make it harder for them, huh?

Higher sales tax actually hurt the poor way more than the rich.  The things that they have to pay for, like food, clothing, etc..  are barely affordable in the first place, and that is the cheapest quality food, clothing, etc. that they can find.  The rich don't have to worry about that at all.  

It's strange how Obama wanted Obamacare (which is actually rather fishy-smelling but that's for another discussion), but then wants a federal tax of $10 per barrel of gasoline.  This just hurts the poor as they can barely afford the gas to drive to work.

My guess is Dave's wife is eligible for disability income and Medicaid, she's one of the people the safety nets are in place for. No one objects to safety nets for the very old, very young, and disabled.

What we object to is guys like Apoppin that could work at normal jobs to get health insurance but choose to make the rest of society fund their self employment benefit package.

Obamacare is no different than me taking a job for half what I make now and expecting society to make up the difference. People need money to live on- why shouldn't I be able to pick what I do and make the same money!??

[BenSkywalker]

You guys will all be living in straw huts soon because you won't be able to import anything.

What do you think we need to import? That's a serious question. Anything that would be too catastrophic(some precious metals coming out of other nations that have halted mining in the US that would have years lead time to get producing at proper levels) we could still pay the tax on.

It is rather telling that we are discussing a *MASSIVE* tax increase to stop corporations from moving so many jobs overseas, and you seem to be opposed while Rollo isn't.

Use tariff money to publicly fund accelerated buildup of domesticated production.

One of the reasons the US tends to be so arrogant is we do not need any other country. From arctic to tropical, desert mountains to everglades, we have it covered.

He is going to cripple the global economy.

Everyone else can still play the way they have been, we'll just let you all do it without us. That's in the $45 Billion a month we can start putting back into our own economy. People love to point out the differences between the US and the other major economies, let us take our half a trillion trade deficit off the table, wipe out a huge chunk of the EU's quarter trillion trade surplus and a big old bit out of China's three quarter of a trillion surplus and see how the various markets look.

Yes, that would be us taking our ball and going home. We have a really nice court and a big family to play with

[dmcowen674]

See, Rollo, lots of poor people have worked real hard for most of their lives, and they still get their own asses handed over to them on a platter.  No universal HMO, more taxes for the poor, etc..   what gives?!?  Let's make it harder for them, huh?

Higher sales tax actually hurt the poor way more than the rich.  The things that they have to pay for, like food, clothing, etc..  are barely affordable in the first place, and that is the cheapest quality food, clothing, etc. that they can find.  The rich don't have to worry about that at all.  

It's strange how Obama wanted Obamacare (which is actually rather fishy-smelling but that's for another discussion), but then wants a federal tax of $10 per barrel of gasoline.  This just hurts the poor as they can barely afford the gas to drive to work.

My guess is Dave's wife is eligible for disability income and Medicaid, she's one of the people the safety nets are in place for. No one objects to safety nets for the very old, very young, and disabled.

What we object to is guys like Apoppin that could work at normal jobs to get health insurance but choose to make the rest of society fund their self employment benefit package.

Obamacare is no different than me taking a job for half what I make now and expecting society to make up the difference. People need money to live on- why shouldn't I be able to pick what I do and make the same money!??

You would think that but that is not the case.

She can't stand very long or walk a long distance is the least of the issues related to her bladder prolapse.

Not only was she rejected for disability but the State fined our Doctor $10,000 for filing a false report.

The State Director went against our Doctor saying it was impossible for a bladder to fall out like what happened to debi.


We were also rejected for a Disabled sticker for the car.

[RolloTheGreat]

You guys will all be living in straw huts soon because you won't be able to import anything.

What do you think we need to import? That's a serious question. Anything that would be too catastrophic(some precious metals coming out of other nations that have halted mining in the US that would have years lead time to get producing at proper levels) we could still pay the tax on.

It is rather telling that we are discussing a *MASSIVE* tax increase to stop corporations from moving so many jobs overseas, and you seem to be opposed while Rollo isn't.

Use tariff money to publicly fund accelerated buildup of domesticated production.

One of the reasons the US tends to be so arrogant is we do not need any other country. From arctic to tropical, desert mountains to everglades, we have it covered.

He is going to cripple the global economy.

Everyone else can still play the way they have been, we'll just let you all do it without us. That's in the $45 Billion a month we can start putting back into our own economy. People love to point out the differences between the US and the other major economies, let us take our half a trillion trade deficit off the table, wipe out a huge chunk of the EU's quarter trillion trade surplus and a big old bit out of China's three quarter of a trillion surplus and see how the various markets look.

Yes, that would be us taking our ball and going home. We have a really nice court and a big family to play with

The rest of the world would likely declare war on us because we stopped floating their economies with our cash.

I agree with Trump (apparently). The experiment of "people will have more money because things will be cheaper!" failed most of America and only paid off for guys like you and me. (and it only paid off for me because my wife and I put 80 hours/week of skilled labor into the system, we'd be decidedly middle class and living a whole lot different if one of us retired)

None of us win if the biggest group of Americans isn't working at living wage jobs, we're basically reverting to feudal times.

[SickBeast]

If you want to see the result of an isolationist economy, just have a look at North Korea or Cuba to see what happens when a country chooses to (or is forced to) do everything on their own with no trading partners. Free trade agreements are good for the economy, that is a fact. Here in Canada we're not exactly thrilled about NAFTA either. NAFTA stipulates that we have to provide the USA with our oil even before we use it for our own needs. Does that sound fair to you? Now, the USA seems to have recently discovered its own oil source with fracking and stuff, so I can see you guys balking at NAFTA now. But really IMO our two countries need to cooperate and continue trading for our mutual benefit. Otherwise we are just going to ship all our goods to Europe and Asia.

I can totally understand your guys frustration with the jobs going overseas. I just don't think tariffs are the answer. There has to be a better solution. This is going to require some creative thinking because it is a big problem. We are having similar issues here in Canada. It's cheaper to make things in Mexico and other countries so that's where all the jobs are going. Perhaps instead of tariffs the government can stipulate that in order for a company to sell its products in the USA, a certain percentage of the workforce has to work in the US. Something like that. Not a tariff. That's just going to create chaos.

[SickBeast]

You guys will all be living in straw huts soon because you won't be able to import anything.

What do you think we need to import? That's a serious question. Anything that would be too catastrophic(some precious metals coming out of other nations that have halted mining in the US that would have years lead time to get producing at proper levels) we could still pay the tax on.

It is rather telling that we are discussing a *MASSIVE* tax increase to stop corporations from moving so many jobs overseas, and you seem to be opposed while Rollo isn't.

Use tariff money to publicly fund accelerated buildup of domesticated production.

One of the reasons the US tends to be so arrogant is we do not need any other country. From arctic to tropical, desert mountains to everglades, we have it covered.

He is going to cripple the global economy.

Everyone else can still play the way they have been, we'll just let you all do it without us. That's in the $45 Billion a month we can start putting back into our own economy. People love to point out the differences between the US and the other major economies, let us take our half a trillion trade deficit off the table, wipe out a huge chunk of the EU's quarter trillion trade surplus and a big old bit out of China's three quarter of a trillion surplus and see how the various markets look.

Yes, that would be us taking our ball and going home. We have a really nice court and a big family to play with

Good luck with that, please let me know how that goes. When your straw hut starts to disintegrate please give me a call so I can try to send you some of my lumber.

[SickBeast]

Here is some more information for you guys:

Some estimate that since 1992, nearly 20 million new jobs have been created in the U.S., in part due to the 1994 NAFTA agreement. Total trade between the NAFTA partners -- the U.S., Canada and Mexico -- rose from $293 billion in 1993 to more than $475 billion in 1997, and has increased since. That spells sales and profits for U.S. companies and high paying jobs for American workers.

http://www.ttgconsultants.com/articles/freetrade.html

[BenSkywalker]

If you want to see the result of an isolationist economy, just have a look at North Korea or Cuba to see what happens when a country chooses to (or is forced to) do everything on their own with no trading partners.

Vermont's GDP is ~35% larger then North Korea's, they are the 50th state by GDP. Cuba does much better at $80Bln GDP- they would rank 38th. We have plenty of trade partners in the US, ourselves. For the record, those two combined are roughly 10% of California's GDP.

Free trade agreements are good for the economy, that is a fact.

Globally yes, want to have a lengthy conversation about Detroit? Locally free trade can be absolutely catastrophic.

But really IMO our two countries need to cooperate and continue trading for our mutual benefit.

To be quite honest Sick, I don't think anyone has an issue maintaining trade relations with Canada, Mexico is a *very* different story. That said, if it is all or nothing....

When your straw hut starts to disintegrate please give me a call so I can try to send you some of my lumber.

We already produce quite a bit more lumber than you and to be honest, those are some good paying jobs the US could use more of. You will run out of lumberjacks *WAY* before we run out of trees.

http://www.cfr.org/trade/naftas-economic-impact/p15790

Much of this growth has been due to increased trade between the United States and Mexico, where the trade balance—the difference between exports and imports—swung from a $1.7 billion U.S. surplus in 1993 to a $61.4 billion deficit in 2012.

The quote on new job creation is, to be as kind as possible, highly suspect. If a new facility is created to build dash board assemblies that are shipped to Mexico they count that as new jobs- even though the entire car used to be built here.

[SickBeast]

If Trump wins it will be interesting, I will say that much. But for me I get to sit back and eat popcorn. I can only imagine how that's going to feel as an American citizen. It's going to get really ugly down there if he wins.

[RolloTheGreat]

Hmmmm those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it.

http://americastradepolicy.com/did-the-s...tTosi_SkY0

In early May 1930 1,028 leading American economists presented President Hoover, Senator Smoot and Congressman Hawley with a letter urging Hoover to veto the bill if it passed Congress. (The organizer of the letter was Dr. Claire Wilcox, my economics professor in college.) The economists argued that the tariff increases would raise the cost of living, limit our exports as other countries retaliated, injure U.S. investors since the high tariffs would make it harder for foreign debtors to repay their loans, and damage our foreign relations. Unfortunately, this is what happened.

Back to not voting.