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Navi Dicussion Thread
This is directly from AMD:
Quote:AMD's next major milestone is the introduction of our upcoming 7nm product portfolio, including the initial products with our second generation "Zen 2" CPU core and our new "Navi" GPU architecture. We have already taped out multiple 7nm products at TSMC, including our first 7nm GPU planned to launch later this year and our first 7nm server CPU that we plan to launch in 2019. Our work with TSMC on their 7nm node has gone very well and we have seen excellent results from early silicon. To streamline our development and align our investments closely with each of our foundry partner's investments, today we are announcing we intend to focus the breadth of our 7nm product portfolio on TSMC's industry-leading 7nm process. We also continue to have a broad partnership with GLOBALFOUNDRIES spanning multiple process nodes and technologies. We will leverage the additional investments GLOBALFOUNDRIES is making in their robust 14nm and 12nm technologies at their New York fab to support the ongoing ramp of our AMD Ryzen, AMD Radeon and AMD EPYC processors. We do not expect any changes to our product roadmaps as a result of these changes.
Quote:Arcturus is the fourth brightest star in the night sky, and could be the a new GPU architecture by AMD succeeding "Navi," according to a Phoronix report. The codename of Navi-successor has long eluded AMD's roadmap slides. The name "Arcturis" surfaced on Phoronix community forums, from a post by an AMD Linux liaison who is a member there. The codename is also supported by the fact that AMD is naming its GPU architectures after the brightest stars in the sky (albeit in a descending order of their brightness). Polaris is the brightest, followed by Vega, Navi, and Arcturus.
Quote:So these comments form papermaster seemingly confirm two things: first, that AMD plans to "round out" its lineup using the 7 nm process technology, which means increasing offerings at different price points. The use of the word "refresh" almost takes the breath away, since refreshes are usually based on the same previous architectures. However, AMD does have plans for a new mid-range chip to finally succeed Polaris in Navi, which should become the next AMD launch in the 7 nm process for graphics technologies.

However, what might put some of the enthusiasm down on AMD's plans is Papermaster saying that AMD's starting on the "high-end". As it stands, that seemingly means that yes, AMD will be releasing Navi-based graphics, but that such releases will offer lower performance than that of Radeon VII. Of course, there's still a chance that AMD can also refresh their high-end or explore above-Radeon VII performance - one of Navi's marketing materials does mention scalability - but... That just seems like hopeful speculation after Papermaster's words. It seems that any market above NVIDIA's RTX 2080 will be available solely for NVIDIA, as has become the norm in recent years.
Quote:AMD’s rumor mill, it definitely be a turning. According to Red Gaming Tech and OC3D AMD’s delayed Navi architecture could be launching as early as July this year. Indeed with Lisa Su announcing that: “you will hear more about Navi in 2019,” multiple sites are now reporting on a new source who’s suggesting that the company is very happy with the outcome of Navi so far, and expecting an announcement at E3 this year, followed by a hard launch one month later.
The big mystery now is going to be how exactly Navi will fit into the lineup. We know Arcturus, Navi’s successor should be launching some time in 2020 as well, as a true high-end successor. Yet Navi itself is being labelled as AMD’s prodigal son. Is it purely because of it circumventing GCN’s limitations? Who knows. If I were a betting man, and I’m afraid to say I am, I’d put my money on Navi being a true new architecture 7nm test, with the following Arcturus cards being enterprise oriented, followed by a big Navi, high-end flagship in 2020 with a 7nm+ refresh.
Quote:The latest rumor suggests that AMD will finally launch Navi at the E3 video game conference in Los Angeles, California this June. The rumor has some logic behind it as the Sony PlayStation 5 and Microsoft Xbox Scarlett have expected release dates of 2020.
Quote:The code makes four references, Navi 16, Navi 12, Navi 10, and Navi 9. We're not quite sure if these are brand names or ASIC codes pointing to the number of next-generation compute units enabled on the silicon. If they are the latter, and assuming AMD hasn't changed the number of stream processors per NGCU, we're looking at the possibility of these chips being mid-range performance successors to the "Polaris" family, and it's likely they'll find place in Apple's upcoming generation of iMac, and possibly even MacBooks.
Quote:AMD "Navi" is the company's next-generation graphics architecture succeeding "Vega" and will leverage the 7 nm silicon fabrication process. It was originally slated to launch mid-2019, with probable unveiling on the sidelines of Computex (early-June). Cowcotland reports that AMD has delayed its plans to launch "Navi" all the way to October (Q4-2019). The delay probably has something to do with AMD's 7 nm foundry allocation for the year.
Quote:An AMD patent filing from 2017 that was recently made public shows AMD exploring the implementation of variable rate shading (VRS) technology in its next-generation GPUs. Although the patent doesn’t specify which future architecture will get it, there’s a good chance AMD will try to have the technology built into its upcoming Navi GPUs, considering Nvidia has already integrated VRS into its latest Turing architecture.
VRS resolves certain sections of a frame in full detail (like the center of the screen, on which your eyes tend to focus) and reduces the detail on other parts of the frame to lower the rendering load. In other words, the shading in the game will happen at a variable rate (thus the “variable rate shading” name).
AMD hasn’t stated that this technology will be made available in the company’s upcoming Navi GPUs, which doesn't have an official release date still. However, considering that Nvidia has already implemented VRS in Turing, it’s possible AMD may implement it soon, too, as chances are the two companies started working on VRS roughly at the same time.

VRS may be most useful to VR-enabled games, as well as consoles that support VR gaming. The Navi architecture is rumored to be used in the next-generation PlayStation, whose games could benefit from the VRS support if Sony intends to once again pair its new console with a next-generation VR headset.
Quote:There's also this slide above. It's not nearly as interesting as the first slide, but it does seem to confirm another piece of news we already knew: Navi is on the way this year. We really don't know much about AMD's next graphics processors, but scuttlebutt says that AMD could launch as many as three separate cards, possibly as soon as E3 2019 this summer.

This slide also notes that AMD intends to launch a "next-gen" graphics part next year. Prior rumors had stated that AMD planned to launch low-end Navi cards this year, with a more powerful variation on the same theme coming in 2020. Given this slide, we're now more inclined to believe that AMD is going to launch Navi as a mid-range part this year, and then follow up with high-end cards based on "Arcturus" next year. That's not too far from what the company attempted with Polaris and Vega, really. Let's hope Navi and Arcturus can revive competition in the graphics market.
Navi possibly coming in Q3:
Quote:PC enthusiasts are in for a second major announcement, this time from RTG, with a technical reveal or unveiling of Radeon "Navi," the company's first GPU designed from the ground up for the 7 nm silicon fabrication process. It remains to be seen which market-segment AMD targets with the first "Navi" products, and the question on everyone's minds, whether AMD added DXR acceleration, could be answered.
This is a duplicate of a post I made in another topic, but it's just as applicable here.
Quote:Our buddies over at TechPowerUp took things a step further this morning, bombastically stating that AMD will launch or unveil a new generation of both Ryzen and Radeon processors at the show, with products coming in June. The site doesn't list its sources, but such a statement seems at least plausible given what we've heard in the past. TechPowerUp goes on to specifically state that the site expects AMD to launch or unveil "at least four" new product lines, and suggests EPYC and Instinct as the third and fourth possible reveals—a claim that sounds more dubious to us.
Preliminary support for Navi added to HWiNFO:
Quote:None of this is in conflict with the earlier information leak, but the next bit of information suggests that Navi will target Vega 56 / GTX 1080 performance as opposed to the GTX 1080 / RTX 2070 — and that is new. It’s also not great news if you’re hoping AMD will deliver a devastating blow to Nvidia’s RTX family.
If the earlier leak is true, of course, Navi would be truly gunning for the stars. A $250 GPU competing against a $500 GPU would punch gaping holes in Nvidia’s price brackets and product banding.

The biggest reason to think AMD would take a step like this is the company’s own weak position in the GPU market. AMD may own most of the console space, but it’s been all-but driven out of the high-end desktop and laptop markets. Coming out of the gate swinging could help it win back mind share.

The biggest reason to think they won’t? Let’s be honest. In the nearly six years since Hawaii launched, AMD’s competitive track record in graphics hasn’t been all that great. Hawaii was a great competitor but had volume issues that weren’t resolved until third-party cooler designs were available. Fury X had an issue with glue in its water cooler and couldn’t cleanly beat the GTX 980 Ti.
This is not to say that I’m preemptively judging Navi to be a failure. A $250 Vega 56 or GTX 1080-equivalent would be a huge performance jump over AMD’s current silicon in a fraction of the power. We don’t know what the ray tracing situation is yet, because we don’t know if the Navi silicon Sony is using in 2020 is identical to the Navi silicon AMD is bringing to market in 2019. AMD has, thus far, been very quiet about ray tracing except to say that they didn’t expect to introduce the feature until they could do it, top-to-bottom. This could imply that they are holding back the capability for a future GPU launch, possibly aligned to the PS5’s formal debut. There are also rumors of different flavors of Navi and different performance targets debuting up and down the stack, with some arriving in 2020. Alternately, these could belong to Arcturus, Navi’s supposed successor.

Gamers who have been calling for AMD to deliver a “Ryzen” level leap in gaming performance aren’t wrong; the company needs one. While the company still maintains performance against Nvidia in some price bands, it now draws nearly 2x the power to do it. That’s an ugly, unsustainable position to be in. Will Navi be the architecture to turn it all around? Hopefully, yes — but we’ve been waiting for a proper Hawaii follow-up for six years now. 4chan isn’t exactly a reliable data source. Then again, AMD’s past six years of GPU deliveries haven’t been all that strong, either.
Quote:Phoronix reported that the AMDGPU LLVM back-end had recently seen commits--code changes pushed to Git repositories used to manage many software projects--referencing Navi by its GFX1010 identifier. The code has yet to be posted for public review, but the outlet said AMD is likely working through its legal review of the code, which is the last step that needs to be completed before the company can publicly release its work.

The driver nearing its release lends credence to the idea that AMD will reveal Navi products in the near future. Rumors have named different events as host to the architecture's debut. There's Computex 2019 at the end of May, and a Navi reveal would make sense for AMD CEO Dr. Lisa Su's keynote at the conference. E3 2019 is in June, and with Navi being at the core of the PlayStation 5, it could make sense to announce it there.
AMD announces that Navi is coming in Q3:
Quote:Su also revealed that its first graphics card bearing the 7nm Navi architecture is geared for "below where the Radeon VII is positioned from a pricing standpoint." Given the lower price point, it's safe to assume that the initial 7nm Navi GPU will not be a flagship-class product, instead catering to the larger volume in the mid-range segment. As with all graphics architectures, we expect several different cards to emerge to satisfy different segments. Su also did not reveal if the card will support hardware-accelerated ray tracing but said the company would provide updates as the card comes closer to market.
Quote:Hot Hardware reports on rumors that the Radeon RX 3080 XT will match the performance of the GeForce RTX 2070, but undercut that GPU on price, coming in at $330. This, of course, would match the old price on the GTX 1070, and might be read as AMD “restoring” the GPU market to its original, pre-RTX configuration.
I’m skeptical of this claim for several reasons. First, it implies that AMD made a decision to build two different GPUs around a very narrow difference in core count. A 56 CU Vega 10/RX 3080 XT would have 3,584 GPU cores. A 60 CU Navi 20 (hypothetically branded as the RX 3090) would be 3,840 cores. That’s just a 7 percent difference in core count. Even if AMD goes for higher numbers of cores per CU (say, 128 instead of 64), the percentage gap between the absolute core count won’t change. While Nvidia used separate physical GPUs for the RTX 2070 and RTX 2080, the RTX 2080 has 1.27x more GPU cores than the RTX 2070. It seems unlikely that AMD would build two completely GPU designs solely on the basis of a 7 percent core difference.
If AMD undercuts Nvidia’s GPU pricing and does so with GPUs that lack ray tracing, it could be read as a tacit admission that Nvidia has established ray tracing as a feature that customers will pay more for. When AMD introduced Radeon VII, it deliberately didn’t price that GPU any lower than the RTX 2080, despite the fact that the Radeon VII completely lacks ray tracing. It is possible that the company will do something similar here, or choose to split the difference by pricing below the equivalent RTX GPU it intends to compete with, but not so low as to imply that Nvidia has properly priced in the value of ray tracing. Despite reports that the PS5 will feature ray tracing, we’ve heard nothing about Navi 10 supporting this feature. And AMD has said it wants to wait to introduce RT until it can introduce it at the top to bottom of the stack. That could mean AMD is keeping quiet about ray tracing support on 7nm — or that it doesn’t intend to introduce the feature in 2019.

But as it stands, this rumor is, at best, incomplete. It implies an odd pricing structure that would require AMD to hit much higher clocks on GCN than it has ever demonstrated a capability to hit. The core counts also imply that AMD is relying heavily on efficiency gains to hit its performance targets, but efficiency gains in GPUs have been hard to come by of late. Vega was not, generally speaking, a large efficiency gain over previous versions of GCN. Could Navi change that? Yes. But historically, we’ve seen GPUs gain the most performance either by clock boosts (which GCN hasn’t been very good at) or core count increases (which this rumor implies have not occurred).

If this rumor is accurate, AMD either substantially improved Navi GPU innate efficiency compared with previous iterations of GCN or will content itself with slashing price, but not necessarily driving performance higher, with top-end performance at $500 that would still be below RTX 2080 Ti (albeit at a vastly lower cost). The proposed price structure makes limited sense without massive clock increases to drive performance in the upper tier products. And finally, it’s not clear why AMD would build two completely different chips between Navi 10 and Navi 20 if the difference between the two is just a 7 percent core count increase. This is much less of a gap than exists between the various Nvidia GPUs in their respective brackets and custom designs.
AMD confirms Navi launching in Q3, will be 7nm:
Quote:On the next day, August 20th, another AMD keynote is simply titled "7 nm Navi GPU", and we expect it to follow in the footsteps of the Zen 2 conference. So, with AMD diving deep into both architectures come August... it's extremely likely the company will have launched both product lines by then.
Quote:A Sapphire product manager and PR director, speaking to the Chinese press spilled the beans on AMD's upcoming Radeon Navi graphics card lineup. It looks like with Navi, AMD is targeting the meat of the serious gamer market, at two specific price points, USD $399 with a "Pro" (cut-down) product, and $499 with an "XT" (fully-fledged) product. AMD has two NVIDIA products in its crosshairs, the GeForce RTX 2070, and the RTX 2060. In the interview, the Sapphire rep mentioned "stronger than 2070", when talking about performance numbers, which we assume is for the Navi XT variant - definitely promising. The $399 Navi "Pro" is probably being designed with a performance target somewhere between the RTX 2060 and RTX 2070, so you typically pay $50 more than you would for an RTX 2060, for noticeably higher performance.

Sapphire also confirmed that AMD's Navi does not have specialized ray-tracing hardware on the silicon, but such technology will debut with "next year's new architecture". They also suggested that AMD is unlikely to scale up Navi for the enthusiast segment, and that the Vega-based Radeon VII will continue to be the company's flagship product. On the topic of Radeon VII custom designs, Sapphire commented that "there is no plans for that". On the other hand, Sapphire is actively working on custom designs for the Navi architecture, and mentioned that "work on a "Toxic" version of Navi is complete, and it is watercooled". Many people have speculated that AMD will unveil Navi at its Computex keynote address on May 27. Sapphire confirmed that date, and also added that the launch will be on 7th of July, 2019.
So Navi is not what will be appearing in the nextgen Sony console then. Mark Cerny stated the nextgen console would be capable of RayTracing and we are not expecting it in 2019 either. The puzzle pieces are starting to fall into place.
Adam knew he should have bought a PC but Eve fell for the marketing hype.

Homeopathy is what happened when snake oil salesmen discovered that water is cheaper than snake oil.

The reason they call it the American Dream is because you have to be asleep to believe it. -- George Carlin
Quote:AMD's 7 nm "Navi 10" silicon may finally address two architectural shortcomings of its performance-segment GPUs, memory bandwidth, and render-backends (deficiency thereof). The GPU almost certainly features a 256-bit GDDR6 memory interface, bringing about a 50-75 percent increase in memory bandwidth over "Polaris 30." According to a sketch of the GPU's SIMD schematic put out by KOMACHI Ensaka, Navi's main number crunching machinery is spread across eight shader engines, each with five compute units (CUs).

Five CUs spread across eight shader engines, assuming each CU continues to pack 64 stream processors, works out to 2,560 stream processors on the silicon. This arrangement is in stark contrast to the "Hawaii" silicon from 2013, which crammed 10 CUs per shader engine across four shader engines to achieve the same 2,560 SP count on the Radeon R9 290. The "Fiji" silicon that followed "Hawaii" stuck to the 4-shader engine arrangement. Interestingly, both these chips featured four render-backends per shader engine, working out to 64 ROPs. AMD's decision to go with 8 shader engines raises hopes for the company doubling ROP counts over "Polaris," to 64, by packing two render backends per shader engine. AMD unveils Navi in its May 27 Computex keynote, followed by a possible early-July launch.
Quote:Nvidia has filed before the European Union Intellectual Property Office for ownership of the numbers 3080, 4080 and 5080 in an attempt to stop AMD from using the nomenclature for the red chipmaker's upcoming Navi gaming graphics cards.
By filing for the 3080, 4080 and 5080 trademarks in the graphics world, Nvidia hopes to discourage AMD from using the 30-series for Navi while also ensuring its future for at least another two generations of graphics cards. However, it's important to highlight that Nvidia's petition is currently under review, which means that the European Union Intellectual Property Office might not rule in favor of the chipmaker.
Quote:One of the biggest unknowns with Navi was how AMD was going to brand its graphics cards going forward. In the end, the chipmaker has ultimately decided to market its latest Navi offerings under the Radeon RX 5000-series moniker. As evidenced by the first two digits in gold colors, the Radeon RX 5000-series branding clearly draws its inspiration from the chipmaker’s recent 50th anniversary. Today AMD is also welcoming the arrival of its brand-new Radeon DNA (RDNA) gaming architecture to exist alongside the aging Graphics Core Next (GCN) architecture, which dates back seven years.
AMD President and CEO Dr. Lisa Su briefly showcased a Navi die during the keynote. Afterwards, Scott Herkelman, AMD's VP and GM of the Radeon Business Unit, took the stage to show an AMD Radeon RX 5700-series graphics card running beside Nvidia’s GeForce RTX 2070 in a direct comparison. The Radeon RX 5700-series unit managed to beat its rival by roughly 10 percent in the Strange Brigade benchmark.

The Radeon RX 5700-series graphics cards will be available in the month of July. There is no specific date at this time. However, AMD will reveal more information on Navi's price points, performance, product stack and technical features at the company’s "Next Horizon Gaming" livestream event at E3 on Monday, June 10, 2019 at 3 p.m. Pacific Time (22:00 UTC).
Navi prototype cards sighted:
Quote:The Wheel of Rumors turns, and assumptions come and pass, sometimes leaving unfulfilled hopes and dreams. In this case, the rumor mill, in what seems like a push from sweclockers, places Navi not as a "built from the ground-up" architecture, but rather as a highly customized iteration of GCN - iterated in the parts that it actually implements AMD's RDNA architecture, to be exact. And this makes sense from a number of reasons - it's certainly not anything to cry wolf about.
Speculation, certainly. But it seems we may have to wait until 2020 to see AMD's RDNA architecture in its full-glory implementation - and it'll come to PC first. Until then, nothing is stopping the hybrid Navi from being exactly what gaming ordered.
Quote:AMD’s CPU team looks to be firing on all cylinders, having just announced third-gen Ryzen processors that purportedly beat Intel’s line-up in performance and pricing comparisons. Meanwhile, the Radeon Technologies Group desperately needs a win of its own after years of playing catch-up. Radeon RX 5700 XT and Radeon RX 5700, both based on the much-anticipated Navi GPU, won’t be the cards to beat Nvidia’s highest-end GeForce RTX models. However, they may be able to knock off GeForce RTX 2070 and 2060, provided the company can price them properly and ship in sufficient quantity.

The Radeon RX 5700 XT wields 2,560 Stream processors and 160 texture units, divided up into 40 Compute Units. At a peak Boost clock of 1,905 MHz, those CUs facilitate up to 9.75 TFLOPS of compute performance. On paper, that’d put the card somewhere between Radeon RX 590 and Radeon RX Vega 56. However, AMD is specifying clock rates a little differently this time around, so Boost frequency may just be a vanity rating. The more realistic spec is 1,755 MHz. AMD says this Game clock represents a typical rate across more than 20 games it tested, so expect to see cards running somewhere between the Game and Boost frequencies. A 1,605 MHz base clock should be sustainable, even through a worst-case workload like FurMark.

AMD pairs the Radeon RX 5700 XT to 8GB of GDDR6 memory transferring data at 14 Gbps over a 256-bit bus. The resulting 448 GBps of theoretical bandwidth exceeds the 410 GBps available to Radeon RX Vega 56 through its 8GB of HBM2, but trails Radeon RX Vega 64’s 483 GBps.
The vanilla Radeon RX 5700 receives a relatively minor haircut, losing four CUs and 256 Stream processors. The remaining 2,304 ALUs and 144 texture units operate at a typical Game clock of 1,625 MHz and a 1,465 MHz base clock. AMD says the 5700 can hit a 1,725 MHz Boost clock, though, and that’s where it calculates this board’s 7.95 TFLOPS compute performance. All 64 of Navi’s ROPs are preserved in moving from Radeon RX 5700 XT to 5700, as is the chip’s 256-bit aggregate memory bus and 4MB last-level cache.
Navi does not incorporate hardware support for ray tracing in any form. Rather, David Wang, SVP of AMD’s Radeon Technologies Group, told us that existing GCN- and RDNA-based GPUs would support ray tracing via shaders in ProRender (for creators) and Radeon Rays (for developers). Then, down the road, a next-gen implementation of RDNA will evolve to accelerate “select lighting effects for real-time gaming.” AMD’s vision culminates in full scene ray tracing through the cloud. Could the company mean that it sees heavy lifting handled remotely as gamers stream content? We can’t imagine the PC audience would be overwhelmingly receptive to such a proposition. Regardless, AMD believes it’ll be a few years before real-time ray tracing takes off.
Quote:The most recent Linux display driver contains multiple lines of code that makes reference to AMD's Navi 10, Navi 12, Navi 14 and Navi 21 GPU variants. The Navi 10 silicon allegedly powers the Radeon RX 5700 XT and RX 5700, but the other Navi variants remain a mystery.
It's unclear at this point where the Navi 12, Navi 14 and Navi 21 will find their places in AMD's graphics cards. However, it's speculated that AMD could use the Navi 21 silicon in the Radeon RX 5800 graphics cards while saving the Navi 12 and Navi 14 dies for the Radeon RX 5600 and RX 5500 lineups, respectively. The Linux driver code specifically mentions the "P" and "M" suffixes for each Navi variant. The "P" suffix could stand for performance or power while the "M" suffix most likely refers to mobile.

The Navi 10, Navi 12 and Navi 21 silicons seemingly come in normal and Lite presentations. Although we're not completely sure, it's possible that the Lite variants could come with disabled Compute Units (CUs) and optimized for laptops. With a combination of the "P", "M" and Lite designations, we have as much as eight different Navi variants now. The code also reveals that only the Navi 10 Lite P silicon is on the B0 stepping while the remaining seven silicons are still on the A0 stepping.
Quote:Reviewers should have received their Radeon "Navi" review samples by now, so it's just natural that the number of leaks is increasing. WCCFTech has spotted one such leak in the 3DMark Time Spy database. The card which is just labeled "Generic VGA" achieved a final score of 8575 points, GPU score of 8719 and 7843 CPU points, which is almost identical to WCCFTech's own comparison benchmarks for the GeForce RTX 2070 Founders Edition (8901). The Vega 64 scored 7427, which leads WCCFTech to believe this must be Radeon RX 5700 XT. The result has since been removed from the 3DMark database, which also suggests it's for an unreleased product.
Quote:In this Imgur album, the reference design of Radeon RX 5700 cards along with the the retail boxes of various manufacturers like ASUS, AsRock, Yeston, Sapphire, Dataland, PowerColor and XFX, have been pictured. There is also a special box for AMD's 50th anniversary edition, which has golden accents to match the card. The regular, non anniversary edition box is designed with black and red theme to showcase regular AMD styling.
Quote:The Radeon RX 5700 XT now reportedly launches at just $399, while the Radeon RX 5700 is priced at $349. The RX 5700 XT is claimed to beat the original RTX 2070, while the $399 RTX 2060 Super is slower than the RTX 2070. On the other hand, the RX 5700, which was claimed to beat the $349 original RTX 2060, is now price-matched with it, unless NVIDIA comes up with price-cuts. Older reports suggested that with the advent of the RTX Super series, NVIDIA would retire the RTX 2060 and RTX 2070, after the market digests inventories left in the channel. AMD's latest move is sure to disturb that digestion.
Quote:AMD in a Facebook post late Friday confirmed that its Radeon RX 5700 series graphics cards will launch at reduced prices compared to what it announced at its E3-2019 product announcement. The Radeon RX 5700 XT will have a reduced MSRP of USD $399, which puts it on par with that of the GeForce RTX 2060 Super. The Radeon RX 5700 will cost $50 less, at $349, which puts its price on par with the original RTX 2060. The commemorative limited-edition RX 5700 XT AMD 50th Anniversary Edition doesn't budge from its $499 price. AMD didn't announce any changes to the two cards' launch bundle that include a 3-month Xbox Game Pass for PC.
Quote:Assuming AMD’s lower prices stick, and assuming Nvidia doesn’t clap back, the Navi-based Radeon RX 5700-series cards storm onto the scene with strength that many enthusiasts weren’t expecting. Matching the competition’s fourth- and fifth-fastest gaming cards doesn’t sound particularly impressive. But remember that the Vega generation never caught up to Nvidia’s Pascal-based line-up. And although the Turing GPUs were derided for their high prices, they did bump performance up at least one tier. To AMD’s credit, Navi delivers its speed-up with more grace than past launches. Both 5700s use less power than their predecessors. They generate appreciably less noise. And the Radeon RX 5700s serve up almost universally better performance than competing GeForce RTX 2060s at the same prices.
Not all is perfect in Navi-land, though. The flagship Radeon RX 5700 XT runs really hot. AMD did commit to bringing down the noise levels of its reference cooler, which means the fan doesn’t spin up past a certain point. Under duress, clock rates can be pushed below AMD’s rated base specification as junction temperatures exceed 100 degrees C. Our power consumption measurements show the card’s sensors intervening to keep thermals under control.

The Radeon RX 5700 demonstrated other strange behaviors. Mainly, it consistently dialed fan speeds back under even normal gaming workloads, causing temperatures to increase. AMD won’t go into detail on what’s happening there. If we were to guess, though, it looks like the fan responds quickly to a rapid increase in temperature, up to its maximum rotational speed. As the change in temperature slows, the fan slows to allow higher thermal readings and better acoustics. This theory falls apart somewhat when we see the same behavior under FurMark, where clock rates clearly suffer as the fan does something similar. It’d be far preferable for AMD’s thermal solution to ramp up gradually like Nvidia’s Founders Edition cards. We’ll continue experimenting with the fan curve to see if it’s reacting deliberately or if this is a bug that needs to be addressed. Fortunately, none of what we saw seems to adversely affect gaming on Radeon RX 5700 or Radeon RX 5700 XT.
Quote:While I don’t have a dB meter sensitive enough to measure GPU fans in a trustworthy way, I don’t need one to tell the difference between the RX 5700 and RX 5700 XT and pretty much every other AMD reference card manufactured since 2013.

The 5700 and 5700 XT are quiet. No, they aren’t inaudible — but they’re head and shoulders better than any high-end reference card AMD has launched in this approximate price bracket for a very long time. When we met with AMD at E3, we were told that the blowers were locked to a maximum sound level of 42 dBa. That sounds (no pun intended) about right to us.
Overall, though, I’d say Navi is easily the most impressive AMD GPU since at least the HD 7970. That might seem surprising, given that it isn’t in an overall leadership position and it doesn’t deliver a killer knockout blow to Nvidia’s product stack — though we’d be writing a very different conclusion to that point if Nvidia hadn’t just cut its own prices.

AMD has been playing second-fiddle to Nvidia in the GPU market for years, now. It needed a GPU that could compete on power and performance. It needed an architecture that could hit its target clock rates. Ever since Fury, it has felt as though AMD and GCN were hard up against an efficiency and scaling wall, clawing for every scrap of performance they could find. With Navi, it feels like the company can breathe again.

I’m going to have more to say about features, positioning, ray tracing, and the like. But what I’ll leave you with is this: More than it needed any particular feature, AMD needed to demonstrate that it could still build competitive, well-positioned cards. The RX 5700 and 5700 XT deliver on this promise. They’re faster than the RTX 2060 and RTX 2070 and the price cuts AMD introduced will keep them quite effective against the RTX 2060 / RTX 2060S. If the company can continue to improve its designs and boost overall efficiency, the rumored “big Navi” (expected in 2020) should be something to see.
Quote:Abolishing CrossFire support might seem sad at first, but I think it's actually a good thing. Why invest time into a feature that is barely used by 1% of your customers? That's probably also why game developers haven't really been investing into it for quite a while, and this move will free up developer resources at AMD that are better spent elsewhere; for example, on game-ready support at launch day, something AMD has been spot on with in recent times.

The improved power consumption of Navi helps with thermal management because all power consumed on a graphics card is emitted as heat the cooling solution has to get rid off somehow—more heat requires faster-spinning fans, which results in added fan noise. Unfortunately, noise levels of the RX 5700 XT reference design are not good. Essentially, they are identical to what we've seen on RX Vega and Radeon VII: 43 dBA. Part of the problem is that AMD insists on sticking with blower-type coolers, which simply aren't up to the task. NVIDIA switched their cooler design for the RTX Founders Editions, and it helps them a lot. The RTX 2070 Super, for example, consumes a similar amount of power, but runs a LOT quieter with only 33 dBA, and is significantly cooler at the same time with 76°C. Temperatures of our RX 5700 XT were quite high, reaching up to 92°C during gaming; the "Hot Spot" thermal sensor even went up to 110°C. While the card does not include the idle-fan-stop feature, AMD has tuned the idle fan speeds very well. The card is whisper quiet in idle, and you won't notice it over other components in your PC.

What is shocking are the absurd number of driver bugs I encountered during the review. I listed some of them on the overclocking page, and while they can all be fixed easily with driver updates, it still makes me wonder whether anybody test these cards. Some of the issues are so obvious, I can't imagine nobody noticed them. While overclocking is possible, it is somewhat complicated and requires you to turn off most of the card's clock and power management just to gain a few percentages of performance—5.6% in our case. Especially memory overclocking was disappointing. Both companies use the exact same GDDR6 memory chips from Samsung. On NVIDIA, we can easily reach above 2000 MHz on the memory; on the RX 5700 XT, a 1840 MHz memory OC was the end of the line, probably held back more by driver/BIOS bugs than the memory ICs. Guess we'll see if they can improve that with future driver updates.

Initially announced at $449, AMD just yesterday adjusted the price of the RX 5700 XT down to $399, which helps a lot, especially when comparing to NVIDIA's recent RTX Super release. At that price point, the RX 5700 XT is $100 cheaper than the RTX 2070 Super, offering 10% better price/performance. Compared to the RTX 2070, which is $480 now, the RX 5700 XT even has a 20% advantage. The RTX 2060 and RTX 2060 Super are breathing down AMD's neck though, with price/performance being essentially identical to that of the RX 5700 XT and much better power/heat/noise, fewer bugs, and Raytracing hardware acceleration. I have no doubt AMD will fix those bugs in the near future, but if noise matters for you, you'll have to wait for AMD's board partners to release custom Navi variants with better coolers in the coming months.
Quote:Just like the Radeon RX 5700 XT, the RX 5700 does not support CrossFire. While this might seem like a step backward at first, I think it's actually a good thing. Why invest time into a feature that is barely used by 1% of your customers? That's probably also why game developers haven't really been investing into it for quite a while, and this move will free up developer resources at AMD that are better spent elsewhere; for example, on game-ready support at launch day, something AMD has been spot on with in recent times.

AMD's new architecture brings in significant improvements over GCN we highlighted in the architecture section of this review. One important cornerstone is the long overdue reduction in power draw to make up lost ground against NVIDIA. We were shocked to see the Radeon RX 5700 beat the power efficiency of many NVIDIA Turing cards. AMD has achieved the unthinkable! Their secret sauce is undervolting—the chip runs at below 1 V all the time, whereas the XT card runs at up to 1.2 V. This move greatly reduces power consumption, but comes at the cost of maximum clock frequency, which explains why the RX 5700 is specced at considerably lower clocks than the XT. It's still not perfect, though, as AMD affixed all their voltage-frequency curve points to 0.987 V. Usually, you'd expect to see a gradual stepping pattern that drops to even lower voltages at lower clocks—a bit of efficiency is lost here. With 166 W in gaming, the RX 5700 matches the power consumption of the RTX 2060 almost exactly with more performance at the same time. The reduced power requirements will definitely fly well with people upgrading their system as there is no need for a more powerful PSU. For example, the old Radeon RX 480 used the same amount of power, too.

With such low heat output, you'd expect the RX 5700 to run quietly enough to take on NVIDIA's lineup—power draw and performance are close enough, so fan noise and temperatures should be similar, too. Unfortunately, AMD insists on sticking with blower-type coolers, which simply aren't up to the task. Noise levels reach 43 dBA, the exact same value as for RX 5700 XT, RX Vega, and Radeon VII and simply too noisy. Since the RX 5700 GPU spits out around 50 W less heat than the XT, temperatures dropped from 92°C to 79°C, but apparently, nobody seized that opportunity to adjust the fan curve to reduce noise levels—both cards are capped at around 2100 RPM. What makes things worse is the super weird fan curve the card uses. When the card starts out cool and a game is launched, temperatures will go up as expected. This increase in temperatures slowly makes the fan spin faster and faster to keep up with the heat—so far so good. Once the card reaches 72°C, fan speed will start dropping despite climbing temperatures. Over the next few minutes, fan speed will keep going down to about 1715 RPM (it should be running at 2100 RPM now), and only then, when temperatures have risen to around 78°C, does fan speed increase. I'm completely puzzled by how this could slip by everyone at AMD for them to send out review boards like that. It should be fixable with a BIOS or driver update, though. While the card does not include the idle-fan-stop feature, AMD has tuned idle fan speeds very well as the card is whisper quiet in idle and you won't notice it over other components in your PC.

While overclocking is possible, it is somewhat complicated and really doesn't yield much added performance—we gained 2.4%. Especially memory overclocking is poor. Both AMD and NVIDIA use the exact same GDDR6 memory chips from Micron. On NVIDIA, we can easily reach above 2000 MHz on the memory; on the RX 5700, the 1860 MHz memory OC was the end of the line, probably held back more by driver/BIOS bugs than the memory ICs themselves. Guess we'll see if they can improve that with future driver updates as well.

Initially announced at $379, AMD has just yesterday adjusted the price of RX 5700 down to $349, which helps a lot, especially when compared to NVIDIA's recent RTX Super release. At that price point, both the RX 5700 and RX 5700 XT have the same price/performance ratio, which is quite uncommon. Normally, the slower model has better pricing because you're expected to pay a premium for the extra performance on the higher model. Price/performance also roughly matches the Radeon RX Vega 56—with better performance, of course. Compared to NVIDIA's lineup, both the RTX 2060 and RX 5700 are identical in price/performance, while the RTX 2060 Super is 5% worse, but offers 8% more performance. What NVIDIA has going for its cards, at least when compared with the RX 5700 reference design, is better noise levels, but I'm sure custom designs from AMD's board partners will address that later this year—remember, heat output is the same as for the RTX 2060, so there is no reason these cards won't be just as quiet as RTX 2060 cards, which is a huge win for AMD, especially with its better pricing.
If AMD can lower prices of the RX 5700 a bit more, say to around $320 or even $299, and custom designs manage to achieve heat/noise parity with NVIDIA, they should be able to capture a significant portion of the market back from NVIDIA.
Quote:Looking at the results, we can see a whole lot of nothing. PCI-Express 4.0 achieves only tiny improvements over PCI-Express 3.0—in the sub-1-percent range When averaged over all our benchmarks, we barely notice a 1% difference to PCIe Gen 3. I also included data for PCI-Express Gen 2, data which can be used interchangeably to represent PCIe 3.0 x8 (or PCIe 4.0 x4). Here, the differences are a little bit more pronounced, but with 2%, not much to write home about, either. These results align with what we found in previous PCI-Express scaling articles.
When looking at individual game results, the effects of constrained PCIe bandwidth vary wildly. Some games, Shadow of the Tomb Raider, for example, barely show measurable differences, while titles like Rage 2 and Wolfenstein are much more dependent on PCI-Express bandwidth. I can't see a clear trend between APIs or engines as it rather looks like a dependency on how the game developer chooses to implement their game and how much data they copy from the CPU to the GPU, or even back.

These results are also good news for people who consider running their graphics card at reduced link width, like x8 or even x4, to free up precious PCI-Express lanes for other devices, like storage.
Quote:Herkelman stated that custom-design graphics cards based on the Radeon RX 5700 XT and RX 5700 will start hitting the shelves only by mid-August. He added that he is working with his team to get many of these custom-design cards in the hands of reviewers before that, so consumers have review data ahead of availability. He also acknowledged that the reference cooling solution is the biggest drawback of the reference design, and that he "liked the idea" of providing reference-design cards with dual-fan or triple-fan axial flow reference cooling solutions similar what NVIDIA provides with its Founders Edition cards.
Quote:In a blog post on Edge UP, ASUS said that "Our initial Navi offerings will use AMD's reference cooler design and clock speeds, but we'll be tweaking, tuning, and powering up these new Radeons with coolers of our own design soon. Stay tuned for more details in September." This means that custom cards for Radeon RX 5700 and 5700 XT are arriving later than what we previously thought. It was believed that custom designs from AIBs would arrive some time in August, but the Edge UP post now contradicts that claim. In order to find out more, we would have to wait until August at least. Additionally, it may be possible that a "paper launch" will happen in August, while the general availability is targeted for September.
Quote:Igor Wallossek of Igor'sLAB Germany postulated a method by which an AMD Radeon RX 5700 XT "Navi" graphics card can be made to run at clock-speeds of over 2.20 GHz (engine clock), thanks to custom SoftPowerPlay Tables (SPPTs) deployed by modifications to the Windows Registry.
Wallossek's mod involves preparing your Windows Registry with a driver cleaner such as DDU, downloading and applying Registry files for various new power-limit targets you want. The table below details the various power-limit and clock headroom on offer from each kind of registry file. There's also a registry file that cleans up your Windows Registry of any SPPTs, if you decide to roll-back your mod. You can inspect a registry file by opening it in a plaintext viewer such as Notepad. Find links to the SPPT mods, and the Registry Cleanup in the source link below. You can also watch a video presentation by Wallossek in German language here. You make any changes to your machine at your own risk, be sure to have proper custom cooling for your graphics card.
Quote:Recently, avid PC hardware leaker @KOMACHI_ENSAKA uncovered what appears to be a Navi 14 GPU result on the CompuBench database, under the ID "AMD 7340:C1" that Komachi identifies as a Navi 14 codename used by AMD. The most important things of note from this benchmark result are the card's compute unit (or CU) count and VRAM capacity: 24 CUs and seemingly 4 GB, respectively.

This seems to be the first time we’ve seen Navi 14 in the wild, and some might wonder what exactly Navi 14 is. We don't have all the answers, but it's rumored to be the smaller counterpart of the Navi 10 GPU that powers the Radeon RX 5700 series. Like how the 5700 series basically replaced the RX Vega 56 and 64, it's possible that Navi 14 will replace Polaris, the underlying architecture for GPUs like the RX 580. Though Navi 14 has far fewer CUs than the 580, it's entirely possible it could be much faster; the 5700XT has 24 fewer CUs than the Vega 64 and is significantly faster, for instance.
Regarding Igor's previously mentioned work:
Quote:You might be thinking the 5700 XT is under liquid cooling because it has to be, or it would thermal throttle, but this overclock didn't really push the 5700 XT very hard. This ~10% overclock only required ~15% more power, which is a far cry from the massive power draw required to push previous Vega-based GPUs (even including the Radeon VII that's based on the same 7nm process). For an overclock of this caliber, you hardly need a liquid cooler, just a decent aftermarket air cooler.

Wallossek's testing bodes very well for future RDNA GPUs and other Navi-based GPUs coming sooner, seeing as the 5700 XT overclocks well without needing very much additional power. Overclockers may consider waiting for custom cards to arrive from AMD's partners, or consider picking up a cheaper air cooler for their GPU from companies like Arctic.
ASRock announces custom Navi cards, no word on when they'll be available:
Quote:It’s no secret that upper-end GPU prices have come down recently, thanks to AMD’s recent launch of its RX 5700 and RX 5700 XT. AMD has now stirred the pot a bit, claiming that it successfully bluffed Nvidia into cutting costs, only to yank the rug out from under them and cut prices even more.

This bit of data is embedded in Hot Hardware’s 2.5 Geeks podcast/interview with Scott Herkelman, AMD’s VP of Radeon. Scott goes on to detail how AMD laid its plans carefully, with evaluations of what the RTX cards were capable of in terms of clock speeds, die sizes, Nvidia’s expected revenue and margin targets, and much more. AMD’s initial prices for the RX 5700 and 5700 XT were $500 and $379, but after Nvidia unveiled its Super family, the company cut them back to $350 and $400. According to AMD, this was always the plan.
Matched equally on price, the 5700 and 5700 XT would have been less-well positioned against the RTX 2060S and 2070S than they are now. AMD made a decision to position their GPUs more advantageously by reducing prices. Do I think they planned for that? Absolutely. Do I think AMD would’ve kept its prices higher if the 5700 and 5700 XT had been faster cards? Yes. I can scarcely argue otherwise. I spent six months writing articles about how AMD wouldn’t give its CPUs away if it achieved performance parity with Intel just because some fanboys thought it was a good idea. There’s no reason to think the company wanted to improve its CPU margins but is fine with giving GPUs away at a fraction of what it could charge for them.
The bigger and more important takeaway here is that companies absolutely will raise prices when there is no competition. Nvidia didn’t just magically find a way to reduce Turing costs the same month that AMD launched new GPUs. They raised prices with Turing in part because there was no competition with AMD to stop them.

As soon as AMD re-entered the market with a competitive part, GPU prices came down again. If AMD had been able to ship competitive parts last year, Nvidia might not have been able to increase prices in the first place. If Nvidia hadn’t been focused on squeezing gamers like Juicero bagjuice (and hadn’t possibly misread the crypto market as new gaming sales), it wouldn’t have raised prices regardless. AMD’s attempt to spin a relatively prosaic price cut as a dramatic coup against Team Green doesn’t really track, but high-end GPUs are undeniably less expensive today than they were a month ago. That’s a win for everyone, no matter whose hardware you favor.
Quote:AMD is developing a larger GPU based on its new "Navi" architecture to power a new high-end graphics card family, likely the Radeon RX 5800 series. The codename "Navi 12" is doing rounds on social media through familiar accounts that have high credibility with pre-launch news and rumors. The "Navi 10" silicon was designed to compete with NVIDIA's "TU106," as its "XT" and "Pro" variants outperform NVIDIA's original RTX 2060 and RTX 2070, forcing it to develop the RTX 20 Super series, by moving up specifications a notch.
Quote:AMD's recent Radeon Software Adrenalin 19.7.3 beta drivers appear to break the fan settings of reference-design Radeon RX 5700 XT and RX 5700 cards. All earlier drivers for these cards offered good idle fan-speeds, despite the lack of fan-stop, with the fan of Radeon RX 5700 XT idling around 14% or 740 RPM. Once the new 19.7.3 drivers are installed, the fan-speed never drops below 23% or 1,170 RPM. This phenomenon can be observed even on the reference RX 5700, which now idles at 22% fan-speed, or 1,130 RPM, up from 13% or 685 RPM. This increases fan speed RPMs by 66% for the RX 5700 XT and +57% for the RX 5700. To demonstrate this bug, we first installed reference RX 5700 XT and RX 5700 cards with 19.7.2 drivers, and logged their idle fan-speeds using GPU-Z. Next we switched to 19.7.3 and recorded the same data for a completely idle card, sitting at the desktop.

The raised idle fan-speeds keep the GPU cooler when idling. With 19.7.2, the GPU hotspot was observed to be around 42 °C. Booting from 19.7.3, we see hotspot temperature settle down to around 38 °C for the RX 5700 XT, and to 37 °C for the RX 5700. Such a small difference at such low temperatures really shouldn't have any effect on longevity or anything else. On the other hand, higher fan-speeds also mean that the idle fan-noise levels are noticeably higher, and no longer match the idle fan-speeds measured in launch-day reviews by TechPowerUp and other tech publications.
Quote:Update: The 19.7.4 drivers don't fix this issue, nor is it part of the "known issues" in the driver's changelog.

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