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Console gaming thread
#41
Computer gamers aren't investors and Sony won't go bankrupt even if their share price remains rubbish. Just look at how long AMD has lingered despite their financials.

By the way - Sony did sell off some parts of their company, but it wasn't the console part - it was the PC division and the TV/general electronics division.

They made the most sense to be sold off too - why compete against every chinaman's dog in the commodity electronics market?
Adam knew he should have bought a PC but Eve fell for the marketing hype.

Homeopathy is what happened when snake oil salesmen discovered that water is cheaper than snake oil.

The reason they call it the American Dream is because you have to be asleep to believe it. -- George Carlin
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#42
What's more important is computer game margins are slim because computer gamers demand bargains. Also that Sony is a huge company and the other divisions are in the red, with very little computer gaming revenue to keep the company afloat.

It's the same situation as AMD. The small company (graphics) makes a little money while the big company (CPUs) loses it hand over fist.

AMD may well go under in the next year or two as well.
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#43
Bullshit! gaming is a $100 billion dollar market. Slim margins my arse!
Adam knew he should have bought a PC but Eve fell for the marketing hype.

Homeopathy is what happened when snake oil salesmen discovered that water is cheaper than snake oil.

The reason they call it the American Dream is because you have to be asleep to believe it. -- George Carlin
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#44
I'm sure that the margins on PC games are much slimmer but that is offset by the fact that there is no hardware to subsidize and they get to bypass the retail channel entirely. I'm sure that at the end of the day the profits are similar.
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#45
(03-16-2015, 06:07 PM)gstanford Wrote: Bullshit!  gaming is a $100 billion dollar market.  Slim margins my arse!

It's not a $100b profit market, at least not for Sony:

http://www.forbes.com/sites/danielnyegri...ofits-war/

Quote:Sell-through of 7 million PS4s was announced in mid-April 2014. A ¥8.1 billion ($78 million) operating loss, against a narrow positive income of ¥1.7 billion in the prior year, was related to the cost of launching the PS4.

So a $78m loss in 2014s report.

Slim margins. Doesn't matter if you sell $100b, if it costs $99.999b to do it. According to that, the PS3s only brought in $16m the year before. When you're losing billions, making millions is beside the point.
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#46
Sony is not going bankrupt. Rollo you are sensationalizing this and I have no idea why. You did this the last time before you got banned.

http://www.cinemablend.com/games/PS4-Hel...62125.html
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#47
(03-17-2015, 01:32 AM)SickBeast Wrote: Sony is not going bankrupt.  Rollo you are sensationalizing this and I have no idea why.  You did this the last time before you got banned.

http://www.cinemablend.com/games/PS4-Hel...62125.html

So they had a rare year after 2013 and made $100 million dollars.

Gee this year they predict losses of 1.4 Billion. (with a b)

I'm not the only one predicting woe for Sony, their credit has been downgraded to junk. Junk is not good SickBeast.
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#48
We will see won't we Rollo. You didn't think Sony would make it this far before your last ban.

Your "reasoning on this topic" has nothing to do with economics or common sense and everything to do with being a one-eyed M$ console supporter.
Adam knew he should have bought a PC but Eve fell for the marketing hype.

Homeopathy is what happened when snake oil salesmen discovered that water is cheaper than snake oil.

The reason they call it the American Dream is because you have to be asleep to believe it. -- George Carlin
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#49
Here let me try again:

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2...laystation

Rollo the only thing with junk status is your credibility when it comes to the current consoles. Tongue
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#50
I didn't get into the last console war thread at the old forum - but what are people arguing about!

Just to present my side, I own every Sony console/handheld (including the shitty Vita TV) and I prefer Sony as a console. I also own all the other platforms (I just love gaming) and PC gaming, etc - typical gamer nerd.

Anyways, Sony is pretty much treading water. There is no sensationalizing. They've liquefied just about everything they could and are still barely making it into the black (when you factor all parts I don't even think they're in the black.)

Microsoft's gaming division is doing worse BUT they have a frickin' billion dollar juggernaut to offset their losses. Sony is running out of what they can sell off. There are even rumors of spinning SCEI into it's own company (though I doubt that will ever happen). I'm not even saying I want Sony to fail, just them guys are not doing well and beside rabid-fan-boying, how anyone can down play that is beyond me.

They are so lucky PS4 was a success and even more lucky that Microsoft shit out the Xbone.
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#51
Sony are in the middle of restructing, no wonder things look messy at the moment! Things will improve.

Rollo doesn't like the reception XBONE got from the public at large and plays devils advocate for it on here.

I agree the Sony consoles are overall better than the M$ consoles.

Quote:I'm not even saying I want Sony to fail, just them guys are not doing well and beside rabid-fan-boying, how anyone can down play that is beyond me.
Remember, this is Rollo we are debating......
Adam knew he should have bought a PC but Eve fell for the marketing hype.

Homeopathy is what happened when snake oil salesmen discovered that water is cheaper than snake oil.

The reason they call it the American Dream is because you have to be asleep to believe it. -- George Carlin
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#52
(03-17-2015, 10:04 AM)railven Wrote: Anyways, Sony is pretty much treading water. There is no sensationalizing. They've liquefied just about everything they could and are still barely making it into the black (when you factor all parts I don't even think they're in the black.)

Microsoft's gaming division is doing worse BUT they have a frickin' billion dollar juggernaut to offset their losses. Sony is running out of what they can sell off. There are even rumors of spinning SCEI into it's own company (though I doubt that will ever happen). I'm not even saying I want Sony to fail, just them guys are not doing well and beside rabid-fan-boying, how anyone can down play that is beyond me.

They are so lucky PS4 was a success and even more lucky that Microsoft shit out the Xbone.

Ah, the voice of reason.

I do not want Sony to bite the dust either, just noting their precarious position.

Actually forced the PS3 and PS4 on my son, he never wanted either. (and their use shows it) So I've given Sony's cause over $1000 as basically charity.

(03-17-2015, 06:10 AM)SickBeast Wrote: Here let me try again:

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2...laystation

Rollo the only thing with junk status is your credibility when it comes to the current consoles. Tongue

Their status as a junk bond is a matter of public record. If this forum is to survive and grow, it needs people posting verifiable facts readers can use in their buying decisions.

It does not need speaking from emotion and pimping brands for unknown reasons. :(
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#53
Get him "The last of Us" for PS4 (or PS3), he won't be playing that anytime soon on xbox.
Adam knew he should have bought a PC but Eve fell for the marketing hype.

Homeopathy is what happened when snake oil salesmen discovered that water is cheaper than snake oil.

The reason they call it the American Dream is because you have to be asleep to believe it. -- George Carlin
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#54
(03-17-2015, 06:13 PM)gstanford Wrote: Get him "The last of Us" for PS4 (or PS3), he won't be playing that anytime soon on xbox.

He played it, and liked it. It's more a matter of 99% of his gaming is with friends, and only one has a PS3, one a PS4.
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#55
(03-17-2015, 06:25 PM)RolloTheGreat Wrote:
(03-17-2015, 06:13 PM)gstanford Wrote: Get him "The last of Us" for PS4 (or PS3), he won't be playing that anytime soon on xbox.

He played it, and liked it. It's more a matter of 99% of his gaming is with friends, and only one has a PS3, one a PS4.

That will change as this generation of consoles progresses. We haven't even gotten to the first redesign point yet (though M$ has gotten to the price cut that normally accompanies it Tongue )
Adam knew he should have bought a PC but Eve fell for the marketing hype.

Homeopathy is what happened when snake oil salesmen discovered that water is cheaper than snake oil.

The reason they call it the American Dream is because you have to be asleep to believe it. -- George Carlin
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#56
(03-17-2015, 06:08 PM)RolloTheGreat Wrote:
(03-17-2015, 10:04 AM)railven Wrote: Anyways, Sony is pretty much treading water. There is no sensationalizing. They've liquefied just about everything they could and are still barely making it into the black (when you factor all parts I don't even think they're in the black.)

Microsoft's gaming division is doing worse BUT they have a frickin' billion dollar juggernaut to offset their losses. Sony is running out of what they can sell off. There are even rumors of spinning SCEI into it's own company (though I doubt that will ever happen). I'm not even saying I want Sony to fail, just them guys are not doing well and beside rabid-fan-boying, how anyone can down play that is beyond me.

They are so lucky PS4 was a success and even more lucky that Microsoft shit out the Xbone.

Ah, the voice of reason.

I do not want Sony to bite the dust either, just noting their precarious position.

Actually forced the PS3 and PS4 on my son, he never wanted either. (and their use shows it) So I've given Sony's cause over $1000 as basically charity.


(03-17-2015, 06:10 AM)SickBeast Wrote: Here let me try again:

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2...laystation

Rollo the only thing with junk status is your credibility when it comes to the current consoles. Tongue

Their status as a junk bond is a matter of public record. If this forum is to survive and grow, it needs people posting verifiable facts readers can use in their buying decisions.

It does not need speaking from emotion and pimping brands for unknown reasons.  :(

Just because their bonds have reached junk status it does not mean that they are going bankrupt. You seem to be the only person who is holding that view. They are making decent profits right now. They need to sell off their PC division and do something about their TV division doing so poorly. I don't see my posts as emotional; I'm simply refuting your arguments with facts and links. If that bothers you I really don't know what to say.
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#57
(03-18-2015, 01:23 AM)SickBeast Wrote: Just because their bonds have reached junk status it does not mean that they are going bankrupt.  You seem to be the only person who is holding that view.  They are making decent profits right now.  They need to sell off their PC division and do something about their TV division doing so poorly.  I don't see my posts as emotional; I'm simply refuting your arguments with facts and links.  If that bothers you I really don't know what to say.

You think the profits they are making now are decent?

On the heels of essentially DOMINATING Generation 8 for consoles, the numbers they are reporting are sad. The fact that the company was so mismanaged after going on to selling 22+million consoles in ~25 months (that's almost 1 million a month) they're barely getting into the black.

Once the fat completely trimmed and the console sales aren't paying off losses from other divisions/investments, maybe then they'll have decent profits.
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#58
The rest of the company is broken, that much is clear. Let's not take away from the success that Sony is having with the ps4.
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#59
Sony are on the mend, their financial situation is improving, not worsening, as I stated earlier we are in the middle of the restructure, so, of course it looks messy now.

At least Sony was able to recognise that things had to change and went about changing them (and did so without further screwing the company unlike AMD).
Adam knew he should have bought a PC but Eve fell for the marketing hype.

Homeopathy is what happened when snake oil salesmen discovered that water is cheaper than snake oil.

The reason they call it the American Dream is because you have to be asleep to believe it. -- George Carlin
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#60
And now Nintendo has announced its next gen console, codenamed "NX": http://www.engadget.com/2015/03/17/nintendo-nx-console/
Valve hater, Nintendo hater, Microsoft defender, AMD hater, Google Fiber hater, 4K lover, net neutrality lover.
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#61
They had better hurry up and release it then and lets hope it has some decent specs this time around or Nintendo is dead in the water.

(03-18-2015, 08:53 PM)SteelCrysis Wrote: And now Nintendo has announced its next gen console, codenamed "NX": http://www.engadget.com/2015/03/17/nintendo-nx-console/
Adam knew he should have bought a PC but Eve fell for the marketing hype.

Homeopathy is what happened when snake oil salesmen discovered that water is cheaper than snake oil.

The reason they call it the American Dream is because you have to be asleep to believe it. -- George Carlin
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#62
I don't think we'll see a powerhouse console from Nintendo. They tend to release less powerful hardware than the competition. They did fine with that strategy up until the Wii U.

We have both a Wii and a Wii U and my son actually plays the old Wii the most. It's interesting to see him play the classic games like Super Mario World or Super Mario Bros. 3 instead of the more cutting edge games like Super Mario 3D World. It goes to show that graphics don't really matter and gameplay is more important.

I would say that the Wii has been my most used console of all time. My son in particular has really enjoyed it. I use it ocasionally for the Wii Fit.
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#63
I was going to say that nintendo is in grave danger of becoming a kiddie console only, and there they would be competing against their own wii and tablets/phones.
Adam knew he should have bought a PC but Eve fell for the marketing hype.

Homeopathy is what happened when snake oil salesmen discovered that water is cheaper than snake oil.

The reason they call it the American Dream is because you have to be asleep to believe it. -- George Carlin
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#64
(03-19-2015, 08:34 AM)gstanford Wrote: I was going to say that nintendo is in grave danger of becoming a kiddie console only, and there they would be competing against their own wii and tablets/phones.

I think that part of the reason why the original Wii was so successful was because it was so cheap compared to the other consoles. The Wii U costs almost as much as the PS4 which is several times more powerful. I'm sure Nintendo could cut the price of the Wii U to $199 or even $149 and they would fly off the shelves and I don't think they would lose much money. I think that they messed up with the gamepad as well. We never use ours. It has horrible battery life and the screen on it is low resolution. It's occasionally useful when I want to watch a baseball game on TV and my son can play the Wii U on the gamepad screen, but that situation has not come up very often. Perhaps the gamepad should have been an add-on accessory. They probably could have cut $50 off the price of the console without it.
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#65
http://www.nintendo.co.jp/corporate/rele...qa/02.html
Now Nintendo's denying being pushed into mobile.
Quote:Q 3

I would like to ask both Mr. Iwata and Mr. Moriyasu whether I can assume that you have made this alliance because you felt a sense of crisis in approaching the smartphone game business by yourselves. Also to Mr. Moriyasu, I assume DeNA will continue making its own games in addition to the ones with Nintendo IP, but how will you differentiate them, if at all?
A 3

Iwata:

A variety of media have written that Nintendo is cornered a number of times, but I do not think we were cornered at all. Needless to say, we are also aware that unless a company can deal with the rapidly changing world, it will face decline. But I would like to emphasize here that our alliance is not the result of a lack of better options for a cornered company.

When I first met with Mr. Moriyasu, I started to wonder if there was anything we could work on together. After that, the more we discussed, the more I realized that DeNA knew so many things that Nintendo did not. Mr. Moriyasu even said that DeNA did not mind remaining in the background as long as it could collaborate with Nintendo, and I came to realize that this could be a very productive opportunity as in comparison to what Nintendo might have been able to achieve by itself. We would be able to provide consumers with far more attractive offers in terms of entertainment experiences and speed.

This is why I just said that this is not a decision made out of a lack of options. In fact, Nintendo has received a number of proposals from a variety of companies. Among them, Nintendo has proactively chosen DeNA, and today, we are able to make this announcement. Mr. Moriyasu?

Moriyasu:

From DeNA’s point of view, the app game market for smart devices including smartphones is precisely what we have been focusing on. We recently created a hit game app, and we have a very good sense that we will be successful in this area. We evaluated what options are out there in order to expand our business and presence even further, and we thought the best one is to form a partnership with Nintendo. Nintendo has extremely powerful IP, and leveraging this IP will be very effective to grow our business even more. It makes a lot of sense to us, and we are ecstatic that we are able to form this alliance.

In the second part of your question, you asked what we plan to do with our original IP in addition to the new collaborative IP titles. Throughout DeNA’s history, we have always worked with many different companies to develop games that use their IP. Strong IP is very effective in drawing users’ attention. So, yes, we will continue to co-develop titles based on various kinds of IP.

At the same time, we also have a strong desire to create our own, original IP. And we will work on that in parallel. We will actually be making much more than one or two titles per year. Among the multiple titles we are going to develop, some of them will be our own IP titles that we develop completely on our own, and some will be collaborative.


Valve hater, Nintendo hater, Microsoft defender, AMD hater, Google Fiber hater, 4K lover, net neutrality lover.
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#66
On the old forum, a very long time ago, I suggested Nintendo IP could make them mega rich if they would develop games for cell phones and tablets.

They could port so many all time favorites to android and IOS. Some people think this will cheapen the name and its bad for the company. I really don't think so at all. As long as Nintendo is in control of their IP and don't let outside developers do what the please.

This new generation knows very little about the great games Nintendo had in the past. A move like this would actually bring in more fans and interest. Nintendo can build a new platform in the meantime. Totally reinvent the company.

Nintendo can not continue and has to evolve. Period
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#67
(03-26-2015, 10:19 PM)ocre Wrote: On the old forum, a very long time ago, I suggested Nintendo IP could make them mega rich if they would develop games for cell phones and tablets.  

They could port so many all time favorites to android and IOS.   Some people think this will cheapen the name and its bad for the company.  I really don't think so at all.  As long as Nintendo is in control of their IP and don't let outside developers do what the please.  

This new generation knows very little about the great games Nintendo had in the past. A move like this would actually bring in more fans and interest.  Nintendo can build a new platform in the meantime.  Totally reinvent the company.

Nintendo can not continue and has to evolve.  Period

This seems reasonable to me.

The only possible flaw I can think of is if there would be competition between smartphones and Nintendos handhelds, which I would not think to be the case. We were one of the first parents in my son's friends to give him a smartphone (I think he was 10?) and that would be nearing the top end of the Nintendo handheld market.

You just don't see 12-13 year olds rocking the DS these days.
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#68
Yeah, That is the thing. What ever effect smart phones might have is out of their control. Smartphones have already invaded hand held gaming and there is nothing anyone can do about it. They either get on that train or just loose out.

It is a great opportunity for nintendo
You dont see adults playing DS's but there are plenty of older people that love mario and zelda. Ninitendo has billions of dollars just ready to be handed over to them. They just need to port over their classics to mobile. As many as they can. Have an nintendo play app or however they wish to do it.

There are countless old games that are legendary. The only task would be to make sure they get the touch controls to work in a natural way. But considering how few buttons you needed for those games, it really shouldnt be too hard.

I dont think the focus should be on making a ton of new content to sell on android or IOS. I am not talking about making Super Maro Bird or Zelda Crush Saga. Nintendo should still create the best new content for their own HW. This would be imperative. The whole idea is that they have a massive library of hits that could make them crap loads of money. It would also bring in new interest and rejuvenate their name. New generations can experience what it means to be Nintendo.

I just think it would strike up new interest and draw their attention even more towards what they have coming out in the modern age. They not only make a ton of money, they are getting people to pay for what is essentially the best possible advertisement, bringing fresh interest while making nintendo a household name again. Its a great marketing strategy that customers pay directly for. Its genius
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#69
I can't believe Nintendo isn't doing this already, there must be some downside we haven't thought of.

On the face of it, I see no flaw with your logic.

Nintendo is pretty much the gold standard of cheesy primitive looking games and you would think they could be played on a phone. It's a huge untapped market for them.
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#70
And now Nintendo's taken down the Super Mario 64 HD browser game even though it only had 1 level from the original game: http://www.neowin.net/news/nintendo-take...o-64-clone
Valve hater, Nintendo hater, Microsoft defender, AMD hater, Google Fiber hater, 4K lover, net neutrality lover.
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#71
Yeah, M$ wouldn't mind if someone made a copy of all their halo games. They would probably rather people go play it online for free and just not buy their rerelease on Xbox one
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#72
Commentary on the double standard in favor of Nintendo:


Valve hater, Nintendo hater, Microsoft defender, AMD hater, Google Fiber hater, 4K lover, net neutrality lover.
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#73
Double standard?

I wouldn't call it a double standard. Nintendo is almost completely insignificant and are desperate.

That's about all there is to say about that.

Steelcrysis, Nintendo makes valve look like angels from heaven. You might want to add them to your sig
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#74
OK, I've added them to my sig.
Valve hater, Nintendo hater, Microsoft defender, AMD hater, Google Fiber hater, 4K lover, net neutrality lover.
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#75
http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2015/04/3...sor-sales/

Quote:Last year we reported things were very bad indeed over at electronics giant Sony, and at first glance Sony's financials for its fiscal year ending March 31 2015 aren't all that rosy either. Despite reporting an overall annual operating income of ¥68.5 billion ($576 million), a big increase over last year's ¥26.5 billion ($222 million), the company still racked up a net loss of ¥126 billion ($1.05 billion). That's barely less than the $1.24 billion net loss posted last year.

However, strong PlayStation 4 and camera image sensor sales mean the company is predicting strong results for 2015, and expects to make ¥320 billion ($2.69 billion) in operating income and ¥140 billion ($1.1 billion) in net profit. For the 2014 fiscal year, Sony reported it had shipped 14.8 million PS4s. Combined with the 7.5 million shipped in the company's 2013 fiscal year (when the console was launched towards the tail end of it) total PS4s shipped are now 22.3 million. A few days ago, we reported that Microsoft's Xbox One sales faltered slightly in Q1 2015.

Quote:That said, Sony still has some black holes in its portfolio to attend to, most of all its mobile and tablet business, which continues to bleed money. While smartphones sales remained largely flat, the division made an operating loss of ¥217.6 billion ($1.82 billion) thanks to a ¥176 billion ($1.47 billion) impairment charge, and restructuring costs from the sale of Visual Audio Intelligent Organizer (VAIO). The mobile division is also the only core division that Sony expects to lose money in 2015, forecasting an operating loss of ¥39 billion ($327 million).

Quote:Still, investors are happy with the way things are going: shares in the company have risen more than 30 percent during 2015.

Are you ready to eat crow on your Sony Bankruptcy claims Rollo?  I'm warming up the oven.........
Adam knew he should have bought a PC but Eve fell for the marketing hype.

Homeopathy is what happened when snake oil salesmen discovered that water is cheaper than snake oil.

The reason they call it the American Dream is because you have to be asleep to believe it. -- George Carlin
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#76
Cat got your tongue Rollo?

I know you've been logged in and seen the thread.......
Adam knew he should have bought a PC but Eve fell for the marketing hype.

Homeopathy is what happened when snake oil salesmen discovered that water is cheaper than snake oil.

The reason they call it the American Dream is because you have to be asleep to believe it. -- George Carlin
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#77
(05-01-2015, 09:43 AM)gstanford Wrote: Cat got your tongue Rollo?

I know you've been logged in and seen the thread.......

Actually what you posted has convinced me Sony is in bad shape, and that my assessment of consoles being low margin items is correct.

So they lost $1.2b in 2013, and $1b in 2014?

Wowee. In the fiscal year their console launched, where sales of said console are probably as high as they will be at prices that are certainly the highest they will ever be, Sony still lost $1b dollars.

That is the take away here, the only info that matters. The only question that remains is how long a company can lose a billion a year and stay in business. I dine on juicy steaks, not crow.

In short, I think Sonys predictions of going to $1b profit after $1b loss are "optimistic". PS4 was out all of last year.
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#78
You have been dead wrong on this so far and you are still dead wrong.

I'll believe Sony and the financial analysts over your ridiculous version of events.

The console division was never the one in trouble anyway. It was a bunch of Sony's other divisions that got them into financial trouble, trouble that they are now nearly out of.

M$ only wishes they could say the same for their console division at the moment. So desperate that they don't split "sales numbers" between the XBONE and 360 and they don't report actual sales to consumers only units shipped to distributors/retailers.

But hey, they are apparently beating the Wii U (just)......
Adam knew he should have bought a PC but Eve fell for the marketing hype.

Homeopathy is what happened when snake oil salesmen discovered that water is cheaper than snake oil.

The reason they call it the American Dream is because you have to be asleep to believe it. -- George Carlin
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#79
(05-01-2015, 06:22 PM)gstanford Wrote: You have been dead wrong on this so far and you are still dead wrong.

I'll believe Sony and the financial analysts over your ridiculous version of events.

The console division was never the one in trouble anyway.  It was a bunch of Sony's other divisions that got them into financial trouble, trouble that they are now nearly out of.

M$ only wishes they could say the same for their console division at the moment.  So desperate that they don't split "sales numbers" between the XBONE and 360 and they don't report actual sales to consumers only units shipped to distributors/retailers.

But hey, they are apparently beating the Wii U (just)......
Rolleyes

LOL!

You think MS wishes they were Sony in ANY way??!!

That is like saying "intel wishes they knew the goodness of AMD CPUs".

Greg, MS makes $4-5b a quarter. Sony loses $1b a year. Sony is worth $35b as a company. Microsoft is worth $399b.

Microsoft could buy Sony with their pocket change.

It's remotely "possible" that MS could elect to leave the gaming market because the table scraps there keeping Sony scraping along aren't worth their time, but I guarantee you MS isn't wishing for anything Sony has.

MS employees know they have a job next year.
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#80
Sony's console division knows they have a job next year too. What M$ makes as a whole is irrelevant to this thread, just as Sony's other divisions are.

What their console division (doesn't) make is.
Adam knew he should have bought a PC but Eve fell for the marketing hype.

Homeopathy is what happened when snake oil salesmen discovered that water is cheaper than snake oil.

The reason they call it the American Dream is because you have to be asleep to believe it. -- George Carlin
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