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Console gaming thread
#81
(05-02-2015, 06:51 AM)gstanford Wrote: Sony's console division knows they have a job next year too.  What M$ makes as a whole is irrelevant to this thread, just as Sony's other divisions are.

What their console division (doesn't) make is.

Do you think AMD is irrelevant to ATi?

Or is the success of NVIDIA's GPU division irrelevant to their Shield division on the flip side of things?

Far better to be a break even or losing division of a huge, wildly successful company than to be a small successful piece of a bigger failing company.

All one pot of money Gstanford.

Do you think AMD losing money year after year affects staffing and R&D funds at ATi?

Why would Sony be any different?

One of the NVIDIA guys said it best to me back when AMD bought ATi: "AMD is too big of a company to be supported by the profits of half of the discrete graphics market."

Similarly, Sony is too big a company to be supported by the profits of 2/3 of the gaming market.

Furthermore, the only reason Sony gets to sell ANY PS4s is MS allows it. MS could easily afford to sell Xbones for half what PS4s sells for, just to "buy the market". Sony doesn't have that luxury because they're going broke, not getting incredibly wealthy.

The only reason MS doesn't just step on Sony in the gaming market is they're still selling more Xbones than they were 360s, so whether Sony sells more PS4s is probably irrelevant to them.
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#82
Sony doesn't have to rely on the console division to support the whole company, there is only one division left at Sony that isn't profitable now - the mobile division.

As for "Do you think AMD is irrelevant to ATi?", Yes I do actually and the history of the two companies since the buyout clearly shows it. AMD the CPU company is all but dead and buried while the parasitic ATi GPU half keeps on going. ATi has eaten AMD from the inside out since being acquired.

Quote:Furthermore, the only reason Sony gets to sell ANY PS4s is MS allows it. MS could easily afford to sell Xbones for half what PS4s sells for, just to "buy the market". Sony doesn't have that luxury because they're going broke, not getting incredibly wealthy.

The only reason MS doesn't just step on Sony in the gaming market is they're still selling more Xbones than they were 360s, so whether Sony sells more PS4s is probably irrelevant to them.
Thanks for the laugh! I can't remember the last time I read something quite as hilarious as that!

http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2015/04/30...t-the-ps4/

A pretty good read so long as you are aware of the misleading article title. As many commenters have pointed out, the overall gap hasn't actually narrowed at all over the lifetime of the PS4 and XBONE.
Adam knew he should have bought a PC but Eve fell for the marketing hype.

Homeopathy is what happened when snake oil salesmen discovered that water is cheaper than snake oil.

The reason they call it the American Dream is because you have to be asleep to believe it. -- George Carlin
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#83
Greg,

MS sells 1m XBones a quarter, they cost $349.. If they lowered the price $300, they would presumably lose some percent of $300m.

$1b is $1000m. MS makes $4-5b each quarter. At most, MS would lose 7.5% of their quarterly income to sell Xbones for $49..

Of course, no one on the planet would buy a PS4 if XBones cost $49, so presumably MS would lose another $600m selling 2m more XBones.

So for 20-25% of their quarterly profit (going from $4-5b to $3-4b) MS could starve poor Sony out of the console market, and then jack prices back up when they are gone.

Or they could just buy Sony for $35b and close them down. Think the stockholders at Sony wouldn't love to cash out?

As far as ATi consuming AMD goes, they're probably about half of AMDs feeble revenue stream:

http://www.anandtech.com/show/8625/amd-q...s-analysis

The ONLY reason Sony gets to play in the console market is the whole console market is such tiny scraps to MS they probably don't much care if they have a 1/3 or 1/2 of the console market.

If consoles were as important to MS as they are to Sony, you'd get a free XBone with a copy of Halo. :-)
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#84
People haven't forgotten M$ dictatorial ways at the launch of the XBONE Rollo, nor have they forgotten the XBONE has inferior hardware to the PS4. (a gpu half as fast, DDR3 instead of GDDR5).

M$ SHOULD sell XBONE at LEAST $100 cheaper than PS4 and refund that same $100 to everyone who bought the piece of shit at a higher price!

Still would not help it outsell Sony though. XBONE only has two "strong" (It is being outsold badly even in its "strong" markets) markets - USA and United Kingdom. The rest of the world is firmly in the Sony camp and no amount of discounts will change that.
Adam knew he should have bought a PC but Eve fell for the marketing hype.

Homeopathy is what happened when snake oil salesmen discovered that water is cheaper than snake oil.

The reason they call it the American Dream is because you have to be asleep to believe it. -- George Carlin
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#85
Another thing MS "could" easily do if they cared about the profits of the console market is buy AMD.

AMDs current market cap is $1.7b, around 40% of the money MS makes every three months. I bet if MS offered AMD one quarter worth of profits ($4-5b) the board at AMD would sell. AMD is about done, and they need a "savior".

If MS bought them they could triple the price of APUs to Sony, and say they needed to do so to recoup their investment and avoid any predatory pricing worries. intel might welcome the move to maintain their "competition", but even if not, MS could just shelve AMD and start buying superior intel and NVIDIA chips for XBones.

None of this will happen though, because the console market is low margin scraps.

3m consoles/qtr at $400 each for round numbers.

Think there is $100 profit per console? Maybe.

If so, that's $300m/quarter total profit in the console market, and MS makes $4000-$5000m every quarter. (of which $100m might be from Xbones)

There's just no money there for a company like MS, my guess is the only reason they do this is to cement DX with devs and support their real business.

So no matter how much you boast about PS4s "amazing feat" of taking 17% of the console market away from MS, that 17% probably means $50m a quarter to a company making $5000m per quarter.

Scraps. Numbers don't lie.

Of course MS is ALREADY limiting DX12 to XBones and PCs, so PS4 has that upcoming hurdle.

Some devs will likely skip PS4 altogether.
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#86
Quote:Another thing MS "could" easily do if they cared about the profits of the console market is buy AMD.

AMDs current market cap is $1.7b, around 40% of the money MS makes every three months. I bet if MS offered AMD one quarter worth of profits ($4-5b) the board at AMD would sell. AMD is about done, and they need a "savior".

If MS bought them they could triple the price of APUs to Sony, and say they needed to do so to recoup their investment and avoid any predatory pricing worries. intel might welcome the move to maintain their "competition", but even if not, MS could just shelve AMD and start buying superior intel and NVIDIA chips for XBones.

Will never happen because of the x86 licence. Especially if it concerns M$ getting their hands on it. All of a sudden Win-tel becomes Win (for M$) and intel is out in the cold. You think intel will allow that to happen?!

Quote:There's just no money there for a company like MS, my guess is the only reason they do this is to cement DX with devs and support their real business.
They do it do get royalties off of the software which devs can't avoid because M$ owns the eco-system.

And they won't support their "real business" with that money - PC's barely benefitted at all from XBOX360, M$ let PC's stagnate and concentrated purely on the consoles.
Adam knew he should have bought a PC but Eve fell for the marketing hype.

Homeopathy is what happened when snake oil salesmen discovered that water is cheaper than snake oil.

The reason they call it the American Dream is because you have to be asleep to believe it. -- George Carlin
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#87
My son just bought Mario Kart 8 for the Wii U with his allowance that he saved up. I have to say it's a really cool game. I'm really impressed with what Nintendo has been able to pull off with very weak hardware. The graphics are beautiful. I wish the games were rendered in 1080p, but really no consoles are doing that so I can't falter Nintendo for that.

The screenshots from the new Zelda game look incredible as well. IMO Nintendo is by far the best game developer in the world. They're simply in a class of their own. I really like that their games are family oriented as well.

I've heard rumors that they are working on a new console. It will be interesting to see what they do. If it runs all games at 1080p I will be interested in it. I have no interest at all in the PS4/Xbone. I'm extremely disappointed that they still run games at 720p.
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#88
Rollo, you are being ridiculous.

Good thing I know that you don't even believe the stuff you are spouting out and are just trying to get "good" argument going.

You know that M$ is careful now. You know that investors are apprehensive because of all the failures they have had out side of windows. You know the fear that m$ can't evolve with the times.

You know that m$ cannot sell all their xbones at a loss just with the intentions to run Sony out of business. Of know that that is not legal n any way, shape or form

You know that Sony is a Japanese company, there is no way in hell M$ could/would even be able to buy them. On so many levels.......
There is no way you can seriously believe this crap you are saying.
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#89
I'm not sure Microsoft is selling the Xbone at a loss. Analysis of the PS4 and Xbone at launch indicated that both were making profits on the hardware out of the gates. Manufacturing refinements have undoubtedly compensated at least a little for price cuts.
Valve hater, Nintendo hater, Microsoft defender, AMD hater, Google Fiber hater, 4K lover, net neutrality lover.
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#90
M$ isn't making a loss on XBONE, they never did. Now that kinect isn't bundled and with design/assembly line tweaks they make quite a large profit on each XBONE they sell.
Adam knew he should have bought a PC but Eve fell for the marketing hype.

Homeopathy is what happened when snake oil salesmen discovered that water is cheaper than snake oil.

The reason they call it the American Dream is because you have to be asleep to believe it. -- George Carlin
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#91
(05-02-2015, 11:38 PM)ocre Wrote: Rollo, you are being ridiculous.

While it's all unlikely (for the stated reason of money in play being tip money to MS if nothing else) it would all be possible for a company the size of MS with their income and cash reserves.

Sony exists in the console business at MS's discretion.
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#92
Actually ms buying AMD would be very interesting.
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#93
(05-03-2015, 03:57 AM)RolloTheGreat Wrote:
(05-02-2015, 11:38 PM)ocre Wrote: Rollo, you are being ridiculous.

While it's all unlikely (for the stated reason of money in play being tip money to MS if nothing else) it would all be possible for a company the size of MS with their income and cash reserves.

Sony exists in the console business at MS's discretion.

[Image: anim_wanking.gif] . [Image: joint.gif]



(05-03-2015, 05:38 AM)SickBeast Wrote: Actually ms buying AMD would be very interesting.

It's impossible and will never happen. M$ might pick up what the ATi portion of AMD though. They haven't a hope in hell of getting the CPU side with an intact x86 licence.
Adam knew he should have bought a PC but Eve fell for the marketing hype.

Homeopathy is what happened when snake oil salesmen discovered that water is cheaper than snake oil.

The reason they call it the American Dream is because you have to be asleep to believe it. -- George Carlin
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#94
You're going to see the beginning of what having money and control of DX soon means Greg.

My guess is we'll start seeing MS exclusive DX12 titles because MS will offer free staff resources and outright buy key titles to ensure DX12s use. (like NVIDIA does with their proprietary features on the staff and tools)
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#95
There is nothing in DX12 that isn't also in OpenGL and Vulkan. Never mind the fact that there are more potential sales on the Sony side than there are on the XBONE side = more developer profit.

But never mind, M$ will school Sony just like they did with the original XBOX when it went up against PS2 [Image: joint.gif]

except it was the PS2 that schooled the XBOX and nearly every cross console game in the 360/PS3 era was better/had more developer work done for it on PS3.....
Adam knew he should have bought a PC but Eve fell for the marketing hype.

Homeopathy is what happened when snake oil salesmen discovered that water is cheaper than snake oil.

The reason they call it the American Dream is because you have to be asleep to believe it. -- George Carlin
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#96
Sure there are double the potential sales to PS4s vs XBones, but the installed user base is at least equal when you throw in PCs.

Not to mention, if MS says "We'll give you a bunch of equipment and a team of programmers to help you get your game to market as a DX12 title!" how many devs are going to say "Screw you MS! We don't want your help that saves us time...and money....gives us a leg up on our competitors....".

That's what TWIMTBP has always been..
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#97
Quote:Sure there are double the potential sales to PS4s vs XBones, but the installed user base is at least equal when you throw in PCs.

LOL! PS4 + PC > XBONE + PC......

Quote:Not to mention, if MS says "We'll give you a bunch of equipment and a team of programmers to help you get your game to market as a DX12 title!" how many devs are going to say "Screw you MS! We don't want your help that saves us time...and money....gives us a leg up on our competitors....".

That's what TWIMTBP has always been..

What has TWIMTBP got to do with it?! That was a nvidia program, not an M$ one! Sony has their own developer assistance program too you know. In fact PS4 is what it is because the guy in charge of Sony software development was put in charge of designing the PS4 as well (because he knows what developers want).
Adam knew he should have bought a PC but Eve fell for the marketing hype.

Homeopathy is what happened when snake oil salesmen discovered that water is cheaper than snake oil.

The reason they call it the American Dream is because you have to be asleep to believe it. -- George Carlin
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#98
(05-03-2015, 07:20 PM)gstanford Wrote: LOL!  PS4 + PC > XBONE + PC......

Yes, that is true, but there is no DX12 for PS4. Might be just a "little" more enticing to do DX12 games (than code for last gen DX)?

http://www.dsogaming.com/news/dx12-versu...ole-stuff/

If they can get 100fps difference with PC, the difference might even the playing field for XBones.


(05-03-2015, 07:20 PM)gstanford Wrote: What has TWIMTBP got to do with it?!  That was a nvidia program, not an M$ one!  Sony has their own developer assistance program too you know.  In fact PS4 is what it is because the guy in charge of Sony software development was put in charge of designing the PS4 as well (because he knows what developers want).

This is how proprietary features, and code optimized for a specific part (like an XBone) happen.

MS says to developers "We're excited about the new capabilities of our DX12! We'd like to give you hardware, coders, and the tools to put lots of DX12 optimizations into your game!".

Same as NVIDIA did with TSAA, 3d Vision, and PhysX. Is all that stuff in "most games"? No. But when you get it in some key titles and put some videos on YouTube showing the difference, then tell the press and advocate guys, "People want to know about this" you build buzz that DX12 is worth having.

What does PS4 offer XBone does not? More 1080P games.

Tables might turn if XBone with DX12> PS4 on DX11.
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#99
Doesn't PS4 use OpenGL?
Valve hater, Nintendo hater, Microsoft defender, AMD hater, Google Fiber hater, 4K lover, net neutrality lover.
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(05-03-2015, 03:57 AM)RolloTheGreat Wrote: While it's all unlikely (for the stated reason of money in play being tip money to MS if nothing else) it would all be possible for a company the size of MS with their income and cash reserves.

Sony exists in the console business at MS's discretion.

I am not saying they couldnt afford it.
It doesnt have anything to do with money. I guess you dont know much about the Japanese. Sony would never be sold to M$, they would self destruct and burn to the ground. M$ wouldnt even be able to buy the ash.

(05-03-2015, 07:14 PM)RolloTheGreat Wrote: Sure there are double the potential sales to PS4s vs XBones, but the installed user base is at least equal when you throw in PCs.

Not to mention, if MS says "We'll give you a bunch of equipment and a team of programmers to help you get your game to market as a DX12 title!"  how many devs are going to say "Screw you MS! We don't want your help that saves us time...and money....gives us a leg up on our competitors....".

That's what TWIMTBP has always been..

PC gaming market world wide is larger than you might think............

http://www.pcgamer.com/there-are-711-mil...ays-intel/

Intel says there are 711 million PC gamers world wide. This is massive but you might say they arent playing the games we are care about. But looking at other data, like dGPU sales yr after yr and the fact that people continue to game on old HW for years and years, then data like this

http://www.ign.com/articles/2014/07/14/p...ware-sales

10 million WOW players subscribing, 75 million world of tank players, 19.5 million minecraft PC sales and growing at 10-20,000 a day (nevermind the fact they passed 100 million non paid accounts years ago), etc, etc.

The PC gaming business is massive. For some reasons studios and developers dont release their digital sales figures for the big multiplatform releases. It is really really strange. You only hear the amount of boxed retail sales for any particular PC game. This makes it difficult when looking at PC gaming sales, but there is enough hard evidence out there to know for sure that there are more PC gamers than both the xbone and PS4 combined. That and then some
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Preach it brother Ocre!

It will be interesting to see what DX12 does to PS4s 2:1 sales ratio.

Not that it matters a ton to me, but I lean toward PC gaming and always have. (no console since Sega Genesis) As such, care much more about MSs success than anything Sony is up to.
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Rollo Wrote:Yes, that is true, but there is no DX12 for PS4.  Might be just a "little" more enticing to do DX12 games (than code for last gen DX)?

Sony has OpenGL and Vulkan which has all the capabilities that DX12 has. PC developers have already demonstrated they are willing to use different rendering API's - hence Mantle being included in several big name PC titles.

Rollo Wrote:This is how proprietary features, and code optimized for a specific part (like an XBone) happen.

MS says to developers "We're excited about the new capabilities of our DX12! We'd like to give you hardware, coders, and the tools to put lots of DX12 optimizations into your game!".

Only one problem with that - the version of GCN inside XBONE (and PS4) doesn't fully support everything DX12 & Mantle/Vulkan are capable of in hardware. It would have to be emulated through shaders. And guess what? The PS4 has a GPU with more and faster shaders to do that sort of thing. The XBONE GPU is an anemic wimp.

Rollo Wrote:What does PS4 offer XBone does not? More 1080P games.
More GPU power overall which fan be used for extra effects, extra resolution or any combination of the two. Something XBONE can't do because it is literally half the GPU in PS4.

(05-04-2015, 12:59 AM)SteelCrysis Wrote: Doesn't PS4 use OpenGL?

Yes and Vulkan and OpenCL on top of that. Which gives it all the capabilities and more of DX12. Not to mention it all runs on a GPU twice as fast as the one found in XBONE.

(05-04-2015, 01:13 AM)ocre Wrote:
(05-03-2015, 03:57 AM)RolloTheGreat Wrote: While it's all unlikely (for the stated reason of money in play being tip money to MS if nothing else) it would all be possible for a company the size of MS with their income and cash reserves.

Sony exists in the console business at MS's discretion.

I am not saying they couldnt afford it.  
It doesnt have anything to do with money.  I guess you dont know much about the Japanese.  Sony would never be sold to M$, they would self destruct and burn to the ground.  M$ wouldnt even be able to buy the ash.


(05-03-2015, 07:14 PM)RolloTheGreat Wrote: Sure there are double the potential sales to PS4s vs XBones, but the installed user base is at least equal when you throw in PCs.

Not to mention, if MS says "We'll give you a bunch of equipment and a team of programmers to help you get your game to market as a DX12 title!"  how many devs are going to say "Screw you MS! We don't want your help that saves us time...and money....gives us a leg up on our competitors....".

That's what TWIMTBP has always been..

PC gaming market world wide is larger than you might think............

http://www.pcgamer.com/there-are-711-mil...ays-intel/

Intel says there are 711 million PC gamers world wide.  This is massive but you might say they arent playing the games we are care about.  But looking at other data, like dGPU sales yr after yr and the fact that people continue to game on old HW for years and years, then data like this

http://www.ign.com/articles/2014/07/14/p...ware-sales

10 million WOW players subscribing, 75 million world of tank players, 19.5 million minecraft PC sales and growing at 10-20,000 a day (nevermind the fact they passed 100 million non paid accounts years ago), etc, etc.

The PC gaming business is massive. For some reasons studios and developers dont release their digital sales figures for the big multiplatform releases.  It is really really strange.  You only hear the amount of boxed retail sales for any particular PC game. This makes it difficult when looking at PC gaming sales, but there is enough hard evidence out there to know for sure that there are more PC gamers than both the xbone and PS4 combined.  That and then some

I've already posted about this in a seperate topic that got virtually no attention.

More people game on PC than any other platform.

http://www.theesa.com/article/150-millio...deo-games/

http://www.theesa.com/wp-content/uploads...raphic.pdf

Don't make the mistake of thinking that just because PC gaming is dominant that DirectX will also be dominant though. That certainly was not true in the Quake/2/3 era when OpenGL was the dominant 3D renderer and there is no reason why that can't happen again with OpenGL/Vulkan.

(05-04-2015, 01:48 AM)RolloTheGreat Wrote: Preach it brother Ocre!

It will be interesting to see what DX12 does to PS4s 2:1 sales ratio.

Not that it matters a ton to me, but I lean toward PC gaming and always have. (no console since Sega Genesis) As such, care much more about MSs success than anything Sony is up to.

It has done nothing whatsoever to it so far and will do nothing to it in future.

DX12 will have to be software emulated on XBONE - ie: ran on the GPU shaders because the version of GCN present in XBONE (and PS4) doesn't fully support all the features in hardware.

PS4 has more shaders available than XBONE does.  It has Vulkan which does everything DX12 can do.  Guess who is going to do "DX12 features faster out of the two consoles? (hint: not the XBONE)
Adam knew he should have bought a PC but Eve fell for the marketing hype.

Homeopathy is what happened when snake oil salesmen discovered that water is cheaper than snake oil.

The reason they call it the American Dream is because you have to be asleep to believe it. -- George Carlin
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(05-04-2015, 09:54 AM)gstanford Wrote: Don't make the mistake of thinking that just because PC gaming is dominant that DirectX will also be dominant though.  That certainly was not true in the Quake/2/3 era when OpenGL was the dominant 3D renderer and there is no reason why that can't happen again with OpenGL/Vulkan.

LOL

Yes, Gstanford, OpenGL was all the rage when Quake III launched.....sixteen years ago.

It's comin' back!

OpenGL was popular in the 1990s because Direct3d wasn't as good as OpenGL. As DirectX improved, devs dropped OpenGL like a hot rock.

Your theory is:

Now that Direct X is the best it's ever been, devs will go back to OpenGl because PS4s don't DX12.

Sure.
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There is nothing that Direct3D 12 can do that OpenGL and Vulkan and OpenCL cannot.

What is more the part that runs off of OpenGL has twice the GPU firepower at its disposal compared the DirectX part (which is only hardware DX11.2, NOT DX12).

https://www.microsoft.com/investor/Earni...fault.aspx

http://arstechnica.com/civis/viewtopic.p...#p28911005
Quote:Xbox Platform revenue decreased $306 million or 24%, driven by a 20% decline in console volume and lower prices of Xbox One consoles compared to the prior year.
Microsoft shipped 1.6 million consoles between Xbox One and Xbox 360. Split currently unknown, this is down 400k from this time last year. The split last year was 800k Xbox 360 to 1.2 million Xbox One.

Xbox 360 is almost certainly down from last year, so the split should be more favorable for XB1 than it was last year. However, with the 400k loss in total consoles shipped, it's likely that XB1 shipments basically remained flat this year, if Xbox 360 sales went down 50%. If 360 sales were down less than 50%, then XB1 is down YoY. Remember that XB1 only had the 500 dollar Kinect SKU this time last year, but has 350 dollar SKU's this year and seems unable to sell more consoles YoY.

PS4 in comparison sold 1.7 million consoles between Jan-Feb, 100k more than MS shipped between Jan-March.
Adam knew he should have bought a PC but Eve fell for the marketing hype.

Homeopathy is what happened when snake oil salesmen discovered that water is cheaper than snake oil.

The reason they call it the American Dream is because you have to be asleep to believe it. -- George Carlin
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(05-04-2015, 05:42 PM)gstanford Wrote: There is nothing that Direct3D 12 can do that OpenGL and Vulkan and OpenCL cannot.

What is more the part that runs off of OpenGL has twice the GPU firepower at its disposal compared the DirectX part (which is only hardware DX11.2, NOT DX12).

Yet mysteriously OpenGL is about as rare Obama supporters in corporate boardrooms.....
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That's because not only is OpenGL not as powerful at DX12, it's also harder to find programmers for OpenGL than DirectX, due to DirectX being the standard for PC gaming.
Valve hater, Nintendo hater, Microsoft defender, AMD hater, Google Fiber hater, 4K lover, net neutrality lover.
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Rollo, I think gstanford wants you to eat crow.

You made all these claims back when the consoles launched and it is more than evident now that Sony has pulled away by a good margin and the efforts M$ has taken to catch up have been failing.

After a price drop and the removal of their eye in the living room.......
Sony sold 100,000 more ps4s between jan-feb than m$ sold consoles from jan-march. that is xbox360s and xbones combined, over a three month period vs the lone ps4 in its jan-feb sales.

You also know why M$ would combine Xbox 360 sales with xbone, to try to cover up the failure. It is something you should be chuckling at.
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(05-05-2015, 05:34 AM)RolloTheGreat Wrote:
(05-04-2015, 05:42 PM)gstanford Wrote: There is nothing that Direct3D 12 can do that OpenGL and Vulkan and OpenCL cannot.

What is more the part that runs off of OpenGL has twice the GPU firepower at its disposal compared the DirectX part (which is only hardware DX11.2, NOT DX12).

Yet mysteriously OpenGL is about as rare Obama supporters in corporate boardrooms.....

Bullshit! It is extensively used on console (PS2/3/4, Vita/PSP) and on mobile gaming platforms such as mobile phones and tablets. More developers use OpenGL daily than D3D.
Adam knew he should have bought a PC but Eve fell for the marketing hype.

Homeopathy is what happened when snake oil salesmen discovered that water is cheaper than snake oil.

The reason they call it the American Dream is because you have to be asleep to believe it. -- George Carlin
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(05-05-2015, 06:13 AM)ocre Wrote: Rollo, I think gstanford wants you to eat crow.

You made all these claims back when the consoles launched and it is more than evident now that Sony has pulled away by a good margin and the efforts M$ has taken to catch up have been failing.

After a price drop and the removal of their eye in the living room.......
Sony sold 100,000 more ps4s between jan-feb than m$ sold consoles from jan-march.  that is xbox360s and xbones combined, over a three month period vs the lone ps4 in its jan-feb sales.

You also know why M$ would combine Xbox 360 sales with xbone, to try to cover up the failure.  It is something you should be chuckling at.
I don't know that I ever said XBone would ever outsell PS4. (or that I'd care if it did)

I bought my son a XBone and a PS4 so he could game with anyone, which is how I think it should be with consoles. (they're pretty cheap)
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(05-05-2015, 09:03 AM)RolloTheGreat Wrote:
(05-05-2015, 06:13 AM)ocre Wrote: Rollo, I think gstanford wants you to eat crow.

You made all these claims back when the consoles launched and it is more than evident now that Sony has pulled away by a good margin and the efforts M$ has taken to catch up have been failing.

After a price drop and the removal of their eye in the living room.......
Sony sold 100,000 more ps4s between jan-feb than m$ sold consoles from jan-march. that is xbox360s and xbones combined, over a three month period vs the lone ps4 in its jan-feb sales.

You also know why M$ would combine Xbox 360 sales with xbone, to try to cover up the failure. It is something you should be chuckling at.
I don't know that I ever said XBone would ever outsell PS4. (or that I'd care if it did)

I bought my son a XBone and a PS4 so he could game with anyone, which is how I think it should be with consoles. (they're pretty cheap)

Are you trying to imply that he couldn't game with anyone on PS4?!

PS4 will have a larger pool of people to game with compared to XBONE simply because more people own the console.
Adam knew he should have bought a PC but Eve fell for the marketing hype.

Homeopathy is what happened when snake oil salesmen discovered that water is cheaper than snake oil.

The reason they call it the American Dream is because you have to be asleep to believe it. -- George Carlin
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(05-05-2015, 09:39 AM)gstanford Wrote: Are you trying to imply that he couldn't game with anyone on PS4?!

PS4 will have a larger pool of people to game with compared to XBONE simply because more people own the console.

You have to remember that worldwide sales aren't necessarily relevant in the US, where the XBone has always sold more than it does in say, Tasmania.

AFAIK, my son has one friend he games with on the PS4, and that kid asked his parents to get him an XBone because it what most of their friends have.

Kids game for the social experience not to compare specs. (and in my sons case, when the argument about which is better comes up he just says he uses both)
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IMO the Wii U still has games that are more fun than the other consoles.
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(05-06-2015, 06:21 AM)SickBeast Wrote: IMO the Wii U still has games that are more fun than the other consoles.

I'll say this:

Graphics do not make the game.

I am re-playing "Undying" from 2001 now and really enjoying it.

My son plays plenty on Minecraft, Clash of Clans, and asked me to get him "The Neverhood" again.

It's not all about 1080p and high res textures.
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I've just finished replaying SiN from 1998. A much better game than Half-Life which was all anyone could talk about back then. Most gamers have belatedly come to the same conclusion as they got around to finally playing the game. NOLF 1, was another great game that was all but ignored at release but later acknowledged by gamers as a classic.

Anyhow it's not even about games for the XBONE. It's well known Gates wanted it to take over the loungeroom and if rumors are correct it is soon to become a glorified DVR.

http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2015/05/re...this-year/

Quote:The Xbox One underneath your TV set could soon replace your TiVo or other digital video recorder, according to a report from long-time, well-connected Microsoft watcher Paul Thurrott. In a post discussing the death of Windows Media Center on the PC, Thurrott cites unnamed sources that the Xbox One's live TV functionality will expand to include TV recording "most probably this year."

The report comes just a month after Microsoft announced an official tuner allowing the Xbox One to accept over-the-air broadcast signals through a USB connection. That device also comes with the ability to pause live TV for up to 30 minutes (though that content can't be saved long term) and to stream live programming to a tablet or phone via SmartGlass.

If Microsoft is indeed planning to roll out DVR capabilities on the Xbox One, we have to wonder why it took them so long. There's no technical reason that the Xbox One can't record TV signals coming in from the external HDMI passthrough and store them for later viewing on a portion of its 500GB hard drive or an external USB drive. Such a feature would certainly help differentiate the system from the competing PlayStation 4, which doesn't offer any live TV passthrough options.

What a frigging joke! Buy a gaming console, get a TV DVR instead! Probably for the best though as the GPU power of XBONE is totally inadequate for gaming.
Adam knew he should have bought a PC but Eve fell for the marketing hype.

Homeopathy is what happened when snake oil salesmen discovered that water is cheaper than snake oil.

The reason they call it the American Dream is because you have to be asleep to believe it. -- George Carlin
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Xbone continues to offer valuable functionality while PS4 keeps doing it's one trick, play a few more games at 1080p.

We use DVRs in America, Greg, a LOT. They cost money to buy or rent, so the XBone becomes a REALLY good deal at $349 with Halo AND DVR capability.

I'm impressed!
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Bullshit! The tuner will be for OTA signals, not cable signals and a $349 XBONE is a damn expensive DVR! Not to mention the tuner will cost money, M$ won't give it to current XBONE owners out of the goodness of their hearts (they already proved their stupidity by purchasing XBONE in the first place so they can be milked more yet).

The PS4 does its "one trick" exceedingly well, which is why it sells so well to consumers. It never pretended to be anything other than a gaming console (or a gold-plated DVR with spy cam posing as a console)

In any case M$ is simply desperately copying Sony's old idea's.

Playstation 3 owners have had the option of PlayTV since 2008 for OTA.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PlayTV
Adam knew he should have bought a PC but Eve fell for the marketing hype.

Homeopathy is what happened when snake oil salesmen discovered that water is cheaper than snake oil.

The reason they call it the American Dream is because you have to be asleep to believe it. -- George Carlin
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It doesn't matter if the tuner is free.

What matters is the XBone is ONE DEVICE that people can use for about anything you would want hooked up to your tv. DVR is the most important aspect of owning a tv, I don't know anyone who actually watches shows when they are actually playing. (except sports)

You totally over emphasize the value of PS4s 1080p advantage. Yes there are some games that are at higher res on PS4:

http://www.ign.com/wikis/xbox-one/PS4_vs...Framerates

Some dispute whether the few that are a slightly higher res even matter:

http://wccftech.com/ps4-1080p-xbox-900p-...nsole-war/

Quote:Sony ICE Team developers themselves claim that “anything above 720p isn’t necessarily a clear improvement.” To make it even more plausible, here is a screenshot comparison between PlayStation 4 1080p and Xbox One 900p versions of some major triple A games, courtesy of Reddit user Emmerin. You can see in the Battlefield 4 screenshots below that 720p is clearly unattractive compared to 1080p, but while there are some minor differences in most cases, 900p is still perfectly acceptable, and can’t be taken as anything that looks ugly.

Unfortunately the only relevant advantage PS4 has is only available in three cities.

http://www.playstationnetwork.com/vue/ho...ontent=Vue

That "would" be worth the accolades you heap on the PS4, because for someone like me this would be $70/mo savings on my tv bill. (and has the channels I care about)

Saving $840 a year on my tv would have me buying PS4s as cable boxes, and not gaming with them at all.

THAT is a big deal Greg. NOT "Wah. PS4 runs these 30% of games at 1080p instead of 900p Wah."

$840 a year is money you can actually do something worthwhile with. (take your wife out to dinner 8X...take your family on a long holiday weekend....buy a couple good fishing rods...buy a decent gun....in two years buy a tv.....etc)
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Once again, the TV tuner is OTA (over the air - roof antenna/rabbit ears) only. It is NOT a cable tuner and cable is how most americans get their tv (followed by netflix and OTA relegated to the poor and cable cutters).

I can assure you the tuner won't be free.

Higher resolution is definitely an advantage, but, you can do other things with the extra GPU power also, like keep the same resolution as XBONE but include a ton more effects/rendered objects. Extra GPU power is never useless. Extra GPU power is something the XBONE doesn't have

The Sony TV service you linked, is another thing XBONE doesn't have (despite its DVR pretensions) even if it is only available in 3 cities at present.

Personally, I think you americans are off your rockers paying to watch TV. I don't pay a cent to watch anything here in Australia with our OTA network. Yes there are pay TV options, I'd never use them. I only use the TV as a TV at news time, the rest of the time it is a PC monitor or a PS3/Xbox 360 display device. TV shows and movies bore me to death (except for a rare documentary or two).
Adam knew he should have bought a PC but Eve fell for the marketing hype.

Homeopathy is what happened when snake oil salesmen discovered that water is cheaper than snake oil.

The reason they call it the American Dream is because you have to be asleep to believe it. -- George Carlin
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Times are changing here, people are tired of paying $100+ a month for cable/dish:

http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/pers.../14513495/

Even when you have the money, what you get for it seems lacking.
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Even if it's ota only that is still useful imo. I can get 30 channels ota where I live and the quality is better than cable because it's uncompressed.
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