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GM200/Titan X announced with slow DP
#1
Tongue 
[Image: tdzmIb3.png]

Like I speculated in the old forum, Big Maxwell, unlike Big Kepler/Fermi, is not strong in DP: only 0,2 TFlops.
One more for the record, following my speculation that Maxwell would be most if not all done in 28nm, several months before the release of GM204. As usual, I was faced at the time with some fierce opposition to this idea, never mind how many arguments and facts I thrown at it.

On a side note, the keynote is very very interesting. Lots of information about Pascal and performance estimates: 10x faster than Maxwell!!

http://www.ustream.tv/channel/gpu-techno...rence-2015
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#2
There's no way that Pascal will be 10x faster outside of a few custom made niche apps that support some type of new functionality. That's pure hype IMO.

The Titan X looks really good though. nVidia just keeps pumping out new technology while AMD has been stagnant for some time now. I hope that Captain Jack can bring prices down.
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#3
Was it 10X faster, per watt? Was there a qualifier like that? Just got home from work and now I can watch it in it's entirety.
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#4
(03-18-2015, 03:13 AM)BjorgenFjords Wrote: Was it 10X faster, per watt? Was there a qualifier like that? Just got home from work and now I can watch it in it's entirety.

It was, as Jen put it, "CEO Math". He just took some specs and play around with the number. In reality it should have 2x perf/watt of Maxwell + 4x FP16 performance + 3x memory bandwidth of Maxwell. Tegra X1 was the first step towards stronger FP16 performance. Its built for deep neural networks that use FP16 more than FP32/FP64. Anandtech is speculating as well that GK110 might have been the last time we saw a big nVIDIA chip sharing Compute (FP64) and Graphic duties. From now on nVIDIA might make FP64 processors exclusively for Compute.
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#5
(03-17-2015, 11:30 PM)Picao84 Wrote: Like I speculated in the old forum, Big Maxwell, unlike Big Kepler/Fermi, is not strong in DP: only 0,2 TFlops.
One more for the record, following my speculation that Maxwell would be most if not all done in 28nm, several months before the release of GM204. As usual, I was faced at the time with some fierce opposition to this idea, never mind how many arguments and facts I thrown at it.

On a side note, the keynote is very very interesting. Lots of information about Pascal and performance estimates: 10x faster than Maxwell!!

http://www.ustream.tv/channel/gpu-techno...rence-2015

You are spouting bullshit here, Picao84!

You cannot infer GM200's true FP64 capabilities from Titan X, since they are artificially limited to 1/32 of the GPU's true capabilities in Titan X, just like regular consumer geforces.

It does make you wonder precisely what the point of Titan is nowadays though, they used to limit Titan to 1/3 the true fp64 rate and tout the card as something a small/home developer would like since you could use it like a slower Quadro/Tesla or a geforce. The 1/32 fp64 rate makes it no better than any other garden variety geforce for CUDA though.

I guess the true purpose of Titan nowadays is to separate fools from their money (just like Intels x99).
Adam knew he should have bought a PC but Eve fell for the marketing hype.

Homeopathy is what happened when snake oil salesmen discovered that water is cheaper than snake oil.

The reason they call it the American Dream is because you have to be asleep to believe it. -- George Carlin
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#6
The Titan X has value as a pure gaming card. I'm sure it can come pretty close to keeping up with a pair of GTX 970s which wouldn't cost much less.
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#7
2 970s at $330 = $660. Titan X = $999. Tom Cruise Laughing.gif
Valve hater, Nintendo hater, Microsoft defender, AMD hater, Google Fiber hater, 4K lover, net neutrality lover.
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#8
(03-18-2015, 06:36 AM)SteelCrysis Wrote: 2 970s at $330 = $660.  Titan X = $999.  Tom Cruise Laughing.gif

Yeah, what I was thinking. Sick must be some kind of balla if >$300 difference is "wouldn't cost much less."



I'm loving everything I'm seeing for Titan X except the price. Is peaking my interest more towards GTX 980 Ti, whatever that may be, but frankly at this point SLI 970/CFX 290's looks like might be the better deal until we see what 390X can/can't do.

In the last two year the chips went:
GF110 >> GK110 >> GM200
$550 >> $700 >> $1000

It makes me sad :( My poor wallet.
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#9
(03-18-2015, 06:29 AM)SickBeast Wrote: The Titan X has value as a pure gaming card.  I'm sure it can come pretty close to keeping up with a pair of GTX 970s which wouldn't cost much less.

Huh?! Two MSI GTX970s are $628 on newegg right now. (and you can get two of most models for under $700)
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#10
I would have to see benchmarks but a 30 percent premium sounds worth it to me so long as the performance is similar. SLI is not ideal. 12gb of vram is a nice added bonus as well. By the way, the GTX 970s are much more expensive in Canada which is why I made that comment. I did not realize that they were so cheap in the US.
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#11
(03-18-2015, 06:29 AM)SickBeast Wrote: The Titan X has value as a pure gaming card.  I'm sure it can come pretty close to keeping up with a pair of GTX 970s which wouldn't cost much less.

There will inevitably be a Geforce 985 or 990 (or some number) that is basically a cheaper Titan, just like 780/ti.

and like SteelCrysis pointed out, 2x GTX 970 doesn't cost you anywhere close to $999 US.
Adam knew he should have bought a PC but Eve fell for the marketing hype.

Homeopathy is what happened when snake oil salesmen discovered that water is cheaper than snake oil.

The reason they call it the American Dream is because you have to be asleep to believe it. -- George Carlin
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#12
(03-18-2015, 05:51 AM)gstanford Wrote:
(03-17-2015, 11:30 PM)Picao84 Wrote: Like I speculated in the old forum, Big Maxwell, unlike Big Kepler/Fermi, is not strong in DP: only 0,2 TFlops.
One more for the record, following my speculation that Maxwell would be most if not all done in 28nm, several months before the release of GM204. As usual, I was faced at the time with some fierce opposition to this idea, never mind how many arguments and facts I thrown at it.

On a side note, the keynote is very very interesting. Lots of information about Pascal and performance estimates: 10x faster than Maxwell!!

http://www.ustream.tv/channel/gpu-techno...rence-2015

You are spouting bullshit here, Picao84!

You cannot infer GM200's true FP64 capabilities from Titan X, since they are artificially limited to 1/32 of the GPU's true capabilities in Titan X, just like regular consumer geforces.

It does make you wonder precisely what the point of Titan is nowadays though, they used to limit Titan to 1/3 the true fp64 rate and tout the card as something a small/home developer would like since you could use it like a slower Quadro/Tesla or a geforce. The 1/32 fp64 rate makes it no better than any other garden variety geforce for CUDA though.

I guess the true purpose of Titan nowadays is to separate fools from their money (just like Intels x99).

*sigh* No I'm not. Maximum of GM200 is really 1:32 DP. Before lashing out at me go see the reviews with technical information on them like Anandtech. Why do you think they are speculating GK110 was the last time we have seen a big nVIDIA GPU share gaming and DP capabilities? Even nVIDIA themselves said that for compute there is GK210. I wont quote now cause I'm on the mobile phone, but if you don't believe me go check for yourself. Plus nVIDIA is now betting heavily in deep neutral networks, which don't need FP64 and are happy with FP16 and FP32. Those are in fact big news for gaming as well. Less space occupied by DP that can be b used for gaming functions. GM200 is already a sign off that shift.



(03-18-2015, 06:44 AM)railven Wrote:
(03-18-2015, 06:36 AM)SteelCrysis Wrote: 2 970s at $330 = $660.  Titan X = $999.  Tom Cruise Laughing.gif

Yeah, what I was thinking. Sick must be some kind of balla if >$300 difference is "wouldn't cost much less."



I'm loving everything I'm seeing for Titan X except the price. Is peaking my interest more towards GTX 980 Ti, whatever that may be, but frankly at this point SLI 970/CFX 290's looks like might be the better deal until we see what 390X can/can't do.

In the last two year the chips went:
GF110 >> GK110 >> GM200
$550 >> $700 >> $1000

It makes me sad :( My poor wallet.

Yeah.. But nothing changes if nVIDIA has a monopoly right? Right? *rolls eyes* Happening in front of our eyes but still some deny it. Incredible.
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#13
(03-18-2015, 03:26 PM)Picao84 Wrote:
(03-18-2015, 05:51 AM)gstanford Wrote:
(03-17-2015, 11:30 PM)Picao84 Wrote: Like I speculated in the old forum, Big Maxwell, unlike Big Kepler/Fermi, is not strong in DP: only 0,2 TFlops.
One more for the record, following my speculation that Maxwell would be most if not all done in 28nm, several months before the release of GM204. As usual, I was faced at the time with some fierce opposition to this idea, never mind how many arguments and facts I thrown at it.

On a side note, the keynote is very very interesting. Lots of information about Pascal and performance estimates: 10x faster than Maxwell!!

http://www.ustream.tv/channel/gpu-techno...rence-2015

You are spouting bullshit here, Picao84!

You cannot infer GM200's true FP64 capabilities from Titan X, since they are artificially limited to 1/32 of the GPU's true capabilities in Titan X, just like regular consumer geforces.

It does make you wonder precisely what the point of Titan is nowadays though, they used to limit Titan to 1/3 the true fp64 rate and tout the card as something a small/home developer would like since you could use it like a slower Quadro/Tesla or a geforce.  The 1/32 fp64 rate makes it no better than any other garden variety geforce for CUDA though.

I guess the true purpose of Titan nowadays is to separate fools from their money (just like Intels x99).

*sigh* No I'm not. Before lashing out at me go see the reviews with technical information on them like Anandtech. Even nVIDIA themselves said that for compute there is GK210. I wont quote now cause I'm on the mobile phone, but if you don't believe me go check for yourself.
Yes, I have read the technical information. The 1/32 fp64 is an artificial limitation, imposed upon titan so as not to encroach upon Quadro's and Tesla's based upon the same chip that will have a 1/3 fp64 rate.
Adam knew he should have bought a PC but Eve fell for the marketing hype.

Homeopathy is what happened when snake oil salesmen discovered that water is cheaper than snake oil.

The reason they call it the American Dream is because you have to be asleep to believe it. -- George Carlin
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#14
(03-18-2015, 03:38 PM)gstanford Wrote:
(03-18-2015, 03:26 PM)Picao84 Wrote:
(03-18-2015, 05:51 AM)gstanford Wrote:
(03-17-2015, 11:30 PM)Picao84 Wrote: Like I speculated in the old forum, Big Maxwell, unlike Big Kepler/Fermi, is not strong in DP: only 0,2 TFlops.
One more for the record, following my speculation that Maxwell would be most if not all done in 28nm, several months before the release of GM204. As usual, I was faced at the time with some fierce opposition to this idea, never mind how many arguments and facts I thrown at it.

On a side note, the keynote is very very interesting. Lots of information about Pascal and performance estimates: 10x faster than Maxwell!!

http://www.ustream.tv/channel/gpu-techno...rence-2015

You are spouting bullshit here, Picao84!

You cannot infer GM200's true FP64 capabilities from Titan X, since they are artificially limited to 1/32 of the GPU's true capabilities in Titan X, just like regular consumer geforces.

It does make you wonder precisely what the point of Titan is nowadays though, they used to limit Titan to 1/3 the true fp64 rate and tout the card as something a small/home developer would like since you could use it like a slower Quadro/Tesla or a geforce.  The 1/32 fp64 rate makes it no better than any other garden variety geforce for CUDA though.

I guess the true purpose of Titan nowadays is to separate fools from their money (just like Intels x99).

*sigh* No I'm not. Before lashing out at me go see the reviews with technical information on them like Anandtech. Even nVIDIA themselves said that for compute there is GK210. I wont quote now cause I'm on the mobile phone, but if you don't believe me go check for yourself.
Yes, I have read the technical information.  The 1/32 fp64 is an artificial limitation, imposed upon titan so as not to encroach upon Quadro's and Tesla's based upon the same chip that will have a 1/3 fp64 rate.

No it's not!!! Quote then where you read that bullshit!

Here is from Anandtech:

"For GM200 NVIDIA’s path of choice has been to divorce graphics from high performance FP64 compute. Big Kepler was a graphics powerhouse in its own right, but it also spent quite a bit of die area on FP64 CUDA cores and some other compute-centric functionality. This allowed NVIDIA to use a single GPU across the entire spectrum – GeForce, Quadro, and Tesla – but it also meant that GK110 was a bit jack-of-all-trades. Consequently when faced with another round of 28nm chips and intent on spending their Maxwell power savings on more graphics resources (ala GM204), NVIDIA built a big graphics GPU. Big Maxwell is not the successor to Big Kepler, but rather it’s a really (really) big version of GM204.

GM200 is 601mm2 of graphics, and this is what makes it remarkable. There are no special compute features here that only Tesla and Quadro users will tap into (save perhaps ECC), rather it really is GM204 with 50% more GPU. This means we’re looking at the same SMMs as on GM204, featuring 128 FP32 CUDA cores per SMM, a 512Kbit register file, and just 4 FP64 ALUs per SMM, leading to a puny native FP64 rate of just 1/32. As a result, all of that space in GK110 occupied by FP64 ALUs and other compute hardware – and NVIDIA won’t reveal quite how much space that was – has been reinvested in FP32 ALUs and other graphics-centric hardware."

Note that it says GM200 and not Titan Wink

From Tech Report:

"The GM200—and by extension, the Titan X—differs from past full-sized Nvidia GPUs in one key respect, though. This chip is made almost purely for gaming and graphics; its support for double-precision floating-point math is severely limited. Double-precision calculations happen at only 1/32nd of the single-precision rate.

For gamers, that's welcome news. I'm happy to see Nvidia committing the resources to build a big chip whose primary mission in life is graphics, and this choice means the GM200 can pack in more resources to help pump out the eye candy."

How about you learn to read then?
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#15
http://www.anandtech.com/show/9059/the-n...n-x-review

[Image: Titan_Compare.jpg]

Quote:Big Maxwell is not the successor to Big Kepler, but rather it’s a really (really) big version of GM204.
Adam knew he should have bought a PC but Eve fell for the marketing hype.

Homeopathy is what happened when snake oil salesmen discovered that water is cheaper than snake oil.

The reason they call it the American Dream is because you have to be asleep to believe it. -- George Carlin
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#16
(03-18-2015, 03:49 PM)gstanford Wrote: http://www.anandtech.com/show/9059/the-n...n-x-review

[Image: Titan_Compare.jpg]

Quote:Big Maxwell is not the successor to Big Kepler, but rather it’s a really (really) big version of GM204.

Can you read properly???? Why do you think he is saying that GM200 is not a successor of GK110? Because it has slow DP! He is not saying Titan vs Titan X. He is saying Big Kepler vs Big Maxwell! The chip is itself limited to 1:32DP, Titan X or otherwise!
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#17
Sure can. Look at the FP64 column, first left - 1/32 FP32
Adam knew he should have bought a PC but Eve fell for the marketing hype.

Homeopathy is what happened when snake oil salesmen discovered that water is cheaper than snake oil.

The reason they call it the American Dream is because you have to be asleep to believe it. -- George Carlin
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#18
(03-18-2015, 03:51 PM)gstanford Wrote: Sure can.  Look at the FP64 column, first left - 1/32 FP32

And where does that negate what I said? Slow DP! It's not an artificial limitation!
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#19
Of course it is an artificial limitation. They can clock FP64 at ratios other than 1/32 if they want. Pro cards are usually clocked at 1/3 fp32 rate.

They do this with scheduler timing.
Adam knew he should have bought a PC but Eve fell for the marketing hype.

Homeopathy is what happened when snake oil salesmen discovered that water is cheaper than snake oil.

The reason they call it the American Dream is because you have to be asleep to believe it. -- George Carlin
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#20
(03-18-2015, 03:57 PM)gstanford Wrote: Of course it is an artificial limitation. They can clock FP64 at ratios other than 1/32 if they want. Pro cards are usually clocked at 1/3 fp32 rate.

They do this with scheduler timing.

It's not about the clock! It's about the number of FP64 units!

In the same review:

"This means we’re looking at the same SMMs as on GM204, featuring 128 FP32 CUDA cores per SMM, a 512Kbit register file, and just 4 FP64 ALUs per SMM, leading to a puny native FP64 rate of just 1/32. As a result, all of that space in GK110 occupied by FP64 ALUs and other compute hardware – and NVIDIA won’t reveal quite how much space that was – has been reinvested in FP32 ALUs and other graphics-centric hardware."

I must be debating with a wall here.. Or you are just trolling.
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#21
You can increase FP64 performance purely by timing. How else do you imagine that a Quadro/Tesla based on GK104 differentiates itself from a geforce based on GK104. The number of FP64 units per SM stays the same, the scheduler timing is what varies!

Are you going to tell us geforce GK104's are just as powerful as Quadro/Tesla GK104's when using GK104?!
Adam knew he should have bought a PC but Eve fell for the marketing hype.

Homeopathy is what happened when snake oil salesmen discovered that water is cheaper than snake oil.

The reason they call it the American Dream is because you have to be asleep to believe it. -- George Carlin
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#22
(03-18-2015, 04:02 PM)gstanford Wrote: You can increase FP64 performance purely by timing.  How else do you imagine that a Quadro/Tesla based on GK104 differentiates itself from a geforce based on GK104.  The number of FP64 units per SM stays the same, the scheduler timing is what varies!

Are you going to tell us geforce GK104's are just as powerful as Quadro/Tesla GK104's when using GK104?!

There are no strong DP GK104 Teslas! GK104 was used in strong SP Teslas, not DP!!!! DP was always the realm of GK110 (and now GK210). The FP64 units dictate the DP power, not the the timing! You have no idea what you are talking about!

Here: http://www.nvidia.com/content/tesla/pdf/...asheet.pdf

A K10 GK104 Tesla has the wonderful performance of 0.19 TFlops FP64. *rolls eyes*
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#23
I could use big kepler as another example or any fermi. The principle is exactly the same for all of them.

Per SM, geforce, Quadro, Telsa all have the same units available to them. The difference with fp64 between geforce and the professional products is the scheduling ratio.

The first Titan also had its fp64 scheduling ratio configured like a pro product. nvidia has now reneged on that and given Titan owners consumer geforce fp64 scheduling ratios instead.
Adam knew he should have bought a PC but Eve fell for the marketing hype.

Homeopathy is what happened when snake oil salesmen discovered that water is cheaper than snake oil.

The reason they call it the American Dream is because you have to be asleep to believe it. -- George Carlin
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#24
(03-18-2015, 04:21 PM)gstanford Wrote: I could use big kepler as another example or any fermi.  The principle is exactly the same for all of them.

Per SM, geforce, Quadro, Telsa all have the same units available to them.  The difference with fp64 between geforce and the professional products is the scheduling ratio.

The first Titan also had its fp64 scheduling ratio configured like a pro product.  nvidia has now reneged on that and given Titan owners consumer geforce fp64 scheduling ratios instead.

Look this is very simple:

GK104 - few DP units. GeForce has 100% of Tesla DP performance.
GK110 - many DP units. GeForce non-Titan has less DP performance because most DP units are disabled/fused. Nothing to do with clocking.

GM204 - few DP units. GeForce has 100% of Tesla DP performance (so far no Tesla has shown up with GM204 though).
GM200 - few DP units. NO DP TESLA!!!! DP is exclusively the realm of GK210 on Tesla K80.

You know I'm right and you are just arguing for the same of it. You just hate to be wrong. After all every single review is saying the same thing: GM200 is a gaming oriented GPU that traded FP64 performance for FP32. That has nothing to do with clocking but everything to do with the GPU structure. Unless you want to tell me that you know better than nVIDIA's own reviewer guide.
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#25
What?! GTX780 and 780 Ti have just as many fp64 units in one SM as a quadro/tesla does. Yes, 780/Ti get SMX's fused off but that isn't where the fp64 differential comes from, it arises primarily from the 1/32 consumer vs 1/3 pro scheduling ratio!
Adam knew he should have bought a PC but Eve fell for the marketing hype.

Homeopathy is what happened when snake oil salesmen discovered that water is cheaper than snake oil.

The reason they call it the American Dream is because you have to be asleep to believe it. -- George Carlin
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#26
From Anandtech:

"For that reason I wouldn’t be too surprised if we a Tesla card using it aimed at FP32 users such the oil & gas industry – something NVIDIA has done once before with the Tesla K10 – but you won’t be seeing GM200 in the successor to Tesla K40."

Tesla K40 is GK110 based.

(03-18-2015, 04:36 PM)gstanford Wrote: What?! GTX780 and 780 Ti have just as many fp64 units in one SM as a quadro/tesla does. Yes, 780/Ti get SMX's fused off but that isn't where the fp64 differential comes from, it arises primarily from the 1/32 consumer vs 1/3 pro scheduling ratio!

Nooooooo! That's precisely where the 1/32 ratio comes from! The FP64 ALU units are responsible for... DP performance! If you have less of them enabled, you have less DP performance!

What do you think 1:32 ratio means??? It means that there is 1 FP64 unit per 32 FP32 units! A ratio of 1:3 means there is 1 FP64 unit per 3 FP32 units! That's what it means. Nothing about scheduling!
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#27
Who knows what future Quadro's and Tesla's might or might not be based off of?

Not me, certainly. And not you either unless you work for nvidia in that area.

Having said that my gut feeling has always been that nvidia would skip over Big Maxwell to concentrate on Pascal and Volta.

Big Volta in particular is required for the upcoming supercomputer nvidia is helping to build.
Adam knew he should have bought a PC but Eve fell for the marketing hype.

Homeopathy is what happened when snake oil salesmen discovered that water is cheaper than snake oil.

The reason they call it the American Dream is because you have to be asleep to believe it. -- George Carlin
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#28
(03-18-2015, 04:44 PM)gstanford Wrote: Who knows what future Quadro's and Tesla's might or might not be based off of?

Not me, certainly.  And not you either unless you work for nvidia in that area.

Having said that my gut feeling has always been that nvidia would skip over Big Maxwell to concentrate on Pascal and Volta.

Big Volta in particular is required for the upcoming supercomputer nvidia is helping to build.

The first paragraph was not mine but Anandtech. Forgot to identify.

So typical of you to try and change the subject when you know are wrong, instead of admiting it :p Every time I have a discussion with you I picture you as an angry Donald Duck, don't know why :p
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#29
I'm not wrong. and I'm certainly no angry Donald Duck, but I'm beginning to suspect you may be Daffy Duck based on how you think FP64 differs between consumer and pro products of the same GPU die.....
Adam knew he should have bought a PC but Eve fell for the marketing hype.

Homeopathy is what happened when snake oil salesmen discovered that water is cheaper than snake oil.

The reason they call it the American Dream is because you have to be asleep to believe it. -- George Carlin
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#30
(03-18-2015, 03:26 PM)Picao84 Wrote: Yeah.. But nothing changes if nVIDIA has a monopoly right? Right? *rolls eyes* Happening in front of our eyes but still some deny it. Incredible.

Ten years ago the 7800GTX 512 launched with a $700 MSRP, and people were paying $800-$900 for them at etailers.

Nvidia has been selling expensive gaming cards to those who will buy them for a long time. They also sell cards everyone can afford, and those who wish those levels of performance at reasonable prices just need to wait a year.

Nvidia can't exist selling $1000 parts, you mistake them wisely taking the early adopter toll from those who will pay it for monopoly pricing trends.
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#31
(03-18-2015, 04:50 PM)gstanford Wrote: I'm not wrong.  and I'm certainly no angry Donald Duck, but I'm beginning to suspect you may be Daffy Duck based on how you think FP64 differs between consumer and pro products of the same GPU die.....

No I'm not wrong. FP64 units do matter. They are disabled pretty much in the same way a GTX970 has 384 FP32 units disabled to differentiate it from a GTX980. A GeForce GTX780Ti has only 90 (2880/32) out of the 960 (2880/3) FP64 units enabled on a Tesla K40.

The calculation of theoretical performance of NVIDIA GPUs goes along this: Units * Clock * 2 (nVIDIA GPUs can process two instructions per clock).

Example:
GK110 Tesla K40
Single precision - 2880 * 0.745 * 2 = ~ 4.29 TF
Double precision - 960 * 0,745 * 2 = ~ 1,43 TF
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#32
You are cracked.

You cannot fuse off parts in an SMX. You can disable an entire SMX or more. 780 Ti has all 960 DP units (64 per SMX) that pro GK110 dies do.

The difference lies in the rate at which the GPU's scheduler dispatches work to those units.
Adam knew he should have bought a PC but Eve fell for the marketing hype.

Homeopathy is what happened when snake oil salesmen discovered that water is cheaper than snake oil.

The reason they call it the American Dream is because you have to be asleep to believe it. -- George Carlin
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#33
(03-18-2015, 06:00 PM)gstanford Wrote: You are cracked.

You cannot fuse off parts in an SMX.  You can disable an entire SMX or more.  780 Ti has all 960 DP units (64 per SMX) that pro GK110 dies do.

The difference lies in the rate at which the GPU's scheduler dispatches work to those units.

I know Wink
You just took my bait and contradicted yourself. If the units are not there, just like they aren't in GM200 (that's a fact!!), how can the scheduler dispatch to them? Therefore FP64 units are ESSENTIAL for Double Precision, unlike you have been saying all along. GM200 only has 4 FP64 units per SM and that's a fact! The scheduler cannot get FP64 units out of thin air, therefore the 1/32 rate of GM200 is not an artificial limitation. It's physical, the chip cannot do more! End of story!
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#34
Shocked 
:s Huh
[Image: clock_22.gif~c200]
Adam knew he should have bought a PC but Eve fell for the marketing hype.

Homeopathy is what happened when snake oil salesmen discovered that water is cheaper than snake oil.

The reason they call it the American Dream is because you have to be asleep to believe it. -- George Carlin
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#35
It's a safe bet that since no actual FACTUAL proof whether Big Maxwell is artificially gimped that neither of you truly know. Just conjecture and each of you can't take the other being right. So.... Stop.
Nvidia can probably do anything they want with the same hardware across GeForce, Quadro, Tesla. All via software.
So guys, it's really not that important. Titan X is a gamers card. Leave it at that.
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#36
You are correct, it is via software.  The GPU instruction scheduler simply has the rate it dispatches FP64 instructions reprogrammed.

There is an architectural overview of Fermi or Kepler out there on the 'net that explains it.  Can't be bothered tracking it down at the moment - too busy gaming for now.
Adam knew he should have bought a PC but Eve fell for the marketing hype.

Homeopathy is what happened when snake oil salesmen discovered that water is cheaper than snake oil.

The reason they call it the American Dream is because you have to be asleep to believe it. -- George Carlin
Reply
#37
(03-18-2015, 07:53 PM)BjorgenFjords Wrote: It's a safe bet that since no actual FACTUAL proof whether Big Maxwell is artificially gimped that neither of you truly know. Just conjecture and each of you can't take the other being right. So.... Stop.
Nvidia can probably do anything they want with the same hardware across GeForce, Quadro, Tesla. All via software.
So guys, it's really not that important. Titan X is a gamers card. Leave it at that.

What's interesting to me about all the "DAAAAAAMMMNNNNN Eeeen-VE-DE-AA for milking profits from honest gaming fans!" threads is:

What would you prefer?

An AMD like situation where the company is always one step ahead of the Grim Reaper, low on R&D funds, low on staff, long time between releases and corners cut like the leftover HSFs on the 290 reference models?

Or making big money and putting out nice parts pretty regularly?

I'm sure some internet pundits "who could surely do it better" will say "But tRollo, somewhere between the profiteering and the flirting with bankruptcy is a happy medium where they make a fair profit and we get cards!".

To such naivete' I can only respond:

Sorry, Nvidia exists to take as much of your money as they can by any legal means. They are not your special friends, they are not concerned with anything but your wallet. AMD would do the same thing if they could.
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#38
(03-18-2015, 07:53 PM)BjorgenFjords Wrote: It's a safe bet that since no actual FACTUAL proof whether Big Maxwell is artificially gimped that neither of you truly know. Just conjecture and each of you can't take the other being right. So.... Stop.
Nvidia can probably do anything they want with the same hardware across GeForce, Quadro, Tesla. All via software.
So guys, it's really not that important. Titan X is a gamers card. Leave it at that.

There is enough FACTUAL proof: the reviewers guide followed by every single reviewer. They all explain the GM200 chip, just like they explained every single GPU before, whether a full chip or not. Why would nVIDIA lie about the quantity of FP64 units? Because they very explicitly said that there are 4 units per SM, down from the 64 on GK110. What gstandford can't seem to get around is that less FP64 units = reduced double precision performance. It's basic math:

4 units * 24 SM = 96
3072 cores / 96 = 32

This where nVIDIA gets their 1:32 rate from. Therefore GM200 cannot go over that rate. It's physically limited. Unless nVIDIA deliberately lied, which I don't believe. Giving that die size increased only 9% and they had to include things like double the ROP count of GK110, double the cache of GK110, among others, I tend to believe that trade off was needed.

(03-18-2015, 11:18 PM)RolloTheGreat Wrote:
(03-18-2015, 07:53 PM)BjorgenFjords Wrote: It's a safe bet that since no actual FACTUAL proof whether Big Maxwell is artificially gimped that neither of you truly know. Just conjecture and each of you can't take the other being right. So.... Stop.
Nvidia can probably do anything they want with the same hardware across GeForce, Quadro, Tesla. All via software.
So guys, it's really not that important. Titan X is a gamers card. Leave it at that.

What's interesting to me about all the "DAAAAAAMMMNNNNN Eeeen-VE-DE-AA for milking profits from honest gaming fans!" threads is:

What would you prefer?

An AMD like situation where the company is always one step ahead of the Grim Reaper, low on R&D funds, low on staff, long time between releases and corners cut like the leftover HSFs on the 290 reference models?

Or making big money and putting out nice parts pretty regularly?

I'm sure some internet pundits "who could surely do it better" will say "But tRollo, somewhere between the profiteering and the flirting with bankruptcy is a happy medium where they make a fair profit and we get cards!".

To such naivete' I can only respond:

Sorry, Nvidia exists to take as much of your money as they can by any legal means. They are not your special friends, they are not concerned with anything but your wallet. AMD would do the same thing if they could.

You cannot say that and still say that nVIDIA having a monopoly is indifferent. It's all fine to follow nVIDIA logic as a company. But you cannot say that the status quo is not changed at all with a monopoly. Its already changing. You prefer like that? That's your stance. What you cannot say, for the third time, is that the price equilibrium that exists/existed does not change.
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#39
My last 3 nvidia cards (460/670/970) have been some of the most reasonably priced I've ever purchased from nvidia, especially given the performance on offer.

Same with my 2600K and 4790K's

The value on offer with these blows periods where nvidia and ATi or AMD and intel competed clean out of the water.
Adam knew he should have bought a PC but Eve fell for the marketing hype.

Homeopathy is what happened when snake oil salesmen discovered that water is cheaper than snake oil.

The reason they call it the American Dream is because you have to be asleep to believe it. -- George Carlin
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#40
(03-19-2015, 07:24 AM)gstanford Wrote: My last 3 nvidia cards (460/670/970) have been some of the most reasonably priced I've ever purchased from nvidia, especially given the performance on offer.

Same with my 2600K and 4790K's

The value on offer with these blows periods where nvidia and ATi or AMD and intel competed clean out of the water.

Don't be a fool Greg! intel is lulling you into a false sense of security since they became the only CPUs worth buying in 2006. They are waiting for the right moment to spring their monopoly trap!

It is only when there are only worthless used AMD CPUs for sale that the other shoe will drop and prices will go through the roof!

As long as there are a couple worthless new AMD CPUs to be had intels monopoly has held at bay by the fierce competition they represent.

BTW- I hear they're putting a new heatsink on the 2011 motherboard chipset they're still using. Nothing has happened in motherboard tech in the last 4 years- you'll be fine.
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