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Texas Governor Deploys National Guard To Stave Off Obama Takeover
#41
http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/cars.../21334373/

Scroll down in the article for the list. Notice the GMC Sierra (what I drive) down there at 211K sold in 2014? Those are fancier Silverados.

Add them to the Silverado total and you've got GM and Ford full size trucks selling more than double what ANY econobox sells. (triple most of them)

The system here works for most people.
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#42
Bullshit!

Add up the pickups + 4wd's (9 of them) then add up the small cars (11 of them) and you get:

small cars 3263988
pickup/4wd 3296393

a difference of just 32405 units sold.

There were 5 4WD units in the list. 1361165 total units. If you remove them from the pickups total and add them to the the small car total you get:

small cars/4wd 4625153
pickup 1935228

a difference of 2689925 units sold, in favor of cars, not pickups.
Adam knew he should have bought a PC but Eve fell for the marketing hype.

Homeopathy is what happened when snake oil salesmen discovered that water is cheaper than snake oil.

The reason they call it the American Dream is because you have to be asleep to believe it. -- George Carlin
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#43
(05-12-2015, 04:19 AM)RolloTheGreat Wrote: http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/cars.../21334373/

Scroll down in the article for the list. Notice the GMC Sierra (what I drive) down there at 211K sold in 2014? Those are fancier Silverados.

Add them to the Silverado total and you've got GM and Ford full size trucks selling more than double what ANY econobox sells. (triple most of them)


The system here works for most people.

Read what I said GR. GM and Ford's full size truck sold over 700,000 units, no car that sells for under $20K sold over 350,000 units. So we have two trucks that have MSRP starting at $26K selling 3X as many units as the crackerbox cars selling 200,000 units.

You won't see any $26K trucks on the road either, my 2015 Sierra sticker was over $44K and it's not even the high trim line, just middle trim with some normal options.

Your attempt to spin makes my point even better though: You compared the sales of the top 3 selling $30K+ vehicles (GM/Ford/RAM full size trucks) to 16 other vehicles and found the sales numbers pretty close.

That alone pretty much proves my point Greg- you compared THREE high priced trucks to SIXTEEN lower priced vehicles and the higher priced vehicles were close even though they cost more and were less than 1/5 the number of models.

Not to mention your numbers included cars that sell for over $20K. (E.G. the two highest sellers (Accord, Camry) start at $22K MSRP)

"Stack'em high and sell'em cheap" may have applied to English grocery stores in the 1960s, but in the US auto market, we demand the opposite of cheap because we want to drive decent vehicles.
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#44
Yes, I know what *YOU* said but the data in the article contradicted what both you and the article said. When you do the math small cars and trucks are very nearly equal in sales.

Yes, I know some of the cars are over 20K, but its your article, not mine. Find an article that talks about budget car sales.
Adam knew he should have bought a PC but Eve fell for the marketing hype.

Homeopathy is what happened when snake oil salesmen discovered that water is cheaper than snake oil.

The reason they call it the American Dream is because you have to be asleep to believe it. -- George Carlin
Reply
#45
(05-12-2015, 05:39 PM)gstanford Wrote: Yes, I know what *YOU* said but the data in the article contradicted what both you and the article said.  When you do the math small cars and trucks are very nearly equal in sales.

Yes, I know some of the cars are over 20K, but its your article, not mine.  Find an article that talks about budget car sales.

No actually the data in the article I linked to totally proved my point, you just don't know what real cars cost.

15 of the top 20 cars sold in America have an MSRP above $20,000.00.

EIGHT of the top 10 cars sold in America have a MSRP above $20,000.00.

AND the three top selling cars generally cost $35-$45K.

It's pretty obvious "stack'em high and sell'em cheap" is the exact opposite of what automakers do in the USA. Americans demand quality and comfort, we don't want cheap crap.
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#46
Like I said, get a list of top selling budget cars and we will see.

I doubt Toyota (Yaris, Corolla), Nissan (Versa, Sentra), KIA (Rio, Forte), Hyundai (Accent, Elantra),  Mazda (Mazda3), Mitsubishi (Mirage, Lancer, Outlander sport), Chevrolet (Spark, Sonic, Cruze), Ford (Fiesta, Focus), Volkswagen ( Golf), Honda (Fit), Dodge (Dart), Fiat (Fiat 500), Subaru (Impreza) and more bother offering budget cars for sale in America if nobody bothers to buy them (yeah, riiiiiiiight!).

Every car linked below has a starting price under $20,000 US.

http://www.toyota.com/yaris/

http://www.toyota.com/corolla/

http://www.nissanusa.com/cars/versa-seda....vlp.image

http://www.nissanusa.com/cars/sentra?nex....vlp.image

http://www.kia.com/us/en/vehicle/rio/201...tory=hello

http://www.kia.com/us/en/vehicle/forte/2...tory=hello

https://www.hyundaiusa.com/accent/index.aspx

https://www.hyundaiusa.com/elantra/index.aspx

http://www.mazdausa.com/MusaWeb/displayP...leCode=M3S

http://www.mitsubishicars.com/mirage

http://www.mitsubishicars.com/lancer

http://www.mitsubishicars.com/outlander-sport

http://www.chevrolet.com/spark-fuel-efficient-car.html

http://www.chevrolet.com/sonic-small-car.html

http://www.chevrolet.com/cruze-compact-car.html

http://www.ford.com/cars/fiesta/?gnav=header-cars

http://www.ford.com/cars/focus/?fmccmp=l...p-hp-focus

http://www.vw.com/models/golf/

http://automobiles.honda.com/fit/#~pcykDaETbGmQRF

http://www.dodge.com/en/dart/

http://www.fiatusa.com/en/500/

http://www.subaru.com/vehicles/impreza/index.html

Also a link to a budget car guide (though their idea of cheap is under $25,000 US)
http://www.gayot.com/lifestyle/automobil.../main.html
Adam knew he should have bought a PC but Eve fell for the marketing hype.

Homeopathy is what happened when snake oil salesmen discovered that water is cheaper than snake oil.

The reason they call it the American Dream is because you have to be asleep to believe it. -- George Carlin
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#47
(05-13-2015, 12:38 PM)gstanford Wrote: Like I said, get a list of top selling budget cars and we will see.

I doubt Toyota (Yaris, Corolla), Nissan (Versa, Sentra), KIA (Rio, Forte), Hyundai (Accent, Elantra),  Mazda (Mazda3), Mitsubishi (Mirage, Lancer, Outlander sport), Chevrolet (Spark, Sonic, Cruze), Ford (Fiesta, Focus), Volkswagen ( Golf), Honda (Fit), Dodge (Dart), Fiat (Fiat 500), Subaru (Impreza) and more bother offering budget cars for sale in America if nobody bothers to buy them (yeah, riiiiiiiight!).

What will we see Greg? That there are cheap cars for sale here? Never said there weren't.

What I DID say is that the "stack'em high sell'em cheap" strategy has little to do with marketing cars in the USA, because the most popular cars in the USA are not cheap cars.

You set the bar at $20K, I showed you 75% of the twenty highest selling models in the USA in 2014 have an MSRP over $20K.

Mitsubishi?! LOL- in 2014 they sold a whole 77K cars here, including their models that cost above $20K:

http://media.mitsubishicars.com/channels...32a1e9815e

That's a hair over 10% of what a Ford F150 or GM full size truck sold, and you've been crowing about PS4s at most 60% market share in the US as "total dominance".

I think you should edit your own name to be "Trollo", the only one "lying" or "twisting facts" here is you.

Yaris?!! LOL again- wowee- they sell about 12,000 of those cracker boxes a YEAR while Ford and GM sell 60,000 $35K+ trucks a MONTH.

http://www.goodcarbadcar.net/2011/01/toy...gures.html

You just don't understand people here Greg. The people who do buy the cars like Mirage or Yaris wish they could afford bigger, better cars. No one actually chooses that stuff out of preference.
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#48
"Highest selling models" means bugger all to low income earners. They couldn't give a flying fuck what the Jones's might be driving, they need reliable cars they can afford. There are more low income earners in the USA than there are high income earners.

There are a large number of cars in that list under $14,000 and a good 2/3's of them are under 18,000.

And I can assure you that when I bought my Yaris I did so out of preference and not out of necessity (and it sure as hell isn't a crackerbox - it's larger and better equipped than the Corolla it replaced).

As far as trucks go, Toyota will sell you one for just under $21,000.

http://www.toyota.com/tacoma/

Nissan will sell you a truck for just under $18,000

http://www.nissanusa.com/trucks/frontier....vlp.image

Chevrolet have one under $21,000

http://www.chevrolet.com/colorado-small-truck.html

All these cheap vehicles that apparently nobody would ever purchase for sale in the USA..... according to you...... What are those nutty car makers thinking?! Or perhaps it isn't the car makers that are nutty........
Adam knew he should have bought a PC but Eve fell for the marketing hype.

Homeopathy is what happened when snake oil salesmen discovered that water is cheaper than snake oil.

The reason they call it the American Dream is because you have to be asleep to believe it. -- George Carlin
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#49
(05-13-2015, 05:06 PM)gstanford Wrote: As far as trucks go, Toyota will sell you one for just under $21,000.  A $23,000 saving on yours.

http://www.toyota.com/tacoma/

Nissan will sell you a truck for just under $18,000

http://www.nissanusa.com/trucks/frontier....vlp.image

Chevrolet have one under $21,000

http://www.chevrolet.com/colorado-small-truck.html

All these cheap vehicles that apparently nobody would ever purchase for sale in the USA..... according to you......

Why don't you do the build on those trucks and see what you get for $20K Greg?

My truck has four real doors, a 350hp engine, a touch screen infotainment system, 20" wheels, bedliner, tonneau, remote start, power windows/locks, AWD, a fake leather/brushed aluminum dash, power seat, descent control, stabiltrak, dual zone climate control, tow pack, Z71 off road pack, and probably more I'm forgetting.

As my son says, "It's like a luxury car".

For $20K Toyota will build you a 4 cylinder, tiny truck with fold up back seats and an interierior that looks like it is out of the 1940s.

And again, never said "no one" buys them. I said what is marketed successfully here is cars above $20K.
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#50
Marketed successfully to high income idiots with too much disposable income and no brains perhaps....

Interior from the 1940's you say?

[Image: gallery-7.jpg]

[Image: HH1_G7P_R28gmds6.jpg&v=deg01&std=true&country=US]

[Image: 003-15TDI_FROeb036-large.jpg]
Adam knew he should have bought a PC but Eve fell for the marketing hype.

Homeopathy is what happened when snake oil salesmen discovered that water is cheaper than snake oil.

The reason they call it the American Dream is because you have to be asleep to believe it. -- George Carlin
Reply
#51
(05-13-2015, 05:38 PM)gstanford Wrote: Marketed successfully to high income idiots with too much disposable income and no brains perhaps....

Greg, in 2013 and back the base engine Silverado was selling 5%:

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2014...est-review

Quote:Chevrolet says it accounted for only 5 percent of sales, and most of those went into fleets

Now that they upgraded the V6 to a more reasonable 285hp/305ft lbs torque it's selling 20%, but that still means 80% of Americans are buying more well optioned trucks.

You're just way out of touch with how people in America buy cars.

You're just wrong.
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#52
(05-13-2015, 11:25 PM)RolloTheGreat Wrote:
(05-13-2015, 05:38 PM)gstanford Wrote: Marketed successfully to high income idiots with too much disposable income and no brains perhaps....

Greg, in 2013 and back the base engine Silverado was selling 5%:

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2014...est-review


Quote:Chevrolet says it accounted for only 5 percent of sales, and most of those went into fleets

Now that they upgraded the V6 to a more reasonable 285hp/305ft lbs torque it's selling 20%, but that still means 80% of Americans are buying more well optioned trucks.

You're just way out of touch with how people in America buy cars.

You're just wrong.
Rollo, are you sure that happened in 2013 and not 1940?!
Adam knew he should have bought a PC but Eve fell for the marketing hype.

Homeopathy is what happened when snake oil salesmen discovered that water is cheaper than snake oil.

The reason they call it the American Dream is because you have to be asleep to believe it. -- George Carlin
Reply
#53
(05-13-2015, 11:54 PM)gstanford Wrote: Rollo, are you sure that happened in 2013 and not 1940?!

Very sure. I bought one of those 2014 4.3l V6 Silverados because they had just raised the hp from 195 to 285, and the torque from 265 to 305. ( and on E85 it was 297/330)

The 2010 5.3l I had before that was 315hp/335 torque, so I figured it wouldn't be much different. Even my 2014 V6 Silverado had an MSRP over $40K though, because it was LT2/Z71/All Star Edition/with running boards, bedliner, and tonneau cover.

Would still have it if the dealer had not offered me a steal of a deal on a 2015 with a 5.3l a year later.
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#54
Gstanford,

I do not understand what you are even arguing.  you are just not making sense.  

Really, going back thru the pages, i am like..........huh?????

You said everyone in the USA are idiots cause the cars over 20 are more popular.  Let me quote that

Quote: high income idiots with too much disposable income and no brains perhaps....

So everyone who dont do as you do are idiots?

I have a completely different approach but you will never see me calling anyone else an idiot because they dont do as i do.
See, there is a huge used car market in the US as well. I havent bought a new car since the late 90s. This is because I dont get loans for vehicles, I buy mine with straight cash. 3-4 year old cars have depreciated significantly over a brand new model and a big stack of cash is hard for any dealer to let walk out of his lot.

I do many things different than others. I have learned life is sweater without debt. No matter what happens to me, my things are all paid for. I even started saving up to buy a house, all in cash. I am getting impatient though so I think i might actually get a loan for that in the end but you know what, i will have a massive down payment.

I can sit here and say that everyone who doesnt do as i do is an idiot......but seriously how can you think like that. Everyone is entitled to their own life and their own decisions. My way comes from the lessons i learned loosing it all. It is a force that drives me on my journey. They are my lessons and how i live my life as a result. Not everyone looses it all but those that do will be changed. For me, that change was a drive to do things even better the second time. Build an even stronger castle.
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#55
Interest rates are too low to concern me much, but our general strategy is we stayed in our middle class house. Either of us can afford house/cabin/cars, so its a good safety net.

Not a bad feeling if something goes haywire on the job front the worst that can happen is you go back to being middle class. I never minded being middle class.
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#56
(05-14-2015, 07:47 AM)ocre Wrote: Gstanford,

I do not understand what you are even arguing.  you are just not making sense.  

Really, going back thru the pages, i am like..........huh?????

You said everyone in the USA are idiots cause the cars over 20 are more popular.  Let me quote that


Quote: high income idiots with too much disposable income and no brains perhaps....

So everyone who dont do as you do are idiots?

I have a completely different approach but you will never see me calling anyone else an idiot because they dont do as i do.
See, there is a huge used car market in the US as well.   I havent bought a new car since the late 90s. This is because I dont get loans for vehicles, I buy mine with straight cash. 3-4 year old cars have depreciated significantly over a brand new model and a big stack of cash is hard for any dealer to let walk out of his lot.  

I do many things different than others.  I have learned life is sweater without debt.  No matter what happens to me, my things are all paid for.  I even started saving up to buy a house, all in cash.  I am getting impatient though so  I think i might actually get a loan for that in the end but you know what, i will have a massive down payment.  

I can sit here and say that everyone who doesnt do as i do is an idiot......but seriously how can you think like that.  Everyone is entitled to their own life and their own decisions.  My way comes from the lessons i learned loosing it all.  It is a force that drives me on my journey.  They are my lessons and how i live my life as a result.  Not everyone looses it all but those that do will be changed.  For me, that change was a drive to do things even better the second time.  Build an even stronger castle.

I agree about not going into debt. It is the biggest mistake people make, especially when they are deluding themselves that they are somehow climbing the social ladder and keeping up with the Jones's by doing so. When I bought my Yaris I bought it straight off of the showroom floor in cold hard cash. I'm totally debt free, don't owe anyone so much as 1 red razoo.

If a low income person/family needs a vehicle they can buy used like you did (I did that early on in life too) and take on somebody else's mechanical trouble, they can save a little more and get a new budget car, or they could fry their brain and let the likes of Rollo "successfully market" them into taking on a lot of debt to obtain a vehicle way more expensive than they actually need.

Only fools purchase expensive cars anyway, there is precious little else in this world outside of computer parts that loses its value faster than cars do.

(05-14-2015, 06:09 AM)RolloTheGreat Wrote:
(05-13-2015, 11:54 PM)gstanford Wrote: Rollo, are you sure that happened in 2013 and not 1940?!

Very sure. I bought one of those 2014 4.3l V6 Silverados because they had just raised the hp from 195 to 285, and the torque from 265 to 305. ( and on E85 it was 297/330)

The 2010 5.3l I had before that was 315hp/335 torque, so I figured it wouldn't be much different. Even my 2014 V6 Silverado had an MSRP over $40K though, because it was LT2/Z71/All Star Edition/with running boards, bedliner, and tonneau cover.

Would still have it if the dealer had not offered me a steal of a deal on a 2015 with a 5.3l a year later.

You were very sure that the pickup trucks I linked had 1940 style interiors too.......

Keep going. We will very quickly get to the point where nobody will believe one syllable of anything you utter/write and it will be all your own doing.
Adam knew he should have bought a PC but Eve fell for the marketing hype.

Homeopathy is what happened when snake oil salesmen discovered that water is cheaper than snake oil.

The reason they call it the American Dream is because you have to be asleep to believe it. -- George Carlin
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#57
(05-14-2015, 09:21 AM)gstanford Wrote: I agree about not going into debt.  It is the biggest mistake people make, especially when they are deluding themselves that they are somehow climbing the social ladder and keeping up with the Jones's by doing so.  When I bought my Yaris I bought it straight off of the showroom floor in cold hard cash.  I'm totally debt free, don't owe anyone so much as 1 red razoo.

LOL The 2% I'm paying on my Sierra is a KILLER! I'd pay high interest not to drive a Yaris though. As far as "deluding myself" goes, I pay my bills, odds are good I'll be a millionaire when I retire, and I'm not hurting anyone, so who are you to say what is sensible for me to drive?

(05-14-2015, 09:21 AM)gstanford Wrote: If a low income person/family needs a vehicle they can buy used like you did (I did that early on in life too)
I have the feeling Ocre is the opposite of low income. I bet he buys pretty nice cars, just buys them used to let someone else take the big depreciation.


(05-14-2015, 09:21 AM)gstanford Wrote: and take on somebody else's mechanical trouble, they can save a little more and get a new budget car, or they could fry their brain and let the likes of Rollo "successfully market" them into taking on a lot of debt to obtain a vehicle way more expensive than they actually need.

I can tell you this: I need 4wd to get back to my fishing and hunting shack in the winter, it's about a mile down a private dirt road. I tow a 2500lb boat in the summer, haul my 3' X 6' pop up ice shanty every week in the winter, canoes, kayaks, and a dirt bike in the summer. On occasion I haul the small boat I leave at the cabin in the bed of my truck. Not to mention we get winter here and sometimes I need 4wd just to get around.


(05-14-2015, 09:21 AM)gstanford Wrote: Only fools purchase expensive cars anyway, there is precious little else in this world outside of computer parts that loses its value faster than cars do.
So quick to pass judgement. Would you like it if I said, "Only students drive Yaris's. Successful people demand more safety, room, power, and style than a Yaris can manage, but we all have to make sacrifices before we get ahead in the world."?


(05-14-2015, 09:21 AM)gstanford Wrote: Keep going.  We will very quickly get to the point where nobody will believe one syllable of anything you utter/write and it will be all your own doing.

First, you have to understand that for someone like me, the base model of a small truck does seem very primitive and Spartan.

Second, you've yet to prove any of my "lies" and others here have been pointing out your own lies and mistakes.

It was a big deal for me to buy a six cylinder truck, I researched it pretty thoroughly. (my last six were V8s)
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#58
Quote:Second, you've yet to prove any of my "lies" and others here have been pointing out your own lies and mistakes.

Feel free to link to where others have pointed out my own lies Richie Rich, if you can manage to tear yourself away from your vanity mirror that is....

[Image: moneytoburn-172x115.gif]
Adam knew he should have bought a PC but Eve fell for the marketing hype.

Homeopathy is what happened when snake oil salesmen discovered that water is cheaper than snake oil.

The reason they call it the American Dream is because you have to be asleep to believe it. -- George Carlin
Reply
#59
The Toyota pickup I linked has a 4 liter V6 engine standard across the range (just like your truck). It does NOT have a 4 cylinder engine as standard, only as an option. It has fake leather trim (just like your truck) it has computerized entertainment/GPS etc, etc. The only thing it doesn't have is 20" wheels (18" max).

You are clueless!
Adam knew he should have bought a PC but Eve fell for the marketing hype.

Homeopathy is what happened when snake oil salesmen discovered that water is cheaper than snake oil.

The reason they call it the American Dream is because you have to be asleep to believe it. -- George Carlin
Reply
#60
(05-14-2015, 05:30 PM)gstanford Wrote: The Toyota pickup I linked has a 4 liter V6 engine standard across the range (just like your truck).  It does NOT have a 4 cylinder engine  It has fake leather trim (just like your truck)  it has computerized entertainment/GPS etc, etc.  The only thing it doesn't have is 20" wheels (18" max).

You are clueless!

First, I have a 2015 5.3l Sierra now, I traded in the 4.3l Silverado three months ago.

Second, yes, you can get 6 cylinder truck with all the options of a V8 truck, but what does that prove? It's not a $20K vehicle anymore or close to it.

With the options my truck has, an extended cab Toyota Tacoma Extended cab costs $29, 408 MSRP, far above your $20K "sensibility cut off".

And you would still have a truck that can't haul my skiff, ice shanty, or my son's dirt bike with the tailgate closed. A truck that would have to work much harder to tow my boat. A truck that my 6'4" frame would be more cramped in, as well as my son and his friends we haul around.

You're the clueless one Greg.

Pretending subcompact cars and little toy trucks are acceptable transportation for families that can easily afford to have what they need, rather than settle for inconvenience.

The 75% of the top 20 selling vehicles here are in step with my thinking should have told you long ago that I think like most Americans. (and that the little car ways of Europe/Asia/Australia mean very little here- for us , small cars are something to be avoided)
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#61
Quote:Second, yes, you can get 6 cylinder truck with all the options of a V8 truck, but what does that prove? It's not a $20K vehicle anymore or close to it.

The V6, dashboard instrumentation and fake leather upholstery are standard across the line.

Quote:With the options my truck has, an extended cab Toyota Tacoma Extended cab costs $29, 408 MSRP, far above your $20K "sensibility cut off".[/quote
Still far cheaper than your truck.

[quote]You're the clueless one Greg.

Pretending subcompact cars and little toy trucks are acceptable transportation for families that can easily afford to have what they need, rather than settle for inconvenience.
Am I now? For what you paid for your truck I could have a nice car AND a nice truck. Why would I want to drive a truck around when I don't need to? I didn't grow up a Southern redneck HillBilly.
Adam knew he should have bought a PC but Eve fell for the marketing hype.

Homeopathy is what happened when snake oil salesmen discovered that water is cheaper than snake oil.

The reason they call it the American Dream is because you have to be asleep to believe it. -- George Carlin
Reply
#62
(05-14-2015, 07:36 PM)gstanford Wrote:
Quote:Second, yes, you can get 6 cylinder truck with all the options of a V8 truck, but what does that prove? It's not a $20K vehicle anymore or close to it.

The V6, dashboard instrumentation and fake leather upholstery are standard across the line.
Not true. (a lie)

http://www.edmunds.com/toyota/tacoma/201...s-3-anchor

Quote:The standard four-cylinder engine provides decent performance...The cabin feels cheap in places with lots of hard plastic surfaces....engines provide decent fuel economy and power, they're pretty noisy when pushed for acceleration....

Look what is Optional:

Quote:2WD Double Cab adds power mirrors, adjustable driver lumbar,
Wowee! Power mirrors and a manual seat!

Quote:The Access Cab is eligible for the Convenience package (called the Convenience Extra Value package on the Double Cab), which adds keyless entry, power mirrors (Access Cab only), cruise control, a tinted sliding rear window and steering-wheel audio controls.
Up another level to get keyless entry and cruise control, and steering wheel audio.

Quote: The SR5 package includes those items plus chrome grille and rear bumper trim, color-keyed front bumper and fenders, foglights (V6 only), adjustable driver lumbar support (already standard on Double Cab), unique seat fabric, variable intermittent wipers, metallic-look instrument panel trim, a leather-wrapped steering wheel and (automatic-only) shift knob, dual sun visors with mirrors and extenders and a rearview camera.
Top of the line to get stuff like a wrapped steering wheel, foglights, rear view camera, chrome bumpers.

Like I said, Tacomas SUCK in base trim and are basically caveman trucks.


(05-14-2015, 07:36 PM)gstanford Wrote: With the options my truck has, an extended cab Toyota Tacoma Extended cab costs $29, 408 MSRP, far above your $20K "sensibility cut off".[/quote
Still far cheaper than your truck.
Yep and getting far less. Much smaller, more dangerous in a wreck, and no 350hp/388ft lbs torque in a Taco.


(05-14-2015, 07:36 PM)gstanford Wrote: Am I now?  For what you paid for your truck I could have a nice car AND a nice truck.  Why would I want to drive a truck around when I don't need to?  I didn't grow up a Southern redneck HillBilly.

My parents have three bachelors and one Masters between them, all from Big 10 colleges. My dad ran and owned businesses my entire life. The only time we ever lived in the "hills" is when my folks bought a log home with a glass front on top of a bluff that overlooked the southern half of the state. I could see the lights of the city I live in now (45 miles away) from our hot tub at night.

If that is growing up a "Southern redneck Hillbilly" the world needs more of it.

In the USA, pickup trucks are the new luxury cars because people know they're safe and have a lot of utility. Before that it was big SUVs, which have a little less utility.

It was never a Taco or a Yaris.
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#63
LOL! Rollo, you really should not get your info off of the back of your breakfast cereal packet! It's likely to embarrass you - badly.

http://www.toyota.com/tacoma/features.ht.../7594/7597

[Image: No_Lie.jpg]
Adam knew he should have bought a PC but Eve fell for the marketing hype.

Homeopathy is what happened when snake oil salesmen discovered that water is cheaper than snake oil.

The reason they call it the American Dream is because you have to be asleep to believe it. -- George Carlin
Reply
#64
(05-14-2015, 11:18 PM)gstanford Wrote: LOL! Rollo, you really should not get your info off of the back of your breakfast cereal packet!  It's likely to embarrass you - badly.

Don't know what to tell you Greg. You've been wrong about everything so far, so this outlandish post is not entirely unexpected.

I just used zip code 53707 in the Toyota Configurator and built a 4 cylinder Tacoma.

Then I searched carsoup.com for 4 cylinder, new, 2015-2015, Toyota Tacoma, 4 cylinder engine. Came up with forty 2015 4 cylinder Tacomas for sale within 500 miles of zip code 53707.

http://www.carsoup.com/for-sale/Toyota/T...code=53707

You're consistent at least. Rolleyes

You know what is crazy about this debate?

We've got Greg in a tiny little country over 9000 miles away, trying to tell Americans what sort of marketing works here, what the American people are buying, and what the American people "should" be doing.

Want to know how much I k now about the buying habits and ways of people in Australia? 0.0

Want to know how much I care about the buying habits or ways of the people of Austalia? 0.0

Yet here's Greg, " You yanks are FOOLS buying expensive cars! All a bloke needs is the son of the Yugo, the Yaris! Plenty of passenger room for a good size chicken and a cell phone!".

You may have to accept that watching the local news every day, and living among the people I may have a "bit" more understanding of what's going on in the USA than you Greg.
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#65
I don't think you do Rollo, certainly not when it comes to the poorer citizens of the USA (and there are plenty of them).

My information came directly from Toyota's own website. If you have an issue with it take it up with Toyota. Perhaps earlier on this year there may have been a 4 cylinder option being sold and since then Toyota has reconsidered and decided to offer only the V6 as standard. Your dealers are selling old stock off (to gullible people who don't research properly, but then that is how the rich acquire most of their fortunes - conning and ripping off the vulnerable, trusting and uninformed).



Nobody is forcing you to buy a Yaris, either. I listed 22 different models of budget cars earlier including 1 4WD amongst them. Every last one of them under $20K US

The Yaris suits me because it is like a small station wagon, perfect for when I need to transport goods to client houses etc. It suits my needs extremely well. If it doesn't suit yours, fine there are at least 21 other choices (plus more car models that I didn't bother to find).
Adam knew he should have bought a PC but Eve fell for the marketing hype.

Homeopathy is what happened when snake oil salesmen discovered that water is cheaper than snake oil.

The reason they call it the American Dream is because you have to be asleep to believe it. -- George Carlin
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#66
You do you think smaller lighter cars/trucks are more dangerous in a wreck?! They are actually safer. The severity of an accident is due to mass * speed at the time of a collision. less mass, less serverity. You are more likely to die in your truck than I am in my Yaris.

Sure, your truck might come out of the collision less squished than my Yaris, but, small cars are designed to crumple on impact so that people inside them don't.

And its not even an issue if you drive properly and don't get into collisions in the first place.
Adam knew he should have bought a PC but Eve fell for the marketing hype.

Homeopathy is what happened when snake oil salesmen discovered that water is cheaper than snake oil.

The reason they call it the American Dream is because you have to be asleep to believe it. -- George Carlin
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#67
(05-15-2015, 10:22 AM)gstanford Wrote: I don't think you do Rollo, certainly not when it comes to the poorer citizens of the USA (and there are plenty of them).

My information came directly from Toyota's own website.  If you have an issue with it take it up with Toyota.  Perhaps earlier on this year there may have been a 4 cylinder option being sold and since then Toyota has reconsidered and decided to offer only the V6 as standard.  Your dealers are selling old stock off (to gullible people who don't research properly, but then that is how the rich acquire most of their fortunes - conning and ripping off the vulnerable, trusting and uninformed).

I think you need to use your mod powers to edit your name to "Greg Wrongford":

http://www.torquenews.com/1083/2016-toyo...questioned

Quote:Toyota's product communications manager Craig Taguchi told us “The 2016 Tacoma 4-cylinder will be available with a 5-speed manual transmission, along with the new 6-speed automatic transmission.”

The 2015 Tacoma brochure lists the 4 cylinder as the standard engine on 3/4 of the models:

http://www.toyota.com/tacoma/ebrochure/

LOL

1. Car review sites all say 2015 4 cylinder Tacos are base engine.
2. Toyota car builder web site says 2015 4 Cylinder Tacos available.
3. Toyota dealers have 2015 4 cylinder Tacos for sale.
4. Toyota PR says 4 cylinder Tacos will be available in 2016.
5 Toyota's sales brochure for 2015 lists the 4 cylinder as the standard engine on every model but one.

Greg: "There is no such thing as a 4 cylinder Toyota Tacoma! Disregard all of the 4 cylinder Tacomas you see for sale in your town, and the lies Toyota is telling the press and putting on their web site! Only I have the true information about Toyotas, and I will guide you! I have seen a web page, it must be true!"

I'm starting to see a big similarity between you and BFG10K, I used to have discussions like this with him all the time.

Rollo: NVIDIA told me they are coming out with a new form of Super Sampling Anti Aliasing, good news!
BFG10K: Rubbish! There is no such thing!
Rollo: (posts links to six articles discussing the new AA, and a picture of an email from NVIDIA staffer confirming it)
BFG10K: Well I meant it does not exist for a cell shaded game from 13 years ago that I play all the time. If it doesn't exist for that, it doesn't matter! I am right, you are wrong!"

Are you guys twins?
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#68
You should contact Toyota and point out that their website is inaccurate if you truly believe it is.

Not that the toyota link and image shows the V6 engine as "standard". It shows the 4 cylinder engine as standard, so even if it is available it is an option, its not the default engine unlike what you are trying to claim.

And I guess that if the Tacoma is being offered with a 4 cylinder engine that would be because there is an actual demand for such a thing and they are not as useless as you like to claim they are.

Car manufacturers aren't in the habit of producing and offering for sale things that people don't purchase, be that budget cars or 4 cylinder pickup trucks.

from your ebrochure link:

[Image: 6cyl.jpg]

Your torque news link discusses the 2016 Tahoma, NOT the 2015, and once again, the V6 is standard, 4-cylinder + manual transmission is an OPTION!
Adam knew he should have bought a PC but Eve fell for the marketing hype.

Homeopathy is what happened when snake oil salesmen discovered that water is cheaper than snake oil.

The reason they call it the American Dream is because you have to be asleep to believe it. -- George Carlin
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#69
Here's some more information for you Greg"

In the top ten selling vehicles in America over $50,000.00 pickup trucks occupy spots 1,2,5, and 10. Must be a lot of "redneck hillbillies" who apparently have enough cash to spend more than a lot of people make in a year on a pickup, eh, Greg?

http://www.cheatsheet.com/automobiles/10...?a=viewall

Quote:If a vehicle can handle any work task and also look good when hitting the town Saturday nights, wouldn’t that automobile fill two niches at once? U.S. consumers are officially on board with this version of premium.

"Stack'em high and sell'em cheap", eh Greg?

Meanwhile, how are Toyota trucks doing here??

http://www.goodcarbadcar.net/2011/01/toy...gures.html

Wow, Toyota sold a whole 100,000 Tundras, compared to the ~2,000,000 full size trucks GM/Ford/RAM sold last year.

So about 5% of American truck buyers choose Toyota. LOL
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#70
Who, except for you is talking $50K trucks?! and how is Tundra sales figures relevant to the Tacoma?!

You are trolling. STOP!
Adam knew he should have bought a PC but Eve fell for the marketing hype.

Homeopathy is what happened when snake oil salesmen discovered that water is cheaper than snake oil.

The reason they call it the American Dream is because you have to be asleep to believe it. -- George Carlin
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#71
(05-15-2015, 05:40 PM)gstanford Wrote: You should contact Toyota and point out that their website is inaccurate if you truly believe it is.

I think you are the one who should contact Toyota Greg.

You are apparently the only person on the planet who thinks Tacomas can't be purchased with a 4 cylinder.

Not that it would matter.

I think the Emperor of Japan and the CEO of Toyota could fly to Australia and say to you,"Mr. Stanford, Mr. Rollo is right. We've always had the 4 cylinder as our base engine on the Tacoma, and have no plans to change." and you would reply, "I saw a web page, I don't care if you, all the other web pages, and the trucks sitting on dealer lots say differently, the web page I found is right!"

How can anyone believe ANYTHING you say when you refuse to believe such easily and commonly available information?
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#72
Quote:I think you are the one who should contact Toyota Greg.

You are apparently the only person on the planet who thinks Tacomas can't be purchased with a 4 cylinder.

Not that it would matter.

I never said Tacoma's could not be purchased with a 4 cylinder engine. I said the V6 engine is the standard engine across the Tacoma range and the 4 cylinder engine is an option (that Toyota's website says is unavailable).
Adam knew he should have bought a PC but Eve fell for the marketing hype.

Homeopathy is what happened when snake oil salesmen discovered that water is cheaper than snake oil.

The reason they call it the American Dream is because you have to be asleep to believe it. -- George Carlin
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#73
(05-15-2015, 06:06 PM)gstanford Wrote: Who, except for you is talking $50K trucks?!  and how is Tundra sales figures relevant to the Tacoma?!

You are trolling.  STOP!

You're the one who said (repeatedly) people who spend over $20K on vehicles are "fools" and that Americans want cheap value.

I've proved (to everyone but you) the best selling vehicles in America cost over $30K, and a big chunk of those over $50K.

P3wnd. Big Grin
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#74
Low income earners don't give a flying fuck about what is and isn't best selling, they care about what they can afford to purchase. and reliability, Toyota's pickup trucks are the most reliable out there at any price, just like their passenger cars.
Adam knew he should have bought a PC but Eve fell for the marketing hype.

Homeopathy is what happened when snake oil salesmen discovered that water is cheaper than snake oil.

The reason they call it the American Dream is because you have to be asleep to believe it. -- George Carlin
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#75
(05-15-2015, 06:15 PM)gstanford Wrote: Low income earners don't give a flying fuck about what is and isn't best selling, they care about what they can afford to purchase.  and reliability, Toyota's pickup trucks are the most reliable out there at any price, just like their passenger cars.

This tactic is known as "moving the goalposts" in the logical fallacies.

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Moving_the_goalposts

This all started with you putting forth "stack'em high and sell'em cheap" being a time tested way to market, and me saying that in the USA, in several markets, it's the opposite of the best way to market because our people are prosperous.

I cited the auto market as one of my examples. You disagreed and said it still applies.

I proved you wrong by showing that 15 of our 20 best selling cars have a MSRP beginning above your $20K threshold for what you think the popular cars sell for.

Then things got weird with you saying things like:

1.Only "Southern redneck hillbillies" would want to drive a full size pickup.
I proved you wrong (again) by showing stats that four of our top ten best selling $50K+ luxury cars are indeed pickup trucks, which are a HUGE suburban craze here. I live in the suburbs, when I stand in my yard I see at least 6 full size pickups within a block of me. (not to mention the Tahoes, Suburbans, Lexus's, Range Rovers, BMWs) I also see on the news..yep..stories about how every one is buying expensive trucks. Yet you, stuck in a tiny country 9000 miles away, presume you know better.

2. You backtrack and try to say "only fools drive cars that cost more than $20K".
Guess what? Like most things in life, the more you spend, the better the purchase. Those of us buying the cars with MSRP over $40K aren't doing so to show off, we like bargains as much as the next guy, but for different reasons. When I was going to replace my 2010 full size pick last spring, I "considered" the $50K+ uber truck, but the dealer offered me one with a $40K MSRP for $32K, and I figured if I bought that I could afford to replace my 6 year old 150hp boat with a new 150hp boat and have two new toys instead of one. (and I can honestly say, we enjoyed the truck and the boat a whole lot last year)

3. You try to pawn off "All these vendors have a cheap car or two"
So what? It's not evidence cheap cars are the way to go when I post that Mitsubishis sales for the year, including their cars over $20K, are a small fraction of the sales of one full size truck. Similarly, while Toyota does indeed sell cracker boxes like the Yaris here, my other link showed they sell 4X as many $20K+ Camrys.

You're frantically trying to win an argument you lost from the start, and shouldn't have even been trying.

I've got news Greg. In the USA, even the poor often buy used, big SUVs to try to "look" rich. We value wealth as a culture, and chase it. Not to mention gas is $2.00 a gallon here so getting 15mpg doesn't really matter. You guys that pay $5-$6 a gallon have much more reason to care.
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#76
The Yaris isn't a cracker box and Toyota's most successful car of all time - the Corolla is also a budget car and can be had under $20K US.

I can guarantee you that the Yaris, Corolla, Tacoma's bought at the same time you bought your fancy shiny truck will still be in active service long after your big toy is compacted into scrap metal.

Your truck has lots of pretty shiny bits, Toyota's vehicles have lots of reliability, an ability to hold their resale value better than most other cars and stay on the roads longer than most other cars.

You Americans enjoy your prosperity while you still can, China is almost ready to overtake you and your president's know it even if they will never admit it in public.
Adam knew he should have bought a PC but Eve fell for the marketing hype.

Homeopathy is what happened when snake oil salesmen discovered that water is cheaper than snake oil.

The reason they call it the American Dream is because you have to be asleep to believe it. -- George Carlin
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#77
(05-15-2015, 11:33 PM)gstanford Wrote: The Yaris isn't a cracker box and Toyota's most successful car of all time - the Corolla is also a budget car and can be had under $20K US.

I can guarantee you that the Yaris, Corolla, Tacoma's bought at the same time you bought your fancy shiny truck will still be in active service long after your big toy is compacted into scrap metal.

Your truck has lots of pretty shiny bits, Toyota's vehicles have lots of reliability, an ability to hold their resale value better than most other cars and stay on the roads longer than most other cars.


You Americans enjoy your prosperity while you still can, China is almost ready to overtake you and your president's know it even if they will never admit it in public.
My family's had a Corolla and currently has a base model Camry. You're right, they are damn reliable and long lasting. Camry's also a really quiet car.
Valve hater, Nintendo hater, Microsoft defender, AMD hater, Google Fiber hater, 4K lover, net neutrality lover.
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#78
(05-15-2015, 11:33 PM)gstanford Wrote: The Yaris isn't a cracker box and Toyota's most successful car of all time - the Corolla is also a budget car and can be had under $20K US.

I can guarantee you that the Yaris, Corolla, Tacoma's bought at the same time you bought your fancy shiny truck will still be in active service long after your big toy is compacted into scrap metal.

Your truck has lots of pretty shiny bits, Toyota's vehicles have lots of reliability, an ability to hold their resale value better than most other cars and stay on the roads longer than most other cars.


You Americans enjoy your prosperity while you still can, China is almost ready to overtake you and your president's know it even if they will never admit it in public.

You're still missing the point Greg.

It doesn't matter how well Yaris's and Corollas sell in the rest of the world for this discussion, because we were talking about the USA.

And in the USA the Camry, which STARTS at $22K is Toyota's most popular model. Toyota sold as many Camrys here last year as they sold Corollas and Yaris's COMBINED.

Why? Because the rules that apply in Australia don't apply here! $2/gallon gas. 2% (or lower) car loan interest. Cars are a status symbol.

As far as reliability and resale go, why would I care? The longest I ever keep a car is 80K miles and as such, I get a big chunk of what I paid on trade in. Probably ANY car is going to last 80K miles pretty easily.

Yaris:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=skhaeXwfh3s

Now here's what I drive:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jsC1ww19mPg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=voh-M7qBjBM

You seriously think I'd even consider a car like a Yaris? Those cars don't even exist to me, won't even rent them when I travel.
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#79
(05-16-2015, 04:21 AM)RolloTheGreat Wrote: As far as reliability and resale go, why would I care? The longest I ever keep a car is 80K miles and as such, I get a big chunk of what I paid on trade in. Probably ANY car is going to last 80K miles pretty easily.
If you think cars can only be good for 80,000 miles when you could be driving a Toyota and saving money for the next Toyota, I feel bad for you.
Valve hater, Nintendo hater, Microsoft defender, AMD hater, Google Fiber hater, 4K lover, net neutrality lover.
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#80
(05-16-2015, 05:49 AM)SteelCrysis Wrote:
(05-16-2015, 04:21 AM)RolloTheGreat Wrote: As far as reliability and resale go, why would I care? The longest I ever keep a car is 80K miles and as such, I get a big chunk of what I paid on trade in. Probably ANY car is going to last 80K miles pretty easily.
If you think cars can only be good for 80,000 miles when you could be driving a Toyota and saving money for the next Toyota, I feel bad for you.

Feel good for me. I drive what I want to drive. I trade them in every 3-4 years because I like driving new cars and can afford to.

Why would I want a Toyota? I support American companies whenever possible, my way of giving back. I've purchased 3 American built boats, and 5 American built pickups since 2002.

If everyone followed my example, the middle class in America wouldn't be shrinking. Too much "Buy a cheap Toyota" going on.
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