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A question for the ABT "social justice" crew
#41
(06-01-2015, 03:31 AM)SickBeast Wrote:
(06-01-2015, 12:31 AM)ocre Wrote: I think you guys are the ones only focused on money, gstanford.
You are encouraging Rollo...

I took a liberal Democrat friend up to my cabin last night to go fishing. This guy has two Masters degrees, works in the college system. We disagree on most things political, debate liberal and conservative ideology while we fish.

First I shared this story with him:

http://www.usherald.com/maine-welfare-re...-benefits/

Quote:After forcing these individuals to either work part-time for twenty hours each week, enroll in a vocational program, or volunteer for a minimum of twenty-four hours per month, the numbers showed a significant drop from 12,000 enrollees to just over 2,500.

Then I brought up this thread, and the impending "revolution". He started laughing, and said "What is the cause that is supposed to galvanize the people to attack our military and basically commit suicide?! If money is the issue, your first story apparently proves 80% of the poor won't even work 6 hours a week for it. These guy think they'll lay down their lives in hopes of higher wages?!"

My friend and I disagree on most political issues and debate the "rights" of the poor all the time. On this we agreed immediately: The poor in the USA have things good enough that they will choose to keep on with the status quo before getting shot by the National Guard.
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#42
(05-31-2015, 11:05 PM)RolloTheGreat Wrote: How about you Dave?

I'd bet good money your household income is at least $60-$70K
You would lose that bet.
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#43
(06-01-2015, 05:09 PM)RolloTheGreat Wrote:
(06-01-2015, 03:31 AM)SickBeast Wrote:
(06-01-2015, 12:31 AM)ocre Wrote: I think you guys are the ones only focused on money, gstanford.
You are encouraging Rollo...

I took a liberal Democrat friend up to my cabin last night to go fishing. This guy has two Masters degrees, works in the college system. We disagree on most things political, debate liberal and conservative ideology while we fish.

First I shared this story with him:

http://www.usherald.com/maine-welfare-re...-benefits/


Quote:After forcing these individuals to either work part-time for twenty hours each week, enroll in a vocational program, or volunteer for a minimum of twenty-four hours per month, the numbers showed a significant drop from 12,000 enrollees to just over 2,500.

Then I brought up this thread, and the impending "revolution". He started laughing, and said "What is the cause that is supposed to galvanize the people to attack our military and basically commit suicide?! If money is the issue, your first story apparently proves 80% of the poor won't even work 6 hours a week for it. These guy think they'll lay down their lives in hopes of higher wages?!"

My friend and I disagree on most political issues and debate the "rights" of the poor all the time. On this we agreed immediately: The poor in the USA have things good enough that they will choose to keep on with the status quo before getting shot by the National Guard.
Actually, there's also the possibility that the job market is so horrible that the majority of the poor can't get work to continue qualifying for welfare, and that forcing them to go through vocational training and volunteering hoops that don't help them at all in this experience-demanding job economy makes them realize that this form of welfare is a waste of time and effort for no gain in chances of getting a job for themselves.
Valve hater, Nintendo hater, Microsoft defender, AMD hater, Google Fiber hater, 4K lover, net neutrality lover.
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#44
(06-01-2015, 09:58 PM)SteelCrysis Wrote: Actually, there's also the possibility that the job market is so horrible that the majority of the poor can't get work to continue qualifying for welfare, and that forcing them to go through vocational training and volunteering hoops that don't help them at all in this experience-demanding job economy makes them realize that this form of welfare is a waste of time and effort for no gain in chances of getting a job for themselves.

Do you think they have a better chance with or without the vocational training?

And if they don't like that, they can do the 6 hours a week of public service work.

(06-01-2015, 08:21 PM)dmcowen674 Wrote:
(05-31-2015, 11:05 PM)RolloTheGreat Wrote: How about you Dave?

I'd bet good money your household income is at least $60-$70K
You would lose that bet.

Your answer is the same as when we talked years ago. You're a smart guy, and a nice guy, you need to finish the degree (even if it means on nights and weekends for a few years) and use the system that is using you.

When my first degree didn't pan out like expected I did exactly that and got a second. If that ever fails, I'll learn what I must to live like I want to.
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#45
Getting a university degree in the USA is next to impossible unless you have a lot of money to begin with. When I visited Carnegie Mellon university the students told me that they were paying $30000 in tuition for an undergraduate program.
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#46
(06-01-2015, 11:47 PM)RolloTheGreat Wrote: Your answer is the same as when we talked years ago. You're a smart guy, and a nice guy, you need to finish the degree (even if it means on nights and weekends for a few years) and use the system that is using you.

When my first degree didn't pan out like expected I did exactly that and got a second. If that ever fails, I'll learn what I must to live like I want to.

and be indebted till death?

Some plan  Rolleyes
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#47
How much of the degree do you have left to finish, Dave?
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#48
(06-02-2015, 06:08 AM)dmcowen674 Wrote:
(06-01-2015, 11:47 PM)RolloTheGreat Wrote: Your answer is the same as when we talked years ago. You're a smart guy, and a nice guy, you need to finish the degree (even if it means on nights and weekends for a few years) and use the system that is using you.

When my first degree didn't pan out like expected I did exactly that and got a second. If that ever fails, I'll learn what I must to live like I want to.

and be indebted till death?

Some plan  Rolleyes

I guess that depends what you make after you graduate doesn't it?

If you were making $40K and you bump to $60K are you better or worse off spending $3K of your $20K bump on student loan payments?

(06-02-2015, 02:05 AM)SickBeast Wrote: Getting a university degree in the USA is next to impossible unless you have a lot of money to begin with. When I visited Carnegie Mellon university the students told me that they were paying $30000 in tuition for an undergraduate program.

They pay more than that, but it's a high priced private college:

https://www.cmu.edu/hub/tuition/1415-undergraduate.html

Of course if you go to a state school, it's MUCH cheaper:

https://finaid.wisc.edu/undergraduate-cost.htm

$10K a year tuition vs $48K at Carnegie Mellon (and smaller state schools are more like $8K/year tuition)

You are correct it takes a lot of money, but the payoff is there:

http://www.bls.gov/emp/ep_chart_001.htm

Half the people in the US with a bachelors degree are making above $1101 a week, and they had 3.5% unemployment last year.

Compare that with $668 median salary for high school grads and 6% unemployment.
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#49
Photo 
http://media-cache-ec0.pinimg.com/736x/9...d203ef.jpg

[Image: 9e56fd36bc0bf2c6e454e17beed203ef.jpg]
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#50
(06-02-2015, 09:27 AM)dmcowen674 Wrote: http://media-cache-ec0.pinimg.com/736x/9...d203ef.jpg

[Image: 9e56fd36bc0bf2c6e454e17beed203ef.jpg]

http://money.usnews.com/money/blogs/my-m...in-3-years

Quote:How to Pay Off $30,000 of Student Debt in 3 Years

Even if you DON'T, how many years do you have left to work Dave?

I'm guessing at least 20 until full social security. (I'm under the impression you're younger than I am, I'm early 50s)

Like I said, if you paid $4000/year for the next 20 years because you borrowed some money to go to school that would indeed be $80,000 you'd spend over the next 20 years on your student loans.

However; even if you only ended up averaging $8000 more a year after taxes, you'd still be $4000/year ahead after taxes. (and have $80,000 more to spend over those 20 years)

US government info shows median income $359/week higher for bachelor's than some college, that is $18,668 more a year before taxes. Should work out to $1000/mo more after taxes.

So even if you had to pay $400/mo of that all 20 years (and BTW you can shift student loans to lower interest home equity/other types of loans) you'd have $600 more a month on top of that.

Not to mention I'd think it would be nice to have some of the power on your side of the table when talking to employers.

Your life dude, but I think my advice is sound. Worked for me and pretty much everyone I know.
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#51
http://www.smh.com.au/comment/house-pric...hla0f.html

An excellent read, though I doubt the likes of Rollo will understand it properly.

Quote:But myths are inevitable when you transform the free market from an economic arrangement into a political philosophy. You wind up assuming opportunity is more or less equal, that individuals control their respective fates, and that empowering the wealthy to increase their wealth will, by some abstract mechanism, enrich us all. Thus, you pretend the market simply redistributes power and wealth according to talent and effort, and doesn't also concentrate these things among those who start with an advantage.
Adam knew he should have bought a PC but Eve fell for the marketing hype.

Homeopathy is what happened when snake oil salesmen discovered that water is cheaper than snake oil.

The reason they call it the American Dream is because you have to be asleep to believe it. -- George Carlin
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#52
(06-12-2015, 08:16 PM)gstanford Wrote: http://www.smh.com.au/comment/house-pric...hla0f.html

An excellent read, though I doubt the likes of Rollo will understand it properly.

Quote:But myths are inevitable when you transform the free market from an economic arrangement into a political philosophy. You wind up assuming opportunity is more or less equal, that individuals control their respective fates, and that empowering the wealthy to increase their wealth will, by some abstract mechanism, enrich us all. Thus, you pretend the market simply redistributes power and wealth according to talent and effort, and doesn't also concentrate these things among those who start with an advantage.

Some people like to pretend the game is fixed and no one can win. Most of the millionaires I know started off poor or middle class.

Most of the upper middle class people I know started off poor or middle class.

You guys can pretend that it makes no sense to try because the game is rigged, that is fine. Leaves more opportunity for the rest of us.

If you're looking for a guarantee hard work and talent will get you there, let me know where that applies. Hard work and talent are just like degrees, just ways to increase your odds.

Lots of hard working, talented, degreed people fail or don't succeed to the extent they should. The point is more of them succeed than lazy, unskilled, and uneducated people.
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#53
Nobody is pretending anything. The game IS rigged!
Adam knew he should have bought a PC but Eve fell for the marketing hype.

Homeopathy is what happened when snake oil salesmen discovered that water is cheaper than snake oil.

The reason they call it the American Dream is because you have to be asleep to believe it. -- George Carlin
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#54
(06-13-2015, 07:01 AM)gstanford Wrote: Nobody is pretending anything.  The game IS rigged!

The game is only rigged in that there are some tax advantages to having a lot of money, and if you choose to risk your money, you may not have to work.

I guarantee you when I'm interviewing people who their parents were or the car they drive isn't even on my list of criteria. That will be the case at almost any under $100K job, ability to do the work HAS to come first.

Making bad hiring decisions is a big deal, and you don't want to be associated with them.
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