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11-8-2016 Trump wins Presidency
(01-28-2016, 06:40 PM)gstanford Wrote: Hmmm, 320 million odd citizens in the USA currently.  lets say 60% are working age, thats 192 million people needing employment.  You think that programming computers and robots will need 192 million workers?!

I'd be shocked if it required more than 1 million.  Machine learning is beginning to take off.

That's because like a lot of uneducated people, you speak from a negative, uninformed perspective.

http://www.infoq.com/news/2014/01/IDC-so...developers

There were 3.5m software developers in the USA in 2014.

You underestimate the opportunity that will be created, over estimate the reduction in the workforce due to automation because this meshes with your "we're all doomed" world view.
Reply
You underestimate how much the future computers and robots will learn for themselves and program themselves, no human help required.

It's already happening at the car makers, at google, tesla, apple etc. It has to happen for self-driving cars, and it certainly won't end there. Anything that can be automated will be automated, including Presidential speeches!

http://www.smh.com.au/technology/technol...me0l4.html
Adam knew he should have bought a PC but Eve fell for the marketing hype.

Homeopathy is what happened when snake oil salesmen discovered that water is cheaper than snake oil.

The reason they call it the American Dream is because you have to be asleep to believe it. -- George Carlin
Reply
(01-28-2016, 08:20 AM)SteelCrysis Wrote: I wouldn't call Reagan a prize clown, although he had his share of goof ups.

What's for sure is that he was a puppet of Goldman Sachs (for example:




I thought the President was supposed to be boss?
Reply
(01-28-2016, 05:44 AM)gstanford Wrote:
(01-26-2016, 06:48 AM)BoFox Wrote: Ok, have it your way for a while..  but let me have my own custom title soon, please?  2 weeks is about all I can take, lol  haha.

Don't know what the fuss is about, nobody is stopping you.  Perhaps you don't know how?

Just click on your username somewhere in the forum.  You should get the page in the link below.

http://i.imgur.com/B4xHxBg.jpg

Then click the "Edit this user in Mod CP" link.  You should get the page below.

http://i.imgur.com/QNcwt40.jpg

The part highlighted red is where you can change your title.

Using the Mod CP to alter anyone elses profile is an abuse of your mod powers, don't do it!  (suspending signatures of suspected spammers and removing any URL's from suspected spammer profiles excepted).  Moderator actions are logged, so there is no hiding any abuse.

Thank you so much!!   Rose
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(01-28-2016, 07:52 AM)SickBeast Wrote: We need a consensus amongst the mods.  I actually think making Rollo a mod was BoFox's brain child.  We will see where that one goes.

As for Trump, I think he is going to have a broad appeal in the USA regardless of whether or not he does this interview.  He is invincible in a way.  It reminds me of when Bush got elected.
You giving me too much credit for something that I had absolutely no idea was going to happen!!!   LOL  you crack me up!!
ROFLMAO
Reply
(01-28-2016, 04:39 PM)RolloTheGreat Wrote:
(01-28-2016, 08:26 AM)SickBeast Wrote: Realistically when you think about it, these Republican leaders are basically guys like Rollo with a ton of money.  So just picture Rollo running for office.  That is the mentality these guys have.  So IMO they have to have a bit of a screw loose.  It requires a certain level of selfishness to be a Republican.

Dependency does no one any good.

Look at the 3rd, 4th, 5th gen welfare families. Do you think their kids are better off than my son, having two parents who are each capable of supporting a middle class household as role models? "You go sign up at the government, and they take money from others to feed and house you. Working is too hard."

Look at women who opt to stay out of the career world and then get dumped into it when their marriages break down like half of all marriages do. How does that end up for most of them?

Personally I disagree with the Republicans on a LOT of issues. (abortion rights, religion in govt, gun rights, gay marriage, immigration laws) The Supreme Court decided on abortion, and I don't want a return to women dying in back alley abortions because they got drunk at a party or on a date and made bad contraception choices. I believe in religious freedom but separation of church and state. (render unto ceasar what is ceasars) I don't think everyone should be walking around packing firearms like the 1800s. I think gay people should have the same marital rights as anyone else, they're consenting adults not harming anyone. I think we have perfectly fine immigration laws that need to be enforced at the employer level, not by building walls. I don't think those people are what threaten the economy, I think trade laws that made importing and outsourcing more profitable than employing our own are the threat.

But underneath it all, I think you can NOT make the focus of government redistributing wealth to the poor. Government should exist to provide a safe infrastructure for business to operate in and for people to be trained to be in business.

Underneath it all is the simple truth that most of the wealth brought into the nation comes from business, most of the money that runs society comes from businesses, and most of the money that makes our neighborhoods and towns nice places to live comes from business.

If the money isn't there, you get things like what's going on in Detroit and Flint. Society scrambling to maintain services without money, huge chunks of the population poor.

Business HAS to be job one for government, and the Dems have never convinced me they see business as anything but a piggy bank to raid and give money to people who have none.

I want people to have dignity and jobs, because we are all doomed if they don't.

I agree with gstanford, in a way.  If we all leave it to business, then it's still a balancing act with global capitalism sorting out its own equilibrium (to the detriment of the US - unless we don't consider it a detriment for the US to have its per capita GDP reduced to that of China).

Corporate workforce migration to China and India, Indonesia, Pakistan, Mexico, and Nigeria will not slow down this century.  Business is already job one for government (look at how we're nearly demolishing Russia's economy right now because Russia was spending a ludicrously disproportionate amount on military and building oil pipelines to China) - despite pissing off the oil giants like Shell, Exxon, etc.  The government is actually the largest business - and also the most humanitarian one when we think about it (passing anti-pollution laws when companies did everything they could to fight against such, imposing anti-monopoly/antitrust laws, and so on...).  Yet, the government isn't always so wise with business - especially with doing tax incentives instead of directly subsidizing the workers.  Trade laws hardly exist to protect our workers as well.  Let's just be constructive and fix such gravely flaws rather than bashing the poor ex-workers who are merely victims of unfettered global capitalization taking its own course. 

One thing for sure is that work-replaced automation is growing faster than the workforce needed to create robots and manage automation.  Just now, I saw a Burger King with its own touchscreen menus, next to the 2 cashier registers left on the counter - offering a 3% discount if we use the automated system (it probably actually profits the restaurant at least 10% if we bypass the cashiers and do the job by ourselves).  Burger King!!!  It's no longer just the grocery stores, Walmart, Home Depot/Lowes..

Reduced workforce needed thanks to technology has already been taking place since the 1800's (less farmers needed, etc.), but we never had the overseas workforce migration problem until recently, and it's not slowing down anytime soon until the government is bankrupt and completely controlled by ruthless corporations that are in love with China's lax environmental and business laws - like America's own Goldman Sachs taking control of Reagan, it'll be China's finances taking control of us all.....   unless we fix this problem in America real quick (follow Germany's model for example, with stricter trade laws and more liberalized support for college education - PLUS subsidize not just the farmers but the rest of the workforce that are at risk of being replaced with overseas labor).
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I ordered off an ipad at LaGuardia airport recently, but someone still had to cook and bring me my food.

GStan's "I Robot" future won't be arriving in 2016.

The computers and robots won't be building and programming themselves in 2036.

AFAIK the "learning" they do is created by inputs their original programmers had to code for.

GStan has been watching The Terminator movies too much and dreaming about the great robot takeover.





Watch out for those lasers GStan!
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I'm actually dreaming about a forum where gstanford and Rollo can get along. Angel
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Rollo Wrote:The computers and robots won't be building and programming themselves in 2036
You don't know that! I'll bet you are dead wrong and that they are actually doing so well before then!
Adam knew he should have bought a PC but Eve fell for the marketing hype.

Homeopathy is what happened when snake oil salesmen discovered that water is cheaper than snake oil.

The reason they call it the American Dream is because you have to be asleep to believe it. -- George Carlin
Reply
(01-29-2016, 05:19 AM)gstanford Wrote:
Rollo Wrote:The computers and robots won't be building and programming themselves in 2036
You don't know that!  I'll bet you are dead wrong and that they are actually doing so well before then!



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Did Rollo seriously just call someone else insane in the brain? Isn't Rollo the same guy who said the water crisis in Flint was a "non-partisan" issue and basically gave the Republican turkey a free pass? And now he is calling gstanford insane in the brain?

I will tell you, Rollo, some people may be insane in the membrane, but you are the one that's insane in the brain.
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I don't know, I block all embedded youtube content by default, so I never see it.

He is insane though. He thinks his future is so secure and that he will retire a millionaire. He won't see the loss of his own job coming and it will a rude and terrible shock to him when it happens.
Adam knew he should have bought a PC but Eve fell for the marketing hype.

Homeopathy is what happened when snake oil salesmen discovered that water is cheaper than snake oil.

The reason they call it the American Dream is because you have to be asleep to believe it. -- George Carlin
Reply
(01-29-2016, 05:59 AM)SickBeast Wrote: Did Rollo seriously just call someone else insane in the brain?  Isn't Rollo the same guy who said the water crisis in Flint was a "non-partisan" issue and basically gave the Republican turkey a free pass?  And now he is calling gstanford insane in the brain?

I will tell you, Rollo, some people may be insane in the membrane, but you are the one that's insane in the brain.

I can't believe they let a half wit like you teach children. Makes me throw up in my mouth the way you use a tragedy that damaged children to hiss snotty childish comments about Republicans.

Finger
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(01-29-2016, 06:05 AM)gstanford Wrote: I don't know, I block all embedded youtube content by default, so I never see it.

He is insane though.  He thinks his future is so secure and that he will retire a millionaire.  He won't see the loss of his own job coming and it will a rude and terrible shock to him when it happens.

Yeah, I'm sure my doom is near GStan and you'll get the last laugh. Rolleyes
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(01-29-2016, 06:54 AM)RolloTheGreat Wrote:
(01-29-2016, 05:59 AM)SickBeast Wrote: Did Rollo seriously just call someone else insane in the brain?  Isn't Rollo the same guy who said the water crisis in Flint was a "non-partisan" issue and basically gave the Republican turkey a free pass?  And now he is calling gstanford insane in the brain?

I will tell you, Rollo, some people may be insane in the membrane, but you are the one that's insane in the brain.

I can't believe they let a half wit like you teach children. Makes me throw up in my mouth the way you use a tragedy that damaged children to hiss snotty childish comments about Republicans.

Finger

You see, that's the thing. You are not only insane in the membrane, you are also insane in the brain. I think it's only natural to want to hold someone accountable for such a horrible mistake that had such drastic consequences on so many people. The guy needs to go to jail IMO. So please forgive me for condemning someone who's so cheap that they would jeopardize the health and well being of hundreds of thousands of people. You keep turning a blind eye if you want. I don't want these idiots in my government and neither should you. All you seem to care about is keeping some extra cash in some rich guy's pocket. Oh noes! If I pay 1% more taxes some of it will go to slackers! Noooo! The horror!
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Here, read this from the governor's own emails if you still think he was not to blame:

Quote: "the documents provide a glimpse of state leaders who were at times dismissive of the concerns of residents, seemed eager to place responsibility with local government and, even as the scientific testing was hinting at a larger problem, were reluctant to acknowledge it."
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(01-29-2016, 07:12 AM)SickBeast Wrote:
(01-29-2016, 06:54 AM)RolloTheGreat Wrote:
(01-29-2016, 05:59 AM)SickBeast Wrote: Did Rollo seriously just call someone else insane in the brain?  Isn't Rollo the same guy who said the water crisis in Flint was a "non-partisan" issue and basically gave the Republican turkey a free pass?  And now he is calling gstanford insane in the brain?

I will tell you, Rollo, some people may be insane in the membrane, but you are the one that's insane in the brain.

I can't believe they let a half wit like you teach children. Makes me throw up in my mouth the way you use a tragedy that damaged children to hiss snotty childish comments about Republicans.

Finger

You see, that's the thing.  You are not only insane in the membrane, you are also insane in the brain.  I think it's only natural to want to hold someone accountable for such a horrible mistake that had such drastic consequences on so many people.  The guy needs to go to jail IMO.  So please forgive me for condemning someone who's so cheap that they would jeopardize the health and well being of hundreds of thousands of people.  You keep turning a blind eye if you want.  I don't want these idiots in my government and neither should you.  All you seem to care about is keeping some extra cash in some rich guy's pocket.  Oh noes!  If I pay 1% more taxes some of it will go to slackers!  Noooo!  The horror!

Should your family forgive you for being so cheap you bought the HiSense tv and a house in that depressing looking neighborhood in your ice rink picture? Or were you doing the best you could with what you had?

Same deal here dumbass. Their town went BROKE, the state stepped in and tried to run it with NO MONEY.

I don't forgive them or turn a blind eye, I feel sad about the whole situation for all concerned. There will certainly be lawsuits and the plaintiffs will win, but no matter what happens the people still drank chemicals basically because they had the misfortune to live in a dirt poor town because they're dirt poor.
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(01-29-2016, 07:27 AM)RolloTheGreat Wrote:
(01-29-2016, 07:12 AM)SickBeast Wrote:
(01-29-2016, 06:54 AM)RolloTheGreat Wrote:
(01-29-2016, 05:59 AM)SickBeast Wrote: Did Rollo seriously just call someone else insane in the brain?  Isn't Rollo the same guy who said the water crisis in Flint was a "non-partisan" issue and basically gave the Republican turkey a free pass?  And now he is calling gstanford insane in the brain?

I will tell you, Rollo, some people may be insane in the membrane, but you are the one that's insane in the brain.

I can't believe they let a half wit like you teach children. Makes me throw up in my mouth the way you use a tragedy that damaged children to hiss snotty childish comments about Republicans.

Finger

You see, that's the thing.  You are not only insane in the membrane, you are also insane in the brain.  I think it's only natural to want to hold someone accountable for such a horrible mistake that had such drastic consequences on so many people.  The guy needs to go to jail IMO.  So please forgive me for condemning someone who's so cheap that they would jeopardize the health and well being of hundreds of thousands of people.  You keep turning a blind eye if you want.  I don't want these idiots in my government and neither should you.  All you seem to care about is keeping some extra cash in some rich guy's pocket.  Oh noes!  If I pay 1% more taxes some of it will go to slackers!  Noooo!  The horror!

Should your family forgive you for being so cheap you bought the HiSense tv and a house in that depressing looking neighborhood in your ice rink picture? Or were you doing the best you could with what you had?

Same deal here dumbass. Their town went BROKE, the state stepped in and tried to run it with NO MONEY.

I don't forgive them or turn a blind eye, I feel sad about the whole situation for all concerned. There will certainly be lawsuits and the plaintiffs will win, but no matter what happens the people still drank chemicals basically because they had the misfortune to live in a dirt poor town because they're dirt poor.
So you don't think the state should have stepped in with some kind of funding? I mean, the issue with what happened is that I'm sure there are rules and regulations surrounding water quality. The simple fact that they hooked up the feed to a polluted river is just mind boggling to me. So you think all those people should have been expected to just move away? It's not the state's fault because the local government was broke?

I don't know. You do have a bit of a point however the fact that a decision like this was actually made by the government is the problem. What would have been cheaper, have the state fix the water supply, or get sued by thousands of people now?
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Flint and Detroit are full of laid-off ex-workers.  Having no mercy on them is like living in a walled community in South Africa, with cops keeping the blacks out - those rich white people wouldn't dare make friends, hand a dollar, or even talk to black people in fear that they're carrying a disease of some kind.  Is South Africa really a great place for those greedy racist white people?  Want to take a walk in any one of the parks outside of your own private neighborhood without getting raped, or without insurmountable fear of getting raped? 

Everything comes at a price....    is America really improving?  Or not??  Fast forward to year 2030:  US Gov't declares bankruptcy and shuts down over 50% of all gov't services.  CHAOS.  Even the Mexican immigrants are running back to Mexico to find a job!
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(01-29-2016, 07:36 AM)SickBeast Wrote:
(01-29-2016, 07:27 AM)RolloTheGreat Wrote:
(01-29-2016, 07:12 AM)SickBeast Wrote:
(01-29-2016, 06:54 AM)RolloTheGreat Wrote:
(01-29-2016, 05:59 AM)SickBeast Wrote: Did Rollo seriously just call someone else insane in the brain?  Isn't Rollo the same guy who said the water crisis in Flint was a "non-partisan" issue and basically gave the Republican turkey a free pass?  And now he is calling gstanford insane in the brain?

I will tell you, Rollo, some people may be insane in the membrane, but you are the one that's insane in the brain.

I can't believe they let a half wit like you teach children. Makes me throw up in my mouth the way you use a tragedy that damaged children to hiss snotty childish comments about Republicans.

Finger

You see, that's the thing.  You are not only insane in the membrane, you are also insane in the brain.  I think it's only natural to want to hold someone accountable for such a horrible mistake that had such drastic consequences on so many people.  The guy needs to go to jail IMO.  So please forgive me for condemning someone who's so cheap that they would jeopardize the health and well being of hundreds of thousands of people.  You keep turning a blind eye if you want.  I don't want these idiots in my government and neither should you.  All you seem to care about is keeping some extra cash in some rich guy's pocket.  Oh noes!  If I pay 1% more taxes some of it will go to slackers!  Noooo!  The horror!

Should your family forgive you for being so cheap you bought the HiSense tv and a house in that depressing looking neighborhood in your ice rink picture? Or were you doing the best you could with what you had?

Same deal here dumbass. Their town went BROKE, the state stepped in and tried to run it with NO MONEY.

I don't forgive them or turn a blind eye, I feel sad about the whole situation for all concerned. There will certainly be lawsuits and the plaintiffs will win, but no matter what happens the people still drank chemicals basically because they had the misfortune to live in a dirt poor town because they're dirt poor.
So you don't think the state should have stepped in with some kind of funding?  I mean, the issue with what happened is that I'm sure there are rules and regulations surrounding water quality.  The simple fact that they hooked up the feed to a polluted river is just mind boggling to me.  So you think all those people should have been expected to just move away?  It's not the state's fault because the local government was broke?

I don't know.  You do have a bit of a point however the fact that a decision like this was actually made by the government is the problem.  What would have been cheaper, have the state fix the water supply, or get sued by thousands of people now?

Of course Rollo doesn't think the govt should have stepped in with funds.

After all it was only poor people (according to him) that were affected, and if a few poor folk happen to perish then that is less of his precious money wasted in taxes that support "losers", "web cam prostitutes" etc!

If you become too poor to support yourself then you are better off dead than increasing Rollo's tax burden!
Adam knew he should have bought a PC but Eve fell for the marketing hype.

Homeopathy is what happened when snake oil salesmen discovered that water is cheaper than snake oil.

The reason they call it the American Dream is because you have to be asleep to believe it. -- George Carlin
Reply
(01-29-2016, 07:36 AM)SickBeast Wrote:
(01-29-2016, 07:27 AM)RolloTheGreat Wrote:
(01-29-2016, 07:12 AM)SickBeast Wrote:
(01-29-2016, 06:54 AM)RolloTheGreat Wrote:
(01-29-2016, 05:59 AM)SickBeast Wrote: Did Rollo seriously just call someone else insane in the brain?  Isn't Rollo the same guy who said the water crisis in Flint was a "non-partisan" issue and basically gave the Republican turkey a free pass?  And now he is calling gstanford insane in the brain?

I will tell you, Rollo, some people may be insane in the membrane, but you are the one that's insane in the brain.

I can't believe they let a half wit like you teach children. Makes me throw up in my mouth the way you use a tragedy that damaged children to hiss snotty childish comments about Republicans.

Finger

You see, that's the thing.  You are not only insane in the membrane, you are also insane in the brain.  I think it's only natural to want to hold someone accountable for such a horrible mistake that had such drastic consequences on so many people.  The guy needs to go to jail IMO.  So please forgive me for condemning someone who's so cheap that they would jeopardize the health and well being of hundreds of thousands of people.  You keep turning a blind eye if you want.  I don't want these idiots in my government and neither should you.  All you seem to care about is keeping some extra cash in some rich guy's pocket.  Oh noes!  If I pay 1% more taxes some of it will go to slackers!  Noooo!  The horror!

Should your family forgive you for being so cheap you bought the HiSense tv and a house in that depressing looking neighborhood in your ice rink picture? Or were you doing the best you could with what you had?

Same deal here dumbass. Their town went BROKE, the state stepped in and tried to run it with NO MONEY.

I don't forgive them or turn a blind eye, I feel sad about the whole situation for all concerned. There will certainly be lawsuits and the plaintiffs will win, but no matter what happens the people still drank chemicals basically because they had the misfortune to live in a dirt poor town because they're dirt poor.
So you don't think the state should have stepped in with some kind of funding?  I mean, the issue with what happened is that I'm sure there are rules and regulations surrounding water quality.  The simple fact that they hooked up the feed to a polluted river is just mind boggling to me.  So you think all those people should have been expected to just move away?  It's not the state's fault because the local government was broke?

I don't know.  You do have a bit of a point however the fact that a decision like this was actually made by the government is the problem.  What would have been cheaper, have the state fix the water supply, or get sued by thousands of people now?

I think it's a difficult problem and people removed from it don't understand there isn't some magic pool of money.

I work in the Detroit area at times and they tell me of things like the state itself not having enough money and the schools having to layoff off teachers, or close, not having money for current text books, no funding for kids sports and the like.

I've talked to people who have told me of the state not paying their bills.

In hindsight it's really easy to say, "Why the state should have stepped in with the money they don't have, and put in a great water system staffed by top notch people they can't pay.".

First, I want to apologize for saying you yard was depressing. I was very angry because these people are my neighbors (loosely) and the Midwest has suffered from the loss of manufacturing and the union wage scale more than a lot of the country.

The people dealing with the aftermath are not "stupid", they're not "racist", they're not uncaring. They're people trying salvage their hometowns and state in a cash poor economic climate they're not entirely responsible for.

Those "Republican idiots" you revile are just people trying to keep the water running and lights on for people who can't pay for the water and lights.

Should the people in more prosperous states be taxed to pay for Michigan?

I don't know. Should the people in more prosperous cities in Michigan be made to pay for the economic wreckage of Detroit? I don't know.

What I do know is while this may seem like stupidity on the highest order, I can pretty much guarantee there was no malice toward the poor involved.

I recently gave my son a car worth $23,000 to drive to school. If Mrs. Rollo said "F you Rollo, your rippling muscles and flat stomach are gone, and left me with just my income and half the bills, and I had to give Rollo Jr a car worth $2300 that had no airbags, would you be hissing "Stupid Republican! You should have known Rollo Jr would be hurt by that death trap!".?
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Water and sewage are essential services. You ensure they are paid for before anything else, towns and cities can't function if they don't.

That is why in most parts of the world they are a public utility, not farmed out to private enterprise and they cost what they cost to run, budgets mean little for them.
Adam knew he should have bought a PC but Eve fell for the marketing hype.

Homeopathy is what happened when snake oil salesmen discovered that water is cheaper than snake oil.

The reason they call it the American Dream is because you have to be asleep to believe it. -- George Carlin
Reply
(01-29-2016, 07:12 PM)gstanford Wrote: Water and sewage are essential services.  You ensure they are paid for before anything else, towns and cities can't function if they don't.

That is why in most parts of the world they are a public utility, not farmed out to private enterprise and they cost what they cost to run, budgets mean little for them.

I think here they're basically city run businesses, paid for by the bills for service. (and that's why stuff like this can happen on a city by city basis)
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This article (18 CEOs Called Out By Bernie Sanders For Taking Trillions In Bailouts, Evading Taxes, and Outsourcing Jobs) is free and open source.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

1) Bank of America CEO Brian Moynihan
Amount of federal income taxes paid in 2010? Zero. $1.9 billion tax refund.
Taxpayer Bailout from the Federal Reserve and the Treasury Department? Over $1.3 trillion.
Amount of federal income taxes Bank of America would have owed if offshore tax havens were eliminated? $2.6 billion.

2) Goldman Sachs CEO Lloyd Blankfein
Amount of federal income taxes paid in 2008? Zero. $278 million tax refund.
Taxpayer Bailout from the Federal Reserve and the Treasury Department? $824 billion.
Amount of federal income taxes Goldman Sachs would have owed if offshore tax havens were eliminated? $2.7 billion

3) JP Morgan Chase CEO James Dimon
Taxpayer Bailout from the Federal Reserve and the Treasury Department? $416 billion.
Amount of federal income taxes JP Morgan Chase would have owed if offshore tax havens were eliminated? $4.9 billion.

4) General Electric CEO Jeffrey Immelt
Amount of federal income taxes paid in 2010? Zero. $3.3 billion tax refund.
Taxpayer Bailout from the Federal Reserve? $16 billion.
Jobs Shipped Overseas? At least 25,000 since 2001.

5) Verizon CEO Lowell McAdam
Amount of federal income taxes paid in 2010? Zero. $705 million tax refund.
American Jobs Cut in 2010? In 2010, Verizon announced 13,000 job cuts, the third highest corporate layoff total that year.

6) Boeing CEO James McNerney, Jr.
Amount of federal income taxes paid in 2010? None. $124 million tax refund.
American Jobs Shipped overseas? Over 57,000.
Amount of Corporate Welfare? At least $58 billion.

7) Microsoft CEO Steve Ballmer
Amount of federal income taxes Microsoft would have owed if offshore tax havens were eliminated? $19.4 billion.
8) Honeywell International CEO David Cote
Amount of federal income taxes paid from 2008-2010? Zero. $34 million tax refund.

9) Corning CEO Wendell Weeks
Amount of federal income taxes paid from 2008-2010? Zero. $4 million tax refund.

10) Time Warner CEO Glenn Britt
Amount of federal income taxes paid in 2008? Zero. $74 million tax refund.

11). Merck CEO Kenneth Frazier
Amount of federal income taxes paid in 2009? Zero. $55 million tax refund.

12) Deere & Company CEO Samuel Allen
Amount of federal income taxes paid in 2009? Zero. $1 million tax refund.

13) Marsh & McLennan Companies CEO Brian Duperreault
Amount of federal income taxes paid in 2010? Zero. $90 million refund.

14) Qualcomm CEO Paul Jacobs
Amount of federal income taxes Qualcomm would have owed if offshore tax havens were eliminated? $4.7 billion.

15) Tenneco CEO Gregg Sherill
Amount of federal income taxes Tenneco would have owed if offshore tax havens were eliminated? $269 million.

16) Express Scripts CEO George Paz
Amount of federal income taxes Express Scripts would have owed if offshore tax havens were eliminated? $20 million.

17) Caesars Entertainment CEO Gary Loveman
Amount of federal income taxes Caesars Entertainment would have owed if offshore tax havens were eliminated? $9 million.

18). R.R. Donnelly & Sons CEO Thomas Quinlan III
Amount of federal income taxes paid in 2008? Zero. $49 million tax refund.


Hit_head
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From this site:  http://www.equality-of-opportunity.org/

(Regarding upwards mobility for children when moving to better, more affluent parts of the country)

[Image: Hockey.PNG]
Quote:This figure plots the percentage gain from moving to a better area by the age at which the child moves. For example, children who move at age 9 have outcomes that are about 50% between the outcomes of children who grow up permanently in the origin and destination areas.

PITTSBURGH?!????   Pittsburgh is used as a "better" city???  Is that what America really is coming to?!?   Rolleyes


The Causal Effects of Growing up in Different Counties on Earnings in Adulthood

Percentage Gains/Losses Relative to National Average

[Image: Slide6.PNG]
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(01-29-2016, 07:03 PM)RolloTheGreat Wrote:
(01-29-2016, 07:36 AM)SickBeast Wrote:
(01-29-2016, 07:27 AM)RolloTheGreat Wrote:
(01-29-2016, 07:12 AM)SickBeast Wrote:
(01-29-2016, 06:54 AM)RolloTheGreat Wrote: I can't believe they let a half wit like you teach children. Makes me throw up in my mouth the way you use a tragedy that damaged children to hiss snotty childish comments about Republicans.

Finger

You see, that's the thing.  You are not only insane in the membrane, you are also insane in the brain.  I think it's only natural to want to hold someone accountable for such a horrible mistake that had such drastic consequences on so many people.  The guy needs to go to jail IMO.  So please forgive me for condemning someone who's so cheap that they would jeopardize the health and well being of hundreds of thousands of people.  You keep turning a blind eye if you want.  I don't want these idiots in my government and neither should you.  All you seem to care about is keeping some extra cash in some rich guy's pocket.  Oh noes!  If I pay 1% more taxes some of it will go to slackers!  Noooo!  The horror!

Should your family forgive you for being so cheap you bought the HiSense tv and a house in that depressing looking neighborhood in your ice rink picture? Or were you doing the best you could with what you had?

Same deal here dumbass. Their town went BROKE, the state stepped in and tried to run it with NO MONEY.

I don't forgive them or turn a blind eye, I feel sad about the whole situation for all concerned. There will certainly be lawsuits and the plaintiffs will win, but no matter what happens the people still drank chemicals basically because they had the misfortune to live in a dirt poor town because they're dirt poor.
So you don't think the state should have stepped in with some kind of funding?  I mean, the issue with what happened is that I'm sure there are rules and regulations surrounding water quality.  The simple fact that they hooked up the feed to a polluted river is just mind boggling to me.  So you think all those people should have been expected to just move away?  It's not the state's fault because the local government was broke?

I don't know.  You do have a bit of a point however the fact that a decision like this was actually made by the government is the problem.  What would have been cheaper, have the state fix the water supply, or get sued by thousands of people now?

I think it's a difficult problem and people removed from it don't understand there isn't some magic pool of money.

I work in the Detroit area at times and they tell me of things like the state itself not having enough money and the schools having to layoff off teachers, or close, not having money for current text books, no funding for kids sports and the like.

I've talked to people who have told me of the state not paying their bills.

In hindsight it's really easy to say, "Why the state should have stepped in with the money they don't have, and put in a great water system staffed by top notch people they can't pay.".

First, I want to apologize for saying you yard was depressing. I was very angry because these people are my neighbors (loosely) and the Midwest has suffered from the loss of manufacturing and the union wage scale more than a lot of the country.

The people dealing with the aftermath are not "stupid", they're not "racist", they're not uncaring. They're people trying salvage their hometowns and state in a cash poor economic climate they're not entirely responsible for.

Those "Republican idiots" you revile are just people trying to keep the water running and lights on for people who can't pay for the water and lights.

Should the people in more prosperous states be taxed to pay for Michigan?

I don't know. Should the people in more prosperous cities in Michigan be made to pay for the economic wreckage of Detroit? I don't know.

What I do know is while this may seem like stupidity on the highest order, I can pretty much guarantee there was no malice toward the poor involved.

I recently gave my son a car worth $23,000 to drive to school. If Mrs. Rollo said "F you Rollo, your rippling muscles and flat stomach are gone, and left me with just my income and half the bills, and I had to give Rollo Jr a car worth $2300 that had no airbags, would you be hissing "Stupid Republican! You should have known Rollo Jr would be hurt by that death trap!".?
I appreciate the apology.  Just for the record I would appreciate it if you would drop the name calling along with your nonsense comments about my abilities as a professional.  To be frank with you, you don't even know me.  I don't care how much we disagree on an issue, that's just not cool with me.  I was completely kidding with you with my "insane in the brain" comments and that was inspired by the video that you posted to begin with.  I'm all for some banter back and forth, I just draw the line when things get personal.  I realize that you were having a bad night or something.  Again, I appreciate the apology.

As for the debate, yes, you make some valid points.  I don't see much point in reiterating my own viewpoint at this point.  I will say, however, that I read your comments about the Detroit area and I find it heartbreaking.  I'm not saying that bigger government is the answer.  I will just say that there has to be a better way for you guys to do something.  I do know that even in our poorest communities here in Canada, our education system is top notch.  Same with our utilities (in most cases).  We did have a tainted water scandal at one point but IIRC it was due to negligence and human error.  It was not because they hooked up the main feed to a polluted source like what they did in Flint.

I see your point and yes, I will admit that as a taxpayer where I live I would be annoyed if my taxes had to go to bail out a city like Flint because they mismanaged their money or whatever.  But I will say that I would feel good at the end of the day if $10 or even $100 had to come out of my own pocket so that an entire city could have clean water.  Something could have been arranged.  A loan.  A bailout.  Something.  If the government can bail out huge banks for trillions of dollars, why can't they bail out a city when they are having a crisis like this?  Why did it have to come to this?  I would get it if they made an honest mistake but by all accounts everyone knew that the river was polluted to begin with.  The water was coming out of the taps brown and they said to keep drinking it.  The entire situation does not sit right with me.

This is the problem with Republicans and a lot of people in government in general.  They value businesses and money more than they value people.  Yes, we need businesses to drive our economy and give us all food to eat.  But at the end of the day it's our people that run our entire countries.  You have to take care of both to be successful.

At the end of the day, money is just one of the things we have. You can't take it with you when you die. IMO it's going to do a lot more good helping out the poor and the people in need in this world than it is going to do in some rich guy's bank account. Heck, the rich don't even pay taxes, they keep all their money off shore. And yet you want to tax them less? It just doesn't make sense.
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(01-27-2016, 10:57 PM)dmcowen674 Wrote: Trumps pulls out of GOP debate because of Fox Moderator Megyn Kelly

And then loses out at the Iowa caucus because of this?  Trump was just entertainment like the Clintons said...


But Clillary winning over Bernie Sanders by less than 1%?  What disgrace!  This will haunt America for a long time....
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(01-30-2016, 03:29 AM)SickBeast Wrote: I appreciate the apology.  Just for the record I would appreciate it if you would drop the name calling along with your nonsense comments about my abilities as a professional.  To be frank with you, you don't even know me.  I don't care how much we disagree on an issue, that's just not cool with me.  I was completely kidding with you with my "insane in the brain" comments and that was inspired by the video that you posted to begin with.  I'm all for some banter back and forth, I just draw the line when things get personal.  I realize that you were having a bad night or something.  Again, I appreciate the apology.

As for the debate, yes, you make some valid points.  I don't see much point in reiterating my own viewpoint at this point.  I will say, however, that I read your comments about the Detroit area and I find it heartbreaking.  I'm not saying that bigger government is the answer.  I will just say that there has to be a better way for you guys to do something.  I do know that even in our poorest communities here in Canada, our education system is top notch.  Same with our utilities (in most cases).  We did have a tainted water scandal at one point but IIRC it was due to negligence and human error.  It was not because they hooked up the main feed to a polluted source like what they did in Flint.

I see your point and yes, I will admit that as a taxpayer where I live I would be annoyed if my taxes had to go to bail out a city like Flint because they mismanaged their money or whatever.  But I will say that I would feel good at the end of the day if $10 or even $100 had to come out of my own pocket so that an entire city could have clean water.  Something could have been arranged.  A loan.  A bailout.  Something.  If the government can bail out huge banks for trillions of dollars, why can't they bail out a city when they are having a crisis like this?  Why did it have to come to this?  I would get it if they made an honest mistake but by all accounts everyone knew that the river was polluted to begin with.  The water was coming out of the taps brown and they said to keep drinking it.  The entire situation does not sit right with me.

This is the problem with Republicans and a lot of people in government in general.  They value businesses and money more than they value people.  Yes, we need businesses to drive our economy and give us all food to eat.  But at the end of the day it's our people that run our entire countries.  You have to take care of both to be successful.

At the end of the day, money is just one of the things we have.  You can't take it with you when you die.  IMO it's going to do a lot more good helping out the poor and the people in need in this world than it is going to do in some rich guy's bank account.  Heck, the rich don't even pay taxes, they keep all their money off shore.  And yet you want to tax them less?  It just doesn't make sense.

I don't know what info led to the decisions at Flint, but I'd bet money they didn't knowingly say "Lets give them tainted water, maybe no one will notice.

I do know the lead in the water comes from the lead pipe infrastructure and the aging coating of the pipes decaying, not the river water itself.

http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/flint-w...go-n510116

Water pipes around the world are made of lead and in the process of being swapped out due to this issue.

https://www.safeplumbing.org/health-safe...n-plumbing

As far as the brown water goes, I was sitting by the edge of the lake at my cabin a few years back when a neighbor came by in his boat, bass fishing. The water is as brown as coffee with cream, stained by tree roots. That guy told me he had it tested, and that the quality actually was better than you would think to look at it. Said he boils it to kill bacteria, and uses it to make "swampwater" cocktails that he drinks out of a mason jar.

Point being that water being discolored doesn't necessarily mean it's toxic, or untreatable.

This isn't me excusing the MI government, public safety is job one for government.

Yes it is depressing. When you show up in a town where they tell you, "We used to make a part for Ford that we sold them for $150, then they started buying it from China for $30 and we lost our main employer." it breaks your heart hearing about how it rippled through the town economy and left them broke. They didn't mismanage anything- they just live in a place where a living wage is far higher than China and foreign competition forced Ford to cut corners to compete.

That is why I buy a truck built in America every 3 years, and a boat built in America every 5-6. If people like me don't support American labor, who will?
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^^^ They already knew that there was far too much chloride in the river.  As you know, chloride is highly corrosive - it would wreak havoc on the old water pipe infrastructure, costing the city over a billion dollars in a few years down the road when a complete sewer system overhaul is needed.  Hence the lead leaks from the corroded pipes. 

Quote:Michigan Congresswoman Candice Miller also introduced a bill asking for $1 billion in federal funding to help replace Flint's underground water line infrastructure.


It's not just the lead but the chlorine treatment (although the water company had to treat the water with as much as 10 times the amount of chlorine which was already very unsafe and exceeding the regulations, in the first place) that all disappears with so much iron oxide rust in the water from the pipes (which remove the chlorine from the water by the time it reaches the household).

Flint was in the process of building its own pipes for direct water supply from Lake Huron, by 2016.  After the 50 year contract with Detroit expired, Flint certainly could have extended it by just 1 year instead of doing a complete switch-over (which was probably just as costly to do so).  Detroit got greedy, then Flint had a knee-jerk reaction to it.  

Instead, Flint decided to use its own river which required unsafe levels of chlorine to begin with.

Just today, FBI is now investigating the case (as to if laws were intentionally broken):
http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/flint-w...is-n509686

We'll see soon, I guess.

Quote:A 2011 study found that before water from the Flint River could be considered potable, it would need to be treated with an anti-corrosion agent, a measure that would have cost the state about $100 a day.

Experts say that water treatment would have prevented 90% of the problems with Flint's water.


Quote:The Flint River has significant sewage input, and if the treatment plant does not completely remove the bacteria and other dangers posed by the sewage, high coliforms and public health risks can result. The TTHMs are formed when naturally occurring organic compounds (i.e., decaying leaves and grass and plants) present in the water react with the free chlorine, which is added to destroy the fecal bacteria that may be present in the Flint River water (see Dr. Joan B. Rose’s guide to TTHMs in Flint Water). High TTHM levels are a health concern and are suspected to cause a wide array of health problems with long term exposure.

Quote:Flint residents complained that the water coming through their taps was brown and emitted a rank odor. In August 2014, officials found E. coli in the water and added extra chlorine to kill the bacteria. But that only made things worse.

The chlorine created a chemical byproduct called trihalomethane, or TTHM, a carcinogen that showed up in water samples throughout 2014. By Jan. 15, the levels were so high that, under federal law, officials had to notify the residents.
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If that were your son, you'd be pissed:


Quote:In February, Walters filmed a video of her son, Gavin, to show doctors how his skin was reacting after baths.

“He gets in the tub and there’s a water line across his stomach from the waist down,” she said, describing the video. “He’s breaking out in this nasty, scaly, burning, itchy rash, and if you put lotion on it, it burns him. He would scream ’cause it hurt.”
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Quote:During a presidential debate on Jan. 17, Hillary Clinton blamed racism and classism — 40.1 percent of Flint residents live in poverty while 55 percent are black — for the state’s slow response. Her rival for the Democratic nomination, Vermont Sen. Bernie Sanders, called for Snyder’s job.

http://mashable.com/2016/01/24/flint-wat...kkako6mkqa
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(02-03-2016, 09:36 PM)BoFox Wrote:
Quote:During a presidential debate on Jan. 17, Hillary Clinton blamed racism and classism — 40.1 percent of Flint residents live in poverty while 55 percent are black — for the state’s slow response. Her rival for the Democratic nomination, Vermont Sen. Bernie Sanders, called for Snyder’s job.

http://mashable.com/2016/01/24/flint-wat...kkako6mkqa

Billary is politician angling for votes.

There's no doubt Flint's lack of money has something to do with the water situation, there's no reason to suspect racism has anything to do with it.

Kind of like Gstan and Mrs. Rollo:

http://www.iihs.org/iihs/ratings/vehicle...sedan/2015

http://www.iihs.org/iihs/ratings/vehicle...door-sedan

I spend a few bucks more and Mrs Rollo drives a "top safety pick". GStan spends a few bucks less and gets "acceptable" or "marginal" safety ratings.

Which is not to say the people of Flint deserved poison water, or that they don't deserve what they're going to rightfully get in their class action suit, or that I don't feel very bad for them.

I do, and you're right, blood would be shooting out my ears if it was Rollo Jr..

What I am saying is that where money is non existent, corners get cut, mistakes are more likely. The towns where the rich people live and always pay their bills have top notch staff hanging around trying to make life better for the rich people.

I agree with SB that water supply in America should be uniform, and taxed if that is what needs to happen. We can't turn into some pathetic place where you don't even get to drink clean water if you live in a poor town.
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If Trump would have kept his fresh mouth shut he would have had a chance. It's not looking good so far. I've thought about it and you don't want someone like that in charge of your country. What if he says something ridiculous to another world leader? How do you think Putin would respond? It's a shame because I think otherwise Trump was a very appealing candidate for a lot of people. He should have stuck to issues like the economy. He went off on all sorts of groups of people to the point that he has no chance now. All he has left are the people he has not offended and that group is growing smaller by the day. It's too bad.
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(02-04-2016, 04:42 AM)SickBeast Wrote: If Trump would have kept his fresh mouth shut he would have had a chance.  It's not looking good so far.  I've thought about it and you don't want someone like that in charge of your country.  What if he says something ridiculous to another world leader?  How do you think Putin would respond?  It's a shame because I think otherwise Trump was a very appealing candidate for a lot of people.  He should have stuck to issues like the economy.  He went off on all sorts of groups of people to the point that he has no chance now.  All he has left are the people he has not offended and that group is growing smaller by the day.  It's too bad.

The nice thing about being Trump is president or not, your life is better than 99% of the rest of the planet anyway.

No clue why he even wants to be president, I'd just enjoy life if I were him. No working, period.
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For some people it's the power. Either that or they genuinely feel that they could make a real difference. I sense a lack of genuineness from Trump. It looks like a lot of Americans are picking up on it as well. I don't know why he feels the need to go off on entire groups of people the way he does. With Trump actually he could just enjoy the attention and the publicity. He probably goes home at the end of the day and reads about himself online.

I agree with you that if I were him I would just relax and enjoy my money.

Rollo actually I thought you would be one person that would relate well to Trump. You both share a similar bombast.
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(02-04-2016, 06:59 AM)SickBeast Wrote: For some people it's the power.  Either that or they genuinely feel that they could make a real difference.  I sense a lack of genuineness from Trump.  It looks like a lot of Americans are picking up on it as well.  I don't know why he feels the need to go off on entire groups of people the way he does.  With Trump actually he could just enjoy the attention and the publicity.  He probably goes home at the end of the day and reads about himself online.

I agree with you that if I were him I would just relax and enjoy my money.

Rollo actually I thought you would be one person that would relate well to Trump.  You both share a similar bombast.

I'm impressed by Trump's aptitude for earning money, and his ability to appeal to a sector of voters with his carefully crafted speech.

I'm a lot smarter than the people he's crafting his speech for, and as such, his sophistry does not fly with me.
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If Trump is not nominated by the Republicans can he still run an an independent?
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I don't see why he couldn't run as an independent, nothing would be stopping him other than his willingness to open his wallet.

and rollo:

Quote:I'm a lot smarter than the people he's crafting his speech for, and as such, his sophistry does not fly with me.

Guess what - I'm a lot smarter than you and therefore your bullshit doesn't fly with me!   ROFLMAO
Adam knew he should have bought a PC but Eve fell for the marketing hype.

Homeopathy is what happened when snake oil salesmen discovered that water is cheaper than snake oil.

The reason they call it the American Dream is because you have to be asleep to believe it. -- George Carlin
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(02-05-2016, 08:22 AM)gstanford Wrote: and rollo:

Quote:I'm a lot smarter than the people he's crafting his speech for, and as such, his sophistry does not fly with me.

Guess what - I'm a lot smarter than you and therefore your bullshit doesn't fly with me!   ROFLMAO

I'll just say, "When people I wouldn't trade places with tell me they are smarter than I am, or have advice for me, I don't pay much attention."

I once had a guy wearing a very old and low quality suit, who drove a very old and dilapidated car, pitch me on handling my investments. Said he had the true path to wealth.

I said to him, "I'm sorry, and I mean no offense, but you don't look very prosperous yourself. Why would I trust you with my money when it doesn't appear you can earn any of your own?". Which pretty much ended the conversation.

You may well have triple my IQ GStan, I don't know. I do know I'm pretty happy with my life as is, and prefer it to yours based on what I know of yours. So I say, "If you truly are smarter than I am, good for you. I hope it serves you well."
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I live a life that I am happy with Rollo, whether you would be happy with it I don't know and don't care to find out. I don't live my life wondering if I've got one up on the Jones' or not.
Adam knew he should have bought a PC but Eve fell for the marketing hype.

Homeopathy is what happened when snake oil salesmen discovered that water is cheaper than snake oil.

The reason they call it the American Dream is because you have to be asleep to believe it. -- George Carlin
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