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Why you don't set the minimum wage to $70K
#1
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/08/02/busine....html?_r=0


Go figure-

The people who used to make that quitting because they think their degrees and skills should mean they earn more than the guy that sorts the mail.

The customers choose other businesses because they think this one is fiscally irresponsible.

The "trend of the future", right Dave and GStan?

Sure.......we'll ALL make at least $70K because it would be nice.....even the guy that makes our burgers at lunch- $70K!

Joint
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#2
The people that left and whining like babies are spoiled brats.

$70,000 would mean not living check to check to survive.

If I lived in Seattle I would work there. His web developer did leave.

Maybe he'll see this. Only way I could go there was if he paid for re-location.

When you live check to check you are stuck where you are.
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#3
Some of his customers unilaterally left based on unfounded concerns about possible fee hikes (which they were assured would not happen), but he has gained more than enough new customers to offset those that left(most likely with a conservative political agenda to match Rollo's).

The employees who quit over the pay rises are better off gone. They have demonstrated that they put themselves above other employees working there. They are not effective team players in my books and I certainly wouldn't employ them with attitudes like that.

I'm sure Dan will resolve his differences with his brother Lucas too, and I'm equally confident he won't reneg on his 70K minimum wage offer to employees while doing so.

Dan Price is made of the right stuff and we need many more like him in this world.
Adam knew he should have bought a PC but Eve fell for the marketing hype.

Homeopathy is what happened when snake oil salesmen discovered that water is cheaper than snake oil.

The reason they call it the American Dream is because you have to be asleep to believe it. -- George Carlin
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#4
(08-01-2015, 06:13 PM)gstanford Wrote: Some of his customers unilaterally left based on unfounded concerns about possible fee hikes (which they were assured would not happen), but he has gained more than enough new customers to offset those that left(most likely with a conservative political agenda to match Rollo's).

The employees who quit over the pay rises are better off gone.  They have demonstrated that they put themselves above other employees working there.  [B}They are not effective team players in my books and I certainly wouldn't employ them with attitudes like that.[/B]

I'm sure Dan will resolve his differences with his brother Lucas too, and I'm equally confident he won't reneg on his 70K minimum wage offer to employees while doing so.

Dan Price is made of the right stuff and we need many more like him in this world.

Do you employ anyone GStan?

If so, how do your attorneys and accountants like making the same money as your mail room people and janitors? Are they "good team players" and saying, "Seems fair to me I had to spend years of my life and $100,000 on my college degree and Bubba makes the same money as I do. Bubba needs money too, and we're all on the same team!"

LOL only a crackhead would think Dan Price's company makes any sense.

There's nothing wrong with paying above market rate to keep turnover low and have your pick of the best employees. That sort of thing is done all the time.

Where Dan fails is thinking the people who were making $70K because they have job skills that are worth $70K are going to just take it when he doubles the pay of the entry level staff and leaves theirs the same, saying "You're all employees, you should all make the same!"

As noted, no one is following his lead.
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#5
(08-02-2015, 02:39 AM)RolloTheGreat Wrote: Do you employ anyone GStan?

If so, how do your attorneys and accountants like making the same money as your mail room people and janitors? Are they "good team players" and saying, "Seems fair to me I had to spend years of my life and $100,000 on my college degree and Bubba makes the same money as I do. Bubba needs money too, and we're all on the same team!"

LOL only a crackhead would think Dan Price's company makes any sense.

There's nothing wrong with paying above market rate to keep turnover low and have your pick of the best employees. That sort of thing is done all the time.

Where Dan fails is thinking the people who were making $70K because they have job skills that are worth $70K are going to just take it when he doubles the pay of the entry level staff and leaves theirs the same, saying "You're all employees, you should all make the same!"

As noted, no one is following his lead.
GStan is absolutely right.  To paraphrase Hubert H. Humphrey: "the time has come for the business world to get out of the shadow of job position rights and walk forthrightly into the bright sunshine of human rights!"
Valve hater, Nintendo hater, Microsoft defender, AMD hater, Google Fiber hater, 4K lover, net neutrality lover.
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#6
We are all paid the same at the Access Centre. So long as you can fulfill the duties listed in your job description you are no better or worse than anyone else.

Cleaning/maintenance duties are handled by the building owners.
Adam knew he should have bought a PC but Eve fell for the marketing hype.

Homeopathy is what happened when snake oil salesmen discovered that water is cheaper than snake oil.

The reason they call it the American Dream is because you have to be asleep to believe it. -- George Carlin
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#7
(08-02-2015, 06:07 AM)SteelCrysis Wrote: GStan is absolutely right.  To paraphrase Hubert H. Humphrey: "the time has come for the business world to get out of the shadow of job position rights and walk forthrightly into the bright sunshine of human rights!"

Sorry dude, but Hubert Humprey of the Farm Labor Party is smoking the pot pipe as well.

Why would anyone actually waste years of their life learning a skilled trade, and spend the $100K on a college education if they could just put on a paper hat and start handing the donuts and coffee out and make the same money?

They WOULDN'T because it is WORK, and people don't do work with out the expectation of something in return.

They wouldn't because it's a great amount of MONEY, and people don't invest a great amount of money without getting something in return.

The only people who think everyone should earn the same money are:
A. Communists
B. Those who didn't do the work or spend the money
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#8
(08-02-2015, 06:52 AM)RolloTheGreat Wrote: Sorry dude, but Hubert Humprey of the Farm Labor Party is smoking the pot pipe as well.

Why would anyone actually waste years of their life learning a skilled trade, and spend the $100K on a college education if they could just put on a paper hat and start handing the donuts and coffee out and make the same money?

They WOULDN'T because it is WORK, and people don't do work with out the expectation of something in return.

They wouldn't because it's a great amount of MONEY, and people don't invest a great amount of money without getting something in return.

The only people who think everyone should earn the same money are:
A. Communists
B. Those who didn't do the work or spend the money
Who said the skilled trade dudes can't make a few percent more than the nobodies?
Valve hater, Nintendo hater, Microsoft defender, AMD hater, Google Fiber hater, 4K lover, net neutrality lover.
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#9
Like Apoppin, GStan does not understand what "fair" means.

He thinks other people should have to sacrifice the work and the money, and he should get the rewards they earned. Just like Apoppin thinks other people should earn the money to pay for his healthcare, even though he could earn it himself.
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#10
Nobody forces anyone to over-qualify themselves for work and then attach great expectations on to that.

Like I said the only thing that matters is if you are capable of performing the duties listed in your job description or not.
Adam knew he should have bought a PC but Eve fell for the marketing hype.

Homeopathy is what happened when snake oil salesmen discovered that water is cheaper than snake oil.

The reason they call it the American Dream is because you have to be asleep to believe it. -- George Carlin
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#11
(08-02-2015, 07:01 AM)SteelCrysis Wrote: Who said the skilled trade dudes can't make a few percent more than the nobodies?

Goes back to the concept of "fair".

It's not fair to spend years learning better skills and tons of money for a few percent.
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#12
(08-02-2015, 07:17 AM)RolloTheGreat Wrote:
(08-02-2015, 07:01 AM)SteelCrysis Wrote: Who said the skilled trade dudes can't make a few percent more than the nobodies?

Goes back to the concept of "fair".

It's not fair to spend years learning better skills and tons of money for a few percent.

And who forced you to do that? You chose to do it, you live with the financial consequences!
Adam knew he should have bought a PC but Eve fell for the marketing hype.

Homeopathy is what happened when snake oil salesmen discovered that water is cheaper than snake oil.

The reason they call it the American Dream is because you have to be asleep to believe it. -- George Carlin
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#13
(08-02-2015, 07:14 AM)gstanford Wrote: Nobody forces anyone to over-qualify themselves for work and then attach great expectations on to that.

Like I said the only thing that matters is if you are capable of performing the duties listed in your job description or not.

You're evading the issue because you know I'm right.

A Dr. is not "over qualified"- he/she is a person who has paid the money and work to learn his trade, not the burger flipper.

The engineer is not "over qualified" he/she is a person who has done the work and paid the money.

The difference between us is I know I didn't do the work and pay the money to become a physician, but I did the work and paid a lot more than the guy who makes my lunch.

As such I deserve much less than the former, much more than the latter.
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#14
If a doctor can learn their trade at a community college rather than a private university and they choose the private university over the community college, then yes they are paying too much for their education and that is their own choice and own risk.
Adam knew he should have bought a PC but Eve fell for the marketing hype.

Homeopathy is what happened when snake oil salesmen discovered that water is cheaper than snake oil.

The reason they call it the American Dream is because you have to be asleep to believe it. -- George Carlin
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#15
(08-02-2015, 07:20 AM)gstanford Wrote:
(08-02-2015, 07:17 AM)RolloTheGreat Wrote:
(08-02-2015, 07:01 AM)SteelCrysis Wrote: Who said the skilled trade dudes can't make a few percent more than the nobodies?

Goes back to the concept of "fair".

It's not fair to spend years learning better skills and tons of money for a few percent.

And who forced you to do that?  You chose to do it, you live with the financial consequences!

I am.

This morning I went boating and fishing with my brother in my $30K boat. I was better off than the guys with the $1K boats, not as well off as the guys with the $60K boats.

This afternoon I went to my backwoods shack on a small lake, had a picnic with my wife, then we paddled one of our canoes and I caught a few bass. I was better off than the people who went to the public parks, not as well off as the guys with nice cabins on big lakes, and they are not as well off as the guys with bigger houses on lakes they own for themselves.

The difference between you and me is I don't think I'm owed the nice cabin on the big lake, or the better cabin with it's own lake.

I understand I made my choices and am happy with the outcomes, even though I know many people more wealthy than myself.
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#16
I don't believe I am owed or entitled to anything. I do believe that if I do a fair days work that I should be compensated with fair pay.
Adam knew he should have bought a PC but Eve fell for the marketing hype.

Homeopathy is what happened when snake oil salesmen discovered that water is cheaper than snake oil.

The reason they call it the American Dream is because you have to be asleep to believe it. -- George Carlin
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#17
(08-02-2015, 08:23 AM)gstanford Wrote: I don't believe I am owed or entitled to anything.  I do believe that if I do a fair days work that I should be compensated with fair pay.

Doesn't sound that way.

I don't see anything "fair" about giving the lower skilled employees a HUGE raise, and not giving the higher skilled employees a similar raise.

You work in some sort of computer shop IIRC.

As such you probably have some tech skills. If the owner of the tech shop comes in Monday and says, "Good news GStan! I read your posts on ABT! We're going to pay Louie the janitor the same as we pay you, because you don't think you're above other people! I think you should take Louie to lunch to celebrate my egalitarian gesture!"
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#18
I am the owner.

If I were not the owner and the boss decided to pay the janitor the same as me (we don't have a janitor, that is a function provided by the building owner), I would be happy for the janitor.

The boss would have no legal power to force me to take the janitor out to lunch at my expense though and thus I wouldn't do that. If the boss paid for both of us to go out to lunch at the company's expense I'd be only too happy to comply.
Adam knew he should have bought a PC but Eve fell for the marketing hype.

Homeopathy is what happened when snake oil salesmen discovered that water is cheaper than snake oil.

The reason they call it the American Dream is because you have to be asleep to believe it. -- George Carlin
Reply
#19
(08-02-2015, 10:12 AM)gstanford Wrote: I am the owner.

If I were not the owner and the boss decided to pay the janitor the same as me (we don't have a janitor, that is a function provided by the building owner), I would be happy for the janitor.

The boss would have no legal power to force me to take the janitor out to lunch at my expense though and thus I wouldn't do that.  If the boss paid for both of us to go out to lunch at the company's expense I'd be only too happy to comply.

Now we're getting somewhere.

Do you have employees? if so, do they make the same amount of money?

Are they all making $70K USD/year?
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#20
I run the computer shop by myself Outside of enthusiasts not a real lot of demand nowadays. Sell more parts than I assemble systems these days. For the average joe laptops and tablets have taken over from desktop and those who still use desktop at home tend to build it themselves. Lots of repair/maintenance style work too, but even that is predominately laptop.

However I am also employed by the Access Centre (share building space with them and do most of my work there). All Access Centre employees are paid the same. The centre is equal opportunity and non discriminatory.
Adam knew he should have bought a PC but Eve fell for the marketing hype.

Homeopathy is what happened when snake oil salesmen discovered that water is cheaper than snake oil.

The reason they call it the American Dream is because you have to be asleep to believe it. -- George Carlin
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#21
As a businesss owner, you decide what is a fair price for your work and the market either pays it or doesn't.

I don't know what "Access Center" is, I doubt "everyone gets paid the same" will ever catch on here.

The whole premise of our economic system is that people can get ahead and have a better life if they do the work and invest in themselves.

Everyone CAN'T make high pay to do all things, the money just isn't there. At your computer shop, there is apparently not enough profit for you to employ even one person. (or even solely support yourself) At a sandwich shop, if all the employees made $70K, the business would go broke instantly.

It's also not fair for everyone to make the same amount. Maybe if everyone is standing on an assembly line and they all pull the drill press handle 800X a day, but if one guy is a janitor, one guy is a network tech, one guy is a lawyer, and the last guy is an accountant, to pay them all the same is Joint
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#22
(08-02-2015, 05:32 PM)RolloTheGreat Wrote: It's also not fair for everyone to make the same amount. Maybe if everyone is standing on an assembly line and they all pull the drill press handle 800X a day, but if one guy is a janitor, one guy is a network tech, one guy is a lawyer, and the last guy is an accountant, to pay them all the same is Joint

That is where you are totally wrong. In society you are expected to contribute. In return for contributing you get to live within that society and partake of its benefits. In modern times the way this is done is that you are paid money in return for working (contributing) and you then use that money to live within the society.

In your quote above you are discriminating against peoples contributions. They all contribute. There is no reason why one contributor should get more than another.
Adam knew he should have bought a PC but Eve fell for the marketing hype.

Homeopathy is what happened when snake oil salesmen discovered that water is cheaper than snake oil.

The reason they call it the American Dream is because you have to be asleep to believe it. -- George Carlin
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#23
(08-02-2015, 05:45 PM)gstanford Wrote:
(08-02-2015, 05:32 PM)RolloTheGreat Wrote: It's also not fair for everyone to make the same amount. Maybe if everyone is standing on an assembly line and they all pull the drill press handle 800X a day, but if one guy is a janitor, one guy is a network tech, one guy is a lawyer, and the last guy is an accountant, to pay them all the same is Joint

That is where you are totally wrong.  In society you are expected to contribute.  In return for contributing you get to live within that society and partake of its benefits.  In modern times the way this is done is that you are paid money in return for working (contributing) and you then use that money to live within the society.

In your quote above you are discriminating against peoples contributions.  They all contribute.  There is no reason why one contributor should get more than another.

:silly: :silly: :silly:

Communist Comrade GStan, what is the incentive for people to spend $100,000 of their own money and years of their lives, and then do more stressful and difficult jobs if they could make the same money pushing a broom or flipping a burger?

Even if the college was free, there is still the years of work learning your skill and then the harder work- why would people do this?

Of course, I could also note that what you desire has been tried and then abandoned everywhere it was tried (China, USSR) because it just doesn't work.

Look at the ten richest nations on the planet, where people have the highest per capita income Comrade GStan:

http://www.mapsofworld.com/world-top-ten...s-map.html

Do you see any communist nations there?

So you think everyone should live kind of poor so no one has to live really poor?

That some people should have to work hard so others can slack?

Spoken like a man who wants to slack and live off others.

"I got my A+ computer tech certification in one year of studying weekends, so I deserve the same money as the guy who spent 10 years of his life getting a PHd in electrical engineering to design the chips! We're all contributing, the PHd guy was just stupid to work so much harder than me for the same money!"

Joint
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#24
As I've stated before, all employers care about is that you can competently perform the duties in your job description. It does not matter how you got the knowledge/qualifications to do so, only that you actually can do so.

After that if you do a fair days work you are entitled to fair compensation for that work, no matter how menial or trivial it may be. You are employed to do it, and if you do it you should be compensated for it.
Adam knew he should have bought a PC but Eve fell for the marketing hype.

Homeopathy is what happened when snake oil salesmen discovered that water is cheaper than snake oil.

The reason they call it the American Dream is because you have to be asleep to believe it. -- George Carlin
Reply
#25
(08-02-2015, 06:39 PM)gstanford Wrote: As I've stated before, all employers care about is that you can competently perform the duties in your job description.  It does not matter how you got the knowledge/qualifications to do so, only that you actually can do so.

After that if you do a fair days work you are entitled to fair compensation for that work, no matter how menial or trivial it may be.   You are employed to do it, and if you do it you should be compensated for it.

If you can't answer the question, you are either admitting I am right, or that the question is above your ability to understand.

It's not a hard question:

Why would people work harder and spend more money on training themselves if they knew the reward for their efforts is the same as the guy who worked less and spent less??

It's not a hard question to understand, it just breaks the ridiculous world view that you have sold yourself, I guess to rationalize not doing the work those guys did and wanting more money for what you do.

To accept that others deserve more for their efforts because they have done more and invested more would be to admit you did not, and got exactly what you deserve.

Therein lies the difference in us: I can accept that others studied longer, learned more difficult work, invested more in the training and therefore deserve more pay. You think you should get the pay without the work and investment, you're a freeloader like Apoppin.

You're not even right about what businesses want.

One of my degrees is a BS-Business and they never once told us "Business exists to provide society with an equal standard of living". No, they told us "businesses exist to provide a profit or service to owners".

Do you HONESTLY think the guy that mops the floors at NVIDIA is as important to the company as the guy who designs the GPUs? That you could in any way sell that laughable insanity?

How about at a law firm? Have a bunch of lawyers that do the highly skilled work and make all the money for the company, and Louie, emptying the trash every night. Yeah, Louie is just as important as the lawyers. Joint
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#26
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_co...per_capita

Communist Comrade GStan, notice how the other big nations that tried communism have a per capita income of $12K/year (Russia) and $7K/year (China)? How the USA is the only big nation in the top ten for per capita income?

You think they are doing something right and we are doing something wrong?

Joint

Of course, even in your teeny tiny country they aren't practicing your "everyone gets paid the same" bullshit:

http://www.astermedical.com.au/outside-o...australia/

Doctor in Australia makes $200K-$300K.

http://www.engineeringjobs.com.au/engine...nformation

Looks like your engineers are earning over $100K on average as well.

http://www.payscale.com/research/AU/Job=...ant/Salary

$54K on average for accountants.

How about Louie, our intrepid janitor?

http://www.indeed.com/salary/q-Janitor-l...g,-MS.html

Yep, looks like Louie is making $20-$30K in Australia too.

Why aren't these people all being paid the same Comrade GStan?

Haven't the people who set salaries in your country heard of your wonderful communist theories for prosperity?!
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#27
You know why you can't answer me GStan?

Because no one in their right mind would actually believe: "It's fair for some people to work much harder and invest much more into their job and get paid the same as guys who do much less and need no training.".

Doesn't have anything to do with the people being "better" it has to do with the expectation that return on investment is proportionate to investment.

Only freeloaders and bums think other people should do the hard work and pay the costs so the freeloaders and bums can collect the benefits.

People doing the work and risking their assets usually want what they have earned for doing so.

If your ideas (really Karl Marx's ideas) are so great, point out some place they have actually worked.
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#28
Quote:If your ideas (really Karl Marx's ideas) are so great, point out some place they have actually worked.
Gravity payments would be a rather obvious example.......
Adam knew he should have bought a PC but Eve fell for the marketing hype.

Homeopathy is what happened when snake oil salesmen discovered that water is cheaper than snake oil.

The reason they call it the American Dream is because you have to be asleep to believe it. -- George Carlin
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#29
(08-02-2015, 08:41 PM)gstanford Wrote:
Quote:If your ideas (really Karl Marx's ideas) are so great, point out some place they have actually worked.
Gravity payments would be a rather obvious example.......

More like "Gravity payments is how I wish everyone did business because it would benefit me" while you ignore the guy's partner disagrees, his senior staff are quitting, and key customers are dumping him because they think he is nuts.

I'll make the question more specific:

Name one country where "everyone makes the same and no one is more valued than anyone else" is the economic system and it has worked well. (won't hold my breath here as we both know it has never happened)
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#30
The reason it has never happened is no-one other than Dan Price has seriously tried it before.

I'm sure if we could go back in time you would rant and rave just as much about automobiles replacing horses and carts.

The fact that you and your conservative cronies rant so much about this and obviously feel threatened by it is simply further proof that it is a brilliant idea. If it truly were a crackpot idea with no hope of success you would totally ignore it.

Just like your XBONE vs PS4 rants, the more you rave the more I know I'm correct!
Adam knew he should have bought a PC but Eve fell for the marketing hype.

Homeopathy is what happened when snake oil salesmen discovered that water is cheaper than snake oil.

The reason they call it the American Dream is because you have to be asleep to believe it. -- George Carlin
Reply
#31
(08-02-2015, 09:29 PM)gstanford Wrote: The reason it has never happened is no-one other than Dan Price has seriously tried it before.

I'm sure if we could go back in time you would rant and rave just as much about automobiles replacing horses and carts.

The fact that you and your conservative cronies rant so much about this and obviously feel threatened by it is simply further proof that it is a brilliant idea.  If it truly were a crackpot idea with no hope of success you would totally ignore it.

Just like your XBONE vs PS4 rants, the more you rave the more I know I'm correct!

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/communism?s=t

No, classless society has been tried in China and Russia, and it failed miserably.

Of course you and the other slackers are the only ones cheering on Dan Price. Have any other companies followed his lead?

Why not, if it is "brilliant"?

Probably because it didn't even work for Gravity, a fact you ignore:

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2015/08/01/sea...ends-meet/
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#32
I don't know what you mean "it didn't even work for Gravity", it is still happening there and he has picked up new customers in the process too.

His brother is forcing him to do it tough at the moment, but he will come through. He certainly hasn't failed yet despite your desperately wanting him too.

This isn't communism, no matter how much you want to paint it that way. At the end of the day there will be people at Gravity earning more than 70K, Dan included. It just makes the basement much more livable.
Adam knew he should have bought a PC but Eve fell for the marketing hype.

Homeopathy is what happened when snake oil salesmen discovered that water is cheaper than snake oil.

The reason they call it the American Dream is because you have to be asleep to believe it. -- George Carlin
Reply
#33
(08-02-2015, 10:30 PM)gstanford Wrote: I don't know what you mean "it didn't even work for Gravity", it is still happening there and he has picked up new customers in the process too.

His brother is forcing him to do it tough at the moment, but he will come through.  He certainly hasn't failed yet despite your desperately wanting him too.

This isn't communism, no matter how much you want to paint it that way.  At the end of the day there will be people at Gravity earning more than 70K, Dan included.  It just makes the basement much more livable.

LOL

Why don't you send yourself an appointment to check in on this in a year?

This is going nowhere, fast.
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#34
You are the one so desperate to discuss it (it is your thread after all)....
Adam knew he should have bought a PC but Eve fell for the marketing hype.

Homeopathy is what happened when snake oil salesmen discovered that water is cheaper than snake oil.

The reason they call it the American Dream is because you have to be asleep to believe it. -- George Carlin
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#35
(08-02-2015, 10:30 PM)gstanford Wrote: I don't know what you mean "it didn't even work for Gravity", it is still happening there and he has picked up new customers in the process too.

His brother is forcing him to do it tough at the moment, but he will come through.  He certainly hasn't failed yet despite your desperately wanting him too.

This isn't communism, no matter how much you want to paint it that way.  At the end of the day there will be people at Gravity earning more than 70K, Dan included.  It just makes the basement much more livable.

it did not work. Not at all. it is nothing like you and rollo think. You guys got this all wrong.

Oh, let me count the ways.

1) Gravity did set the minimum salary to 70K, just not today. Not this year, not even next year.......not even 2 yrs from now.
They plan (hope) to have the the minimum wage up to 70k by 2018 (dec 2017). Their wages will raise over time. 5k a yr.
Employees making less than $70,000 annually will receive a $5,000-per-year raise or be paid a minimum of $50,000, whichever is greater
So, people making under 50k will get a raise to 50k. The average salary there was already 48,000 a year!

2)It is not equal pay for everyone. They still have more valuable people that already make over 70k. One of the people that left was angry because they felt that their percentage on raise was not as good as the lower paid employees. Everyone got raises. The higher paid, higher skilled employees just didnt get double their income and that made a couple upset. See, the newer people got double their income overnight.

3) Also, this company is in Seattle, which you should also be aware, passed a law to raise the city's minimum wage to $15 per hour. So....everyone from McDonalds to walmart door greeters are gonna be paid at least $15 is Seattle, its the law. Companies have to raise the min. hourly pay significantly in Seattle and have 3yrs to implement this. That means in 3 yrs anyone can make 35-45k working anywhere, any bum on the street can walk into any place and will be making such wages. That is the law and companies have 3yrs to comply, they know that is coming and have to deal with it. If you know lowest full time pay in the city will be 32-40k, you have to do something to try to keep the good employees and keep them happy.
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#36
That will change the nature of employment in Seattle, will be interesting to see how many small restaurants and retailers just leave.

http://www.startupnation.com/community/f...rant-owner

Subway Owner Wrote:If you have a store that is merely average you should profit in the ballpark of $80k/yr.

Now lets say you were lucky enough to get a great location and you store does $15k/week (the area I am in has several stores that do this and much more in sales so it is very possible), well you should be making in excess of $150k per year.

So let's say a middle of the road store makes $110K a year, a nice living for the owner.

If he has the equivalent of six full time employees making $10/hour, raising it to $15/hour takes $62,400.00 a year out of that guys pocket.

(40hr X $5. =$200/ea X 6= $1200/week X 52 weeks =$62,400.00)

Now his $110K/year is down to $47,600/year, and it may not be worth his investment risk for that. (also puts the owner very close to the help who will make $30K)
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#37
He's still making substantially more than his employees. That isn't going to change as the wages scale up.
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#38
(08-04-2015, 12:21 AM)SteelCrysis Wrote: He's still making substantially more than his employees.  That isn't going to change as the wages scale up.

Yes, it is.

The owner's profit is what is left after the employees/other expenses are paid. The owner can only make less as the employees make more, unless he raises prices or cuts some other expense.

My example was legit- what owners make from an owner. I've known four sandwich shop owners in my life. These guys aren't getting rich- they're guys working full time plus at the sub shop so they can make a decent living for their families.

Why would anyone pay $100-$250K up front and risk it, work more than full time making subs, managing low end employees, doing the books, etc for $45K a year?

$45K a year is the average wage after taxes in this country. (and those jobs don't have a quarter mil upfront fee)

So while $45K is indeed more than $30K, I doubt anyone is going to invest $150K and slave in a sub shop to get it. They would be better off ivesting the $150K and getting a job. Can just walk away from a job if you don't like it.
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#39
I agree with paying people a decent minimum wage but $70K/year is just absurd. I think $15/hour is a good figure and a fair wage for basic jobs with low requirements. You can at least eek out a basic living in most places on that much. If everyone made $70K it would drive up the price of everything to the point that $70K/year would not be enough to get by on for most people.

Actually what I think would be great is if you made the minimum wage $15/hour plus allow people to earn $20-30K tax free each year.
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#40
(08-04-2015, 06:41 AM)SickBeast Wrote: I agree with paying people a decent minimum wage but $70K/year is just absurd.  I think $15/hour is a good figure and a fair wage for basic jobs with low requirements.  You can at least eek out a basic living in most places on that much.  If everyone made $70K it would drive up the price of everything to the point that $70K/year would not be enough to get by on for most people.

Actually what I think would be great is if you made the minimum wage $15/hour plus allow people to earn $20-30K tax free each year.

No way, you think?!

Of course it would because a. the money has to come from somewhere and higher costs of good would be where b. even vendors paying wages nowhere near the $70K get that there is more money flowing and jack up their prices

The dumbasses who think "The jig is up! Those rich guys have to pay out of their deep pockets and now we will all prosper!" need to Google "cost push" and "demand pull" inflation.

It's also way past crazy thinking that people who have been making $70K to do skilled work won't expect to make a lot more than that if the cafeteria workers start making that to hand out jello.
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