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#1
Why create a new public forum and openly criticize religions, etc. and then treat a light friendly joke like this video below, ALWAYS:



Hardly liking anybody much (maybe just a select few), wanting to be left alone with own public forum (den of dominance).   Claiming to have learned so much from many years of moderating ATF, but yet still always like this???  


[Image: I-dunno-lol11.jpg]
As to me:
[Image: belligerent-quotes-1.jpg]

It was kind of a "meaningful" fight, btw, but why are some people so belligerent when a friend is only joking (making it clear that it was a joke, and even explained that the joke was not an insult at all.  All my other friends would just say "LOL" or something like that.  

[Image: belligerent-710x435.jpg]

[Image: angry1.png]

Tongue
Ok with science that the big bang theory requires that fundamental scientific laws do not exist for the first few minutes, but not ok for the creator to defy these laws...  Rolleyes
#2
(08-11-2015, 11:52 AM)BoFox Wrote: Poppin, come on!  Show us that you have a pair like the rest of us, and I respect your belief that it's a simulation.

Which is true - it's a simulation of the qualities of intelligence to a significant degree just as much as we are apparently physical pawns of circumstance here on Earth, but yet not a mere simulation created by some alien beings like as if aliens were our gods (and yet that we still have the freedom to choose what to believe in).

The simulation theory is VERY strange, don't think I can respect that. (or metaphysics)

"We're all on "The Truman Show" and space people watch us like a tv show!"

Ummmm..yeah.

Prairiedog80
#3
(08-12-2015, 11:18 PM)gstanford Wrote: No, I can see the IP addresses of guests and regulars who are not logged in.

Only one 1 line in my sig is even remotely connected to apoppin and It's staying because I dislike quacks in general and homeopaths are amongst the worst of the bunch.

There is nothing that should offend you in my sig.  If you want to be offended by it I could add a line that goes like this:

Religion is a crutch for the weak & ignorant, and a handy tool for the manipulative. Or, in the words of Roman philosopher Seneca the Younger: "Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by rulers as useful."

Interesting.  When I was a mod, I only saw the IP addresses of logged-in members.  Of course, there are proxies, and things like the awesome PrivateInternetAccess that encrypts everything (offering more and more servers worldwide):
https://www.privateinternetaccess.com/


As to your sig, I won't be offended by it.  There are already billions of atheists who cannot tolerate any religion at all - even if it's just homeopathy.  If it were up to the atheists alone, they would just all burn the religious guys on a stake.  And the 1st Amendment would be erased from the Bill of Rights.
Ok with science that the big bang theory requires that fundamental scientific laws do not exist for the first few minutes, but not ok for the creator to defy these laws...  Rolleyes
#4
(08-12-2015, 11:18 PM)gstanford Wrote: No, I can see the IP addresses of guests and regulars who are not logged in.

Only one 1 line in my sig is even remotely connected to apoppin and It's staying because I dislike quacks in general and homeopaths are amongst the worst of the bunch.

There is nothing that should offend you in my sig.  If you want to be offended by it I could add a line that goes like this:

Religion is a crutch for the weak & ignorant, and a handy tool for the manipulative. Or, in the words of Roman philosopher Seneca the Younger: "Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by rulers as useful."

I'm not religious, but religion fills a lot of needed roles in society:

1. Vehicle for charity
2. Vehicle for community
3. Gives the downtrodden a sense of hope, reason to go on.
4. Gives a 90% good moral compass, and the rules were written 2000 years ago when we weren't nearly as smart.
5. Gives comfort to the grieving
6. Provides a sense of order to the world. Even if it turns out not to be a "true" sense of order, we're better off thinking things are the way the Bible say they are than, "Holy crap. What if we're a farmyard and aliens planted us here? When we reach a certain population and average weight they're coming back to harvest us for lunch and slave labor.".
#5
Quote:1. Vehicle for charity
2. Vehicle for community
3. Gives the downtrodden a sense of hope, reason to go on.
4. Gives a 90% good moral compass.
5. Gives comfort to the grieving
6. Provides a sense of order to the world.

You can have all of the above without needing religion.

Some people just need a crutch to lean on (usually people who can't be bothered thinking for themselves and want others to think for them) and manipulative types are only too happy to provide the crutch (for a price).
Adam knew he should have bought a PC but Eve fell for the marketing hype.

Homeopathy is what happened when snake oil salesmen discovered that water is cheaper than snake oil.

The reason they call it the American Dream is because you have to be asleep to believe it. -- George Carlin
#6
(08-14-2015, 12:32 PM)gstanford Wrote:
Quote:1. Vehicle for charity
2. Vehicle for community
3. Gives the downtrodden a sense of hope, reason to go on.
4. Gives a 90% good moral compass.
5. Gives comfort to the grieving
6. Provides a sense of order to the world.

You can have all of the above without needing religion.

Some people just need a crutch to lean on (usually people who can't be bothered thinking for themselves and want others to think for them) and manipulative types are only too happy to provide the crutch (for a price).

There's far more good than bad in what I listed, and that makes religion a positive aspect of the world.

The "primordial soup" random combination of chemicals is no more far fetched, and does not address where the chemicals came from.

I'm smart enough to realize I'm far too dumb to understand creation and the origins of the universe, and understand that what we know about the universe is almost nothing.

What is in the Bible is one of the possible answers, I certainly can't disprove it. Even some of my problems with it (God having human flaws like jealousy, wrath) might just be there because the information had to be dumbed down to our level or no one would have understood or believed.

If what they believe leads to good outcomes for them and society, why give it a negative label like a "crutch"?

In my life, I strive to smooth the road wherever I can, whether it's drawing on past speeches to prepare one, buying a tool that makes a job easier, buying the hobby equipment that improves the experience, consulting people with different areas of expertise to do my job, hiring people to do jobs I don't want to learn or would not do as well.

Are all of these "crutches" smoothing out my existence? Sure. I call it "living and working smart" and making my time on the planet as good as possible. Why disparage what works for them?
#7
The chemicals came from the stars. Stellar evolution provides the fundamental elements of life and planets like earth in the "goldilocks zone" of their star provide the perfect conditions for chemical reactions and chemical evolution that leads to life.

https://vid.me/2TZM

The two scientists in the clip above are Brad Smith (University of Arizona) and Rich Tyrell (CalTech JPL labs), responsible for "little things" like the voyager missions among others. The video the clip originates from aired back in 1991, part of a series titled "The Astronomers". Still just as accurate and factual as when first filmed.
Adam knew he should have bought a PC but Eve fell for the marketing hype.

Homeopathy is what happened when snake oil salesmen discovered that water is cheaper than snake oil.

The reason they call it the American Dream is because you have to be asleep to believe it. -- George Carlin
#8
What created the universe then, gstanford? That is the fundamental problem with the atheist's logic. It just doesn't work. We had to be created by something or someone.
#9
It doesn't work any better for the religious nut jobs.

Who created god? Who created the thing that created god? etc, etc.

Where are these gods if they aren't in the universe?

god can't just pop into being anymore than the universe can.
Adam knew he should have bought a PC but Eve fell for the marketing hype.

Homeopathy is what happened when snake oil salesmen discovered that water is cheaper than snake oil.

The reason they call it the American Dream is because you have to be asleep to believe it. -- George Carlin
#10
Perhaps God can and he did. God being able to create himself and the universe makes a lot more sense than a pile of goo magically appearing after a big bang that no one made and then everything just magically evolving into humans. If we evolved from apes then where is the missing link? We are distinctly different from all the animals on earth. Our intelligence is vastly superior, it's not even close. That is because God made us this way (IMO).
#11
Well, religious types thought that the sun orbited the earth and that the earth was flat, so why not worship a self creating god too?! It makes SO much sense don't you know?!

[Image: joint.gif]
Adam knew he should have bought a PC but Eve fell for the marketing hype.

Homeopathy is what happened when snake oil salesmen discovered that water is cheaper than snake oil.

The reason they call it the American Dream is because you have to be asleep to believe it. -- George Carlin
#12
(08-14-2015, 09:47 PM)SickBeast Wrote: What created the universe then, gstanford?  That is the fundamental problem with the atheist's logic.  It just doesn't work.  We had to be created by something or someone.

Well, maybe. Again, that's "one" of the possible answers.

We don't know WAY too much to draw conclusions.

Is our "god" one of many, just the one in our corner of the universe?

Does matter spontaneously create itself?

Are we just so far down the food chain that we see the universe but can't understand what we're seeing? (E.G. An ant could watch me type this post, would have utterly no concept of the nature of what I'm doing. Similarly, we could observe some phenomenon like lightning and be totally incorrect about the nature of it because we have fundamental flaws in our science.)

It's one of my main problems with the Bible- it wraps things up in way too convenient a package, and an illogically anthropomorphic package at that.

God just happens to look like us and be pretty much like us, except he is eternal and can do whatever he wants just by wishing it so. We're his "children" and yay! That makes us pretty special by default!

Sure beats "Well we're the smartest monkeys on this rock" for self esteem.

BUT- I am smart enough to realize that if we were created by a "god" that wanted to give us a set of rules to keep us orderly, the rules and story would have to be dumbed down to our pathetic level.

So, it's one of the possible answers.
#13
(08-14-2015, 09:51 PM)gstanford Wrote: It doesn't work any better for the religious nut jobs.

Who created god?  Who created the thing that created god? etc, etc.

Where are these gods if they aren't in the universe?

god can't just pop into being anymore than the universe can.

You can't call them nut jobs if you don't have facts on your side, and you don't. We're all just speculating.
#14
(08-14-2015, 11:11 PM)gstanford Wrote:
RolloTheGreat Wrote:You can't call them nut jobs if you don't have facts on your side, and you don't. We're all just speculating.

Well, science doesn't have all the facts, but it has more than religion does (fact free zone) and acquiring more all the time.

Certainly, the big bang and cosmic background radiation have been studied and continue to be studied.

Your viewpoint doesn't have to be specific to science or religion. I believe in both personally. If you read Genesis the seven "days" that God used to create heaven and earth actually occur in the same order that the theory of evolution specifies. Not only that but the word for "day" has been translated and it really means "period of time" or "era". Also, how long is a "day" to God? Time is relevant.
#15
(08-14-2015, 11:11 PM)gstanford Wrote:
RolloTheGreat Wrote:You can't call them nut jobs if you don't have facts on your side, and you don't. We're all just speculating.

Well, science doesn't have all the facts, but it has more than religion does (fact free zone) and acquiring more all the time.

Certainly, the big bang and cosmic background radiation have been studied and continue to be studied.

“The big bang made no quantitative prediction that the ‘background’ radiation would have a temperature of 3 degrees Kelvin (in fact its initial prediction [by George Gamow in 1946] was 30 degrees Kelvin); whereas Eddington in 1926 had already calculated that the ‘temperature of space’ produced by the radiation of starlight would be found to be 3 degrees Kelvin.” Tom Van Flandern, “Did the Universe Have a Beginning?” Meta Research Bulletin, Vol. 3, 15 September 1994, p. 33.

“Despite the widespread acceptance of the big bang theory as a working model for interpreting new findings, not a single important prediction of the theory has yet been confirmed, and substantial evidence has accumulated against it.”  Ibid., p. 25.

u “History also shows that some BB [big bang] cosmologists’ ‘predictions’ of MBR [microwave background radiation] temperature have been ‘adjusted’ after-the-fact to agree with observed temperatures.” William C. Mitchell, “Big Bang Theory Under Fire,” Physics Essays, Vol. 10, June 1997, pp. 370–379.

u “What’s more, the big bang theory can boast of no quantitative predictions that have subsequently been validated by observation.” Eric J. Lerner et al., “Bucking the Big Bang,” New Scientist, Vol. 182, 22 May 2004, p. 20. [This blistering article critiquing the big bang theory was originally signed by 33 scientists from 10 countries. Later 374 other scientists, engineers, and researchers endorsed the article. See http://www.cosmologystatement.org.]

These above references are cited for the introduction in this page:
http://www.creationscience.com/onlineboo...ces17.html
(so much more to learn, for all of us amateurs - including the remaining few scientists who really want to think for themselves.)
Ok with science that the big bang theory requires that fundamental scientific laws do not exist for the first few minutes, but not ok for the creator to defy these laws...  Rolleyes
#16
Gstan - it's not that serious! SB was just playing with you - it's probably because we all already saw that video before. I mean, we've already been indoctrinated with millions of those videos while growing up in secular public schools..
Ok with science that the big bang theory requires that fundamental scientific laws do not exist for the first few minutes, but not ok for the creator to defy these laws...  Rolleyes
#17
The problem is that the Big Bang is a creation story.

Science is a modern religion. The Big Bang should have been thrown out when we discovered the universe was expanding faster rather than slowing down, as the Big Bang theory was entirely built on.

Since then, we have scientists make up magic forces that can't be seen and claiming this is what is driving the expansion now.....but the Big Bang was the cause of the expansion before.....you know before we found out it is expanding way faster than a Big Bang could possibly allow after 15billion yrs.

So now we have scientists making up mysterious forces from other realms that can't be seen.......we only see the effects of such "dark" forces.

Gstanford, if you can't see how ridiculously ironic all this is then you really need to take a few steps back.

We have had a mysterious magical force from another realm/dimension, one that can't be seen....only the effects of this force can be seen.

Can you not see the circle?
Look, gstanford, what is this thing we call life? This magical energy that has matter walking, eating, thinking and breeding. There is a force behind it all, that all energy comes from somewhere. That life is an energy, like a fire that tries to expand and evolves to try to keep going....as long as it can.

We do evolve but as straightforward as you think these things are, they are anything but. We have species that come in and out of existence, multiple times disappearing and popping back up. We have species evolving in the perfect direction like clock work. We have ants that blow them self up or bees that sting and die, which completely cannot evolve if we take survival of the fittest as the only answer.

The most successful species, the most abundant life form that exist is the most simplest. The microscopic, simple organisms out number is by trillions of times. The most simplest forms of life, the ones we are supposed to evolve from, they are the most successful. It makes no sense, how do they evolve into fish and mammals yet the single cell organisms completely own our planet. They are the most successful life.

The survival of the fittest is a great theory, and it can make sense. We can even see it at play, it isn't even complex, it is at work and we can see this. But just because you find out that bees make honey, that doesn't mean you actually understand what honey really is. The true chemical make up and how those elements really come together, that is completely a different matter.

I can describe to you in great detail what a star is, a great and long definition. But those words really do little justice. As much as anyone claims they know, they actually know very little.

We make up things, that's what we do. Humans have one great gift that separates us from the animals around us, this gift is often called our brains but I contest. It is our imagination.
We can put cloths over our bodies and call it clothing, without them we are naked. So we imagined.

Everything we invent, it all comes from the imagination. It's a great gift that allows us to build and invent tools. Words and language, those are just tools that we invented long long ago. Words do very little when it comes to the real world, it's just ways to share our version of the world as we imagine it to be.

You think you know what a bug is but the truth is we barely know what a bug does or how it does it. We can't rightly comprehend anything on the tiniest level, the atomic and subatomic. If you think you understand, you are just imagining. Because scientists can't get their story together and none of them agree. What we do know is how bugs act and what they might do, just like Darwin understood how species are acting and observed what they were doing. That is far far away from really understanding life. From one tiny letter, we have written an entire novel. That's what we do, we can't help but imagine.
But all those things in your and my head, they are just that. Imagined. The real world is not.

We know very very little but make claims to know everything
#18
We have certainly come a long way in understanding the world we live in.

The origins of the universe we live in are totally unknown.

GStan's answer: "The chemicals that created life came from the stars" is possibly part of it, but where did the stars come from?

For all we know this guy created the stars before getting shot by McCoy:




#19
(08-16-2015, 08:53 AM)gstanford Wrote: We know where stars came from - from the hydrogen gas that formed after the big bang.

The only two puzzles are why galaxies formed and what causes a gas cloud to collapse down into a star and we are actively working on answers to those questions.  The James Webb space telescope has been specifically designed to help answer these questions.

OK, what caused the big bang? The Mugatu before McCoy shot it? Is the big bang how God sets creation in motion?

You don't know, I don't either.
#20
Better that the Primordial Soup said "let there be light!" when your Dad's billions of jizzed sperm faced the endless abyss of darkness except for one lucky sperm that got to head straight into a massive circularity and thus cause a split in the singularity and yell "Big Bang"!!!
Ok with science that the big bang theory requires that fundamental scientific laws do not exist for the first few minutes, but not ok for the creator to defy these laws...  Rolleyes
#21
(08-16-2015, 09:42 AM)gstanford Wrote: We don't know yet, but with enough observation and research we will probably find out.

Much better than spouting "and god said let there be light!"  where upon he presumably waved his magic wand......

Chimpanzees use tools and have a form of communication. Do you think if they watch us long enough, and improve their tools they will figure out how cell phones work?

The only way it is "better" is science is trying to find the answer. It "could" be that religion already has the answer.

Like I said before, we're idiots in the universe. If there is a "god" that wanted us to know our origins and design, the story given us 2000 years ago would have to be something we could understand.

It is your vanity and desire not to acknowledge we may well not be able to understand the nature of creation that makes you take this position. The only sensible position to take on the subject is an open mind to the discoveries of science, as well as the possibility the Bible is correct.
#22
I'm willing to bet the chimps don't believe in god..........
Adam knew he should have bought a PC but Eve fell for the marketing hype.

Homeopathy is what happened when snake oil salesmen discovered that water is cheaper than snake oil.

The reason they call it the American Dream is because you have to be asleep to believe it. -- George Carlin
#23
(08-16-2015, 04:19 PM)gstanford Wrote: I'm willing to bet the chimps don't believe in god..........

Only a fool closes his mind to the possibilities.

Whether dumbed down "word of god" or brilliant social engineering, religion fills an almost entirely positive role in the world today.
#24
You do realise that just about every war this planet has ever seen has been fuelled by religion?!

Religion isn't a force for good, it is a divider. It divides peoples in to the "us" (those who believe in whatever god/faith) and "them" (those who don't) and sets up conflict between them.
Adam knew he should have bought a PC but Eve fell for the marketing hype.

Homeopathy is what happened when snake oil salesmen discovered that water is cheaper than snake oil.

The reason they call it the American Dream is because you have to be asleep to believe it. -- George Carlin
#25
(08-17-2015, 07:57 AM)gstanford Wrote: You do realise that just about every war this planet has ever seen has been fuelled by religion?!

Religion isn't a force for good, it is a divider.  It divides peoples in to the "us" (those who believe in whatever god/faith) and "them" (those who don't) and sets up conflict between them.

Actually what they say is that just about every war this planet has ever seen has been over resources. All the other "reasons" are nothing but a distraction from the greed.

http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLE...z3j2Rkq5HA
#26
(08-17-2015, 07:57 AM)gstanford Wrote: You do realise that just about every war this planet has ever seen has been fuelled by religion?!

Religion isn't a force for good, it is a divider.  It divides peoples in to the "us" (those who believe in whatever god/faith) and "them" (those who don't) and sets up conflict between them.

Not in the USA, we don't crusade.
#27
(08-17-2015, 07:57 AM)gstanford Wrote: You do realise that just about every war this planet has ever seen has been fuelled by religion?!

Religion isn't a force for good, it is a divider.  It divides peoples in to the "us" (those who believe in whatever god/faith) and "them" (those who don't) and sets up conflict between them.

Face it, Gstan - we're ALL religious, including the atheists.  Whether we believed in Ptolemy's "scientific" explanation of the solar system revolving about upon an increasing number of epicycles, or on Darwin's theory of evolution, etc..  we ALL take whatever we believe rather (and deeply) religiously.  Some atheists take it so far that they are literally the ones to initiate acts of intolerance and verbal assaults upon the believers in some traditional religions.  It's pretty much human nature, after all.  No matter how you try to get us to look away from the eggs that you're hiding in your own nest, we all know that you, just like us, are ALL the same, by human nature (big-bang and evolution theory "religious", at least evidenced by your present dogmatism of your own atheist beliefs).
Ok with science that the big bang theory requires that fundamental scientific laws do not exist for the first few minutes, but not ok for the creator to defy these laws...  Rolleyes
#28
LOL! Just goes to show how little you know me if you think I hold any religious convictions about anything.

It's OK though, I know you are religious and religious types cannot conceive of concepts outside of their religious dogma, so you therefore think that must be true of everybody, which is where you go horribly wrong.
Adam knew he should have bought a PC but Eve fell for the marketing hype.

Homeopathy is what happened when snake oil salesmen discovered that water is cheaper than snake oil.

The reason they call it the American Dream is because you have to be asleep to believe it. -- George Carlin
#29
Quote:
Quote:
"One day, as Newton sat reading in his study with his mechanism on a large table near him, his infidel friend stepped in. Scientist that he was, he recognized at a glance what was before him. Stepping up to it, he slowly turned the crank, and with undisguised admiration watched the heavenly bodies all move in their relative speed in their orbits. Standing off a few feet he exclaimed, 'My! What an exquisite thing this is! Who made it?' Without looking up from his book, Newton answered, 'Nobody!'
"Quickly turning to Newton, the infidel said, 'Evidently you did not understand my question. I asked who made this?' Looking up now, Newton solemnly assured him that nobody made it, but that the aggregation of matter so much admired had just happened to assume the form it was in. But the astonished infidel replied with some heat, 'You must think I am a fool! Of course somebody made it, and he is a genius, and I'd like to know who he is.'
"Laying his book aside, Newton arose and laid a hand on his friend's shoulder. 'This thing is but a puny imitation of a much grander system, whose laws you know,—and here I am not able to convince you that this mere toy before you is without a designer and maker! Yet you profess to believe that the great original from which the design is taken has come into being without either designer or maker! Now tell me by what sort of reasoning do you reach such an incongruous conclusion?"—The Minnesota Technolog, October 1957.
"If the universe is a universe of thought [structured in a planned, thoughtful manner], then its creation must have been an act of thought." — *James H. Jeans, Mysterious Universe (1932), p. 181.
http://evolutionfacts.com/Ev-V1/1evlch03.htm

Hope you get the point.  Gstan's desire to wipe out all "non-atheists" off the face of Earth simply shows that he's tempted to be their "god", either by forcing them to believe his own beliefs, or by terminating those who refuse to agree.  This human form of intelligence, as we're made in the image of God, simply shows that intelligence exists in the universe, and that the universe consists of intelligence, at the very least.
Ok with science that the big bang theory requires that fundamental scientific laws do not exist for the first few minutes, but not ok for the creator to defy these laws...  Rolleyes
#30
BoFox Wrote:Gstan's desire to wipe out all "non-atheists" off the face of Earth simply shows that he's tempted to be their "god", either by forcing them to believe his own beliefs, or by terminating those who refuse to agree.

No, I have never said any such thing! Quote me! (you won't be able to)

On the other hand religious type routinely attempt to oppress and wipe-out non-believers............
Adam knew he should have bought a PC but Eve fell for the marketing hype.

Homeopathy is what happened when snake oil salesmen discovered that water is cheaper than snake oil.

The reason they call it the American Dream is because you have to be asleep to believe it. -- George Carlin
#31
(08-17-2015, 10:59 AM)gstanford Wrote:
BoFox Wrote:Gstan's desire to wipe out all "non-atheists" off the face of Earth simply shows that he's tempted to be their "god", either by forcing them to believe his own beliefs, or by terminating those who refuse to agree.

No, I have never said any such thing!  Quote me! (you won't be able to)

On the other hand religious type routinely attempt to oppress and wipe-out non-believers............

Well according to this only 2 to 8 percent of the people on earth are "non-believers":

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_atheism

I guess 92%+ of the world's population has it wrong. Rolleyes
#32
(08-17-2015, 10:59 AM)gstanford Wrote: On the other hand religious type routinely attempt to oppress and wipe-out non-believers............

Not exactly "routinely".  Some religious extremists, sure, but not all of the religious types..  Many religious types have been so peaceful, actually establishing a system of peace in many towns and communities that would've never existed were it not for such reverence of all human lives (otherwise, civilization would have hardly moved past the survival-of-the-fittest models of the primitive cannibalistic jungle tribes and nomadic tribes that slash other tribes' throats at nights).  

Now, atheists are hard at work using the acts of a few extremists (and the Old Testament) to undermine ALL of traditional religion.  However, the problem for example is that first, abortions are ok by the dogmatic atheists, then it will be ok to kill everybody with an IQ less than 100 when the world becomes overpopulated...  

Atheist:  "Why didn't we just kill all African-Americans after they were no longer slaves, when they were useless uneducated pests of the society, so that the society could move on with just us intelligent citizens furthering scientific process of the human race?"  Moral believer:  "No, give all of those African-American equal rights and treatment no matter how poor or uneducated they are!"
Ok with science that the big bang theory requires that fundamental scientific laws do not exist for the first few minutes, but not ok for the creator to defy these laws...  Rolleyes
#33
(08-17-2015, 11:09 AM)SickBeast Wrote:
(08-17-2015, 10:59 AM)gstanford Wrote:
BoFox Wrote:Gstan's desire to wipe out all "non-atheists" off the face of Earth simply shows that he's tempted to be their "god", either by forcing them to believe his own beliefs, or by terminating those who refuse to agree.

No, I have never said any such thing!  Quote me! (you won't be able to)

On the other hand religious type routinely attempt to oppress and wipe-out non-believers............

Well according to this only 2 to 8 percent of the people on earth are "non-believers":

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_atheism

I guess 92%+ of the world's population has it wrong.  Rolleyes

No they are frightened of being oppressed and discriminated against. It's easier for them to pretend to believe even if they don't.
Adam knew he should have bought a PC but Eve fell for the marketing hype.

Homeopathy is what happened when snake oil salesmen discovered that water is cheaper than snake oil.

The reason they call it the American Dream is because you have to be asleep to believe it. -- George Carlin
#34
The irony is that all of the atheists worship Einstein who yet said, "God does not play dice with the universe."

Of course, the atheists have a divine right to believe or not. If they didn't the freedom or the right, it wouldn't really be from unconditional love that has to prove itself by letting go.

Just like a man letting go of all of his own "children" from the nutsack, with only one being the ultimate "chosen one" upon the fertile mother earth. Haha, just kidding.
Ok with science that the big bang theory requires that fundamental scientific laws do not exist for the first few minutes, but not ok for the creator to defy these laws...  Rolleyes
#35
(08-17-2015, 11:25 AM)BoFox Wrote: The irony is that all of the atheists worship Einstein who yet said, "God does not play dice with the universe."

LOL! Show your proof! (you have none)
Adam knew he should have bought a PC but Eve fell for the marketing hype.

Homeopathy is what happened when snake oil salesmen discovered that water is cheaper than snake oil.

The reason they call it the American Dream is because you have to be asleep to believe it. -- George Carlin
#36
(08-17-2015, 11:23 AM)gstanford Wrote:
(08-17-2015, 11:09 AM)SickBeast Wrote:
(08-17-2015, 10:59 AM)gstanford Wrote:
BoFox Wrote:Gstan's desire to wipe out all "non-atheists" off the face of Earth simply shows that he's tempted to be their "god", either by forcing them to believe his own beliefs, or by terminating those who refuse to agree.

No, I have never said any such thing!  Quote me! (you won't be able to)

On the other hand religious type routinely attempt to oppress and wipe-out non-believers............

Well according to this only 2 to 8 percent of the people on earth are "non-believers":

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_atheism

I guess 92%+ of the world's population has it wrong.  Rolleyes

No they are frightened of being oppressed and discriminated against.  It's easier for them to pretend to believe even if they don't.

Look, you need to look at this objectively. You could be right, there may indeed be no "God", at least perhaps not in the form that any of the religions on earth believe. However, there is also the chance that one of the world's religions is "right". From my own perspective and knowledge, Christianity is the religion with the best chance of being "right". I'm not going to pretend that my beliefs are better than yours, all I'm saying is that either one of us could be right. You can't just blindly believe that your belief system is the be all and end all and all the other religions are bunk.

I was an atheist when I was much younger. I am much more comfortable and happy being a Christian. Christianity is a very comforting religion when you have to confront difficult things in life like the death of someone you care about. It feels so empty when you don't believe in God or any type of afterlife.
#37
Sickbeast says it nicely, not trying to convert you - just explaining his own belief in a God - something that we're all entitled to believe or not. I added to my post above, about the "children", haha.

Well, I just feel like it's a bit lonely for the atheist to reject all personal hope, and to believe that there is nothing in the universe except for one's own limited intelligence. If one's own intelligent thoughts and beliefs matter quite a bit to one's own ego (with such a significant degree of meaning to one's own convictions), wouldn't it be contradictory to treat the universe as devoid of at least this kind of intelligence (when the universe is actually consisting of it, as evidenced by the living intelligence of the individual)?

One really is not alone, and there will be a time. It's this "what-is-this-thing-right-now" that is already flabbergastingly utter.
Ok with science that the big bang theory requires that fundamental scientific laws do not exist for the first few minutes, but not ok for the creator to defy these laws...  Rolleyes
#38
If I had mod powers I could convert gstanford. Angel
#39
(08-17-2015, 11:30 AM)SickBeast Wrote:
(08-17-2015, 11:23 AM)gstanford Wrote:
(08-17-2015, 11:09 AM)SickBeast Wrote:
(08-17-2015, 10:59 AM)gstanford Wrote:
BoFox Wrote:Gstan's desire to wipe out all "non-atheists" off the face of Earth simply shows that he's tempted to be their "god", either by forcing them to believe his own beliefs, or by terminating those who refuse to agree.

No, I have never said any such thing!  Quote me! (you won't be able to)

On the other hand religious type routinely attempt to oppress and wipe-out non-believers............

Well according to this only 2 to 8 percent of the people on earth are "non-believers":

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_atheism

I guess 92%+ of the world's population has it wrong.  Rolleyes

No they are frightened of being oppressed and discriminated against.  It's easier for them to pretend to believe even if they don't.

Look, you need to look at this objectively.  You could be right, there may indeed be no "God", at least perhaps not in the form that any of the religions on earth believe.  However, there is also the chance that one of the world's religions is "right".  From my own perspective and knowledge, Christianity is the religion with the best chance of being "right".  I'm not going to pretend that my beliefs are better than yours, all I'm saying is that either one of us could be right.  You can't just blindly believe that your belief system is the be all and end all and all the other religions are bunk.

I was an atheist when I was much younger.  I am much more comfortable and happy being a Christian.  Christianity is a very comforting religion when you have to confront difficult things in life like the death of someone you care about.  It feels so empty when you don't believe in God or any type of afterlife.

I've lost plenty of people in my lifetime, my great parents and grandparents on both sides, friends. I never needed comfort from religion to get me through (or to confront the deaths).

As for looking at things objectively, I do. Science can backup what it says, religion can't. Why doesn't your god show his face, prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that he actually exists? The reason why is because he is nothing more than a figment of your fevered imagination!
Adam knew he should have bought a PC but Eve fell for the marketing hype.

Homeopathy is what happened when snake oil salesmen discovered that water is cheaper than snake oil.

The reason they call it the American Dream is because you have to be asleep to believe it. -- George Carlin
#40
(08-17-2015, 11:51 AM)gstanford Wrote: I've lost plenty of people in my lifetime, my great parents and grandparents on both sides, friends.  I never needed comfort from religion to get me through (or to confront the deaths).

As for looking at things objectively, I do.  Science can backup what it says, religion can't.  Why doesn't your god show his face, prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that he actually exists?  The reason why is because he is nothing more than a figment of your fevered imagination!

See, your heated thought matters quite a bit to you, in this "meaningless" universe that holds no personal hope for you in your current incarnation.  (BTW, there are just too many things that science cannot logically back up without running into illogical inconsistencies.)  Perhaps you think that you should be handed all of the answers on a platter right away, according to your own judgments.  It's like a racist war lieutenant questioning the general's orders, because the general did not explain his own decisions as thoroughly as the racist lieutenant would have liked, as to why he shouldn't just kill every baby, child, and woman of the opposing nation. 

Anyway, what I could understand is that faith means a lot to God.  It's been heavily stressed, so perhaps that's why we're presented with the challenge of faith, so that we can actually show faith (otherwise, if we all saw God's face, and had God do everything for us by making us all rich, and we acted upon what we saw, or we still went on to rape all the women in the world - either way, faith would be completely irrelevant). 

I'm not trying to be arrogantly superior by claiming to see things that you don't, but I see that the world does work upon faith "under the skin of science" in so many ways, even during ordinary everyday living.  It's hard to see, but I've seen too much of it, sometimes on a consistent daily basis, to know that faith is a strange, mysterious thing that most atheists are just purely blind to.  Perhaps that is only a tiny microscopic speck upon the surface of the face of God that we can even hope to see in our present form and dimension?  There are bigger and higher ways, and our lives are so short anyway.
Ok with science that the big bang theory requires that fundamental scientific laws do not exist for the first few minutes, but not ok for the creator to defy these laws...  Rolleyes


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