U.S. Middle Class nearly gone

[BenSkywalker]

I realize that our corporate tax rate is lower however I was under the impression that the lower rate makes Canada more attractive to corporations which is good for jobs.

It absolutely does work like that. Hmmm, take a side bar with me real quick

You are working with a normal family making ~$70K a year and doing OK. You save what you can when you are younger, and increase that amount when the kids are grown. Over the years you have invested a sizable portion of your retirement savings into Ford motor company because they are a sturdy stock and you want long term stability with growth over time. It's closing in on your retirement age, you have about $400K in total valuation with your Ford holdings, not a huge amount but over the course of four decades of saving you did pretty well with it. It slightly edges out the $350K your broader holdings have amounted to.

Now Ford goes and hires a new hotshot CEO, some young wunderkind that proposes a new corporate restructure that if passed will trigger a massive increase in your holdings, the analysts are projecting your $400K will be worth $1.6Million putting your retirement savings up to almost $2Million. What's more, part of the restructuring will be moving their headquarters from just outside of Detroit to just outside of Toronto(a fucking *HUGE* upgrade) meaning that your government will now be gaining additional *billions* in tax revenue every year along with a *lot* of high paying jobs due to the new influx of high ranking executives.

You feeling good about? All on board?

See the new CEO's restructuring plan is to shut down every single manufacturing plant in North America and move all the jobs to China saving a metric ton on labor costs plus removing some of the more obtuse regulations they have to deal with on a regular basis. They are closing up shop in Detroit and moving to Toronto as they realized the obvious benefits of a significantly lower tax rate that would allow them to pay out far greater returns to their share holders.

So you end up in what most people consider 'rich' territory along with a lot of other people, your government picks up a shit ton of cash and your nation gains a reasonable chunk of high paying employees.

Yeah, over a quarter of a million jobs(Fords suppliers all went under of course)- all of them at least reasonable paying middle class jobs, left for cheaper continents- but who can you blame?

Now in that scenario the CEO did his job to the letter. He took care of his share holders- you have the money to buy that dream house you and your wife have been longing for since you first got together. Your grandson who is looking to go to MIT and has the brains and grades to make it happen will now be able to afford it. You have your health, your family, and now you have the funds to do the things you always wanted to.

I have a few different points with this side story- one is that oft times what can come across as utterly cruel actions by a corporation are the ones that they are supposed to do based on their duty to shareholders. That frequently leaves us with a bitter taste in our mouths, but what if *only* the poor owned stock in that company, would it be OK then?

Second point would be to ask you exactly how you felt about the situation? Now my example is extreme, but in reality that's only because I hit pause on current realities and then jumped ahead 40 years to the point we are heading to. Clearly this wouldn't happen all at once, but we *never* hear about jobs coming *back* from second or third world countries. You yourself make out in this example, and make out quite well, you are able to benefit your family considerably while you yourself have done nothing to harm anyone.

This brings me to my third point. We are in a globalized economy and an information age- why the fuck are we still using the same sort of tax constructs that were brought into popularity before the telephone had been invented? This to me is utterly idiotic. I slammed your side of the aisle because you guys attacked me from the left, if Rollo had come at me from the right I would have done the same to the US Republican platform. The biggest difference to me when dealing with ideologues from either leaning is at least the right doesn't try to act like they are out fighting the good fight for the poor. The left wants to position themselves as both intellectually and morally superior, with nothing to give them a leg to stand on outside of rhetoric.

Not only that, but we pay similar tax compared to the US and we get way more services for our money.

That is another avenue I could get very deep into, the lack of production for the dollars the government is spending. Let's say the US government doing *ANYTHING* with money involves massive costs that simple don't exist in any other part of the real world. To drive home that point-

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Government_spending

You spend 41.9% of your GDP on your budget, we spend 41.6%. You are correct, ours doesn't cover health care for every person(although medicare/medicaid do cover a hell of a lot).

There is no arguing that our personal taxes are more progressive though.

Yeah but no Our top personal tax rate is 39%- 10% raw higher than yours(~30% relative). You guys just have a lot of other taxes that we don't on a national level. Your financial system is promoted as progressive, but it really isn't. In no way am I saying that ours is, but our politicians don't even try to act like it is most of the time.

Ben is acknowledging the problem but pointing the finger at the wrong guilty party.

Who isn't guilty is the real question. I was attacked from the left, I go after that. If Rollo attacked me from the right I could launch into what they have done to help get us to where we are- for the record Rollo- I'm going to slaughter them on spending habits *HARD* as that is their biggest hypocrisy(much as the lefts ignorant class warfare is their's).

BoFox- yeah, I was figuring for a family of three while you clearly said three kids, I'll post later with that breakdown, honestly I'm just tired as hell right now