11-8-2016 Trump wins Presidency

[RolloTheGreat]

Did Rollo seriously just call someone else insane in the brain?  Isn't Rollo the same guy who said the water crisis in Flint was a "non-partisan" issue and basically gave the Republican turkey a free pass?  And now he is calling gstanford insane in the brain?

I will tell you, Rollo, some people may be insane in the membrane, but you are the one that's insane in the brain.

I can't believe they let a half wit like you teach children. Makes me throw up in my mouth the way you use a tragedy that damaged children to hiss snotty childish comments about Republicans.

You see, that's the thing.  You are not only insane in the membrane, you are also insane in the brain.  I think it's only natural to want to hold someone accountable for such a horrible mistake that had such drastic consequences on so many people.  The guy needs to go to jail IMO.  So please forgive me for condemning someone who's so cheap that they would jeopardize the health and well being of hundreds of thousands of people.  You keep turning a blind eye if you want.  I don't want these idiots in my government and neither should you.  All you seem to care about is keeping some extra cash in some rich guy's pocket.  Oh noes!  If I pay 1% more taxes some of it will go to slackers!  Noooo!  The horror!

Should your family forgive you for being so cheap you bought the HiSense tv and a house in that depressing looking neighborhood in your ice rink picture? Or were you doing the best you could with what you had?

Same deal here dumbass. Their town went BROKE, the state stepped in and tried to run it with NO MONEY.

I don't forgive them or turn a blind eye, I feel sad about the whole situation for all concerned. There will certainly be lawsuits and the plaintiffs will win, but no matter what happens the people still drank chemicals basically because they had the misfortune to live in a dirt poor town because they're dirt poor.

[SickBeast]

Did Rollo seriously just call someone else insane in the brain?  Isn't Rollo the same guy who said the water crisis in Flint was a "non-partisan" issue and basically gave the Republican turkey a free pass?  And now he is calling gstanford insane in the brain?

I will tell you, Rollo, some people may be insane in the membrane, but you are the one that's insane in the brain.

I can't believe they let a half wit like you teach children. Makes me throw up in my mouth the way you use a tragedy that damaged children to hiss snotty childish comments about Republicans.

You see, that's the thing.  You are not only insane in the membrane, you are also insane in the brain.  I think it's only natural to want to hold someone accountable for such a horrible mistake that had such drastic consequences on so many people.  The guy needs to go to jail IMO.  So please forgive me for condemning someone who's so cheap that they would jeopardize the health and well being of hundreds of thousands of people.  You keep turning a blind eye if you want.  I don't want these idiots in my government and neither should you.  All you seem to care about is keeping some extra cash in some rich guy's pocket.  Oh noes!  If I pay 1% more taxes some of it will go to slackers!  Noooo!  The horror!

Should your family forgive you for being so cheap you bought the HiSense tv and a house in that depressing looking neighborhood in your ice rink picture? Or were you doing the best you could with what you had?

Same deal here dumbass. Their town went BROKE, the state stepped in and tried to run it with NO MONEY.

I don't forgive them or turn a blind eye, I feel sad about the whole situation for all concerned. There will certainly be lawsuits and the plaintiffs will win, but no matter what happens the people still drank chemicals basically because they had the misfortune to live in a dirt poor town because they're dirt poor.

So you don't think the state should have stepped in with some kind of funding? I mean, the issue with what happened is that I'm sure there are rules and regulations surrounding water quality. The simple fact that they hooked up the feed to a polluted river is just mind boggling to me. So you think all those people should have been expected to just move away? It's not the state's fault because the local government was broke?

I don't know. You do have a bit of a point however the fact that a decision like this was actually made by the government is the problem. What would have been cheaper, have the state fix the water supply, or get sued by thousands of people now?

[BoFox]

Flint and Detroit are full of laid-off ex-workers.  Having no mercy on them is like living in a walled community in South Africa, with cops keeping the blacks out - those rich white people wouldn't dare make friends, hand a dollar, or even talk to black people in fear that they're carrying a disease of some kind.  Is South Africa really a great place for those greedy racist white people?  Want to take a walk in any one of the parks outside of your own private neighborhood without getting raped, or without insurmountable fear of getting raped? 

Everything comes at a price....    is America really improving?  Or not??  Fast forward to year 2030:  US Gov't declares bankruptcy and shuts down over 50% of all gov't services.  CHAOS.  Even the Mexican immigrants are running back to Mexico to find a job!

[RolloTheGreat]

Did Rollo seriously just call someone else insane in the brain?  Isn't Rollo the same guy who said the water crisis in Flint was a "non-partisan" issue and basically gave the Republican turkey a free pass?  And now he is calling gstanford insane in the brain?

I will tell you, Rollo, some people may be insane in the membrane, but you are the one that's insane in the brain.

I can't believe they let a half wit like you teach children. Makes me throw up in my mouth the way you use a tragedy that damaged children to hiss snotty childish comments about Republicans.

You see, that's the thing.  You are not only insane in the membrane, you are also insane in the brain.  I think it's only natural to want to hold someone accountable for such a horrible mistake that had such drastic consequences on so many people.  The guy needs to go to jail IMO.  So please forgive me for condemning someone who's so cheap that they would jeopardize the health and well being of hundreds of thousands of people.  You keep turning a blind eye if you want.  I don't want these idiots in my government and neither should you.  All you seem to care about is keeping some extra cash in some rich guy's pocket.  Oh noes!  If I pay 1% more taxes some of it will go to slackers!  Noooo!  The horror!

Should your family forgive you for being so cheap you bought the HiSense tv and a house in that depressing looking neighborhood in your ice rink picture? Or were you doing the best you could with what you had?

Same deal here dumbass. Their town went BROKE, the state stepped in and tried to run it with NO MONEY.

I don't forgive them or turn a blind eye, I feel sad about the whole situation for all concerned. There will certainly be lawsuits and the plaintiffs will win, but no matter what happens the people still drank chemicals basically because they had the misfortune to live in a dirt poor town because they're dirt poor.

So you don't think the state should have stepped in with some kind of funding?  I mean, the issue with what happened is that I'm sure there are rules and regulations surrounding water quality.  The simple fact that they hooked up the feed to a polluted river is just mind boggling to me.  So you think all those people should have been expected to just move away?  It's not the state's fault because the local government was broke?

I don't know.  You do have a bit of a point however the fact that a decision like this was actually made by the government is the problem.  What would have been cheaper, have the state fix the water supply, or get sued by thousands of people now?

I think it's a difficult problem and people removed from it don't understand there isn't some magic pool of money.

I work in the Detroit area at times and they tell me of things like the state itself not having enough money and the schools having to layoff off teachers, or close, not having money for current text books, no funding for kids sports and the like.

I've talked to people who have told me of the state not paying their bills.

In hindsight it's really easy to say, "Why the state should have stepped in with the money they don't have, and put in a great water system staffed by top notch people they can't pay.".

First, I want to apologize for saying you yard was depressing. I was very angry because these people are my neighbors (loosely) and the Midwest has suffered from the loss of manufacturing and the union wage scale more than a lot of the country.

The people dealing with the aftermath are not "stupid", they're not "racist", they're not uncaring. They're people trying salvage their hometowns and state in a cash poor economic climate they're not entirely responsible for.

Those "Republican idiots" you revile are just people trying to keep the water running and lights on for people who can't pay for the water and lights.

Should the people in more prosperous states be taxed to pay for Michigan?

I don't know. Should the people in more prosperous cities in Michigan be made to pay for the economic wreckage of Detroit? I don't know.

What I do know is while this may seem like stupidity on the highest order, I can pretty much guarantee there was no malice toward the poor involved.

I recently gave my son a car worth $23,000 to drive to school. If Mrs. Rollo said "F you Rollo, your rippling muscles and flat stomach are gone, and left me with just my income and half the bills, and I had to give Rollo Jr a car worth $2300 that had no airbags, would you be hissing "Stupid Republican! You should have known Rollo Jr would be hurt by that death trap!".?

[RolloTheGreat]

Water and sewage are essential services.  You ensure they are paid for before anything else, towns and cities can't function if they don't.

That is why in most parts of the world they are a public utility, not farmed out to private enterprise and they cost what they cost to run, budgets mean little for them.

I think here they're basically city run businesses, paid for by the bills for service. (and that's why stuff like this can happen on a city by city basis)

[BoFox]

This article (18 CEOs Called Out By Bernie Sanders For Taking Trillions In Bailouts, Evading Taxes, and Outsourcing Jobs) is free and open source.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

1) Bank of America CEO Brian Moynihan
Amount of federal income taxes paid in 2010? Zero. $1.9 billion tax refund.
Taxpayer Bailout from the Federal Reserve and the Treasury Department? Over $1.3 trillion.
Amount of federal income taxes Bank of America would have owed if offshore tax havens were eliminated? $2.6 billion.

2) Goldman Sachs CEO Lloyd Blankfein
Amount of federal income taxes paid in 2008? Zero. $278 million tax refund.
Taxpayer Bailout from the Federal Reserve and the Treasury Department? $824 billion.
Amount of federal income taxes Goldman Sachs would have owed if offshore tax havens were eliminated? $2.7 billion

3) JP Morgan Chase CEO James Dimon
Taxpayer Bailout from the Federal Reserve and the Treasury Department? $416 billion.
Amount of federal income taxes JP Morgan Chase would have owed if offshore tax havens were eliminated? $4.9 billion.

4) General Electric CEO Jeffrey Immelt
Amount of federal income taxes paid in 2010? Zero. $3.3 billion tax refund.
Taxpayer Bailout from the Federal Reserve? $16 billion.
Jobs Shipped Overseas? At least 25,000 since 2001.

5) Verizon CEO Lowell McAdam
Amount of federal income taxes paid in 2010? Zero. $705 million tax refund.
American Jobs Cut in 2010? In 2010, Verizon announced 13,000 job cuts, the third highest corporate layoff total that year.

6) Boeing CEO James McNerney, Jr.
Amount of federal income taxes paid in 2010? None. $124 million tax refund.
American Jobs Shipped overseas? Over 57,000.
Amount of Corporate Welfare? At least $58 billion.

7) Microsoft CEO Steve Ballmer
Amount of federal income taxes Microsoft would have owed if offshore tax havens were eliminated? $19.4 billion.
8) Honeywell International CEO David Cote
Amount of federal income taxes paid from 2008-2010? Zero. $34 million tax refund.

9) Corning CEO Wendell Weeks
Amount of federal income taxes paid from 2008-2010? Zero. $4 million tax refund.

10) Time Warner CEO Glenn Britt
Amount of federal income taxes paid in 2008? Zero. $74 million tax refund.

11). Merck CEO Kenneth Frazier
Amount of federal income taxes paid in 2009? Zero. $55 million tax refund.

12) Deere & Company CEO Samuel Allen
Amount of federal income taxes paid in 2009? Zero. $1 million tax refund.

13) Marsh & McLennan Companies CEO Brian Duperreault
Amount of federal income taxes paid in 2010? Zero. $90 million refund.

14) Qualcomm CEO Paul Jacobs
Amount of federal income taxes Qualcomm would have owed if offshore tax havens were eliminated? $4.7 billion.

15) Tenneco CEO Gregg Sherill
Amount of federal income taxes Tenneco would have owed if offshore tax havens were eliminated? $269 million.

16) Express Scripts CEO George Paz
Amount of federal income taxes Express Scripts would have owed if offshore tax havens were eliminated? $20 million.

17) Caesars Entertainment CEO Gary Loveman
Amount of federal income taxes Caesars Entertainment would have owed if offshore tax havens were eliminated? $9 million.

18). R.R. Donnelly & Sons CEO Thomas Quinlan III
Amount of federal income taxes paid in 2008? Zero. $49 million tax refund.

[BoFox]

From this site:  http://www.equality-of-opportunity.org/

(Regarding upwards mobility for children when moving to better, more affluent parts of the country)

This figure plots the percentage gain from moving to a better area by the age at which the child moves. For example, children who move at age 9 have outcomes that are about 50% between the outcomes of children who grow up permanently in the origin and destination areas.

PITTSBURGH?!????   Pittsburgh is used as a "better" city???  Is that what America really is coming to?!?  


The Causal Effects of Growing up in Different Counties on Earnings in Adulthood

Percentage Gains/Losses Relative to National Average

[SickBeast]

I can't believe they let a half wit like you teach children. Makes me throw up in my mouth the way you use a tragedy that damaged children to hiss snotty childish comments about Republicans.

You see, that's the thing.  You are not only insane in the membrane, you are also insane in the brain.  I think it's only natural to want to hold someone accountable for such a horrible mistake that had such drastic consequences on so many people.  The guy needs to go to jail IMO.  So please forgive me for condemning someone who's so cheap that they would jeopardize the health and well being of hundreds of thousands of people.  You keep turning a blind eye if you want.  I don't want these idiots in my government and neither should you.  All you seem to care about is keeping some extra cash in some rich guy's pocket.  Oh noes!  If I pay 1% more taxes some of it will go to slackers!  Noooo!  The horror!

Should your family forgive you for being so cheap you bought the HiSense tv and a house in that depressing looking neighborhood in your ice rink picture? Or were you doing the best you could with what you had?

Same deal here dumbass. Their town went BROKE, the state stepped in and tried to run it with NO MONEY.

I don't forgive them or turn a blind eye, I feel sad about the whole situation for all concerned. There will certainly be lawsuits and the plaintiffs will win, but no matter what happens the people still drank chemicals basically because they had the misfortune to live in a dirt poor town because they're dirt poor.

So you don't think the state should have stepped in with some kind of funding?  I mean, the issue with what happened is that I'm sure there are rules and regulations surrounding water quality.  The simple fact that they hooked up the feed to a polluted river is just mind boggling to me.  So you think all those people should have been expected to just move away?  It's not the state's fault because the local government was broke?

I don't know.  You do have a bit of a point however the fact that a decision like this was actually made by the government is the problem.  What would have been cheaper, have the state fix the water supply, or get sued by thousands of people now?

I think it's a difficult problem and people removed from it don't understand there isn't some magic pool of money.

I work in the Detroit area at times and they tell me of things like the state itself not having enough money and the schools having to layoff off teachers, or close, not having money for current text books, no funding for kids sports and the like.

I've talked to people who have told me of the state not paying their bills.

In hindsight it's really easy to say, "Why the state should have stepped in with the money they don't have, and put in a great water system staffed by top notch people they can't pay.".

First, I want to apologize for saying you yard was depressing. I was very angry because these people are my neighbors (loosely) and the Midwest has suffered from the loss of manufacturing and the union wage scale more than a lot of the country.

The people dealing with the aftermath are not "stupid", they're not "racist", they're not uncaring. They're people trying salvage their hometowns and state in a cash poor economic climate they're not entirely responsible for.

Those "Republican idiots" you revile are just people trying to keep the water running and lights on for people who can't pay for the water and lights.

Should the people in more prosperous states be taxed to pay for Michigan?

I don't know. Should the people in more prosperous cities in Michigan be made to pay for the economic wreckage of Detroit? I don't know.

What I do know is while this may seem like stupidity on the highest order, I can pretty much guarantee there was no malice toward the poor involved.

I recently gave my son a car worth $23,000 to drive to school. If Mrs. Rollo said "F you Rollo, your rippling muscles and flat stomach are gone, and left me with just my income and half the bills, and I had to give Rollo Jr a car worth $2300 that had no airbags, would you be hissing "Stupid Republican! You should have known Rollo Jr would be hurt by that death trap!".?

I appreciate the apology.  Just for the record I would appreciate it if you would drop the name calling along with your nonsense comments about my abilities as a professional.  To be frank with you, you don't even know me.  I don't care how much we disagree on an issue, that's just not cool with me.  I was completely kidding with you with my "insane in the brain" comments and that was inspired by the video that you posted to begin with.  I'm all for some banter back and forth, I just draw the line when things get personal.  I realize that you were having a bad night or something.  Again, I appreciate the apology.

As for the debate, yes, you make some valid points.  I don't see much point in reiterating my own viewpoint at this point.  I will say, however, that I read your comments about the Detroit area and I find it heartbreaking.  I'm not saying that bigger government is the answer.  I will just say that there has to be a better way for you guys to do something.  I do know that even in our poorest communities here in Canada, our education system is top notch.  Same with our utilities (in most cases).  We did have a tainted water scandal at one point but IIRC it was due to negligence and human error.  It was not because they hooked up the main feed to a polluted source like what they did in Flint.

I see your point and yes, I will admit that as a taxpayer where I live I would be annoyed if my taxes had to go to bail out a city like Flint because they mismanaged their money or whatever.  But I will say that I would feel good at the end of the day if $10 or even $100 had to come out of my own pocket so that an entire city could have clean water.  Something could have been arranged.  A loan.  A bailout.  Something.  If the government can bail out huge banks for trillions of dollars, why can't they bail out a city when they are having a crisis like this?  Why did it have to come to this?  I would get it if they made an honest mistake but by all accounts everyone knew that the river was polluted to begin with.  The water was coming out of the taps brown and they said to keep drinking it.  The entire situation does not sit right with me.

This is the problem with Republicans and a lot of people in government in general.  They value businesses and money more than they value people.  Yes, we need businesses to drive our economy and give us all food to eat.  But at the end of the day it's our people that run our entire countries.  You have to take care of both to be successful.

At the end of the day, money is just one of the things we have. You can't take it with you when you die. IMO it's going to do a lot more good helping out the poor and the people in need in this world than it is going to do in some rich guy's bank account. Heck, the rich don't even pay taxes, they keep all their money off shore. And yet you want to tax them less? It just doesn't make sense.

[BoFox]

Trumps pulls out of GOP debate because of Fox Moderator Megyn Kelly

And then loses out at the Iowa caucus because of this?  Trump was just entertainment like the Clintons said...


But Clillary winning over Bernie Sanders by less than 1%?  What disgrace!  This will haunt America for a long time....

[RolloTheGreat]

I appreciate the apology.  Just for the record I would appreciate it if you would drop the name calling along with your nonsense comments about my abilities as a professional.  To be frank with you, you don't even know me.  I don't care how much we disagree on an issue, that's just not cool with me.  I was completely kidding with you with my "insane in the brain" comments and that was inspired by the video that you posted to begin with.  I'm all for some banter back and forth, I just draw the line when things get personal.  I realize that you were having a bad night or something.  Again, I appreciate the apology.

As for the debate, yes, you make some valid points.  I don't see much point in reiterating my own viewpoint at this point.  I will say, however, that I read your comments about the Detroit area and I find it heartbreaking.  I'm not saying that bigger government is the answer.  I will just say that there has to be a better way for you guys to do something.  I do know that even in our poorest communities here in Canada, our education system is top notch.  Same with our utilities (in most cases).  We did have a tainted water scandal at one point but IIRC it was due to negligence and human error.  It was not because they hooked up the main feed to a polluted source like what they did in Flint.

I see your point and yes, I will admit that as a taxpayer where I live I would be annoyed if my taxes had to go to bail out a city like Flint because they mismanaged their money or whatever.  But I will say that I would feel good at the end of the day if $10 or even $100 had to come out of my own pocket so that an entire city could have clean water.  Something could have been arranged.  A loan.  A bailout.  Something.  If the government can bail out huge banks for trillions of dollars, why can't they bail out a city when they are having a crisis like this?  Why did it have to come to this?  I would get it if they made an honest mistake but by all accounts everyone knew that the river was polluted to begin with.  The water was coming out of the taps brown and they said to keep drinking it.  The entire situation does not sit right with me.

This is the problem with Republicans and a lot of people in government in general.  They value businesses and money more than they value people.  Yes, we need businesses to drive our economy and give us all food to eat.  But at the end of the day it's our people that run our entire countries.  You have to take care of both to be successful.

At the end of the day, money is just one of the things we have.  You can't take it with you when you die.  IMO it's going to do a lot more good helping out the poor and the people in need in this world than it is going to do in some rich guy's bank account.  Heck, the rich don't even pay taxes, they keep all their money off shore.  And yet you want to tax them less?  It just doesn't make sense.

I don't know what info led to the decisions at Flint, but I'd bet money they didn't knowingly say "Lets give them tainted water, maybe no one will notice.

I do know the lead in the water comes from the lead pipe infrastructure and the aging coating of the pipes decaying, not the river water itself.

http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/flint-w...go-n510116

Water pipes around the world are made of lead and in the process of being swapped out due to this issue.

https://www.safeplumbing.org/health-safe...n-plumbing

As far as the brown water goes, I was sitting by the edge of the lake at my cabin a few years back when a neighbor came by in his boat, bass fishing. The water is as brown as coffee with cream, stained by tree roots. That guy told me he had it tested, and that the quality actually was better than you would think to look at it. Said he boils it to kill bacteria, and uses it to make "swampwater" cocktails that he drinks out of a mason jar.

Point being that water being discolored doesn't necessarily mean it's toxic, or untreatable.

This isn't me excusing the MI government, public safety is job one for government.

Yes it is depressing. When you show up in a town where they tell you, "We used to make a part for Ford that we sold them for $150, then they started buying it from China for $30 and we lost our main employer." it breaks your heart hearing about how it rippled through the town economy and left them broke. They didn't mismanage anything- they just live in a place where a living wage is far higher than China and foreign competition forced Ford to cut corners to compete.

That is why I buy a truck built in America every 3 years, and a boat built in America every 5-6. If people like me don't support American labor, who will?

[BoFox]

^^^ They already knew that there was far too much chloride in the river.  As you know, chloride is highly corrosive - it would wreak havoc on the old water pipe infrastructure, costing the city over a billion dollars in a few years down the road when a complete sewer system overhaul is needed.  Hence the lead leaks from the corroded pipes. 

Michigan Congresswoman Candice Miller also introduced a bill asking for $1 billion in federal funding to help replace Flint's underground water line infrastructure.

It's not just the lead but the chlorine treatment (although the water company had to treat the water with as much as 10 times the amount of chlorine which was already very unsafe and exceeding the regulations, in the first place) that all disappears with so much iron oxide rust in the water from the pipes (which remove the chlorine from the water by the time it reaches the household).

Flint was in the process of building its own pipes for direct water supply from Lake Huron, by 2016.  After the 50 year contract with Detroit expired, Flint certainly could have extended it by just 1 year instead of doing a complete switch-over (which was probably just as costly to do so).  Detroit got greedy, then Flint had a knee-jerk reaction to it.  

Instead, Flint decided to use its own river which required unsafe levels of chlorine to begin with.

Just today, FBI is now investigating the case (as to if laws were intentionally broken):
http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/flint-w...is-n509686

We'll see soon, I guess.

A 2011 study found that before water from the Flint River could be considered potable, it would need to be treated with an anti-corrosion agent, a measure that would have cost the state about $100 a day.

Experts say that water treatment would have prevented 90% of the problems with Flint's water.

The Flint River has significant sewage input, and if the treatment plant does not completely remove the bacteria and other dangers posed by the sewage, high coliforms and public health risks can result. The TTHMs are formed when naturally occurring organic compounds (i.e., decaying leaves and grass and plants) present in the water react with the free chlorine, which is added to destroy the fecal bacteria that may be present in the Flint River water (see Dr. Joan B. Rose’s guide to TTHMs in Flint Water). High TTHM levels are a health concern and are suspected to cause a wide array of health problems with long term exposure.

Flint residents complained that the water coming through their taps was brown and emitted a rank odor. In August 2014, officials found E. coli in the water and added extra chlorine to kill the bacteria. But that only made things worse.

The chlorine created a chemical byproduct called trihalomethane, or TTHM, a carcinogen that showed up in water samples throughout 2014. By Jan. 15, the levels were so high that, under federal law, officials had to notify the residents.

[BoFox]

If that were your son, you'd be pissed:

In February, Walters filmed a video of her son, Gavin, to show doctors how his skin was reacting after baths.

“He gets in the tub and there’s a water line across his stomach from the waist down,” she said, describing the video. “He’s breaking out in this nasty, scaly, burning, itchy rash, and if you put lotion on it, it burns him. He would scream ’cause it hurt.”

[BoFox]

During a presidential debate on Jan. 17, Hillary Clinton blamed racism and classism — 40.1 percent of Flint residents live in poverty while 55 percent are black — for the state’s slow response. Her rival for the Democratic nomination, Vermont Sen. Bernie Sanders, called for Snyder’s job.

http://mashable.com/2016/01/24/flint-wat...kkako6mkqa

[RolloTheGreat]

During a presidential debate on Jan. 17, Hillary Clinton blamed racism and classism — 40.1 percent of Flint residents live in poverty while 55 percent are black — for the state’s slow response. Her rival for the Democratic nomination, Vermont Sen. Bernie Sanders, called for Snyder’s job.

http://mashable.com/2016/01/24/flint-wat...kkako6mkqa

Billary is politician angling for votes.

There's no doubt Flint's lack of money has something to do with the water situation, there's no reason to suspect racism has anything to do with it.

Kind of like Gstan and Mrs. Rollo:

http://www.iihs.org/iihs/ratings/vehicle...sedan/2015

http://www.iihs.org/iihs/ratings/vehicle...door-sedan

I spend a few bucks more and Mrs Rollo drives a "top safety pick". GStan spends a few bucks less and gets "acceptable" or "marginal" safety ratings.

Which is not to say the people of Flint deserved poison water, or that they don't deserve what they're going to rightfully get in their class action suit, or that I don't feel very bad for them.

I do, and you're right, blood would be shooting out my ears if it was Rollo Jr..

What I am saying is that where money is non existent, corners get cut, mistakes are more likely. The towns where the rich people live and always pay their bills have top notch staff hanging around trying to make life better for the rich people.

I agree with SB that water supply in America should be uniform, and taxed if that is what needs to happen. We can't turn into some pathetic place where you don't even get to drink clean water if you live in a poor town.

[SickBeast]

If Trump would have kept his fresh mouth shut he would have had a chance. It's not looking good so far. I've thought about it and you don't want someone like that in charge of your country. What if he says something ridiculous to another world leader? How do you think Putin would respond? It's a shame because I think otherwise Trump was a very appealing candidate for a lot of people. He should have stuck to issues like the economy. He went off on all sorts of groups of people to the point that he has no chance now. All he has left are the people he has not offended and that group is growing smaller by the day. It's too bad.

[RolloTheGreat]

If Trump would have kept his fresh mouth shut he would have had a chance.  It's not looking good so far.  I've thought about it and you don't want someone like that in charge of your country.  What if he says something ridiculous to another world leader?  How do you think Putin would respond?  It's a shame because I think otherwise Trump was a very appealing candidate for a lot of people.  He should have stuck to issues like the economy.  He went off on all sorts of groups of people to the point that he has no chance now.  All he has left are the people he has not offended and that group is growing smaller by the day.  It's too bad.

The nice thing about being Trump is president or not, your life is better than 99% of the rest of the planet anyway.

No clue why he even wants to be president, I'd just enjoy life if I were him. No working, period.

[SickBeast]

For some people it's the power. Either that or they genuinely feel that they could make a real difference. I sense a lack of genuineness from Trump. It looks like a lot of Americans are picking up on it as well. I don't know why he feels the need to go off on entire groups of people the way he does. With Trump actually he could just enjoy the attention and the publicity. He probably goes home at the end of the day and reads about himself online.

I agree with you that if I were him I would just relax and enjoy my money.

Rollo actually I thought you would be one person that would relate well to Trump. You both share a similar bombast.

[RolloTheGreat]

For some people it's the power.  Either that or they genuinely feel that they could make a real difference.  I sense a lack of genuineness from Trump.  It looks like a lot of Americans are picking up on it as well.  I don't know why he feels the need to go off on entire groups of people the way he does.  With Trump actually he could just enjoy the attention and the publicity.  He probably goes home at the end of the day and reads about himself online.

I agree with you that if I were him I would just relax and enjoy my money.

Rollo actually I thought you would be one person that would relate well to Trump.  You both share a similar bombast.

I'm impressed by Trump's aptitude for earning money, and his ability to appeal to a sector of voters with his carefully crafted speech.

I'm a lot smarter than the people he's crafting his speech for, and as such, his sophistry does not fly with me.

[SickBeast]

If Trump is not nominated by the Republicans can he still run an an independent?

[RolloTheGreat]

and rollo:

I'm a lot smarter than the people he's crafting his speech for, and as such, his sophistry does not fly with me.

Guess what - I'm a lot smarter than you and therefore your bullshit doesn't fly with me!  

I'll just say, "When people I wouldn't trade places with tell me they are smarter than I am, or have advice for me, I don't pay much attention."

I once had a guy wearing a very old and low quality suit, who drove a very old and dilapidated car, pitch me on handling my investments. Said he had the true path to wealth.

I said to him, "I'm sorry, and I mean no offense, but you don't look very prosperous yourself. Why would I trust you with my money when it doesn't appear you can earn any of your own?". Which pretty much ended the conversation.

You may well have triple my IQ GStan, I don't know. I do know I'm pretty happy with my life as is, and prefer it to yours based on what I know of yours. So I say, "If you truly are smarter than I am, good for you. I hope it serves you well."

[RolloTheGreat]

I live a life that I am happy with Rollo, whether you would be happy with it I don't know and don't care to find out.  I don't live my life wondering if I've got one up on the Jones' or not.

As usual, you don't understand me at all.

Has nothing to do with anyone else.

My job gives me lots of free time to do what I really enjoy with friends and family.

All the things I buy are tools to do what I enjoy with friends and family.

All the investments are to insure I can retire at age when I can still enjoy my hobbies, and have the money to live comfortably while I do so.

I don't really care what the Jones' are up to, I hope they're doing the same because life is short.

[BoFox]

I'm impressed by Trump's aptitude for earning money, and his ability to appeal to a sector of voters with his carefully crafted speech.

I'm a lot smarter than the people he's crafting his speech for, and as such, his sophistry does not fly with me.

Impressed??  Trump was simply born with a platinum spoon in his mouth, and given the responsibility of managing millions of dollars each day.  That's how he grew up, and he did screw up a few times with bankruptcies, but he did manage to stay a billionaire after all. 

For those born with a spoon worth hundreds of millions of dollars in their mouth, all they have to do is stay hyper-social.  That is, be a freaking social butterfly constantly seeking the royal nectar among the rich - which is easy to do if already imbued with such a haughty class/caste status. 

One thing for sure, though, like with the rest of high-up politicians and most of the multi-millionaires out there, they're social slaves.  They have to socialize, socialize, and socialize like hell like 200-300+ days out of the year, with so damn many people.  It's actually rare for a super-rich person to not be so intensely and deeply social.  Life is filled with so much noise, that there is not much time and quietness to really sit back and look at the whole picture from a distance.  One is simply completely swamped with all things social.  It's like "me - you, you - me, me - you, you - me, me - you guys, you guys - me, me - you guys, you guys - me, me - you guys, you guys - me,.........
The entire body is submerged in the concoction of "I'm getting the prize", all the way up to the very nostrils - oh, so very much that one hardly ever has time to step back and genuinely contemplate where the demanding beast of the gold prize itself came from - if it should presently and constantly rule one's own life as to undertaking 90+% of own entire preoccupation throughout daily living - including bedtime dreams.  With such a dis-allowance of personal resignation of say, a few hours of waking hours each day, from being such a busy social bee dealing to-and-fro, is one actually a social slave, in the basest sense of the word, slave?  Is that all one's own life would amount to, in the long run?  Just a bunch of crazy social noise and clamor?  All of that here-and-fro with thousands upon thousands of powerful and demanding people, and many thousands more each month or even each week..?  Could one just go and climb mountains a few days each week in peace without the impossibly heavy social burden weighing down on the shoulders, without being horrendously interrupted by the discordantly excited encounter-ers that largely resonate from a certain nervousness, upon each path in the woods except for the utmost remote parts of the world?  Even a king who has the power to get away at will, to embark on a journey of solace at regular intervals, the king is barely freed from the mental preoccupation of the responsibilities of dealing with such abnormally social life that is so many times more intensive than that of an average patriot.  Every word uttered in one's own wake is not dealt with lightly - every word weighs a ton and hardly escapes being reviewed hundreds of times over with one's own personal reflection.  As a supernova is being seen by thousands of telescope mirrors, the supernova burns with its own inflated ruckus of compulsive reflection.


Hahahahahhaha, Trump!!  You just couldn't handle entering a Foxnews debate!  You want the prize as usual, but you don't want the responsibility, so you're torn apart!

[RolloTheGreat]

For somebody who supposedly doesn't care what the Jones' are up to you certainly spend an awful lot of time on the internet talking about your material wealth and comparing it to what others have - your truck vs my yaris, your tv's vs my hisense as quick examples.  Not to mention wanting to know what I enjoy drinking vs your cognac/bourbon or whatever it was.

I understand you just fine....

Hmmmm...

The whole auto debate stemmed from YOU stating "Stack'em high and sell'em cheap" was the way to sell cars in the US, and me pointing out the irrevocable fact the top 3 selling cars in the US are GM, Ram, and Ford trucks that cost over $30,000.

I didn't even know you had a HiSense tv, I was replying to a thread about "brown ice" and "bad color" in SBs tv. I found out in the thread you had a HiSense. I was arguing that HiSense TVs in general are bad based on the reviews, not that my tvs are "good" or luxury. I'd be the first to admit they're mid-range. Like most of the stuff I buy, it's my economic strategy. Maximize the stuff I can buy by purchasing when mid range when I see deals.

The bourbon thing was just part of my lifestyle back then. I used to drink more back then and I would look for quality stuff to drink, and talk about it with my friends. I would never try to "boast" of the liquor I consumed, I've never spent more than $65 on a bottle. (so I'm not a liquor snob saying "you need to try the $300 whiskey, all the other stuff is crap") It was more about finding the best flavor of whiskey/tequila/gin for a reasonable price. You never talked with people about what your favorite beverage is?!

Today is one year to the day since I last had a drink, so I'm probably not talking liquor at all these days. That was years ago.

So again I say, you don't know or understand me at all.

[RolloTheGreat]

BTW- trying to show off wealth is a fool's errand.

I'm rich compared to you GStan, but I'm poor compared to a lot of people I know, and they're poor compared to people they know, etc..

You have to be REALLY rich to play that game.

[SickBeast]

Trump seems to be gaining momentum. Are any of you guys planning on voting for him?

[RolloTheGreat]

Trump seems to be gaining momentum.  Are any of you guys planning on voting for him?

I'm not voting.

Dems want socialism.

Repubs want taxes for parochial schools, absence of gun regs, abortion outlawed, weird new immigration policies, and no marriage for teh gays.

I'm a man without a candidate.

[dmcowen674]

There is only one choice for President, Trump says he will stop this:

2-10-2016

Carrier to relocate 1,400 Indianapolis jobs to Mexico


Chris Nelson, president of HVAC Systems and Services North American, issued the following statement:

    “This move is intended to address the challenges we continue to face in a rapidly changing HVAC industry, with the continued migration of the HVAC industry to Mexico, including our suppliers and competitors, and ongoing cost and pricing pressures driven, in part, by new regulatory requirements.

    “Relocating our operations to a region where we have existing infrastructure and a strong supplier base will allow us to operate more cost effectively so that we can continue to produce high-quality HVAC products that are competitively positioned while continuing to meet customer needs.

    “This decision is difficult and we recognize the impact on employees, their families and the community. We are committed to ensuring that our employees are treated respectfully and to working closely with their representatives throughout this transition.”

Mayor Joe Hogsett releases this statement on Carrier’s announcement:

    “Today’s surprise announcement was without warning and incredibly disappointing. While I am obviously concerned about the economic impact, my top priority is the well-being of the hardworking families affected by this decision.

    A job lost in any part of our community affects us all, and I believe these are the times we must come together as one city to lift up our neighbors. That is why this afternoon I will issue an Executive Order to create a task force that will convene local, state, and federal resources and direct every tool at our disposal toward supporting these workers in the days ahead.”

[SteelCrysis]

You're right, the only choice is Donald Trump. The reason is because only he has enough strength of character to say what he wants and to point out what he wants to point out. Mind you, he's not without risk, but he's stronger as a personality than any President in a while.

[SickBeast]

I just wish Trump had never opened his fresh mouth. If he did not speak he could have been a great candidate. Now he just looks like a pig headed idiot. You guys have elected pig heads before though. Bush was a real doozie.

[BoFox]

Very interesting map showing different political stances of certain regions of the USA (and Canada) - it goes so far to show individual counties:

YANKEEDOM. Founded on the shores of Massachusetts Bay by radical Calvinists as a new Zion, Yankeedom has, since the outset, put great emphasis on perfecting earthly civilization through social engineering, denial of self for the common good, and assimilation of outsiders. It has prized education, intellectual achievement, communal empowerment, and broad citizen participation in politics and government, the latter seen as the public’s shield against the machinations of grasping aristocrats and other would-be tyrants. Since the early Puritans, it has been more comfortable with government regulation and public-sector social projects than many of the other nations, who regard the Yankee utopian streak with trepidation.
NEW NETHERLAND. Established by the Dutch at a time when the Netherlands was the most sophisticated society in the Western world, New Netherland has always been a global commercial culture—materialistic, with a profound tolerance for ethnic and religious diversity and an unflinching commitment to the freedom of inquiry and conscience. Like seventeenth-century Amsterdam, it emerged as a center of publishing, trade, and finance, a magnet for immigrants, and a refuge for those persecuted by other regional cultures, from Sephardim in the seventeenth century to gays, feminists, and bohemians in the early twentieth. Unconcerned with great moral questions, it nonetheless has found itself in alliance with Yankeedom to defend public institutions and reject evangelical prescriptions for individual behavior.
THE MIDLANDS. America’s great swing region was founded by English Quakers, who believed in humans’ inherent goodness and welcomed people of many nations and creeds to their utopian colonies like Pennsylvania on the shores of Delaware Bay. Pluralistic and organized around the middle class, the Midlands spawned the culture of Middle America and the Heartland, where ethnic and ideological purity have never been a priority, government has been seen as an unwelcome intrusion, and political opinion has been moderate. An ethnic mosaic from the start—it had a German, rather than British, majority at the time of the Revolution—it shares the Yankee belief that society should be organized to benefit ordinary people, though it rejects top-down government intervention.
TIDEWATER. Built by the younger sons of southern English gentry in the Chesapeake country and neighboring sections of Delaware and North Carolina, Tidewater was meant to reproduce the semifeudal society of the countryside they’d left behind. Standing in for the peasantry were indentured servants and, later, slaves. Tidewater places a high value on respect for authority and tradition, and very little on equality or public participation in politics. It was the most powerful of the American nations in the eighteenth century, but today it is in decline, partly because it was cut off from westward expansion by its boisterous Appalachian neighbors and, more recently, because it has been eaten away by the expanding federal halos around D.C. and Norfolk.
GREATER APPALACHIA. Founded in the early eighteenth century by wave upon wave of settlers from the war-ravaged borderlands of Northern Ireland, northern England, and the Scottish lowlands, Appalachia has been lampooned by writers and screenwriters as the home of hillbillies and rednecks. It transplanted a culture formed in a state of near constant danger and upheaval, characterized by a warrior ethic and a commitment to personal sovereignty and individual liberty. Intensely suspicious of lowland aristocrats and Yankee social engineers alike, Greater Appalachia has shifted alliances depending on who appeared to be the greatest threat to their freedom. It was with the Union in the Civil War. Since Reconstruction, and especially since the upheavals of the 1960s, it has joined with Deep South to counter federal overrides of local preference.
DEEP SOUTH. Established by English slave lords from Barbados, Deep South was meant as a West Indies–style slave society. This nation offered a version of classical Republicanism modeled on the slave states of the ancient world, where democracy was the privilege of the few and enslavement the natural lot of the many. Its caste systems smashed by outside intervention, it continues to fight against expanded federal powers, taxes on capital and the wealthy, and environmental, labor, and consumer regulations.
EL NORTE. The oldest of the American nations, El Norte consists of the borderlands of the Spanish American empire, which were so far from the seats of power in Mexico City and Madrid that they evolved their own characteristics. Most Americans are aware of El Norte as a place apart, where Hispanic language, culture, and societal norms dominate. But few realize that among Mexicans, norteños have a reputation for being exceptionally independent, self-sufficient, adaptable, and focused on work. Long a hotbed of democratic reform and revolutionary settlement, the region encompasses parts of Mexico that have tried to secede in order to form independent buffer states between their mother country and the United States.
THE LEFT COAST. A Chile-shaped nation wedged between the Pacific Ocean and the Cascade and Coast mountains, the Left Coast was originally colonized by two groups: New Englanders (merchants, missionaries, and woodsmen who arrived by sea and dominated the towns) and Appalachian midwesterners (farmers, prospectors, and fur traders who generally arrived by wagon and controlled the countryside). Yankee missionaries tried to make it a “New England on the Pacific,” but were only partially successful. Left Coast culture is a hybrid of Yankee utopianism and Appalachian self-expression and exploration—traits recognizable in its cultural production, from the Summer of Love to the iPad. The staunchest ally of Yankeedom, it clashes with Far Western sections in the interior of its home states.
THE FAR WEST. The other “second-generation” nation, the Far West occupies the one part of the continent shaped more by environmental factors than ethnographic ones. High, dry, and remote, the Far West stopped migrating easterners in their tracks, and most of it could be made habitable only with the deployment of vast industrial resources: railroads, heavy mining equipment, ore smelters, dams, and irrigation systems. As a result, settlement was largely directed by corporations headquartered in distant New York, Boston, Chicago, or San Francisco, or by the federal government, which controlled much of the land. The Far West’s people are often resentful of their dependent status, feeling that they have been exploited as an internal colony for the benefit of the seaboard nations. Their senators led the fight against trusts in the mid-twentieth century. Of late, Far Westerners have focused their anger on the federal government, rather than their corporate masters.
NEW FRANCE. Occupying the New Orleans area and southeastern Canada, New France blends the folkways of ancien régime northern French peasantry with the traditions and values of the aboriginal people they encountered in northeastern North America. After a long history of imperial oppression, its people have emerged as down-to-earth, egalitarian, and consensus driven, among the most liberal on the continent, with unusually tolerant attitudes toward gays and people of all races and a ready acceptance of government involvement in the economy. The New French influence is manifest in Canada, where multiculturalism and negotiated consensus are treasured.
FIRST NATION. First Nation is populated by native American groups that generally never gave up their land by treaty and have largely retained cultural practices and knowledge that allow them to survive in this hostile region on their own terms. The nation is now reclaiming its sovereignty, having won considerable autonomy in Alaska and Nunavut and a self-governing nation state in Greenland that stands on the threshold of full independence. Its territory is huge—far larger than the continental United States—but its population is less than 300,000, most of whom live in Canada.
- See more at: http://www.tufts.edu/alumni/magazine/fal...Voibb.dpuf

more in the above link
The runner-ups would do well to keep that in mind when trying to win each state..

Ocre would find this interesting - I'm PM'ing him in case he ever comes back.

[dmcowen674]

2-17-2016 Trump falls to 2nd in Polls, Ted Cruz now Front runner

[BoFox]

LOL, Trump just gonna keep fighting the fun fight until he has to face the stark seriousness.

[BoFox]

Further regarding the "American Nations Today" contrivance of Colin Woodward(?)..   
here's an article expanding on this with more tidbits and a lot more maps:
http://www.unz.com/jman/more-maps-of-the...n-nations/
(edit - and this one:  http://www.unz.com/jman/maps-of-the-american-nations/ )
And Canada as well.

I find the ancestry map particularly interesting - "New Netherland" is actually mostly Italian, like with Italian mobs, lol..

[RolloTheGreat]

And...Jeb Bush drops out.

[SickBeast]

Oh man it looks like Trump could win this thing!

[RolloTheGreat]

Oh man it looks like Trump could win this thing!

When Trump is prez he will build a wall between us and Canada to keep weasel Socialists where they belong. (up in their igloos)

No more heading to New Orleans to look at American titties and guzzle Hurricanes for you SB.

You'll have to go to the log rolling championship, guzzle Molson, and see if any of the lumberjills aren't wearing bras under their flannel.

[RolloTheGreat]

Well, it isn't a given that Trump will win.  I'm hoping that Hillary will win.  Don't particularly like her, but, the sanest and safest of the candidates, and already has knowledge of how to sail the ship.

She tried to do Obamacare before Obama and failed due to lack of supermajority in Congress, which is my main problem with her. Socialist.

Also, if she's elected into Republican majority Congress, 4 more years of nothing gets done.

We need to take on the Social Security issue:

http://money.usnews.com/money/blogs/plan...rity-fixes

Just a 1% bump over 20 years and removing the cap removes over 80% of the shortfall by 2033, this needs to get done, pronto.

http://money.usnews.com/money/blogs/plan...rity-fixes

(a form of socialism I'm in favor of- people who paid in their whole lives should get back what they expect, and it's all a LOT of Americans have in retirement)

[dmcowen674]

Oh man it looks like Trump could win this thing!

The Electoral College Delegates have already said Trump has the Presidency locked up.

[SteelCrysis]

Well, it isn't a given that Trump will win. I'm hoping that Hillary will win. Don't particularly like her, but, the sanest and safest of the candidates, and already has knowledge of how to sail the ship.

And a whole lot of dishonesty too, as well as misuse of personal email accounts that jeopardized national security.

[RolloTheGreat]

Oh man it looks like Trump could win this thing!

The Electoral College Delegates have already said Trump has the Presidency locked up.

If so, Obamacare was a very short experiment:

http://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/270...re-mandate