High wages for unskilled labor, attn GStan

[RolloTheGreat]

Here's something for you to ponder GStan.

If you think those who earn more than you should help more, why don't you:
A. Go back to school, learn a more lucrative profession, and start helping?
B. Get a part time job and start helping?

OR

C. Why don't the poor get a second job and help themselves?

Point being: It's pretty easy to say "I approve of stealing money others have earned and spending it. It's pretty hard to go earn the money yourself.

And that is why those who do deserve to keep it, or at least choose whether or not to help.

[SickBeast]

Actually having left leaning political beliefs is a sign of intelligence:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/lifestyle/smar...ss-BBEeLS9

I'm not surprised.

[RolloTheGreat]

Actually having left leaning political beliefs is a sign of intelligence:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/lifestyle/smar...ss-BBEeLS9

I'm not surprised.  

Yet you're the one using a generalization fallacy to imply I may not be intelligent because you perceive my politics as conservative.

Not much sense in that, is there?

Your weak argument is no better than "ethnic group X is statistically more likely to be in jail, as a member of ethnic group x you are either in jail or should be".

Whatever you teach, logic and debate aren't key components from what I can tell.

[RolloTheGreat]

Here's something for you to ponder GStan.

If you think those who earn more than you should help more, why don't you:
A. Go back to school, learn a more lucrative profession, and start helping?
B. Get a part time job and start helping?

OR

C. Why don't the poor get a second job and help themselves?

Point being: It's pretty easy to say "I approve of stealing money others have earned and spending it. It's pretty hard to go earn the money yourself.

And that is why those who do deserve to keep it, or at least choose whether or not to help.

There is no stealing going on!  Members of society pay taxes so that society works for everybody, not just individuals.

You are just greedy.  You want all the benefits being part of a society brings but you dont want to contribute to it!  Thats what is disgusting in this thread, not the article I linked or the altruistic 76% it identifies.

Society shouldn't work for shirkers at the expense of workers.

In the states, there's a big opioid/heroin epidemic going on. People choose to become dope addicts, this is irrefutable. Dope addicts can have a hard time holding a job, also irrefutable.

If Parliament (or whatever you guys have)decrees "Society is not working for our dopers, they are forced to commit crimes for dope. We are levying a $2000/year tax on all working citizens to cover cost of living and rehab for these poor unfortunates" will you be saying "Yes! Thank you! Society was letting them down and I want to help!" or will you be saying "F*** that! What do I owe them?!"?

No one here disapproves of programs to help the very old, the very young, the disabled and the temporarily unemployed. Most of us don't even mind helping families where the parents put in their 40.

We don't like socialism because it says guys like Apoppin can say, "I choose to do a job that pays next to nothing. The rest of you should pay for my healthcare and retirement, because I like that job.".

It's ridiculous. Same with dope dealers, prostitutes, burglars, and the like.

[SickBeast]

You know Rollo, I had similar discussions with a friend of mine who is extremely conservative.  I'm sure that a lot of it stems from social conservatism, however he is steadfast in his beliefs and he often espouses his political beliefs and is very opinionated about it.  He was talking about the minimum wage.  He gave the example of himself as a business owner, wanting to hire someone for $10 an hour, and the worker agreed.  He didn't think it was fair for the government to interfere with that and force him to pay the worker a higher wage.  What I said to him was that he does definitely have a point there.  However when it comes to political policy, they need to consider the "greater good".  Large corporations like McDonald's can afford to pay their workers more.  There has been study after study and economist after economist in favor of a higher minimum wage.  The only people opposed are the businesses, and that is primarily driven by their own greed.  I can say the same thing about taxes or progressive taxation in general.  On the surface it is incredibly unfair.  However you need to see the bigger picture.  Without socialism we would have countless millions in our societies starving.  I suggest you do some reading about the French revolution and see what happened when Marie Antoinette said "let them eat cake".  We can't live in a society with such disparity.  At least I can't.  Same thing with the CEOs.  I don't think it's right that they earn $10 million+ salaries while all the other workers are stuck at $30K, struggling to get by.

The way I look at it, you need to see the forest through the trees.  You are only seeing the trees.  Like I said, on a superficial level you are absolutely 100% correct.  However once you look at the bigger picture you will start to see the benefits of these things.

My guess is that you can't, which I find very hard to relate to.

[SteelCrysis]

Actually having left leaning political beliefs is a sign of intelligence:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/lifestyle/smar...ss-BBEeLS9

I'm not surprised.  

But it also puts people at increased risk of being psychotic: http://nymag.com/scienceofus/2016/07/why...icism.html

[SickBeast]

Actually having left leaning political beliefs is a sign of intelligence:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/lifestyle/smar...ss-BBEeLS9

I'm not surprised.  

But it also puts people at increased risk of being psychotic: http://nymag.com/scienceofus/2016/07/why...icism.html

Hmm...

[RolloTheGreat]

You know Rollo, I had similar discussions with a friend of mine who is extremely conservative.  I'm sure that a lot of it stems from social conservatism, however he is steadfast in his beliefs and he often espouses his political beliefs and is very opinionated about it.  He was talking about the minimum wage.  He gave the example of himself as a business owner, wanting to hire someone for $10 an hour, and the worker agreed.  He didn't think it was fair for the government to interfere with that and force him to pay the worker a higher wage.  What I said to him was that he does definitely have a point there.  However when it comes to political policy, they need to consider the "greater good".  Large corporations like McDonald's can afford to pay their workers more.  There has been study after study and economist after economist in favor of a higher minimum wage.  The only people opposed are the businesses, and that is primarily driven by their own greed.  I can say the same thing about taxes or progressive taxation in general.  On the surface it is incredibly unfair.  However you need to see the bigger picture.  Without socialism we would have countless millions in our societies starving.  I suggest you do some reading about the French revolution and see what happened when Marie Antoinette said "let them eat cake".  We can't live in a society with such disparity.  At least I can't.  Same thing with the CEOs.  I don't think it's right that they earn $10 million+ salaries while all the other workers are stuck at $30K, struggling to get by.

The way I look at it, you need to see the forest through the trees.  You are only seeing the trees.  Like I said, on a superficial level you are absolutely 100% correct.  However once you look at the bigger picture you will start to see the benefits of these things.

My guess is that you can't, which I find very hard to relate to.

McDonalds and most of the other big corps started out as mom and pop small businesses. McDonalds began as a hot dog stand.

If you legislate a wage small business can't pay:

A. You wipe out the competition, innovation and variety they bring
B. You enslave us all to working for existing large corps and give them more power over us. (We won't be able to start own businesses any longer)

[SickBeast]

You know Rollo, I had similar discussions with a friend of mine who is extremely conservative. I'm sure that a lot of it stems from social conservatism, however he is steadfast in his beliefs and he often espouses his political beliefs and is very opinionated about it. He was talking about the minimum wage. He gave the example of himself as a business owner, wanting to hire someone for $10 an hour, and the worker agreed. He didn't think it was fair for the government to interfere with that and force him to pay the worker a higher wage. What I said to him was that he does definitely have a point there. However when it comes to political policy, they need to consider the "greater good". Large corporations like McDonald's can afford to pay their workers more. There has been study after study and economist after economist in favor of a higher minimum wage. The only people opposed are the businesses, and that is primarily driven by their own greed. I can say the same thing about taxes or progressive taxation in general. On the surface it is incredibly unfair. However you need to see the bigger picture. Without socialism we would have countless millions in our societies starving. I suggest you do some reading about the French revolution and see what happened when Marie Antoinette said "let them eat cake". We can't live in a society with such disparity. At least I can't. Same thing with the CEOs. I don't think it's right that they earn $10 million+ salaries while all the other workers are stuck at $30K, struggling to get by.

The way I look at it, you need to see the forest through the trees. You are only seeing the trees. Like I said, on a superficial level you are absolutely 100% correct. However once you look at the bigger picture you will start to see the benefits of these things.

My guess is that you can't, which I find very hard to relate to.

McDonalds and most of the other big corps started out as mom and pop small businesses. McDonalds began as a hot dog stand.

If you legislate a wage small business can't pay:

A. You wipe out the competition, innovation and variety they bring
B. You enslave us all to working for existing large corps and give them more power over us. (We won't be able to start own businesses any longer)

Well, it is being attempted in Ontario, Canada. $15CAD/hour. We will see if their economy collapses. Lately the Canadian economy had been on fire, the feds just raised interest rates this week.

[RolloTheGreat]

I love how Trollo tries to equate small business to macdonalds.  As if it originally being a hot dog stand has any relevance whatsoever to what it is now.

Most small businesses are sole proprietorships that employ the person who started the business and no-one else.  If they expand they employ that persons immediate family members and possibly one or two members of the general public if they can fulfil a role a family member can't or wont.

I love how Gstan talks out of his ass and spouts nonsense about things he doesn't know anything about, but could Google in about one second.

http://sbecouncil.org/about-us/facts-and-data/

In 2012, according to U.S. Census Bureau data, there were 5.73 million employer firms in the U.S. Firms with fewer than 500 workers accounted for 99.7 percent of those businesses, and businesses with less than 20 workers made up 89.6 percent. Add in the number of nonemployer businesses – there were 23.0 million in 2013 – then the share of U.S. businesses with less than 20 workers increases to 97.9 percent.

[Among employer C Corporations in 2012, 99.2 percent had less than 500 workers, and 86.2 percent had fewer than 20 employees.

So while there are indeed more one man companies in the US, 99.2% of all employers have less than 500 workers. There aren't enough "big corps" for everyone to work for.

I note how McDonalds started as a hot dog stand because that's how a lot of service industry (food, cleaning, construction, plumbing, glass, etc) windows start- small businesses that grow to chains.

The right of some people to make artificially inflated wages should not supersede the right of others to pursue the American dream of starting a business and growing it.

[RolloTheGreat]

Realistic wages don't impede the American dream of starting your own business, as your own quote demonstrates:

In 2012, according to U.S. Census Bureau data, there were 5.73 million employer firms in the U.S. Firms with fewer than 500 workers accounted for 99.7 percent of those businesses, and businesses with less than 20 workers made up 89.6 percent. Add in the number of nonemployer businesses – there were 23.0 million in 2013 – then the share of U.S. businesses with less than 20 workers increases to 97.9 percent.

and unless you are close family to those businesses chances are excellent they won't be employing you no matter what rate the minimum wage is!

Feel free to believe what you like, I'll keep being glad you don't make laws here.

Speaking of, with a Republican House, Senate and Executive branch what do you place the $15/hour minimum wage's chances at? Zero? Or less than zero?

[SickBeast]

Realistic wages don't impede the American dream of starting your own business, as your own quote demonstrates:

In 2012, according to U.S. Census Bureau data, there were 5.73 million employer firms in the U.S. Firms with fewer than 500 workers accounted for 99.7 percent of those businesses, and businesses with less than 20 workers made up 89.6 percent. Add in the number of nonemployer businesses – there were 23.0 million in 2013 – then the share of U.S. businesses with less than 20 workers increases to 97.9 percent.

and unless you are close family to those businesses chances are excellent they won't be employing you no matter what rate the minimum wage is!

Feel free to believe what you like, I'll keep being glad you don't make laws here.

Speaking of, with a Republican House, Senate and Executive branch what do you place the $15/hour minimum wage's chances at? Zero? Or less than zero?

They will never do it. Trump is very pro-business. He wants to eliminate red tape, not create more. Republicans tend to be very pro-business also.

I will admit that a $15 minimum wage is risky. We really don't know for sure what the outcome will be, good or bad.

[RolloTheGreat]

Speaking of, with a Republican House, Senate and Executive branch what do you place the $15/hour minimum wage's chances at? Zero? Or less than zero?

There are congressional and senatorial elections coming up pretty soon, aren't there?  We will see if the republican keep control of congress or not.

In Australia the liberals govern by just one seat.  In the UK the tories are a minority government reliant on the goodwill of other parties to govern.  The world is tiring of dogmatic conservatism, will the USA be the first country to throw the conservatives out entirely?  Would be delightfully ironic given the idiotic T-Party started all this rabid conservative crap in the USA in the first place.

I hope they do not retain control of Congress, but the Federal Minimum Wage won't be raised to $15 no matter what happens.

It's too radical a departure from what's been done to date, by liberals and conservatives.

[SickBeast]

I find taking healthcare away from 22 million people, essentially sentencing them to death if they contract a fatal disease, far more radical than raising the minimum wage to $15. Perhaps I care too much about my fellow man. I just can't do that to someone if I can do anything about it.

[RolloTheGreat]

I find taking healthcare away from 22 million people, essentially sentencing them to death if they contract a fatal disease, far more radical than raising the minimum wage to $15.  Perhaps I care too much about my fellow man.  I just can't do that to someone if I can do anything about it.

I think if they contract a fatal disease they're dead with or without health care, the "fatal" is the tell tale clue?

As far as taking healthcare from people, I learned a magic trick to get around that back in the day.

You get a "job" and your employer gives you healthcare with it!

http://www.cnbc.com/2016/07/13/number-of...acare.html

Employer-sponsored insurance is, by far, the the most common source of health coverage in the United States.

There are an estimated 155 million people under age 65 covered by such plans. That dwarfs the 76 million or so people covered by Medicaid, the government-run program that benefits primarily poor people and children, and the approximately 55 million covered by Medicare, the government program primarily for senior citizens.

Just 11.1 million people are currently covered by Obamacare plans sold via government-run marketplaces.

What Obamacare did to expand coverage was allow people like Apoppin to say,"My job is now benchmarking video cards! The taxpayers can buy my health insurance because no one will give it to me for benchmarking video cards." which is pretty much crap. We always had help for the young, old, disabled, very poor.

[SickBeast]

I find taking healthcare away from 22 million people, essentially sentencing them to death if they contract a fatal disease[/B], far more radical than raising the minimum wage to $15.  Perhaps I care too much about my fellow man.  I just can't do that to someone if I can do anything about it.

I think if they contract a fatal disease they're dead with or without health care, the "fatal" is the tell tale clue?

As far as taking healthcare from people, I learned a magic trick to get around that back in the day.

You get a "job" and your employer gives you healthcare with it!

http://www.cnbc.com/2016/07/13/number-of...acare.html

Employer-sponsored insurance is, by far, the the most common source of health coverage in the United States.

There are an estimated 155 million people under age 65 covered by such plans. That dwarfs the 76 million or so people covered by Medicaid, the government-run program that benefits primarily poor people and children, and the approximately 55 million covered by Medicare, the government program primarily for senior citizens.

Just 11.1 million people are currently covered by Obamacare plans sold via government-run marketplaces.

What Obamacare did to expand coverage was allow people like Apoppin to say,"My job is now benchmarking video cards! The taxpayers can buy my health insurance because no one will give it to me for benchmarking video cards." which is pretty much crap. We always had help for the young, old, disabled, very poor.
[/quote]
Sometimes people fall on hard times. 22 million is a lot of people. You really think they can all go out and find a job tomorrow?

[RolloTheGreat]

Sometimes people fall on hard times. 22 million is a lot of people. You really think they can all go out and find a job tomorrow?

And sometimes people make their own hard times with booze, dope, sloth, too proud to do "that kind of work".

When Obamacare passed we had 86% of people with health insurance and 8% unemployment. So we had 94% of people either covered or looking for work and a big percentage of the rest were college age young folks who didn't have insurance, but didn't really need it either because when you're that age you usually don't have health issues or visit doctors much.

Is it a tragedy people couldn't say, "I'm going to live in mom's basement and collect aluminum cans for scrap and maybe mow some lawns for spare cash for weed and slurpees, some folks with real jobs will just have to buy my healthcare."? Not in my opinion, safety nets should be just that- not people choosing to take money from others.

[SickBeast]

You think you have it all figured out, Rollo. Like I keep telling you, we pay less per capita on health care here, and everyone is covered. It looks like we will also have universal pharma care also.

By the way, last night I was at a party and I had a very interesting conversation with someone from Australia. His brother is living in Madison, Wisconsin. He said that houses are cheap where you live, he said that for $400,000 you can basically get a mansion. However he said that property taxes there are insane, along with health care costs. As for Australia they were telling me that they are very happy here in Canada. They said that where they are from in Australia it costs at least $1.5 million for a modest home, and everything you buy there is 50% more expensive, including cars. They said that they like the four seasons here in Canada, just that our winters are a bit too long. Very interesting conversation. I thought I would share.

[RolloTheGreat]

You think you have it all figured out, Rollo. Like I keep telling you, we pay less per capita on health care here, and everyone is covered. It looks like we will also have universal pharma care also.

By the way, last night I was at a party and I had a very interesting conversation with someone from Australia. His brother is living in Madison, Wisconsin. He said that houses are cheap where you live, he said that for $400,000 you can basically get a mansion. However he said that property taxes there are insane, along with health care costs. As for Australia they were telling me that they are very happy here in Canada. They said that where they are from in Australia it costs at least $1.5 million for a modest home, and everything you buy there is 50% more expensive, including cars. They said that they like the four seasons here in Canada, just that our winters are a bit too long. Very interesting conversation. I thought I would share.

Oh how I wish I lived somewhere that you have to pay ton of money to live in an average or worse house........

Not.

We get the four seasons too, but winter doesn't last 7 months here.

Thanks for proving my inflation in Australia point.

[SickBeast]

You think you have it all figured out, Rollo. Like I keep telling you, we pay less per capita on health care here, and everyone is covered. It looks like we will also have universal pharma care also.

By the way, last night I was at a party and I had a very interesting conversation with someone from Australia. His brother is living in Madison, Wisconsin. He said that houses are cheap where you live, he said that for $400,000 you can basically get a mansion. However he said that property taxes there are insane, along with health care costs. As for Australia they were telling me that they are very happy here in Canada. They said that where they are from in Australia it costs at least $1.5 million for a modest home, and everything you buy there is 50% more expensive, including cars. They said that they like the four seasons here in Canada, just that our winters are a bit too long. Very interesting conversation. I thought I would share.

Oh how I wish I lived somewhere that you have to pay ton of money to live in an average or worse house........

Not.

We get the four seasons too, but winter doesn't last 7 months here.

Thanks for proving my inflation in Australia point.

I am hearing that the property taxes in the USA can be $12000 to $15000USD per year. That's a lot of money! $1000USD per month. We pay a fraction of that here. I would much rather put that money into a mortgage; at least it's an investing that you can recoup when you sell your home. $1000USD/month will buy you something like $250,000 on a mortgage.

Your winters in Wisconsin are comparable to or worse than the winters most Canadians experience. Most Canadians live in the south of our country near the US border. Wisconsin is quite far north in the US.

[RolloTheGreat]

You think you have it all figured out, Rollo. Like I keep telling you, we pay less per capita on health care here, and everyone is covered. It looks like we will also have universal pharma care also.

By the way, last night I was at a party and I had a very interesting conversation with someone from Australia. His brother is living in Madison, Wisconsin. He said that houses are cheap where you live, he said that for $400,000 you can basically get a mansion. However he said that property taxes there are insane, along with health care costs. As for Australia they were telling me that they are very happy here in Canada. They said that where they are from in Australia it costs at least $1.5 million for a modest home, and everything you buy there is 50% more expensive, including cars. They said that they like the four seasons here in Canada, just that our winters are a bit too long. Very interesting conversation. I thought I would share.

Oh how I wish I lived somewhere that you have to pay ton of money to live in an average or worse house........

Not.

We get the four seasons too, but winter doesn't last 7 months here.

Thanks for proving my inflation in Australia point.

I am hearing that the property taxes in the USA can be $12000 to $15000USD per year.  That's a lot of money!  $1000USD per month.  We pay a fraction of that here.  I would much rather put that money into a mortgage; at least it's an investing that you can recoup when you sell your home.  $1000USD/month will buy you something like $250,000 on a mortgage.

Your winters in Wisconsin are comparable to or worse than the winters most Canadians experience.  Most Canadians live in the south of our country near the US border.  Wisconsin is quite far north in the US.

http://www.starkhomes.com/property/74458...n-wi-53719

There's a $400K house in Madison, taxes $8.723.

http://www.starkhomes.com/property/11009...d-wi-53558

There's a $400K house in McFarland, a couple miles out of town, taxes $6883.

http://www.starkhomes.com/property/11504...n-wi-53562

There's a $400K house in Middleton, borders on Madison, taxes $5800..

You don't pay taxes like you're talking about unless you live on a lake and have shoreline.

When I think of Canada, I think of the country on the other side of Lake Superior which is pretty far North from Madiosn. Winnipeg would have very different climate than Madison, Toronto not so much.

In any case,this does not look like a good deal to me:

https://www.rew.ca/properties/W3873809/3...toronto-on

$649,000 for THAT house? Sure the taxes are only $2500, but you have to live in that house. That would change your whole quality of life.

[SickBeast]

You think you have it all figured out, Rollo. Like I keep telling you, we pay less per capita on health care here, and everyone is covered. It looks like we will also have universal pharma care also.

By the way, last night I was at a party and I had a very interesting conversation with someone from Australia. His brother is living in Madison, Wisconsin. He said that houses are cheap where you live, he said that for $400,000 you can basically get a mansion. However he said that property taxes there are insane, along with health care costs. As for Australia they were telling me that they are very happy here in Canada. They said that where they are from in Australia it costs at least $1.5 million for a modest home, and everything you buy there is 50% more expensive, including cars. They said that they like the four seasons here in Canada, just that our winters are a bit too long. Very interesting conversation. I thought I would share.

Oh how I wish I lived somewhere that you have to pay ton of money to live in an average or worse house........

Not.

We get the four seasons too, but winter doesn't last 7 months here.

Thanks for proving my inflation in Australia point.

I am hearing that the property taxes in the USA can be $12000 to $15000USD per year.  That's a lot of money!  $1000USD per month.  We pay a fraction of that here.  I would much rather put that money into a mortgage; at least it's an investing that you can recoup when you sell your home.  $1000USD/month will buy you something like $250,000 on a mortgage.

Your winters in Wisconsin are comparable to or worse than the winters most Canadians experience.  Most Canadians live in the south of our country near the US border.  Wisconsin is quite far north in the US.

http://www.starkhomes.com/property/74458...n-wi-53719

There's a $400K house in Madison, taxes $8.723.

http://www.starkhomes.com/property/11009...d-wi-53558

There's a $400K house in McFarland, a couple miles out of town, taxes $6883.

http://www.starkhomes.com/property/11504...n-wi-53562

There's a $400K house in Middleton, borders on Madison, taxes $5800..

You don't pay taxes like you're talking about unless you live on a lake and have shoreline.

When I think of Canada, I think of the country on the other side of Lake Superior which is pretty far North from Madiosn. Winnipeg would have very different climate than Madison, Toronto not so much.

In any case,this does not look like a good deal to me:

https://www.rew.ca/properties/W3873809/3...toronto-on

$649,000 for THAT house? Sure the taxes are only $2500, but you have to live in that house. That would change your whole quality of life.

So you pay $6,000USD/year more in property taxes there. Multiply that times a 25 year mortgage and we're talking about $150,000. That's a lot of money. Probably over $200,000CAD. I find it interesting that Americans are always talking about how much more tax we pay up here in Canada when really those property taxes largely make up the difference. Plus we get free healthcare, better roads, no toll roads, and better government and social services for the most part.

[RolloTheGreat]

So you pay $6,000USD/year more in property taxes there.  Multiply that times a 25 year mortgage and we're talking about $150,000.  That's a lot of money.  Probably over $200,000CAD.  I find it interesting that Americans are always talking about how much more tax we pay up here in Canada when really those property taxes largely make up the difference.  Plus we get free healthcare, better roads, no toll roads, and better government and social services for the most part.

I imagine everyone is immigrating to Canada instead of the US..oh..yeh, guess not.

SB it's obvious Canada does some things better than we do here, but we also do some things better here as well. Like everything else in life, pros/cons.

I'm pretty sure neither of us can change the country we live in. I would say that if I were to leave the US, Canada is likely where I would go. I'm not leaving the US though.

[RolloTheGreat]

I'd also note my example on the housing prices is bad, much bigger city in Canada used for my example.

Big cities are a rip-off here as well, I don't know why anyone even lives in them.

"Yay! I can pay half a million+ for a run down bungalow that would cost $100K in a small city and get to deal with crime, traffic, people everywhere I turn around, noise, pollution, higher prices for everything else."


I'm probably biased because I've lived most my life here but it seems to me small to medium sized cities (200,000-400,000) offer employment, entertainment, shopping, great housing value, low traffic, crime, etc..

I get not wanting to live in the sticks- just considered it. I don't see ANY upside to big city life though.

[SickBeast]

I'd also note my example on the housing prices is bad, much bigger city in Canada used for my example.

Big cities are a rip-off here as well, I don't know why anyone even lives in them.

"Yay! I can pay half a million+ for a run down bungalow that would cost $100K in a small city and get to deal with crime, traffic, people everywhere I turn around, noise, pollution, higher prices for everything else."


I'm probably biased because I've lived most my life here but it seems to me small to medium sized cities (200,000-400,000) offer employment, entertainment, shopping, great housing value, low traffic, crime, etc..

I get not wanting to live in the sticks- just considered it. I don't see ANY upside to big city life though.

Well I did find it very interesting hearing from someone that Madison is a great place to live. You are correct in pointing out that smaller cities are cheaper, the same thing goes here in Canada. So congrats if you're happy there. I am happy here also. If I didn't have so many friends and family here I would consider leaving. Overall it's great here though. I plan to buy a second home somewhere warm when I retire. I'm thinking about California, Arizona, or Florida. Maybe somewhere tropical like a time share.

I could also live like a king in a smaller city in Canada. I just have too much tying me down to where I live currently. I would love to do it if the circumstances were right.

[RolloTheGreat]

Well I did find it very interesting hearing from someone that Madison is a great place to live.  You are correct in pointing out that smaller cities are cheaper, the same thing goes here in Canada.  So congrats if you're happy there.  I am happy here also.  If I didn't have so many friends and family here I would consider leaving.  Overall it's great here though.  I plan to buy a second home somewhere warm when I retire.  I'm thinking about California, Arizona, or Florida.  Maybe somewhere tropical like a time share.

I could also live like a king in a smaller city in Canada.  I just have too much tying me down to where I live currently.  I would love to do it if the circumstances were right.

https://livability.com/wi/madison/real-e...in-america

Madison sits atop our 2015 ranking of the Top 100 Best Places to Live.

http://realestate.usnews.com/places/wisconsin/madison

U.S. News analyzed 100 metro areas in the United States to find the best places to live based on quality of life and the job market in each metro area, as well as the value of living there and people's desire to live there.

Madison ranks as #18 with an overall score of 7.0 out of 10.

http://www.businessinsider.com/why-madis...ive-2014-9

Reasons Why Madison, Wisconsin Is The Best Place To Live In America

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/02/27...44142.html

5 Reasons Madison, WI May Be the World's Best Place To Retire

I'm not living here because it sucks or I have to. I work at home so I can work anywhere with broadband, and Mrs. Rollo is a manager accountant who has experience in a lot of areas. We could literally move to any city and live well.

This is just a really good place to live.

[SickBeast]

Yeah but then you have to be a Milwaukee Brewers fan.

[SickBeast]

I was talking to someone I know recently and he brought up the best counter argument to the $15 minimum wage that I have heard thus far. He said that a $15 minimum wage would essentially completely kill off all manufacturing jobs in Canada because it would make our end products uncompetitive compared to other countries like China where they have much lower wages. The stuff made here would cost too much. There is talk of the government offering incentives to counteract the cost of the higher wages. Also, like I said, I wish they would all just slash their executive salaries to make up the difference. Hopefully there is a way to make it happen without destroying the economy. I think it would have a lot of great benefits to society overall, and I really do think that aspects of it could actually really stimulate the economy.

I would *love* to see legislation to reign in executive salaries at corporations. Or just tax them to the point that such a high salary becomes pointless. In pro sports a lot of the athletes have salary caps. I say why not executives also.

[RolloTheGreat]

And yet, no one else is doing this.

[RolloTheGreat]

LOL

Wowee! ONE other company did this!

It's a...well...nothing really

[RolloTheGreat]

I think trade schools are great, and that there is a huge need in this country for skilled labor.

Masters and PhD have their place as well, but certainly greater need for tech. Sort of makes sense there are more entry level jobs?

You dont get a Masters or PhD hoping for entry level, it's an investment you make hoping to  enter management.

[RolloTheGreat]

You cant generalize like that. No businesses are hiring people out of trade school to do a lot of jobs that require bachelors degrees, or Masters or PhDs.

You cant just go be a CPA, a medical Dr, a research scientist, or an engineer because you studied to be a machinist. But you can go and get a good job, that might pay more than the guy with the bachelors or masters.

[RolloTheGreat]

That is a difference in where we live, for sure 2 of 3 you listed require a bachelors by law here. (And the engineering might)

Also, it's a seller's market for labor here, more people looking for staff than staff.

Companies have to compete with benefit packages for labor. (Skilled labor anyway, there are always warm bodies)