Texas Governor Deploys National Guard To Stave Off Obama Takeover

[RolloTheGreat]

LOL! Rollo, you really should not get your info off of the back of your breakfast cereal packet!  It's likely to embarrass you - badly.

Don't know what to tell you Greg. You've been wrong about everything so far, so this outlandish post is not entirely unexpected.

I just used zip code 53707 in the Toyota Configurator and built a 4 cylinder Tacoma.

Then I searched carsoup.com for 4 cylinder, new, 2015-2015, Toyota Tacoma, 4 cylinder engine. Came up with forty 2015 4 cylinder Tacomas for sale within 500 miles of zip code 53707.

http://www.carsoup.com/for-sale/Toyota/T...code=53707

You're consistent at least.

---

You know what is crazy about this debate?

We've got Greg in a tiny little country over 9000 miles away, trying to tell Americans what sort of marketing works here, what the American people are buying, and what the American people "should" be doing.

Want to know how much I k now about the buying habits and ways of people in Australia? 0.0

Want to know how much I care about the buying habits or ways of the people of Austalia? 0.0

Yet here's Greg, " You yanks are FOOLS buying expensive cars! All a bloke needs is the son of the Yugo, the Yaris! Plenty of passenger room for a good size chicken and a cell phone!".

You may have to accept that watching the local news every day, and living among the people I may have a "bit" more understanding of what's going on in the USA than you Greg.

[RolloTheGreat]

I don't think you do Rollo, certainly not when it comes to the poorer citizens of the USA (and there are plenty of them).

My information came directly from Toyota's own website.  If you have an issue with it take it up with Toyota.  Perhaps earlier on this year there may have been a 4 cylinder option being sold and since then Toyota has reconsidered and decided to offer only the V6 as standard.  Your dealers are selling old stock off (to gullible people who don't research properly, but then that is how the rich acquire most of their fortunes - conning and ripping off the vulnerable, trusting and uninformed).

I think you need to use your mod powers to edit your name to "Greg Wrongford":

http://www.torquenews.com/1083/2016-toyo...questioned

Toyota's product communications manager Craig Taguchi told us “The 2016 Tacoma 4-cylinder will be available with a 5-speed manual transmission, along with the new 6-speed automatic transmission.”

The 2015 Tacoma brochure lists the 4 cylinder as the standard engine on 3/4 of the models:

http://www.toyota.com/tacoma/ebrochure/

LOL

1. Car review sites all say 2015 4 cylinder Tacos are base engine.
2. Toyota car builder web site says 2015 4 Cylinder Tacos available.
3. Toyota dealers have 2015 4 cylinder Tacos for sale.
4. Toyota PR says 4 cylinder Tacos will be available in 2016.
5 Toyota's sales brochure for 2015 lists the 4 cylinder as the standard engine on every model but one.

Greg: "There is no such thing as a 4 cylinder Toyota Tacoma! Disregard all of the 4 cylinder Tacomas you see for sale in your town, and the lies Toyota is telling the press and putting on their web site! Only I have the true information about Toyotas, and I will guide you! I have seen a web page, it must be true!"

I'm starting to see a big similarity between you and BFG10K, I used to have discussions like this with him all the time.

Rollo: NVIDIA told me they are coming out with a new form of Super Sampling Anti Aliasing, good news!
BFG10K: Rubbish! There is no such thing!
Rollo: (posts links to six articles discussing the new AA, and a picture of an email from NVIDIA staffer confirming it)
BFG10K: Well I meant it does not exist for a cell shaded game from 13 years ago that I play all the time. If it doesn't exist for that, it doesn't matter! I am right, you are wrong!"

Are you guys twins?

[RolloTheGreat]

Here's some more information for you Greg"

In the top ten selling vehicles in America over $50,000.00 pickup trucks occupy spots 1,2,5, and 10. Must be a lot of "redneck hillbillies" who apparently have enough cash to spend more than a lot of people make in a year on a pickup, eh, Greg?

http://www.cheatsheet.com/automobiles/10...?a=viewall

If a vehicle can handle any work task and also look good when hitting the town Saturday nights, wouldn’t that automobile fill two niches at once? U.S. consumers are officially on board with this version of premium.

"Stack'em high and sell'em cheap", eh Greg?

Meanwhile, how are Toyota trucks doing here??

http://www.goodcarbadcar.net/2011/01/toy...gures.html

Wow, Toyota sold a whole 100,000 Tundras, compared to the ~2,000,000 full size trucks GM/Ford/RAM sold last year.

So about 5% of American truck buyers choose Toyota. LOL

[RolloTheGreat]

You should contact Toyota and point out that their website is inaccurate if you truly believe it is.

I think you are the one who should contact Toyota Greg.

You are apparently the only person on the planet who thinks Tacomas can't be purchased with a 4 cylinder.

Not that it would matter.

I think the Emperor of Japan and the CEO of Toyota could fly to Australia and say to you,"Mr. Stanford, Mr. Rollo is right. We've always had the 4 cylinder as our base engine on the Tacoma, and have no plans to change." and you would reply, "I saw a web page, I don't care if you, all the other web pages, and the trucks sitting on dealer lots say differently, the web page I found is right!"

How can anyone believe ANYTHING you say when you refuse to believe such easily and commonly available information?

[RolloTheGreat]

Who, except for you is talking $50K trucks?!  and how is Tundra sales figures relevant to the Tacoma?!

You are trolling.  STOP!

You're the one who said (repeatedly) people who spend over $20K on vehicles are "fools" and that Americans want cheap value.

I've proved (to everyone but you) the best selling vehicles in America cost over $30K, and a big chunk of those over $50K.

P3wnd.

[RolloTheGreat]

Low income earners don't give a flying fuck about what is and isn't best selling, they care about what they can afford to purchase.  and reliability, Toyota's pickup trucks are the most reliable out there at any price, just like their passenger cars.

This tactic is known as "moving the goalposts" in the logical fallacies.

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Moving_the_goalposts

This all started with you putting forth "stack'em high and sell'em cheap" being a time tested way to market, and me saying that in the USA, in several markets, it's the opposite of the best way to market because our people are prosperous.

I cited the auto market as one of my examples. You disagreed and said it still applies.

I proved you wrong by showing that 15 of our 20 best selling cars have a MSRP beginning above your $20K threshold for what you think the popular cars sell for.

Then things got weird with you saying things like:

1.Only "Southern redneck hillbillies" would want to drive a full size pickup.
I proved you wrong (again) by showing stats that four of our top ten best selling $50K+ luxury cars are indeed pickup trucks, which are a HUGE suburban craze here. I live in the suburbs, when I stand in my yard I see at least 6 full size pickups within a block of me. (not to mention the Tahoes, Suburbans, Lexus's, Range Rovers, BMWs) I also see on the news..yep..stories about how every one is buying expensive trucks. Yet you, stuck in a tiny country 9000 miles away, presume you know better.

2. You backtrack and try to say "only fools drive cars that cost more than $20K".
Guess what? Like most things in life, the more you spend, the better the purchase. Those of us buying the cars with MSRP over $40K aren't doing so to show off, we like bargains as much as the next guy, but for different reasons. When I was going to replace my 2010 full size pick last spring, I "considered" the $50K+ uber truck, but the dealer offered me one with a $40K MSRP for $32K, and I figured if I bought that I could afford to replace my 6 year old 150hp boat with a new 150hp boat and have two new toys instead of one. (and I can honestly say, we enjoyed the truck and the boat a whole lot last year)

3. You try to pawn off "All these vendors have a cheap car or two"
So what? It's not evidence cheap cars are the way to go when I post that Mitsubishis sales for the year, including their cars over $20K, are a small fraction of the sales of one full size truck. Similarly, while Toyota does indeed sell cracker boxes like the Yaris here, my other link showed they sell 4X as many $20K+ Camrys.

You're frantically trying to win an argument you lost from the start, and shouldn't have even been trying.

I've got news Greg. In the USA, even the poor often buy used, big SUVs to try to "look" rich. We value wealth as a culture, and chase it. Not to mention gas is $2.00 a gallon here so getting 15mpg doesn't really matter. You guys that pay $5-$6 a gallon have much more reason to care.

[SteelCrysis]

The Yaris isn't a cracker box and Toyota's most successful car of all time - the Corolla is also a budget car and can be had under $20K US.

I can guarantee you that the Yaris, Corolla, Tacoma's bought at the same time you bought your fancy shiny truck will still be in active service long after your big toy is compacted into scrap metal.

Your truck has lots of pretty shiny bits, Toyota's vehicles have lots of reliability, an ability to hold their resale value better than most other cars and stay on the roads longer than most other cars.

---

You Americans enjoy your prosperity while you still can, China is almost ready to overtake you and your president's know it even if they will never admit it in public.

My family's had a Corolla and currently has a base model Camry. You're right, they are damn reliable and long lasting. Camry's also a really quiet car.

[RolloTheGreat]

The Yaris isn't a cracker box and Toyota's most successful car of all time - the Corolla is also a budget car and can be had under $20K US.

I can guarantee you that the Yaris, Corolla, Tacoma's bought at the same time you bought your fancy shiny truck will still be in active service long after your big toy is compacted into scrap metal.

Your truck has lots of pretty shiny bits, Toyota's vehicles have lots of reliability, an ability to hold their resale value better than most other cars and stay on the roads longer than most other cars.

---

You Americans enjoy your prosperity while you still can, China is almost ready to overtake you and your president's know it even if they will never admit it in public.

You're still missing the point Greg.

It doesn't matter how well Yaris's and Corollas sell in the rest of the world for this discussion, because we were talking about the USA.

And in the USA the Camry, which STARTS at $22K is Toyota's most popular model. Toyota sold as many Camrys here last year as they sold Corollas and Yaris's COMBINED.

Why? Because the rules that apply in Australia don't apply here! $2/gallon gas. 2% (or lower) car loan interest. Cars are a status symbol.

As far as reliability and resale go, why would I care? The longest I ever keep a car is 80K miles and as such, I get a big chunk of what I paid on trade in. Probably ANY car is going to last 80K miles pretty easily.

---

Yaris:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=skhaeXwfh3s

Now here's what I drive:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jsC1ww19mPg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=voh-M7qBjBM

You seriously think I'd even consider a car like a Yaris? Those cars don't even exist to me, won't even rent them when I travel.

[SteelCrysis]

As far as reliability and resale go, why would I care? The longest I ever keep a car is 80K miles and as such, I get a big chunk of what I paid on trade in. Probably ANY car is going to last 80K miles pretty easily.

If you think cars can only be good for 80,000 miles when you could be driving a Toyota and saving money for the next Toyota, I feel bad for you.

[RolloTheGreat]

As far as reliability and resale go, why would I care? The longest I ever keep a car is 80K miles and as such, I get a big chunk of what I paid on trade in. Probably ANY car is going to last 80K miles pretty easily.

If you think cars can only be good for 80,000 miles when you could be driving a Toyota and saving money for the next Toyota, I feel bad for you.

Feel good for me. I drive what I want to drive. I trade them in every 3-4 years because I like driving new cars and can afford to.

Why would I want a Toyota? I support American companies whenever possible, my way of giving back. I've purchased 3 American built boats, and 5 American built pickups since 2002.

If everyone followed my example, the middle class in America wouldn't be shrinking. Too much "Buy a cheap Toyota" going on.

[SickBeast]

The problem is that domestic vehicles tend to be horribly unreliable. If they could make cars that could even reasonably compete I would buy one. My 2010 elantra has been bulletproof. Very cheap to run, plus they gave me 0% financing for 7 years.

[SickBeast]

In Canada most people buy economy cars. The Civic has been the most popular for a very long time.

[RolloTheGreat]

If everyone followed my example, the middle class in America wouldn't be shrinking. Too much "Buy a cheap Toyota" going on.

Why Rollo, I thought you had been trying to tell us that nobody in the USA ever bought "crackerbox" Toyota vehicles?!

Toyota does sell american built cars - they are one of the largest and most successful car manufacturing companies in the USA, certainly more successful than a lot of "pure" American car companies have been.

You are a bigoted fool!

Just wait until the chinese start selling their GreatWall pickup trucks into the USA - there will be nothing left of the domestic truck market in very short order.

Yeah sure they will Greg. Toyota and Nissan, who I've actually heard of, can't crack the US pickup market but Great Wall will.

You'll never get it. We don't buy American because we think Toyota and Nissan are bad trucks, we buy American to buy American. Perhaps you don't understand terms like "trade deficit" but I do.

[RolloTheGreat]

You should understand why I support American business then.

[dmcowen674]

Was a thread merge done? That causes the latest activity plugin to make multiples.

[RolloTheGreat]

Our car plants are shutting down here, too small a market.  Will be gone altogether by 2017.  We don't manufacture a lot anymore.  We are blessed with abundant mineral resources, natural gas and coal resources though, which china is hungry for and have many fine foods Asians desire though.  Not to mention our universities and tourism.

We NEED to manufacture because our middle class is shrinking.

There was a time when I was young a lot of what we consumed was made here by Americans. People who didn't have specialized training (most people) could work for a living wage and their kids could choose whether they wanted the same or to get the training. People bought homes and cars, kids grew up with a sense of security that the system worked and they would have a good life no matter what path they chose.

Not so much in the aftermath of trade agreements and outsourcing. There are still opportunities here, but very few for the a middle class life for the HS grad only.

So I will NEVER drive a Toyota, I don't care if they beat GM in every metric and cost $5000 less. The country has been good to me and my family, the very least I can do is support the country's businesses. Don't care if those Toyotas are built here, if people stopped buying them the demand would shift to American firms and the wealth would stay in America. Kids would have the choice of "I can go to work at the car factory and have a middle class life, or be a gang banger" not "I can make sandwiches for those rich f*ckers and starve or be a gang banger and make some real bank".

I can't change the market myself, but I can be an example and a daily advertisement.

Works to some extent.

Just last night I was driving my son to golf team practice and he said, "I did a project for money class today where we had to budget for buying our "dream car". I picked a GMC Sierra as my dream car, these things cost fifty thousand dollars with good options?!" Every time some kid/person tells me how cool the Challenger or my truck is that is a person who might buy one some day and support American industry like me.

[RolloTheGreat]

here was a time when I was young a lot of what we consumed was made here by Americans. People who didn't have specialized training (most people) could work for a living wage and their kids could choose whether they wanted the same or to get the training. People bought homes and cars, kids grew up with a sense of security that the system worked and they would have a good life no matter what path they chose.

Not so much in the aftermath of trade agreements and outsourcing. There are still opportunities here, but very few for the a middle class life for the HS grad only.

You know why it all went pear shaped?  Because your rich "buddies" (don't kid yourself - the real rich don't even know Rollo exists) wanted to screw American workers and unions over and moved all their manufacturing bases off shore.

And you are dumb enough to think they are nice people who should be supported.

And yet I enjoy living somewhere in the top 10% of households in my country, hold two bachelors degrees, and even if I lost my job I'd be better off than most people.

How about you Greg?

Who's the "dumb" one?

[SickBeast]

Rollo loves to brag about how much money he makes and how much stuff he has. If I lived where he does I would probably have just as much if not more. It's all relative. My house cost $400000 for a bungalow. Pretty much anywhere else in North America I would have a mansion for that much. I can guarantee that the quality of life where I live is much higher than where he is, though. I'm sure gstanford has an excellent quality of life as well.

[SickBeast]

I agree. He says that it's normal for Americans to flaunt their wealth yet he is the only person I have seen doing it online.

[RolloTheGreat]

 Flaunting wealth is crass.

I'm just pointing out that for a guy you keep calling "dumb" I seem to have figured out all the things in life usually associated with "smart" people: higher education, on good side of corporate life, have put together a secure and comfortable life for my family, and I have a very nice work/life balance.

If noting stuff like that is crass, what is repeatedly calling people names like a child on a school yard Greg? Genteel?

I think not.

You're kind of like Apoppin, telling people if they don't adopt your ways or think like you they must be "fools" or "dumb".

[SickBeast]

I think that more people should be like Greg and Mark actually, they are both very nice people who contribute a lot to the forum. What you say may be true, Rollo, you may have obtained wealth and a successful life but unfortunately you have not had similar results in terms of your online presence. You continue to attack the most helpful people on here. Not nice.

[RolloTheGreat]

I think that more people should be like Greg and Mark actually, they are both very nice people who contribute a lot to the forum. What you say may be true, Rollo, you may have obtained wealth and a successful life but unfortunately you have not had similar results in terms of your online presence. You continue to attack the most helpful people on here. Not nice.

I haven't obtained what I would consider wealth.

I have obtained what I would consider security and happiness, which are far more valuable.

The two you mention attack me regularly, so "nice and helpful" aren't my online experience with them.

[SickBeast]

It goes both ways, you drive the two of them crazy.

[SteelCrysis]

You're kind of like Apoppin, telling people if they don't adopt your ways or think like you they must be "fools" or "dumb".

Yeah, only nowhere near as aggressive as Trollpoppin. And at least Greg is stable, unlike Trollpoppin who will flip flop if you oppose him on one point long enough.

[ocre]

Rollo,
Toyota builds the most American made cars and have a direct influence on hundreds of thousands of American jobs.  When I read what you said about the challenger, I did start to chuckle.

Toyota directly employs about the same amount of people in the USA as Chrysler.  But that is only scratching the surface.  See, since they make the most American made vehicles, they have factories all over the country building parts for their vehicles. From exhaust to cup holders, many of these plants build parts for no other company.  Toyota is the reason these plants exist.

http://www.anewdayanewme.com/ford-vs-toy...ican-jobs/

David Muir said that Cars.com advises to use the following formula if you want to know how many American jobs are created from the car you may be considering purchasing.

Are the cars assembled here in America?
The Toyota plant says yes. It takes more than 6000 American workers to build that Camry.
The Ford plant says yes. It took 2250 workers to build that Ford Escape.
How much of the car contains American parts?
Toyota Camry – 80%.
The Ford Escape – 65%
Tip! – It is required on new cars to reveal the percentage of foreign parts and American parts in the car. Look for a sticker that gives this information.
How many cars were sold in a given year?
Toyota Camry – 328,000 cars sold last year.
The Ford Escape – 200,000 cars sold last year.
So using that formula, the car that created the most American jobs would be the Toyota Camry.

This is just one example but you should also know that Ford has a larger marketshare yet toyota has an impact on more American jobs. Another thing you should know about toyota, during 2008 and the massive hit automakers took, while GM was cutting jobs and cutting pay, toyota did not lay a single person off. GM flew to Washington in private jets to lobby billions of tax payers money, toyota took not a dime. You should already know toyota didn't ask or take one penny when the economy crashed, but I doubt you knew anything about them not laying off even when they went into the red in the USA markets.

Toyota dug deep and got thru the years of hardships. They forged thru and stuck with it. They did not abandon Americans or their jobs when the times got tough. They didn't threaten or strong arm the government with a too big to fail campaign. Let me ask you, how could toyota do these things and come thru the dark times to now shining bright while GM could not. GM, your beloved US America company that sells way more cars in the US than toyota, why did they not have any money to get thru the hard times? Why did the is auto workers from Detroit suffer so much? GM was making billions over billions, what happened and why could they not take care of their own when times got tough?

I really don't care what you buy. But your,"I smile when I hear kids say Chrysler".......now that is funny.

Especially when toyota is bringing more jobs to the USA while the big 3 are becoming less and less American made everyday. The big 3 are getting more and more parts from other countries. They are not keeping the money in the USA. Proof is right in front of you. They threaten to shut down instead of loosing a dime, go to congress and get crazy huge bail outs. Yeah, that American money they get doesn't do as much good as you seem to think

[RolloTheGreat]

I understand that Toyota builds cars here, and that "The Big Three" build cars elsewhere.

RAM is now owned by Fiat, and Italian company.

Nonetheless, I purchase Big Three vehicles because:
A. They still employ a lot of Americans
B. The profits stay in the USA
C. The money pays for the retirement benefits of US auto workers
D. To a much lesser extent, buying a foreign pick up truck "just isn't done"

My last 5 GM pick ups were built in Fort Wayne, Indiana and I am helping my Midwestern neighbors have a job.

---

Also, when we bought the Challenger in 2013, Chrysler was primarily owned by Cerberus Capital (a New York based investment group) and VEBA (the United Auto Workers retirement trust).

So they were an American firm at the time.

[RolloTheGreat]

LOL!  What did I say would happen in my last post?

A. Toyota employs more

I did not say they did not. I said US automakers employ a lot of Americans. (they do)

B. No they don't as Ocre explained.  He works in the industry, you don't.

No offense to Ocre, and no disagreement with what he said, but what YOU just said is ridiculous. You think the guy stocking shelves at WalMart necessarily knows more about retail business than other people?
Ocre didn't prove profits from Big Three auto sales don't stay in the USA. He illustrated that Japanese automakers and their supply chain are also a big part of our economy. There's a difference for those of us who can think.

C. I doubt it.

Doubt it all you like, but again, it's pretty well known to those of us who live here a big chunk of Big Three car prices is retirement benefits to American workers.

http://www.roadandtrack.com/car-culture/...nt-prices/

Consequently, on top of any discount, each GM car or truck made this year will carry about $1,900 in pension and retiree health care costs, the Post said, citing Stephen Girsky, an industry analyst for Morgan Stanley.

D. LOL!

Laugh all you like, but again, here in the USA, men just don't buy foreign pick up trucks to date. (at least not in any significant numbers)

http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/cars...o/1897987/

This article pretty much puts the smack down on your wildly inaccurate ranting. Not only does is show how very small Toyota and Nissan's piece of the truck market is, it also shows that I was right about the most popular vehicles in America being over $30K, not your $20K BS:

Transaction prices:

$20,000-$29,999 . . . 10.3%
$30,000-$39,999 . . . 56.4%
$40,000-$49,999 . . . 24.6%
$50,000-$59,999 . . . 8.8%

AND it proves my saying your "stack'em high sell'em cheap" doesn't apply in the USA with this tidbit of info:

For the domestics, it's about a lot more than pride. Ford F-Series, the nation's best-selling vehicle for decades, accounts for two-thirds of Ford Motor's U.S. profit, estimates Adam Jonas, analyst for Morgan Stanley.

Ford entire success is built on their full size trucks, not Yaris-esque toy cars like the Fiesta.

I'll tell you another cultural difference: In the USA you won't see many successful men driving a subcompact car. Again, it just isn't done. We're not Europe, we're not Asia, we're not Australia. In the USA, men with two dimes to rub together drive a truck/sports car/SUV, or grudgingly drive a full size sedan or minivan because they have to haul kids.

[ocre]

I am not saying you should want or buy a Toyota truck. I am not to fond of them myself.

Just saying, if you buy ta toyota truck, not only is it assembled here but it is assembled with parts that are also made in the USA. That is the part i want you to see. The big three, sure they employ people and assemble here but a cars are made up of hundreds of thousands of components. Assembly is where all these parts come together. You are missing the significant bulk of the picture. Something US automakers would never ever tell you.

See, not too long ago, things were very different. Every car built here was built here, not just assembled. Most every part, every component, was made in the USA. Through the years, they have quietly been shipping these jobs over seas. It is easy when they are "expanding" into new markets in other parts of the world. Today, ford assembles cars here, they werent quite built here. Maybe 50% but it varies per model. For GM, there are models that are worse.

They arent made in the US, they are assembled in the US.

Also, I have already contested your "keeping the money in the US" claim once.
See, all these parts that used to be made here, they are made in places where labor is much cheaper now. Guess where how that came to be? The money went, it didnt stay here.

Finally, I will bring up the bail out once again. If the money "stayed in the US", what happened? Why did they cut so many peoples jobs and why did they need a bailout? They made billions and billions but when times got tough, they strong armed the government for bailout money. They wasnt willing to spend a dime when it came down to it. And many of their issues where self induced, their finance departments giving loans to anyone who walked in.

You cannot tell me that out of the billions GM made, they couldnt afford to take care of their own when times got tough. Are you really proud of that?

[RolloTheGreat]

I get the American made parts aspect of your position Ocre and don't disagree import manufacturers provide a lot of jobs here.

There are other sides to it though.

A couple thousand of every Big Three car purchased helps fund UAW retiree benefits.

While you are correct GM uses a lot of parts from Mexico, the companies who own those factories in Mexico are based in Detroit and also employ a lot of Americans and bring a lot of money into the USA.

[SteelCrysis]

You honestly think they employ Americans in Mexico?

[RolloTheGreat]

You honestly think they employ Americans in Mexico?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delphi_Automotive

of whom around 5,000 are in the United States.

Delphi is a spinoff of GM, still employs 5000 people. While their HQ is in England now for tax purposes, they're still based in Detroit.

So while it is true that 30+ percent of the parts in the Sierra I drive (not the drive train) were built in foreign countries, one owner of the company that builds the parts is GM.

(so the money isn't all "leaving the country", it's helping an American Company profit)

[ocre]

Grstan,

you cant be serious. Lazy workers? You qare taking it way too far.

in manufacturing, people just do what they are trained. Reliability has been great for Chevy and ford trucks

Also, the Tacoma is not a truck i even like. I like ford, Chevy, and Chrysler trucks so much better/

I drive a Lincoln SUV by the way

Rollo,
I am extremely disappointed in GM for demanding money when times got tough. I guess that is my beef with the situation. I trully think they should have been able to pull thru without demanding money. They should have pulled from their own reserves but they would rather shut down and throw all their employees under the bus than sacrifice a dime out of pocket, when times got tough that is.

toyota lost money and learned to be stronger. They knew they would loose but kept forging forward with faith that things would get better. They done so much more for the common good. It is really something i respect so much. But even still, i would much rather have a ford truck than a toyota. Just cause I think they have better style in trucks. It is comes down to looks and style to me.

btw, i have a Lincoln SUV. I bought preowned with cash. 100% own it.

[ocre]

I dont think toyota reliability has much at all to do with their employees at manufacturing plants.

That is a crazy notion.

It is the engineering.

And i also dont see where lazy fits in the discussion at all. I believe strongly that some car manufactures engineered their cars to last longer but this was their strategy, their plan of attack in the global markets. US automakers were not lazy, they just had a different plan. You know, sales.

It doesnt matter too much today though as the situation has changed drastically. All of the automakers have stepped up and reliability is a priority. That is not saying that every car will last forever. But most cars are very reliable now. Chevy trucks, for example, I have seen many fly past 200k and still run like a top. My neighbor has 315k on his truck and you would never know it unless you looked. It runs and sounds great