Why you don't set the minimum wage to $70K

[BoFox]

The problem with the extreme poverty here is the people in it find it easier to collect free money than do the work the illegal immigrants very much desire. (because they can't collect free money)

We could solve the welfare problem and the illegal immigrant problem if we:

A. Shifted the risk/penalty from immigrants to employers
B. Shifted welfare benefits to be collected through business owners as subsidy for work


Of course, if the starving people of Mexico and Central America had to stay there and starve, it might de-stabilize the region which would have other issues.

I understand Point B, but am not sure I understand exactly how you would achieve Point A?  And how exactly would that make things better?

Those fed with a silver spoon will never understand what it means to be like, coming from a rural town that provided piss-poor education to begin with.  Oops, she didn't even have birth control education or was even able to afford a condom, so she had 3 kids before she could ever dream of completing a full bachelors degree - and had to work 2 full time jobs ever since just to afford feeding her kids peanut butter and crackers.  It's not a rare situation, if there are 2.5 million homeless children in the USA as of 2013 (linked in one of my posts above), on a sharp 8% increase from year to year.  The well-off think they know everything when actually, they have never stepped foot in a trailer park just once in their lives.

Regarding the de-stabilization of the region - those able to afford to move out of the nation (or at least with the courage) should be using the resources or the courage to build up their own nations, rather than escaping to America.  "The Land of Opportunity" illusion has spread across the world, as to the reason the US became the most powerful economy after WW2, so pretty much every single immigrant is believing in this old adage, that it would apply to themselves as well.  How about they use their own energy to organize a rights movement in their own nation, or to build upwards like East Germany did when joining West Germany?!?  Just a bit unification and cooperation is all that is needed. 

Yet, (also regarding Point B), we do need some independence to a degree.  If it were truly a world of "Borgs", is it then Communism/Socialism beneath all of this facade?  Lenoardo da Vinci would've never had the opportunity to spark the Renaissance - Galileo not ever perfecting his telescope, nor Newton discovering the law of gravitation and Calculus, etc..   and Apoppin would've never become quite the legendary reviewer, hehe.  Europe pretty much owes its long-standing prosperity to the fact that some people were allowed to dedicate themselves to matters beyond the scope of the Borg officer/employer.  While I digress now, by concurring that you, Rollo, are correct that far too many abuse welfare and food stamp benefits while not contributing in any meaningful way back to the economy or to a more far-reaching prosperity of the civilization as whole, I hope we understand each other that stressing the opposing points in debate do not mean absolution in any way.

[RolloTheGreat]

Point A ends illegal immigration because they come here for jobs and would not if no one would hire them.

If we make it more risky to hire them than the benefit of the cheap labor, the situation ends.

However; I don't think anyone wants to end it. I think the politicians just use the immigrants as scapegoats and a red herring to divert attention from the real issues.

[BoFox]

Rollo, trust me - you do not want Mexicans flooding Madison, Wisconsin and transforming it into a Spanish-speaking town. 5 of these adults would happily share a bedroom with each other, a small 6-bedroom house could even hold 30 of them, as is seen in some parts where the Hispanic community is booming. It's insane.

Then your son, faced with a massive influx of no-lifer Indians and Chinese/Taiwanese/Korean college graduates with perfect 4.00 GPA, would never get a job unless he learned what it was like to live with roaches crawling under the sheets, rather than a silver spoon filled with some honey to make all of his problems go away. That is, he'd need to work 100 hours a week towards attaining a higher GPA than his classmates (usually, generally, if more students make A's, then the professors decide to make it harder for them to make A's rather than B's). The same for you - if you just graduated with these 2 degrees (Psychology and Business?) today, rather than 20 years ago or so, you might not have had the same luck as you did in the past... maybe you think you would still have done the same thing by becoming a software team leader, but then how about 20 years later in the future, after Madison becomes "Mexison" along with a good mix of ruthless workaholics from the desperate 1.3 billion Indians overseas all still dreaming to attain heaven in the Golden Land of Opporunity?

[RolloTheGreat]

I didn't say I want to end immigration laws, I said I think we more effectively enforce them by doing it on the employer vs employee side.

Businesses are already subject to a lot of government rules, scrutiny and inspections. A little easier to find them at their job than in their neighborhoods, and I don't think most business owners would even risk it if they knew the penalties fell on them rather than the illegals.

The illegals could still be deported, the key is making the hiring of illegals not worth it. Control the jobs and you control the problem.

[RolloTheGreat]

You would only create a black employment market where illegals aren't officially on the books and they get paid cash rather than with traceable cheques, deposits etc.

We have that already.

I'm saying that is easier to police, not like the farm/restaurant/factory is going anywhere or can be hidden.

If you tell most American businessmen "If you can't produce a photocopy of an ID and green card or work permit for everyone working here, we're going to shut you down or incarcerate you", and then start doing it, most won't break the law just to get a little richer.

Pretty tough to tell the wife and kids you're going to prison because you wanted to save $5/hour on labor costs.

[ocre]

Point A ends illegal immigration because they come here for jobs and would not if no one would hire them.

If we make it more risky to hire them than the benefit of the cheap labor, the situation ends.

However; I don't think anyone wants to end it. I think the politicians just use the immigrants as scapegoats and a red herring to divert attention from the real issues.

This is a great idea


I think people just want to argue with you

[RolloTheGreat]

How about a link to all the other companies that started doing this?

(won't hold my breath on that one)

I guess I was right when I said 4 years ago this would never be a trend.

[RolloTheGreat]

I agree with paying people a decent minimum wage but $70K/year is just absurd.  I think $15/hour is a good figure and a fair wage for basic jobs with low requirements.  You can at least eek out a basic living in most places on that much.  If everyone made $70K it would drive up the price of everything to the point that $70K/year would not be enough to get by on for most people.

Actually what I think would be great is if you made the minimum wage $15/hour plus allow people to earn $20-30K tax free each year.

No way, you think?!

Of course it would because a. the money has to come from somewhere and higher costs of good would be where b. even vendors paying wages nowhere near the $70K get that there is more money flowing and jack up their prices

The dumbasses who think "The jig is up! Those rich guys have to pay out of their deep pockets and now we will all prosper!" need to Google "cost push" and "demand pull" inflation.

It's also way past crazy thinking that people who have been making $70K to do skilled work won't expect to make a lot more than that if the cafeteria workers start making that to hand out jello.

SickBeast and I got it 4 years ago, and I still get it now.

[RolloTheGreat]

LOL, I got bored reading the infographic and didn't get that far.

The term "anecdotal evidence" comes to mind.

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictiona...20evidence

A couple stories about other people doing this do not a labor trend make. And it's been four years!!